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Was the ending a hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory


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#5401
Rawgrim

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kyrieee wrote...

raeting wrote...

Hehe, everyone is right! The ending is open to interpretation.


To me that means they will never confirm it
They will never continue the story past Shepard waking up


They did say we should take care of our savefile + that they have more stuff planned for Mass Effect.

#5402
Rifneno

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PlumPaul82393 wrote...

So you'd applaud them for making you pay $10 more at least for an ending you'd like better? Sounds like you guys are in the bargaining stage.


Everytime someone on the Internet uses dimestore pscyhology on people they've never met, the Reapers spare a vorcha.  Think of the vorcha people!

#5403
UKHaz

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 Thank you OP for and everyone else for this topic! Definately think we've cracked it with the indoctrination theory.

Just to add a little something, in the final dream sequence, you eventually see Shepard with the Kid go up in flames. Could this be a hint from BW that if you side with / agree with the child/catalyst Shepard joins the child, i.e. dies and fails; thus the reapers have successfully indocrinated him.

#5404
Auresta

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Dessalines wrote...

The Catalyst is also confrontation to some Sheps and nice to others.I know the dialogue I got was different from what I am seeing on these you tube videos.


Elaborate? I think the only difference is that he has more dialogue.

Modifié par Auresta, 12 mars 2012 - 11:57 .


#5405
GBGriffin

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ReclaimedHavoc wrote...

Not that I'm trying to be negative or anything, but do you guys think any of our theories here were running through the writers minds as the ending was wrote? :P

If they weren't at the time, I'd hope that they'd at least consider them now :P

#5406
blooregard

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Turtlicious wrote...

Turtlicious wrote...

ok so I'm going to compile the two Pre Earth reclamation theories, and the two Ramp Theories.

theory 1 is that indoctrination is at the start of ME3 and that during the whole game every dream is more and more indoctrination. Also, there is an indoctrination device on the normandy, (supported by Vega mentioning a Hum all throughout the game) This is supported by the re-apperance of the RGC all througout the game. People disagree because people believe Indoctrination, (from now on condensed to ID) is not as subtle as that, and would not only affect dreams.

Theory 2 is that it happens on the Normandy, that the child is real in the beginning, but once on the Normandy, you start to get indoctrinated, which is supported by Vega hearing the Hum. The same reasons as above but SLIGHTLY more credible due to the poster of the missing earth child. People disagree with Theory 2 for the same reasons as theory 1.

Theory A is what I like to call the "Ilos Run" theory, that you're ID is full blown on the shuttle as soon as you leave the shuttle. This theory concludes that the shuttle was blown up at some point, that you were buried beneath rubble, and harbinger is trying to indoctrinate you to retrieve the body. It is supported by the dreamy quality of the run itself, and the lack of squadmates following you, soon as the ID gets stronger, you go full on dream mode. This is to compensate for the "Dream Trees" at the very beginning of the run

Theory B is that your full blown indoctrination is not until you get pwnt by the laser. and that at that point you are passed out at the crucible, and Harbinger is doing what he has always wanted, (ID of Shep) This is supported due to the realistic look of the run down the hill.

(Mix and match 1 and 2 with A and B)

Anything I forget?


Just requoting for visibility, this thread moves VERY fast. :o




hmm the getting shot down bit would make some sense if there were visible shuttle pieces I mean if you don't pass out until the beam then why wasn't the background of the breath cutscene lit up more from beam up?

#5407
Turtlicious

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Turtlicious wrote...

ok so I'm going to compile the two Pre Earth reclamation theories, and the two Ramp Theories.

theory 1 is that indoctrination is at the start of ME3 and that during the whole game every dream is more and more indoctrination. Also, there is an indoctrination device on the normandy, (supported by Vega mentioning a Hum all throughout the game) This is supported by the re-apperance of the RGC all througout the game. People disagree because people believe Indoctrination, (from now on condensed to ID) is not as subtle as that, and would not only affect dreams.

Theory 2 is that it happens on the Normandy, that the child is real in the beginning, but once on the Normandy, you start to get indoctrinated, which is supported by Vega hearing the Hum. The same reasons as above but SLIGHTLY more credible due to the poster of the missing earth child. People disagree with Theory 2 for the same reasons as theory 1.

