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Was the ending a hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory


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#53801
EpyonX3

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llbountyhunter wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

 Sorry people for my barely legible posts... Not able to use my computer... Hard drive failed.  :(


That sucks. Regular drive or Solid State?


Regular.


Well at least, with some money if it's really important, you can recover. Hope you didn't lose anything important.

#53802
DJBare

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EpyonX3 wrote...

Honestly, yes. Moving the Citadel to earth to begin with was the stupidest move ever. Taking the Citadel, which holds the key to the super weapon we're building, through the omega relay, which only reapers and 1 alliance ship can go through would have been a much smarter solution.

Taking it to earth where most oranic ships are lkely to follow and try to take it back, while turning on a beam with direct access to the citadel is the stupidest move ever. All for Shepard? Why, the cycle has reached its end. The reapers are harvesting. There's not need for anyone to be indoctrinated at this point.

Moving the citadel to earth is the reaper plan, it's to lure the crucible to earth, everyone thinks the crucible is a weapon to use against the reapers, not many actually consider the crucible to be a reaper device and a trap.

#53803
HellishFiend

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EpyonX3 wrote...



the point is that you can see the details of the prerendered cable in the regular game assets. The individual cable strands wound inside of the metallic braces.


I'm not following you. Are you saying we have screenshots of what pre-rendered rebar and cable look like? If we have a screenshot of pre-rendered "reaper cable" that looks exactly like what we see in the breath scene, why hasnt it been posted and used to finally put this debate to rest?

#53804
Cyberfrog81

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byne wrote...

Dude, even I could see the problems with leaving a path straight into the center of my stronghold out in the middle of nowhere, guarded only by one destroyer.

And there's the Reaper that flies off, leaving the only remaining defenders: The Three Husketeers and a Marauder with weak shields.

One of the first of many WTF moments.

Modifié par Cyberfrog81, 09 mai 2012 - 10:15 .


#53805
HellishFiend

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MegumiAzusa wrote...

As opposed to Miranda the breath scene consists solely of ingame assets, as can be seen by the rubble.


That's besides the point. The fact of the matter is we dont have enough evidence to conclusively say either way whether it is cabling or rebar. 

#53806
llbountyhunter

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EpyonX3 wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

 Sorry people for my barely legible posts... Not able to use my computer... Hard drive failed.  :(


That sucks. Regular drive or Solid State?


Regular.


Well at least, with some money if it's really important, you can recover. Hope you didn't lose anything important.


Only my priceless mass effect saves..... Oh but it's alright. I'm betting a newer lager one to replace it. And now I have another reason to replay the series.

#53807
byne

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Cyberfrog81 wrote...

byne wrote...

Dude, even I could see the problems with leaving a path straight into the center of my stronghold out in the middle of nowhere, guarded only by one destroyer.

And there the Reaper that flies off, leaving the only remaining defenders: The Three Husketeers and a Marauder with weak shields.

One of the first of many WTF moments.


And it isnt just any Reaper that flies off, its freakin Harbinger. Yknow, the Reaper who is obsessed with Shepard to basically stalker-ish levels.

The entire second game he orders the collectors to preserve Shepard if possible, so they can deliver the body to him, then at the end, he finally has Shepard where he wants her, and just flies off?

I dont think so.

#53808
balance5050

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[quote]llbountyhunter wrote...

[quote]EpyonX3 wrote...

[/quote]

Beyond my comprehension just like their motives? We can assume that they never had their invasion delayed by three years and had a super weapon built that uses their own trap against them.

Any smart being would adapt to the situation or plan ahead for those possibilities.

[/quote]

How do you know they weren't doing just that?

[/quote]

Pretty much this. It's stands to good reason that the Citadel could be like this swiss army knife style trap. Considering that all they really want is to stay the alpha predetor, we COULD assume that they MAY have at least one back up plan.

All they ever told us was that it's hopeless to resist, now it's all "you had hope all along troloolollo!"

#53809
EpyonX3

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llbountyhunter wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

 Sorry people for my barely legible posts... Not able to use my computer... Hard drive failed.  :(


That sucks. Regular drive or Solid State?


