57139 réponses à ce sujet

[Earthborn_Shepard]

Unschuld wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

Priority: Find the Reaper amulet in Harbingers ass.

I would pay at least $5 USD to hear Shepard say "This hurts you" to Harbinger as he does this

IF I HAVE TO TEAR YOU APART HARBINGER, I WILL

[lex0r11]

Unschuld wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

Priority: Find the Reaper amulet in Harbingers ass.

I would pay at least $5 USD to hear Shepard say "This hurts you" to Harbinger as he does this

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

[...]

IF I HAVE TO TEAR YOU APART HARBINGER, I WILL

Modifié par lex0r11, 11 mai 2012 - 07:21 .

[Arian Dynas]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

I have to ask a question here...

so according to the game, some unknown species started work on the Crucible a hell of a long time ago. It got destroyed, but the next circle found the plans and built it, maybe added to it, and again it got destroyed, up to this day.

Now, a couple of things.

1. Why is it that every cycle was able to discover the blueprints?

and, a bigger point:

2. Why does the Crucible work like it does, if it was built by people trying to kill the Reapers?
They would have designed a giant superweapon and hoped that it might be enough to kill them. They wouldn't have built something that emits a beam, but apparently does not have any kind of function without the Citadel and, more importantly, the Catalyst. The VI says that the Citadel is supposed to bring the power necessary for using the Crucible, but what we see is that it is rather the Catalyst - when apparently no other circle knew about his existance or powers! So what did they intend the Crucible to do when apparently it does nothing without the help of the starchild?

3. Yet another thing: Why didn't the Reapers just bomb the sh*t out of the Crucible plans?
They could have indoctrinated someone responsible for the project, have him show them where the plans are and just destroy them! That way the next cycle would not have had plans for a superweapon that might, uh, kill them?!

1:

Maybe not every cycle did discover the blueprints, we have no way to be sure beyond mister supposedly flawless Prothean VI, where might I mention that even the Protheans probably couldnt see many cycles back...to quote Liara "We know little of the Protheans and next to nothing of the ones before them." How should the Protheans be any different in this regard?

2:

Maybe they dident have a choice? If they could build a superweapon capable of threatening the Reapers without resorting to the Reapers own technology, they probably would have done it. My personal idea as to why it is the Citadel specifically that is needed is grounded in what the Citadel is, a ginat mass relay. Now if the Crucible could alter the citadel a bit it could feasibly become a giant mass accelerator cannon capable of destroy a Reaper with single shot, like the shot that glanced Klendragon.

3:

Remember what Liara said, that she was gonna leave taht box of information on many worlds and make sure it was preserved? Now imagine if a hundred different people all over the galaxy did the same. There would be no way the Reapers could find all of the boxes unless they Indoctrinated everyone who had spread them and that meant the Reapers had to know who spread...and even one box survival would mean the next cycle had the blueprints.

1.Seconded, I doubt all the cycles found the plans, to be honest, I doubt all the cycles were even united. I'd say that the Prothean Empire and the Citadel Council were probably two of the most united fronts the Reapers have faced, excepting Klendagon, whom might have stood a chance where there more of them.

2. Desperation likely, besides the Crucible itself DOES state that it requires obscene amounts of power, and the Catalyst (In other words the CITADEL, because the Star Child is a load of horse**** thought up by Harbinger) has the biggest generators around. Also, a thought about the Klendagon theory, what if the big final choice in the end is whether or not to let the Reapers go? Think about it, the Klendagon Shot GRAZED THE PLANET and made a canyon bigger than the Marianas Trench, what if Harbinger and the Reapers place themselves between the Citadel and Earth, forcing you to choose between wiping out the Reapers and obliterating Earth, (higher EMS will likely have better aim from a more complete Crucible) or letting them go to save the planet, and thus likely face a future threat from them?

3. Seconded.

[Salient Archer]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

I have to ask a question here...

so according to the game, some unknown species started work on the Crucible a hell of a long time ago. It got destroyed, but the next circle found the plans and built it, maybe added to it, and again it got destroyed, up to this day.

Now, a couple of things.

1. Why is it that every cycle was able to discover the blueprints?

and, a bigger point:

2. Why does the Crucible work like it does, if it was built by people trying to kill the Reapers?
They would have designed a giant superweapon and hoped that it might be enough to kill them. They wouldn't have built something that emits a beam, but apparently does not have any kind of function without the Citadel and, more importantly, the Catalyst. The VI says that the Citadel is supposed to bring the power necessary for using the Crucible, but what we see is that it is rather the Catalyst - when apparently no other circle knew about his existance or powers! So what did they intend the Crucible to do when apparently it does nothing without the help of the starchild?