Theory A is what I like to call the "Ilos Run" theory, that you're ID is full blown on the shuttle as soon as you leave the shuttle. This theory concludes that the shuttle was blown up at some point, that you were buried beneath rubble, and harbinger is trying to indoctrinate you to retrieve the body. It is supported by the dreamy quality of the run itself, and the lack of squadmates following you, soon as the ID gets stronger, you go full on dream mode. This is to compensate for the "Dream Trees" at the very beginning of the run

Theory B is that your full blown indoctrination is not until you get pwnt by the laser. and that at that point you are passed out at the crucible, and Harbinger is doing what he has always wanted, (ID of Shep) This is supported due to the realistic look of the run down the hill.

(Mix and match 1 and 2 with A and B)

Anything I forget?


Third time, this  is the last chance for anyone to tell me I missed something.

#5408
Miss Vader

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Im just curious about if there is some sort of Reaper tech on board Normandy that is indoctrinating Shep-- shouldn't the other characters become indoctrinated as well/

#5409
balance5050

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For those of you that accept the endings, have fun with that. I for one will never lose hope and never stop fighting.... I will not be indoctrinated.

I don't know if I already posted this but
http://i.imgur.com/74Nka.jpg

"hallucinations of "ghostly" presences" should be a pretty big hint.

#5410
Katsaurs

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StripedStocking wrote...

Fattness132 wrote...

As a paragon shep i actually chose destroy my first time. Knowing that it meant that the geth and EDI were going to be destroyed, i made the choice for the greater good of destroying the reapers and freeing the rest of the galaxy.

Seeing how the whole conversation with TiM before speaking with the kid was about how he was being controlled by the reapers, and could not control them himself, i saw this as being the worst possible choice.

Synthesis for me was also a choice my shep just couldnt make - destroying what made the galaxy what it was - the differences between the species. Synthesis makes everyone into basically the same thing, destroying their individuality.

I really hope this theory is true, so i can say i resisted the indoctrination on my first try lol.


Exact same thing happened in my first playthrough, and I really hope this indoctrination theory proves to be true, that'd be mindblowing :D


Haha this, I used the exact same reasoning to choose it too :wizard:

#5411
Way of Thunder

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I think the ending is as it the best explaination really because the endings don't make much sense anyways also some people believe that the endings go like this:

option 1 control = shepard doesn't really control the reapers but he/she is actually being indoctrinated by them

option 2  Synthesis= shepard just dying and believe that he/she has do enough and it's to future generations to continue the fight

option 3 destroy = shepard breaking free of indoctination this can be seen as afterwards you see shepard waking up (he/she breathe) in the rubble on earth after being shot by harbinger

this could that mean that in the end nothing actually hapen after the run for the conduit

what is your opinion on this theory?

#5412
Malanek

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Miss Vader wrote...

Im just curious about if there is some sort of Reaper tech on board Normandy that is indoctrinating Shep-- shouldn't the other characters become indoctrinated as well/

You can explain this easily by Sheps implants.

#5413
DarkFire77777

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Guys, I'm on my second playthrough, and I noticed an email that comes through named "ANN Alert: New Article on "Indoctrination"" Among other things, one paragraph talks about the indoctrinated Asari and says the following:

Prior to her death, investigators said Thanoptis spoke of voices in her head, which they believed to be indicative of her indoctrination. The voices foretold the ascension of the asari -- and told Thanoptis that anyone fighting the Reapers "needed to die".

Now, I could be wrong, but didn't the god-child say that in the synthesis ending that all organics would "ascend" to the height of evolution??

Just a thought. ; )

#5414
CaptnObvious

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kyrieee wrote...

raeting wrote...

Hehe, everyone is right! The ending is open to interpretation.


To me that means they will never confirm it
They will never continue the story past Shepard waking up


Great. Now ill stick to : Shep is dead, like every other high species. 
That dumb**** child at the end is just added by Grandpa Stargazer for his grandson (to have a child-know-it-all help the big invincible hero in the end). Beside i think Stargazers are just a new specie.
Thanks Bioware, i GUESS that makes everyone happy?

#5415
PrivateFrost

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Miss Vader wrote...

Im just curious about if there is some sort of Reaper tech on board Normandy that is indoctrinating Shep-- shouldn't the other characters become indoctrinated as well/


Vega says he's hearing some strange sounds on the Normandy, but he's not indoctrinated. Maybe it's something in the ship that Shep uses more than the rest of the crew (?) 

