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[HellishFiend]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

1st: That video is crap.

First off, yeah saw said documentary, and I actually have a number of errors he made that I feel he needs to fix. Yes I am a nerd with an absurdly good memory.

There are at least 4 blatant errors in the first 20 minutes, that can even be disproven with the footage at these points, so no need to call yourself a nerd because of that

To be fair, if he spent as much time pouring over evidence as we do, he wouldnt have had time to make the video.

However, what he should have done was enlisted help from people more up to speed (perhaps even one or more of us, in fact) in order to help him get his facts together.

I think he limited himself by placing too much focus on offering his opinion on everything. If he had taken a more open approach of simply offering up all the gathered evidence and letting the viewer decide how much credibility each piece had, it would have been a more complete and appropriate "documentary". 

Modifié par HellishFiend, 11 mai 2012 - 12:13 .

[Arian Dynas]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

1st: That video is crap.

First off, yeah saw said documentary, and I actually have a number of errors he made that I feel he needs to fix. Yes I am a nerd with an absurdly good memory.

There are at least 4 blatant errors in the first 20 minutes, that can even be disproven with the footage at these points, so no need to call yourself a nerd because of that

Why? Being a nerd is a good thing. Everyone on Earth is a nerd, it just means "you like things" if you;re not passionate about something, you're not human, or at the very least, suicidal.

[Swimming Ferret]

You know you really failed at an ending if fans wish it was a hallucination lol

[HellishFiend]

Swimming Ferret wrote...

You know you really failed at an ending if fans wish it was a hallucination lol

[Arian Dynas]

HellishFiend wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

1st: That video is crap.

First off, yeah saw said documentary, and I actually have a number of errors he made that I feel he needs to fix. Yes I am a nerd with an absurdly good memory.

There are at least 4 blatant errors in the first 20 minutes, that can even be disproven with the footage at these points, so no need to call yourself a nerd because of that

To be fair, if he spent as much time pouring over evidence as we do, he wouldnt have had time to make the video.

However, what he should have done was enlisted help from people more up to speed (perhaps even one or more of us, in fact) in order to help him get his facts together.

I think he limited himself by placing too much focus on the offering his opinion on everything. If he had taken a more open approach of simply offering up all the gathered evidence and letting the viewer decide how much credibility each piece had, it would have been a more complete and appropriate "documentary". 

I'll be fair to him, he uploaded the original video on the 8th of March, so he didn't have much info at the time. Though I won't deny, imo, his narration is terrible and puts me on edge, no offense, but I could do betterm and, deep voiced I may be, Morgan Freeman, I am not.

[DJBare]

HellishFiend wrote...

DJBare wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...



I agree. I've never considered anything from the leaked script to be evidence for IT. 

It can also be viewed as evidence for IT, "deception"

Possibly, though if it was an intentional leak, it is also plausible that they just wanted feedback, or to generate hype, as opposed to trying to cause misdirection. 

Possibly, but to paraphrase Hudson, "we are taking new approach something we had not tried before", to get the players really invested they need them to believe, keep in mind Shepard is the player character, so it's not Shepard they need to fool, it's the player they need to fool.

[Arian Dynas]

Swimming Ferret wrote...

You know you really failed at an ending if fans wish it was a hallucination lol

Yes, but you've really succeeded at an ending when you've actually made it a hallucination that defies normal story conventions, breaking the forth wall and playing with the player's mind.

[Arian Dynas]

DJBare wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

DJBare wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...



I agree. I've never considered anything from the leaked script to be evidence for IT. 

It can also be viewed as evidence for IT, "deception"

Possibly, though if it was an intentional leak, it is also plausible that they just wanted feedback, or to generate hype, as opposed to trying to cause misdirection. 

Possibly, but to paraphrase Hudson, "we are taking new approach something we had not tried before", to get the players really invested they need them to believe, keep in mind Shepard is the player character, so it's not Shepard they need to fool, it's the player they need to fool.

