57139 réponses à ce sujet

[HyperGlass]

Kyrene wrote...

HyperGlass wrote...

Kyrene wrote...

What I don't get is even if IT is true, what happens after Shepard wakes up? Do the Reapers just curb stomp us anyway, since them being destroyed was just a dream?

It is logical to assume Shepard will activate the Crucible for solely destroying the Reapers while Harbinger is just ranting in the background or depending on EMS or choice you're indoctrinated and disable the Crucible and everyone gets wiped out and Joker flees for real.

How? How is it logical, and how would it be possible if Shepard's barely alive after the red beam Harby hits them with?

Look, I find a lot of the so-called proof for the IT very convincing. If IT is true, and the destroy-option-with-breath is the best/paragon ending, that still leaves Shepard in some rubble in London on Earth. They still have to reach the Citadel somehow and activate the Crucible for real this time, although they look really hurt/close to death there. I mean, after Harby wipes out most of the "let's-charge-the-white-pillar-of-light" team, and the Sword/Hammer is being wiped out, is there enough peeps/aliens left to still do the job?

I see your point but somehow Shepard has to get there but the beam is still active from the light in the wake up scene. If Harbinger is still there then a distraction must be made but on the postive side Anderson will still be alive. I really don't know what Shepard's physical state is in reality like will they be able to walk? I really don't think that things have played out that bad for the fleet because in the dream regardless they get wiped out. Maybe EMS will play a bigger role.

[estebanus]

Well, I'm going out to eat dinner with my girlfriend, so I guess I'll see you later!

[HyperGlass]

estebanus wrote...

Well, I'm going out to eat dinner with my girlfriend, so I guess I'll see you later!

Have a good evening

[Rosewind]

estebanus wrote...

Rosewind wrote...

lex0r11 wrote...

arc_gabriel_ wrote...

Someone say cookie? =D

Lol I honestly dont feel like cookies today.

How can you not feel like cookies?! Cookies is something you can have any day and everyday, no matter what yor mood is!!!

BURN, HERETIC, BURN!!! BURN!!! BUUUUURRRRRNNNNN!!!!!!

/sarcasm, of cou^_^rse!

He He it tickles

[Nauks]

lex0r11 wrote...

Let's stop asking Wald anything. Every request for clarification is met with a meaningless phrase and he will keep avoiding giving a good reason to be here. Making fun of everything while doing it.


social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9727423/2214#11992797
See his post an decide if it's worth a report.

Going out to eat, see you guys later.

I can't help to marvel at the level of bullheaded, willful ignorance that particular individual is spewing.
And the OCD type reassurance of this ultimatum if I.T. turns out to be wrong. another level of creepy.
But indeed, trolls hate being ignored, we should all know this by now (me included).

Also good afternoon people o/ depending on which side of the pond you're on.

Modifié par Nauks, 11 mai 2012 - 03:50 .

[arc_gabriel_]

dreamgazer wrote...

General rule of thumb regarding provocateurs:



"Keep absolutely still, his vision's based on movement."

XD Hell being still, run!

[Tirian Thorn]

Uncle Jo and I were discussing this a bit yesterday
What if the whole situation with the citadel is just a big trap by the reapers?
The plan is two-fold. 
1)       Draw as many allied ships as possible to one location


2)      Draw Shepard to one specific location. 


EVA grabbed the information from the prothean archives and potentially could have uploaded a significant amount of information to Cerberus before Shepard and Co stopped her. 
EVA could have also modified the data. 
TIM unknowingly passes along information about the crucible to the reapers and after TIM cracks the prothean VI Victory, the reapers now know that the citadel is the catalyst and if they have the plans, they could very-well prevent the crucible from working or just luring Shepard into a trap to finally fully indoctrinate him/her. 
What do you think?

[arc_gabriel_]

lex0r11 wrote...

Let's stop asking Wald anything. Every request for clarification is met with a meaningless phrase and he will keep avoiding giving a good reason to be here. Making fun of everything while doing it.


social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9727423/2214#11992797
See his post an decide if it's worth a report.