Regular.


Well at least, with some money if it's really important, you can recover. Hope you didn't lose anything important.


Only my priceless mass effect saves..... Oh but it's alright. I'm betting a newer lager one to replace it. And now I have another reason to replay the series.


Or edit some saves to save time ;)

#53810
MaximizedAction

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MegumiAzusa wrote...

As opposed to Miranda the breath scene consists solely of ingame assets, as can be seen by the rubble.


The truth, no matter how you read it.

#53811
EpyonX3

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HellishFiend wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...



the point is that you can see the details of the prerendered cable in the regular game assets. The individual cable strands wound inside of the metallic braces.


I'm not following you. Are you saying we have screenshots of what pre-rendered rebar and cable look like? If we have a screenshot of pre-rendered "reaper cable" that looks exactly like what we see in the breath scene, why hasnt it been posted and used to finally put this debate to rest?


No. I'm saying prerendered cable looks exactly like in game cable, just slightly more defined.

#53812
HellishFiend

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EpyonX3 wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...



the point is that you can see the details of the prerendered cable in the regular game assets. The individual cable strands wound inside of the metallic braces.


I'm not following you. Are you saying we have screenshots of what pre-rendered rebar and cable look like? If we have a screenshot of pre-rendered "reaper cable" that looks exactly like what we see in the breath scene, why hasnt it been posted and used to finally put this debate to rest?


No. I'm saying prerendered cable looks exactly like in game cable, just slightly more defined.


Assuming thats true, what about the fact that the same "cable" is used in places where it is not reaper tech? 

#53813
EpyonX3

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llbountyhunter wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

How do the reapers know the alliance couldn't mass replicate the IFF likecerberus? It's smarter not to take the chance.

Earth was hit first. You had to Finnish the mars mission the see the beginning of the reaper attack on paloven.
 It's also where the majority of the reapers were located.


They didn't even know that EDI was an A.I. How could they have possibly known the ship contained an IFF and then mass produce it and outfit every ship with it. On top of that, while having a government that doesn't believe in the reaper threat to begin with.

No earth was not hit first. like someone mentioned before, the Batarians were hit first. By the time you get to Palaven, the reapers have it occupied already. Reaper scouts were already on Tuchanka. They attacked at once.


Well their collector base was destroyed..... Once the defence was breached once logically it could be done again.. Not very smart to put your eggs in that basket.

Yeah sure, they attacked all at once. 


The collector ship and a few drones where their only line of defense. Put a couple of reaper capital ships and three destroyers on both ends of the relay and see how easy it will be to breach.

Also, how would they have known it even went to the omega relay? There's no one there but Cerberus.



They did just that.... But on earth.


Didnt cereus alert the reapers? I'm pretty sure the prothean VI would've told them


Not exaclty. Earth is very accessible. The omega relay is not. The omega relay as we know it can only be accessed by the normandy. Cerberus may have the tech as well but they would actually be in your way more than assist you.

Even if you brought the ships of every race to the omega relay, only the normand could get through it, where it would have to face two or three reaper capital ships, destroyers, cerberus and debris. joker is good but not that good.

#53814
Uncle Jo

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HellishFiend wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...



the point is that you can see the details of the prerendered cable in the regular game assets. The individual cable strands wound inside of the metallic braces.


I'm not following you. Are you saying we have screenshots of what pre-rendered rebar and cable look like? If we have a screenshot of pre-rendered "reaper cable" that looks exactly like what we see in the breath scene, why hasnt it been posted and used to finally put this debate to rest?


I'm siding with Epyon on this one. When we look at the shape, the texture, the color and the thickness, we can reasonably suppose that they're not rebars, even without prerendered ones. What they're doing there is another question...

Modifié par Uncle Jo, 09 mai 2012 - 10:20 .


#53815
EpyonX3

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HellishFiend wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...



the point is that you can see the details of the prerendered cable in the regular game assets. The individual cable strands wound inside of the metallic braces.