Interestingly, he also is on record as having said he wants the players to feel as Shepard does. That was enough to make me feel the intention was there the whole time, he was basically telling us they had the idea.

[HellishFiend]

DJBare wrote...

Possibly, but to paraphrase Hudson, "we are taking new approach something we had not tried before", to get the players really invested they need them to believe, keep in mind Shepard is the player character, so it's not Shepard they need to fool, it's the player they need to fool.

Good point. If "Player Indoctrination" has been planned out as much as I think it has, it's unlikely that there wouldnt have been supporting evidence in the leaked script/beta, meaning it would have had to have been held out on purpose. 

Modifié par HellishFiend, 11 mai 2012 - 12:18 .

[DJBare]

HellishFiend wrote...

DJBare wrote...

Possibly, but to paraphrase Hudson, "we are taking new approach something we had not tried before", to get the players really invested they need them to believe, keep in mind Shepard is the player character, so it's not Shepard they need to fool, it's the player they need to fool.

Good point. If "Player Indoctrination" has been planned out as much as I think it has, it's unlikely that there wouldnt have been supporting evidence in the leaked script/beta, meaning it would have had to have been held out on purpose. 

Not strictly speaking, a confidence trickster uses a mixture of both truth and lies to make themselves more believable.

Modifié par DJBare, 11 mai 2012 - 12:21 .

[Swimming Ferret]

Arian Dynas wrote...

Swimming Ferret wrote...

You know you really failed at an ending if fans wish it was a hallucination lol

Yes, but you've really succeeded at an ending when you've actually made it a hallucination that defies normal story conventions, breaking the forth wall and playing with the player's mind.

I think people are just desperate to think ME3 didn't end on such a craptastic note. But some people are just really lousy writers, as ME3 proved.

[HellishFiend]

Swimming Ferret wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Swimming Ferret wrote...

You know you really failed at an ending if fans wish it was a hallucination lol

Yes, but you've really succeeded at an ending when you've actually made it a hallucination that defies normal story conventions, breaking the forth wall and playing with the player's mind.

I think people are just desperate to think ME3 didn't end on such a craptastic note. But some people are just really lousy writers, as ME3 proved.

See what happens when you feed the trolls, Arian? Please, just let Garrus handle it. 



Having played ME2, I'm sure you know that he has the stamina to repeat himself indefinitely in this regard.

[EpyonX3]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

pirate1802 wrote...

The Normandy drive core looks suspiciously like the destroy tube

Maybe you are already completely indoctrinated and your reality is completely skewed and in destroy you actually destroy the Normandy?

Reverse Engineering. Everywhere we see Eezo, drivecores and mass effect fields, we see these tubes and cables. Even the connectors that the tubes go into resemble the ones in the decision chamber.

[HellishFiend]

DJBare wrote...

Not strictly speaking, a confidence trickster uses a mixture of both truth and lies to make themselves more believable.

So true.  I'm actually guilty of that myself, in some cases. Only when ethically necessary, though. Even though, I still feel bad about it. 

[DJBare]

Swimming Ferret wrote...

I think people are just desperate to think ME3 didn't end on such a craptastic note. But some people are just really lousy writers, as ME3 proved.

Are they really lousy?, the same ones who wrote the tunchanka mission, the same ones who wrote mordins death, if we take the ending at face value then I'd call it lousy, but then the writing quality is not consistant with the rest of the story, it does not make sense.

[Arian Dynas]

Swimming Ferret wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Swimming Ferret wrote...

You know you really failed at an ending if fans wish it was a hallucination lol

Yes, but you've really succeeded at an ending when you've actually made it a hallucination that defies normal story conventions, breaking the forth wall and playing with the player's mind.

I think people are just desperate to think ME3 didn't end on such a craptastic note. But some people are just really lousy writers, as ME3 proved.

Why not stick around a bit, friend? I am confident we can blow your mind.

[HellishFiend]

EpyonX3 wrote...