#5416
njfluffy19

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balance5050 wrote...

For those of you that accept the endings, have fun with that. I for one will never lose hope and never stop fighting.... I will not be indoctrinated.

I don't know if I already posted this but
http://i.imgur.com/74Nka.jpg

"hallucinations of "ghostly" presences" should be a pretty big hint.


It is "403 Forbidden".

#5417
wryterra

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Miss Vader wrote...

Im just curious about if there is some sort of Reaper tech on board Normandy that is indoctrinating Shep-- shouldn't the other characters become indoctrinated as well/


Why did Cerberus, under the guidance of the indoctrinated Illusive Man, put Shepard's cabin between the main bulkhead and the skin of the ship?

Just a thought.

#5418
Miss Vader

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Malanek999 wrote...

Miss Vader wrote...

Im just curious about if there is some sort of Reaper tech on board Normandy that is indoctrinating Shep-- shouldn't the other characters become indoctrinated as well/

You can explain this easily by Sheps implants.


wow- never thought about that :S thanks! makes sense

#5419
Guest_Luc0s_*

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Good work Turtle.

Personally I support Theory B.

#5420
Dessalines

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Harbringer states that we will find another way to get shepard at the end of mass effect 2. Attacking the galaxy is what they always do, they had to come up with a better plan. I think IM knows that Shep for some reason is meant to stop the Reapers. He only states that Shep is now expendable when he thinks he can beat the Collectors without shep's help. The funny thing I saw was in the Collector's Guide, they talk about the theme of mass effect is survival, but where is the survival. in all of this.

#5421
ReclaimedHavoc

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Katsaurs wrote...

StripedStocking wrote...

Fattness132 wrote...

As a paragon shep i actually chose destroy my first time. Knowing that it meant that the geth and EDI were going to be destroyed, i made the choice for the greater good of destroying the reapers and freeing the rest of the galaxy.

Seeing how the whole conversation with TiM before speaking with the kid was about how he was being controlled by the reapers, and could not control them himself, i saw this as being the worst possible choice.

Synthesis for me was also a choice my shep just couldnt make - destroying what made the galaxy what it was - the differences between the species. Synthesis makes everyone into basically the same thing, destroying their individuality.

I really hope this theory is true, so i can say i resisted the indoctrination on my first try lol.


Exact same thing happened in my first playthrough, and I really hope this indoctrination theory proves to be true, that'd be mindblowing :D


Haha this, I used the exact same reasoning to choose it too :wizard:

I chose destroy my first time too. I barely took the time to think about it, I came to destroy the Reapers, and thats what I did.

If this indoctrination thing actually is true, I'm glad I passed the test lol.

#5422
PlumPaul93

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Malanek999 wrote...

PlumPaul82393 wrote...
So you'd applaud them for making you pay $10 more at least for an ending you'd like better? Sounds like you guys are in the bargaining stage.


If this was all planned they could have everything ready to download as soon as they feel confident that enough players have finished the game. I don't see why they would charge because it is very much part of the main game. I still think it is somewhat unlikely but I was completely dismissing it a couple of hours ago. I think it would be a unique and quite clever way to end the series. I don't recall anything like this ever being done.


It wasn't planned, if they do a DLC ending I'd bet it would be released a couple months from now (ala broken steel) and it certainly wouldn't be free.

#5423
PrivateFrost

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njfluffy19 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

For those of you that accept the endings, have fun with that. I for one will never lose hope and never stop fighting.... I will not be indoctrinated.

I don't know if I already posted this but
http://i.imgur.com/74Nka.jpg

"hallucinations of "ghostly" presences" should be a pretty big hint.


It is "403 Forbidden".


It's the codex page for indoctrination. 

#5424
Turtlicious

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Luc0s wrote...

Good work Turtle.

Personally I support Theory B.


1b? 2b or just B

:P

This is why I worded it this way, so that all theories could be compiled mixed and matched 8D

#5425
The Irish Man

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 Whatever the ending was, a halluncination or not, Bioware was indoctronated by the reapers. It all doesn't make any sense. Why is the cataylst a holo/ghost? Why does the end seem like a dream? If anyone noticed when shepard talks to the ghost kid his/her voice echos unaturally as if it was all a dream.