I'm not following you. Are you saying we have screenshots of what pre-rendered rebar and cable look like? If we have a screenshot of pre-rendered "reaper cable" that looks exactly like what we see in the breath scene, why hasnt it been posted and used to finally put this debate to rest?


No. I'm saying prerendered cable looks exactly like in game cable, just slightly more defined.


Assuming thats true, what about the fact that the same "cable" is used in places where it is not reaper tech? 


If you look at the asset names like I have, you'd notice that they are not named the same. Their names are Cable, reaper cable and geth cable. They're not all the same but they are very close in appearance.

#53816
HellishFiend

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EpyonX3 wrote...

If you look at the asset names like I have, you'd notice that they are not named the same. Their names are Cable, reaper cable and geth cable. They're not all the same but they are very close in appearance.




And you're absolutely certain that the cables we see in the breath scene are the "reaper cable" asset? If so, I suppose I'll have to take your word for it. 

Modifié par HellishFiend, 09 mai 2012 - 10:21 .


#53817
EpyonX3

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Today has been fun! Got some concrete (seriously this time no pun intended) evidence of the possibility that it Shep's on earth. It's fun pondering new possibilities.

#53818
HellishFiend

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byne wrote...

paxxton wrote...

pirate1802 wrote...


My canon Shep couldn't save Tali from being exiled in ME2, so peace was not an option. I had to choose between Tali and Legion; I honestly thought the quarians wont be so foolish. Chose to side with Legion, and my reaction, too was pretty much like that

No.....
Nooo......
Omg Tali !!!! :'((((


In my playthrough Tali was an admiral and still she jumped off the cliff. :(


Yeah, but if she isnt an admiral, peace is impossible. At least you were closer to peace than he was.

Posted Image

Edit: Hmm, looking at that chart, it seems peace is actually possible if she isnt an admiral. I should test that sometime.


There should be a notation somewhere on that chart that if either Legion or Tali are dead, peace is not possible regardless of your points. Granted it is sort of common sense, but still noteworthy. 

#53819
EpyonX3

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HellishFiend wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

If you look at the asset names like I have, you'd notice that they are not named the same. Their names are Cable, reaper cable and geth cable. They're not all the same but they are very close in appearance.




And you're absolutely certain that the cables we see in the breath scene are the "reaper cable" asset? If so, I suppose I'll have to take your word for it. 


We can't say for sure because it was prerendered. I can't take the scene apart and reveal their asset names. However, just by going with their appearance, it can be concluded that those are at the very least cables and not rebar.

#53820
MaximizedAction

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HellishFiend wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...



the point is that you can see the details of the prerendered cable in the regular game assets. The individual cable strands wound inside of the metallic braces.


I'm not following you. Are you saying we have screenshots of what pre-rendered rebar and cable look like? If we have a screenshot of pre-rendered "reaper cable" that looks exactly like what we see in the breath scene, why hasnt it been posted and used to finally put this debate to rest?


No. I'm saying prerendered cable looks exactly like in game cable, just slightly more defined.


Assuming thats true, what about the fact that the same "cable" is used in places where it is not reaper tech? 


Why do the Reapers have to bring along a Binford toolbox from dark space, if they can use the stuff, that the galaxy races can already provide: cables.
The Reapers just scramble together stuff from reaped worlds, like cables. So you see Reaper technology that uses human cables to transport electric currents. That's it.

That's the point about any successfully evolved species: they are fit/can adjust to their surrounding. And so do the Reapers.

#53821
spotlessvoid

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Kroen135 wrote...

There was a mention a few pages ago about Object RHO and how most seem to coin it as the first canon (atleast the most like likely successful attempt at it) indoctrination of Shepard. I would like to point out that during the gauntlet while Object Rho is charging up. It will say many things. It sounds just like Harbinger but if you run with subtitles clearly states that it is Object Rho saying it. (This doesn't mean it's Harbinger or it isn't. Although I personally believe it is but as I have no canon/in game proof; I will just say it's Object Rho.

Most of his things are ego maniacal crap. One thing does catch my attention and it's worth pointing out on this forum.

Object Rho: "Struggle if you wish Shepard, your mind will be mine."