Going out to eat, see you guys later.

-hands you magic- Use it wisely my friend, use it on the cook if they mess up your food. 

[MegumiAzusa]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

DJBare wrote...

Anderson: woah, the walls, they are shifting changing.
Moments later Shepard sees these walls move as s/he approaches them.

This one keeps bugging, I keep getting the feeling there is a clue in those walls, specifically in the pattern.
Btw, if that were the walls Anderson spoke of, then he definitely took the same route as Shepard, again, how was Anderson ahead of Shepard when he specifically states "I followed you up"

Yes! That line from Anderson was the VERY first sign that led me to believe in IDT.

ALSO, if you have studied that wall then I also assume you have studied the rest of the area. It is literally impossible for Anderson to have taken a different route, there is only one walkway leading into the control room and the control room itself is surrounded by walls full of electricity. there is no getting in there ANY other way. Period. Anderson can't really be there.

Not quite, you hear some sound of moving stuff when Anderson says "one of the walls just realigned itself." The sound is very different from the sound when the walls and panels are moved. It is more likely that the wall on the far side can be moved to connect different areas if needed and the bridge extended. The second movement would be more in line with a second action that always follows the first (sliding the wallparts and panels in place after the right alignment is secured)

For what Anderson says: it somehow looks as if the triggers were misplaced, you step on the upper part of the bridge to cross over while Anderson just thinks he found a way to cross over, but you still say "don't get too far ahead of me". Not only what Anderson says doesn't make much sense, but what you are saying doesn't make much sense either.

[Nauks]

Tirian Thorn wrote...

Uncle Jo and I were discussing this a bit yesterday
What if the whole situation with the citadel is just a big trap by the reapers?
The plan is two-fold. 
1)       Draw as many allied ships as possible to one location


2)      Draw Shepard to one specific location. 


EVA grabbed the information from the prothean archives and potentially could have uploaded a significant amount of information to Cerberus before Shepard and Co stopped her. 
EVA could have also modified the data. 
TIM unknowingly passes along information about the crucible to the reapers and after TIM cracks the prothean VI Victory, the reapers now know that the citadel is the catalyst and if they have the plans, they could very-well prevent the crucible from working or just luring Shepard into a trap to finally fully indoctrinate him/her. 
What do you think?

The way we are introduced to it in-game is quite telling too.

If it were our saving grace for the series, would it really be introduced at the very beginning like that? and no matter how hard you fail, it will always get built.

[Stigweird85]

Can't we all just play nice? I'm sure by this stage everybody has made their own minds up. I don't think anyone will be jumping ship regardless of what evidence is provided for either side so can we all stop arguing over what(for the moment) is speculation?

[dreamgazer]

Tirian Thorn wrote...

Uncle Jo and I were discussing this a bit yesterday
What if the whole situation with the citadel is just a big trap by the reapers?
The plan is two-fold. 
1)       Draw as many allied ships as possible to one location


2)      Draw Shepard to one specific location. 


EVA grabbed the information from the prothean archives and potentially could have uploaded a significant amount of information to Cerberus before Shepard and Co stopped her. 
EVA could have also modified the data. 
TIM unknowingly passes along information about the crucible to the reapers and after TIM cracks the prothean VI Victory, the reapers now know that the citadel is the catalyst and if they have the plans, they could very-well prevent the crucible from working or just luring Shepard into a trap to finally fully indoctrinate him/her. 
What do you think?

I'm not sure about the full sprawl of your logic (which is sound enough), but I definitely think it should be concretely considered that Shepard is on the Reapers' radar as a being---"the" being--- that needs to be conquered to demoralize the rest of the resistance towards their harvesting. Doing number 2 achieves number 1, and I definitely think that they might have even gone so far as to create the conduit solely as a way to get Shepard on their turf.  They're risking Shepard deactivating the whole thing in the process, but it might be a risk worth taking if they can sway him/her. 