Reverse Engineering. Everywhere we see Eezo, drivecores and mass effect fields, we see these tubes and cables. Even the connectors that the tubes go into resemble the ones in the decision chamber.

You might be missing the point a bit. The point is that in an attempt to reinforce the belief that all elements from the post-Harbinger's beam sequence are created from elements in Shepard's memory, we look to find (or not find) things from previous areas of the game that match up with elements from the ending. 

[MegumiAzusa]

Arian Dynas wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

1st: That video is crap.

First off, yeah saw said documentary, and I actually have a number of errors he made that I feel he needs to fix. Yes I am a nerd with an absurdly good memory.

There are at least 4 blatant errors in the first 20 minutes, that can even be disproven with the footage at these points, so no need to call yourself a nerd because of that

To be fair, if he spent as much time pouring over evidence as we do, he wouldnt have had time to make the video.

However, what he should have done was enlisted help from people more up to speed (perhaps even one or more of us, in fact) in order to help him get his facts together.

I think he limited himself by placing too much focus on the offering his opinion on everything. If he had taken a more open approach of simply offering up all the gathered evidence and letting the viewer decide how much credibility each piece had, it would have been a more complete and appropriate "documentary". 

I'll be fair to him, he uploaded the original video on the 8th of March, so he didn't have much info at the time. Though I won't deny, imo, his narration is terrible and puts me on edge, no offense, but I could do betterm and, deep voiced I may be, Morgan Freeman, I am not.

YT: Published on May 8, 2012
BSN: Created about 3 days ago
his forum: Posted 08 May 2012
May, not March

[Arian Dynas]

HellishFiend wrote...

Swimming Ferret wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Swimming Ferret wrote...

You know you really failed at an ending if fans wish it was a hallucination lol

Yes, but you've really succeeded at an ending when you've actually made it a hallucination that defies normal story conventions, breaking the forth wall and playing with the player's mind.

I think people are just desperate to think ME3 didn't end on such a craptastic note. But some people are just really lousy writers, as ME3 proved.

See what happens when you feed the trolls, Arian? Please, just let Garrus handle it. 

*snip*

Having played ME2, I'm sure you know that he has the stamina to repeat himself indefinitely in this regard.

Now now, if we took that point of veiw we'd never convince anyone, this fellow strikes me as being somewhat reasonable, and moderately intelligent, he came criticizing the endings, not really calling us stupid or delusional, or comparing us to religious fanatics, he apparently just thinks we're devoted fans (which we are) whom don't want to see Mass Effect die (which we don't) the only part he has wrong is thinking that we're pulling this out of our asses.

[Arian Dynas]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

1st: That video is crap.

First off, yeah saw said documentary, and I actually have a number of errors he made that I feel he needs to fix. Yes I am a nerd with an absurdly good memory.

There are at least 4 blatant errors in the first 20 minutes, that can even be disproven with the footage at these points, so no need to call yourself a nerd because of that

To be fair, if he spent as much time pouring over evidence as we do, he wouldnt have had time to make the video.

However, what he should have done was enlisted help from people more up to speed (perhaps even one or more of us, in fact) in order to help him get his facts together.

I think he limited himself by placing too much focus on the offering his opinion on everything. If he had taken a more open approach of simply offering up all the gathered evidence and letting the viewer decide how much credibility each piece had, it would have been a more complete and appropriate "documentary". 

I'll be fair to him, he uploaded the original video on the 8th of March, so he didn't have much info at the time. Though I won't deny, imo, his narration is terrible and puts me on edge, no offense, but I could do betterm and, deep voiced I may be, Morgan Freeman, I am not.

YT: Published on May 8, 2012
BSN: Created about 3 days ago
his forum: Posted 08 May 2012
May, not March

Oooh. Well nevermind then BURN HIM AS A HERETIC! 

[Swimming Ferret]

DJBare wrote...

Swimming Ferret wrote...