Hmm, that sounds awfully close to indoctrination yes? Thoughts?
(sorry if it's been said before just now coming back since page 1800 lol)


Anyone who hasn't played Arrival is irrelevant. Either they aren't hardcore ME fans, or they don't have internet access like normal human beings

#53822
EpyonX3

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spotlessvoid wrote...

Kroen135 wrote...

There was a mention a few pages ago about Object RHO and how most seem to coin it as the first canon (atleast the most like likely successful attempt at it) indoctrination of Shepard. I would like to point out that during the gauntlet while Object Rho is charging up. It will say many things. It sounds just like Harbinger but if you run with subtitles clearly states that it is Object Rho saying it. (This doesn't mean it's Harbinger or it isn't. Although I personally believe it is but as I have no canon/in game proof; I will just say it's Object Rho.

Most of his things are ego maniacal crap. One thing does catch my attention and it's worth pointing out on this forum.

Object Rho: "Struggle if you wish Shepard, your mind will be mine."

Hmm, that sounds awfully close to indoctrination yes? Thoughts?
(sorry if it's been said before just now coming back since page 1800 lol)


Anyone who hasn't played Arrival is irrelevant. Either they aren't hardcore ME fans, or they don't have internet access like normal human beings


Hmm thanks for quoting that. I never play with subtitles on mostly because I read them instead of watching what's going on regardless of whether I understand or not.

So is it possible that object Rho is more than a beacon but an actual reaper it was talking to you? Could this reaper actually be to weak to indictrinate the likes of shepard, explaining why the staff were so surprised to see him wake up and kill them all?

This would also put a bit of a dent in the theory though.

#53823
EpyonX3

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Could you imaging an ending where you go through the Omega relay to recapture the citadel, go 1v1 vs Harbinger, killing him in space battle by getting in your suit and landing on his eye to plant a thannix bomb.

Getting the citadel back, and then play with the citadel/crucible BFG throughout the galaxy?

What the hell was bioware thinking??

#53824
llbountyhunter

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EpyonX3 wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

How do the reapers know the alliance couldn't mass replicate the IFF likecerberus? It's smarter not to take the chance.

Earth was hit first. You had to Finnish the mars mission the see the beginning of the reaper attack on paloven.
 It's also where the majority of the reapers were located.


They didn't even know that EDI was an A.I. How could they have possibly known the ship contained an IFF and then mass produce it and outfit every ship with it. On top of that, while having a government that doesn't believe in the reaper threat to begin with.

No earth was not hit first. like someone mentioned before, the Batarians were hit first. By the time you get to Palaven, the reapers have it occupied already. Reaper scouts were already on Tuchanka. They attacked at once.


Well their collector base was destroyed..... Once the defence was breached once logically it could be done again.. Not very smart to put your eggs in that basket.

Yeah sure, they attacked all at once. 


The collector ship and a few drones where their only line of defense. Put a couple of reaper capital ships and three destroyers on both ends of the relay and see how easy it will be to breach.

Also, how would they have known it even went to the omega relay? There's no one there but Cerberus.



They did just that.... But on earth.


Didnt cereus alert the reapers? I'm pretty sure the prothean VI would've told them


Not exaclty. Earth is very accessible. The omega relay is not. The omega relay as we know it can only be accessed by the normandy. Cerberus may have the tech as well but they would actually be in your way more than assist you.

Even if you brought the ships of every race to the omega relay, only the normand could get through it, where it would have to face two or three reaper capital ships, destroyers, cerberus and debris. joker is good but not that good.




Didnt byne post something on how even the salarians had the reaper IFF tech on their ships? So it was clearly accessible. I

Modifié par llbountyhunter, 09 mai 2012 - 10:32 .


#53825
balance5050

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EpyonX3 wrote...

We can't say for sure because it was prerendered. I can't take the scene apart and reveal their asset names. However, just by going with their appearance, it can be concluded that those are at the very least cables and not rebar.


I can live with this, they put in aspects of both to make it pretty much the most confusing and inconclusive thing in the entire game.

All we know is Shep is alive, and it could mean nothing, it could mean everything.