[Tirian Thorn]

dreamgazer wrote...

Tirian Thorn wrote...

Uncle Jo and I were discussing this a bit yesterday
What if the whole situation with the citadel is just a big trap by the reapers?
The plan is two-fold. 
1)       Draw as many allied ships as possible to one location


2)      Draw Shepard to one specific location. 


EVA grabbed the information from the prothean archives and potentially could have uploaded a significant amount of information to Cerberus before Shepard and Co stopped her. 
EVA could have also modified the data. 
TIM unknowingly passes along information about the crucible to the reapers and after TIM cracks the prothean VI Victory, the reapers now know that the citadel is the catalyst and if they have the plans, they could very-well prevent the crucible from working or just luring Shepard into a trap to finally fully indoctrinate him/her. 
What do you think?

I'm not sure about the full sprawl of your logic (which is sound enough), but I definitely think it should be concretely considered that Shepard is on the Reapers' radar as a being---"the" being--- that needs to be conquered to demoralize the rest of the resistance towards their harvesting. Doing number 2 achieves number 1, and I definitely think that they might have even gone so far as to create the conduit solely as a way to get Shepard on their turf.  They're risking Shepard deactivating the whole thing in the process, but it might be a risk worth taking if they can sway him/her. 

And that’s part of it too, the reapers are pretty confident in their own superiority. They may not believe in luck, but Shepard has been rather “fortunate” to have evaded them for so long. 

I’m sure they’d feel certain they could close the trap and Shepard would be theirs. In their minds, it’s certain that Shepard will fail so there’s little risk. 

[EpyonX3]

pirate1802 wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

marcelo_sdk wrote...


Again that? Well, at first, Shepard was not using a simple space suit. He was wearing a combat armor, equipped with kinetic barriers and high-resistant material. That saved him to being desintegrated in re-entry, but we know he was already dead. We know, as Jacob says, he was not more than flesh and bones. So, as most people who don't like the Lazarus Project try to state, Shepard was not intact when he was recovered.

The brain was not totally intact, he was just in a salvageable state (much scientists of Cerberus tought differently at the time), and was reconstructed with the help of implants (now, people must know this is sci-fi. But this kind of technology is not so unreal). 

Plus, the planet had lower gravity. So, I think it's very acceptable if we know it is, as I said, a sci-fi.

But a man falling in Earth with common cloathes, exactly inside a tiny space between rubbles and surviver, this is space magic or anything else you want to call it.

This is actually my point. It's unreal for a brain to be rebuilt with implants, but acceptable because it's sci-fi. However, Shepard surviving an explosion on a station that potentially provides protection from these hazards is unacceptable.

If body armor can resist the temperatures of reentry, how does shepard even get hurt by thermal bullets?

Because it would be a very bad videogame where you cannot die xD

Therefore, physics and Shepard's mortality can and has been tweaked for convenience.

[EpyonX3]

Tirian Thorn wrote...

Uncle Jo and I were discussing this a bit yesterday
What if the whole situation with the citadel is just a big trap by the reapers?
The plan is two-fold. 
1)       Draw as many allied ships as possible to one location


2)      Draw Shepard to one specific location. 


EVA grabbed the information from the prothean archives and potentially could have uploaded a significant amount of information to Cerberus before Shepard and Co stopped her. 
EVA could have also modified the data. 
TIM unknowingly passes along information about the crucible to the reapers and after TIM cracks the prothean VI Victory, the reapers now know that the citadel is the catalyst and if they have the plans, they could very-well prevent the crucible from working or just luring Shepard into a trap to finally fully indoctrinate him/her. 
What do you think?

Well this would go against the Reaper's strategy of divide and conquer. I'm sure with their vast knowledge and calculation skills, they'd conclude that taking on all of those ships at once are bound to produce losses on their end.

Also, the reapes are harvesting. Why bother indoctrinating Shepard anymore when his entire race is dwindling and the reapers are winning?