3. Yet another thing: Why didn't the Reapers just bomb the sh*t out of the Crucible plans?
They could have indoctrinated someone responsible for the project, have him show them where the plans are and just destroy them! That way the next cycle would not have had plans for a superweapon that might, uh, kill them?!

1:

Maybe not every cycle did discover the blueprints, we have no way to be sure beyond mister supposedly flawless Prothean VI, where might I mention that even the Protheans probably couldnt see many cycles back...to quote Liara "We know little of the Protheans and next to nothing of the ones before them." How should the Protheans be any different in this regard?

2:

Maybe they dident have a choice? If they could build a superweapon capable of threatening the Reapers without resorting to the Reapers own technology, they probably would have done it. My personal idea as to why it is the Citadel specifically that is needed is grounded in what the Citadel is, a ginat mass relay. Now if the Crucible could alter the citadel a bit it could feasibly become a giant mass accelerator cannon capable of destroy a Reaper with single shot, like the shot that glanced Klendragon.

3:

Remember what Liara said, that she was gonna leave taht box of information on many worlds and make sure it was preserved? Now imagine if a hundred different people all over the galaxy did the same. There would be no way the Reapers could find all of the boxes unless they Indoctrinated everyone who had spread them and that meant the Reapers had to know who spread...and even one box survival would mean the next cycle had the blueprints.

Valid points, but I still prefer my version of why they didn't destroy it:

Sovereign: “Harbinger, we should really do something about those crucible plans!”
Harbinger: “The what in the what now?”
S: “The crucible plans! You know? That doomsday device that could potentially KILL US ALL!”
H: “Listen up now Sovie!, Can I call you Sovie?"
S: "No"
H: "Yeah Ok, whatever, I like you and all that, but seriously, you’ve got to stop being such a little B*tch all the time!”
S: “But serio--”
H: “B*tch”
S: “No, but real--”
H: “Little B*tch”
S: [sigh]
H: "That's a good boy Sovie, now off you go, We need you to teabag the Citadel"

[Obitim]

Just had a thought, a lot of people have stated that how would Hackett know that Shepard made it onto the Citadel, but wouldn't the clue be when the arms of the citadel opened? I'm still hoping the IDT is still in effect though...just had a bit of a thought lastnight as I played went through my old save and went for Destroy instead of Synthesis...

[Unschuld]

TSA_383 wrote...
Not so much, they've already responded but at this point I'd be repeating myself with those arguments and I just don't have the energy.
I'm in the UK and I've not been to bed yet... got a meeting at 1pm so I'm going to get some sleep before I got to that. Someone else respond plox.

Good night. I'll have one more glass of JW on your behalf.

[gunslinger_ruiz]

HellishFiend wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...

http://social.biowar...dex/11959777/24
Have taken to risking insignificant amounts of money and more significant amounts of reputation on people not being able to debunk some fo this stuff

Seeing people attack IT and defend face value ignore the fact that face value makes even less sense gives me a headache. 

I'm tempted to post "You're stronger than this! Break their hold! Don't let them control you!" but I doubt it would go over smoothly. I'll just plug my comparison links.

[Salient Archer]

Obitim wrote...

Just had a thought, a lot of people have stated that how would Hackett know that Shepard made it onto the Citadel, but wouldn't the clue be when the arms of the citadel opened? I'm still hoping the IDT is still in effect though...just had a bit of a thought lastnight as I played went through my old save and went for Destroy instead of Synthesis...

I thought the same too at one stage, but how would Hackett know it was Shepard that opened them? Considering the reports were that no-one survived the run down to the beam 

[Unschuld]

Obitim wrote...

Just had a thought, a lot of people have stated that how would Hackett know that Shepard made it onto the Citadel, but wouldn't the clue be when the arms of the citadel opened? I'm still hoping the IDT is still in effect though...just had a bit of a thought lastnight as I played went through my old save and went for Destroy instead of Synthesis...

Assuming IDT, the citadel arms might not be opening in reality anyway.

[spotlessvoid]

HellishFiend wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...

http://social.biowar...dex/11959777/24
Have taken to risking insignificant amounts of money and more significant amounts of reputation on people not being able to debunk some fo this stuff

Seeing people attack IT and defend face value ignore the fact that face value makes even less sense gives me a headache. 

Bioware is too stupid and too lazy to make award winning content, remember? Also, Casey Hudson is the antichrist. Or something.

Did I cover the anti-idt spectrum of arguments?