I think people are just desperate to think ME3 didn't end on such a craptastic note. But some people are just really lousy writers, as ME3 proved.

Are they really lousy?, the same ones who wrote the tunchanka mission, the same ones who wrote mordins death, if we take the ending at face value then I'd call it lousy, but then the writing quality is not consistant with the rest of the story, it does not make sense.

You mean the same guys who turned Cerberus into an empire and gave us Tali's awesome face?

[HellishFiend]

Arian Dynas wrote...

Now now, if we took that point of veiw we'd never convince anyone, this fellow strikes me as being somewhat reasonable, and moderately intelligent, he came criticizing the endings, not really calling us stupid or delusional, or comparing us to religious fanatics, he apparently just thinks we're devoted fans (which we are) whom don't want to see Mass Effect die (which we don't) the only part he has wrong is thinking that we're pulling this out of our asses.

Citing one's own opinion as fact ("some people are just really lousy writers, as ME3 proved") is not setting the stage for that opinion being swayed. 

Modifié par HellishFiend, 11 mai 2012 - 12:31 .

[Arian Dynas]

HellishFiend wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Now now, if we took that point of veiw we'd never convince anyone, this fellow strikes me as being somewhat reasonable, and moderately intelligent, he came criticizing the endings, not really calling us stupid or delusional, or comparing us to religious fanatics, he apparently just thinks we're devoted fans (which we are) whom don't want to see Mass Effect die (which we don't) the only part he has wrong is thinking that we're pulling this out of our asses.

Citing one's own opinion as fact ("some people are just really lousy writers, as ME3 proved") is not setting the stage for that opinion being swayed. 

Might as well try.

[Swimming Ferret]

Arian Dynas wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Swimming Ferret wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Swimming Ferret wrote...

You know you really failed at an ending if fans wish it was a hallucination lol

Yes, but you've really succeeded at an ending when you've actually made it a hallucination that defies normal story conventions, breaking the forth wall and playing with the player's mind.

I think people are just desperate to think ME3 didn't end on such a craptastic note. But some people are just really lousy writers, as ME3 proved.

See what happens when you feed the trolls, Arian? Please, just let Garrus handle it. 

*snip*

Having played ME2, I'm sure you know that he has the stamina to repeat himself indefinitely in this regard.

Now now, if we took that point of veiw we'd never convince anyone, this fellow strikes me as being somewhat reasonable, and moderately intelligent, he came criticizing the endings, not really calling us stupid or delusional, or comparing us to religious fanatics, he apparently just thinks we're devoted fans (which we are) whom don't want to see Mass Effect die (which we don't) the only part he has wrong is thinking that we're pulling this out of our asses.

I'm a she by the way.

And no, I'm not a troll.

Disagreeing =/= troll.

I've just never been convinced by the Indoctrination Theory. I can't really think that Bioware would be foolish enough to not actually put it in the end game, what with the incredible backlash that's going on. They've made quite a few mistakes, such as day on DLC on disk and all those PR comments that make me way less inclined to listen to them. Also, they've already stated they will not change the end, and I don't understand how IT could be true if that is the case, since the IT rests on the fact the ends we get aren't the real end.

[HellishFiend]

Swimming Ferret wrote...

I'm a she by the way.

And no, I'm not a troll.

Disagreeing =/= troll.

I've just never been convinced by the Indoctrination Theory. I can't really think that Bioware would be foolish enough to not actually put it in the end game, what with the incredible backlash that's going on. They've made quite a few mistakes, such as day on DLC on disk and all those PR comments that make me way less inclined to listen to them. Also, they've already stated they will not change the end, and I don't understand how IT could be true if that is the case, since the IT rests on the fact the ends we get aren't the real end.

Except you're not disagreeing, youre posing your opinions as fact, which comes off as trying to correct our mistaken beliefs rather than disagreeing. 

And you obviously arent up to speed on what IT really is, based on what you're saying. Everything in that entire paragraph (sans the Day 1 DLC) has already been addressed by IT.