This goes back to my point before. The reapers are arrogant and over confident just as they are powerful. A more cautious being would have put the Citadel so out of reach and innaccessible that it couldn't be used against them.

Then it would move it around so it can't be traced easily. Organics will waste resources and lives trying to find the Citadel afterwards, dividing them up even more and waring down their numbers.

The best place I would have put it is past the omega relay. It is the least accessible and hostile environment in the whole galaxy. Just by having a few reapers on each side would prove to be a challenge. But even if you manage to get through it and reapers and debris and avoid other hazards, there's boarding the closed citadel, finding the control panel and flying it back through the relay, where Reaper reinforcements would surely be waiting.

[dreamgazer]

Two random, general bits I noticed during my last session that pertain to the game's potential focus on the theory:

1) When Balak mentions the Reaper corpse that the Batarians were hiding and studying, Shepard places firm emphasis on the fact that the scientists had become indoctrinated. Yet another dramatically-emphasized bit about indoctrination. (takes shot)

2) Interesting bit of foreshadowing/allusion to the ending: during the end of the Ardat-Yakshi monastery mission, Rila chooses to destroy herself instead of succumbing to the Reapers and becoming a Banshee---something many would consider a form of synthesis. The scene places pretty firm emphasis on Rila not bending to their will on a general mental level, and not just on the terms of her turning into a Banshee.

Modifié par dreamgazer, 11 mai 2012 - 04:41 .

[Daryslash]

Hawk227 wrote...

Golferguy758 wrote...

Daryslash wrote...

One thing though (first post on the forum, but being reading for a long time), why would Harbinger try to indoctrinate Shepard instead of just destroying her/him with the beam?

Don't get me wrong, I think everything pointed out in this thread make a lot of sense, and I hope this theory comes out to be right. I actually think it is right.

Martyrs are much more of a pain to deal with.  If Shepard is flat out killed by Harbinger you can be sure that the raage induced fighting from everyone would increase massively. Would it necessarily change anything? Unlikely, but it could cost several more Reaper ships etc. People fight to avenge martyrs incredibly hard. (Joan of Arc)

Also, turning your foe into you pawn is a massive insult. Shepard has resisted the Reapers for so long, but sitll fails and becomes a pawn of harbinger.  Reapers are arrogant, this would be one more way of showing how superior they are to us.

On a tactical front an indoctrinated Shepard would be very valuable. The galaxy is following Shepard, not Humanity, not any other individual, Shepard. If Shepard is turned the galaxy-wide resistance would fall apart to their own in-fighting. If they could get Shepard into certain meetings they information they pass could wipe out any vestiges of resistance very fast.
 

This.

Shepard is the symbol of the resistance. The Krogan, Turians, Asari, Quarians, Geth, etc. are following him, not Hackett or Anderson. Turning him into a Reaper pawn is a solid kick in the balls to the entire resistance. Without Shepard uniting the galaxy through his force of will alone, the resistance fractures and becomes that much easier to defeat. Not to mention that Harbinger has long been intent (through ME2) of at the very least keeping Shepards body.

Yeah, I suppose that makes sense.

On another subject: I see a lot of people mentioning the "hums" James complain about.
Well, I don't know if someone else said this already, but the "hum" is something you yourself (the player) can hear very clear in the shuttle deck, and it's actually somewhat loud. It sounds like some factory-like noise and it repeats non-stop. What is the mystery here? I think it's just some noise of the Normandy engine itself. Nothing abnormal.

[spotlessvoid]

Salient Archer wrote...

Salient Archer wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Salient Archer wrote...

Hey guys, what's the link to the literalist thread?, I feel like lurking for a bit to see what they're crapping on about.

Did you change your icon? I swear I thought that was wald come back to haunt us.

Just making preparations for my delve into literalist territories, thought it best to blend into the surroundings before I did.

Also, who is this Wald you speak of?

Gack, I just....can't be poss....NO! I KILLED YOU WITH FIRE!

[waldstr18]

hi spotlessvoid.