Oh yes, almost missed the most important one: They didn't because

[Arian Dynas]

spotlessvoid wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...

http://social.biowar...dex/11959777/24
Have taken to risking insignificant amounts of money and more significant amounts of reputation on people not being able to debunk some fo this stuff

Seeing people attack IT and defend face value ignore the fact that face value makes even less sense gives me a headache. 

Bioware is too stupid and too lazy to make award winning content, remember? Also, Casey Hudson is the antichrist. Or something.

Did I cover the anti-idt spectrum of arguments?

Oh yes, almost missed the most important one: They didn't because

Because what?

[Unschuld]

spotlessvoid wrote...
Bioware is too stupid and too lazy to make award winning content, remember? Also, Casey Hudson is the antichrist. Or something.

Did I cover the anti-idt spectrum of arguments?

Oh yes, almost missed the most important one: They didn't because

Yeah, that pretty much covers them all except "Indoctrination Theory doesn't fit into the lore of Mass Effect"

[HellishFiend]

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...

http://social.biowar...dex/11959777/24
Have taken to risking insignificant amounts of money and more significant amounts of reputation on people not being able to debunk some fo this stuff

Seeing people attack IT and defend face value ignore the fact that face value makes even less sense gives me a headache. 

I'm tempted to post "You're stronger than this! Break their hold! Don't let them control you!" but I doubt it would go over smoothly. I'll just plug my comparison links.

The thing is, most of us are better than that. If we were trolls, we could make their lives miserable by poking two or three TIMES as many holes in their belief in the face value context, and then troll them even harder when all they can do is fall back on the sad, tired "Bioware was lazy" defense. 

Imagine if the situation were reversed. What if the face value ending was Indoctrination (meaning, the game comes out and tells you it was indoctrination after the credits), and there was a subset of people who argued and said it all actually really happened? They'd be laughed off of the forums. 

[Earthborn_Shepard]

Unschuld wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...
Bioware is too stupid and too lazy to make award winning content, remember? Also, Casey Hudson is the antichrist. Or something.

Did I cover the anti-idt spectrum of arguments?

Oh yes, almost missed the most important one: They didn't because

Yeah, that pretty much covers them all except "Indoctrination Theory doesn't fit into the lore of Mass Effect"

Because god-children and waves of space magic do 

[gunslinger_ruiz]

Arian Dynas wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...

http://social.biowar...dex/11959777/24
Have taken to risking insignificant amounts of money and more significant amounts of reputation on people not being able to debunk some fo this stuff

Seeing people attack IT and defend face value ignore the fact that face value makes even less sense gives me a headache. 

Bioware is too stupid and too lazy to make award winning content, remember? Also, Casey Hudson is the antichrist. Or something.

Did I cover the anti-idt spectrum of arguments?

Oh yes, almost missed the most important one: They didn't because

Because what?

I think that was a joke, in which case *laughing*. Otherwise *waiting for spotless to finish*

[Salient Archer]

Unschuld wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...
Bioware is too stupid and too lazy to make award winning content, remember? Also, Casey Hudson is the antichrist. Or something.

Did I cover the anti-idt spectrum of arguments?

Oh yes, almost missed the most important one: They didn't because

Yeah, that pretty much covers them all except "Indoctrination Theory doesn't fit into the lore of Mass Effect"

Oh Yeah, that's right, I forgot, because Saren wasn't really indoctrinated he was just using that as an excuse to be a total douchebag

Modifié par Salient Archer, 11 mai 2012 - 07:29 .

[gunslinger_ruiz]

HellishFiend wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...

http://social.biowar...dex/11959777/24
Have taken to risking insignificant amounts of money and more significant amounts of reputation on people not being able to debunk some fo this stuff

Seeing people attack IT and defend face value ignore the fact that face value makes even less sense gives me a headache. 

I'm tempted to post "You're stronger than this! Break their hold! Don't let them control you!" but I doubt it would go over smoothly. I'll just plug my comparison links.

The thing is, most of us are better than that. If we were trolls, we could make their lives miserable by poking two or three TIMES as many holes in their belief in the face value context, and then troll them even harder when all they can do is fall back on the sad, tired "Bioware was lazy" defense. 

Imagine if the situation were reversed. What if the face value ending was Indoctrination (meaning, the game comes out and tells you it was indoctrination after the credits), and there was a subset of people who argued and said it all actually really happened? They'd be laughed off of the forums. 

I don't think it's actual trolling if we use so much logic on them at once... Well, maybe since it's probably going to provoke a lot of arguing.

[Arian Dynas]

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...

http://social.biowar...dex/11959777/24
Have taken to risking insignificant amounts of money and more significant amounts of reputation on people not being able to debunk some fo this stuff

Seeing people attack IT and defend face value ignore the fact that face value makes even less sense gives me a headache. 

Bioware is too stupid and too lazy to make award winning content, remember? Also, Casey Hudson is the antichrist. Or something.

Did I cover the anti-idt spectrum of arguments?

Oh yes, almost missed the most important one: They didn't because

Because what?

I think that was a joke, in which case *laughing*. Otherwise *waiting for spotless to finish*

I know, I was giving her the setup, it's supposed to go like;

They didn't because.

Because what?

Exactly.

[HellishFiend]

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...

http://social.biowar...dex/11959777/24
Have taken to risking insignificant amounts of money and more significant amounts of reputation on people not being able to debunk some fo this stuff

Seeing people attack IT and defend face value ignore the fact that face value makes even less sense gives me a headache. 

I'm tempted to post "You're stronger than this! Break their hold! Don't let them control you!" but I doubt it would go over smoothly. I'll just plug my comparison links.

The thing is, most of us are better than that. If we were trolls, we could make their lives miserable by poking two or three TIMES as many holes in their belief in the face value context, and then troll them even harder when all they can do is fall back on the sad, tired "Bioware was lazy" defense. 

Imagine if the situation were reversed. What if the face value ending was Indoctrination (meaning, the game comes out and tells you it was indoctrination after the credits), and there was a subset of people who argued and said it all actually really happened? They'd be laughed off of the forums. 

I don't think it's actual trolling if we use so much logic on them at once... Well, maybe since it's probably going to provoke a lot of arguing.

I really hate to generalize, but I think that logic is lost on most of the people that refute IT and defend face value. Theyre simply angry with what they currently have and afraid of being let down again.  Anger and fear are emotional responses that are physiologically designed to overwhelm logic and reason in the name of self-preservation. If the information already available at their fingertips doesnt convince them, there isnt much we can do. 

[gunslinger_ruiz]

HellishFiend wrote...

*snip*

I really hate to generalize, but I think that logic is lost on most of the people that refute IT and defend face value. Theyre simply angry with what they currently have and afraid of being let down again.  Anger and fear are emotional responses that are physiologically designed to overwhelm logic and reason in the name of self-preservation. If the information already available at their fingertips doesnt convince them, there isnt much we can do. 

Good point, and further confirmed by most of those who completly refuse IT. It's hard to find someone who logically objects to the Indoctrination Theory.

On a sidenote I'm starting to post in that other thread beyond my comparison links...someone stop me!

[Arian Dynas]

Also, I've decided, there is a strong chance we won't see anything more that Shepard does in the EC. things will play out as before, but after each choice there will come a scene of the Crucible doing something, either beating or losing to the Reapers, and then we pan down to Shepard lying in London rubble, and his eyes open, husk eyes if he was indoctrinated, normal if he broke free, cut to black, with a "To be Concluded in Mass Effect 3: Insert DLC or Expansion Pack title here"

We HOPE get more, and I could be entirely wrong, but worst case scenario, this is what I see happening. And to be honest, I have no problems with that.

Modifié par Arian Dynas, 11 mai 2012 - 07:38 .

[spotlessvoid]

Arian Dynas wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...

http://social.biowar...dex/11959777/24
Have taken to risking insignificant amounts of money and more significant amounts of reputation on people not being able to debunk some fo this stuff

Seeing people attack IT and defend face value ignore the fact that face value makes even less sense gives me a headache. 

Bioware is too stupid and too lazy to make award winning content, remember? Also, Casey Hudson is the antichrist. Or something.

Did I cover the anti-idt spectrum of arguments?

Oh yes, almost missed the most important one: They didn't because

Because what?

Because, Arian. Because they just didn't.

Edit: I mean, exactly.

Also, I haven't been a her since 3rd grade.

Modifié par spotlessvoid, 11 mai 2012 - 07:42 .

[HellishFiend]

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...


On a sidenote I'm starting to post in that other thread beyond my comparison links...someone stop me!

If you want to make an attempt at swaying people, I admire that. I personally dont have the stomach for it. But you have to recognize when someone has already made up their mind. If they have, then you are wasting your time. 

[Arian Dynas]

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...


On a sidenote I'm starting to post in that other thread beyond my comparison links...someone stop me!

http://www.youtube.c...YS3fNegmE#t=20s

[gunslinger_ruiz]

HellishFiend wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...


On a sidenote I'm starting to post in that other thread beyond my comparison links...someone stop me!

If you want to make an attempt at swaying people, I admire that. I personally dont have the stomach for it. But you have to recognize when someone has already made up their mind. If they have, then you are wasting your time. 

I prefered Arian's diversion link above, but yes you're right. There won't be much in the way of convincing either side thoroughly until the EC comes out... and maybe even after that.