[SS2Dante]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

DJBare wrote...

Anderson: woah, the walls, they are shifting changing.
Moments later Shepard sees these walls move as s/he approaches them.

This one keeps bugging, I keep getting the feeling there is a clue in those walls, specifically in the pattern.
Btw, if that were the walls Anderson spoke of, then he definitely took the same route as Shepard, again, how was Anderson ahead of Shepard when he specifically states "I followed you up"

Yes! That line from Anderson was the VERY first sign that led me to believe in IDT.

ALSO, if you have studied that wall then I also assume you have studied the rest of the area. It is literally impossible for Anderson to have taken a different route, there is only one walkway leading into the control room and the control room itself is surrounded by walls full of electricity. there is no getting in there ANY other way. Period. Anderson can't really be there.

Not quite, you hear some sound of moving stuff when Anderson says "one of the walls just realigned itself." The sound is very different from the sound when the walls and panels are moved. It is more likely that the wall on the far side can be moved to connect different areas if needed and the bridge extended. The second movement would be more in line with a second action that always follows the first (sliding the wallparts and panels in place after the right alignment is secured)

For what Anderson says: it somehow looks as if the triggers were misplaced, you step on the upper part of the bridge to cross over while Anderson just thinks he found a way to cross over, but you still say "don't get too far ahead of me". Not only what Anderson says doesn't make much sense, but what you are saying doesn't make much sense either.

Lol yeah, literally just played that part and if you just keep walking forward from when you wake up you're standing in the gap when Anderson mentions it.

I still can't figure out the weird lighting thing that happens when you approach the doors of the first room though :S

[SS2Dante]

Daryslash wrote...

Hawk227 wrote...

Golferguy758 wrote...

Daryslash wrote...

One thing though (first post on the forum, but being reading for a long time), why would Harbinger try to indoctrinate Shepard instead of just destroying her/him with the beam?

Don't get me wrong, I think everything pointed out in this thread make a lot of sense, and I hope this theory comes out to be right. I actually think it is right.

Martyrs are much more of a pain to deal with.  If Shepard is flat out killed by Harbinger you can be sure that the raage induced fighting from everyone would increase massively. Would it necessarily change anything? Unlikely, but it could cost several more Reaper ships etc. People fight to avenge martyrs incredibly hard. (Joan of Arc)

Also, turning your foe into you pawn is a massive insult. Shepard has resisted the Reapers for so long, but sitll fails and becomes a pawn of harbinger.  Reapers are arrogant, this would be one more way of showing how superior they are to us.

On a tactical front an indoctrinated Shepard would be very valuable. The galaxy is following Shepard, not Humanity, not any other individual, Shepard. If Shepard is turned the galaxy-wide resistance would fall apart to their own in-fighting. If they could get Shepard into certain meetings they information they pass could wipe out any vestiges of resistance very fast.
 

This.

Shepard is the symbol of the resistance. The Krogan, Turians, Asari, Quarians, Geth, etc. are following him, not Hackett or Anderson. Turning him into a Reaper pawn is a solid kick in the balls to the entire resistance. Without Shepard uniting the galaxy through his force of will alone, the resistance fractures and becomes that much easier to defeat. Not to mention that Harbinger has long been intent (through ME2) of at the very least keeping Shepards body.

Yeah, I suppose that makes sense.

On another subject: I see a lot of people mentioning the "hums" James complain about.
Well, I don't know if someone else said this already, but the "hum" is something you yourself (the player) can hear very clear in the shuttle deck, and it's actually somewhat loud. It sounds like some factory-like noise and it repeats non-stop. What is the mystery here? I think it's just some noise of the Normandy engine itself. Nothing abnormal.

The mystery is that James is an Alliance officer and has actually served on the Normandy before. He knows what the engine noise sounds like.

[MegumiAzusa]

SS2Dante wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

DJBare wrote...

Anderson: woah, the walls, they are shifting changing.
Moments later Shepard sees these walls move as s/he approaches them.

This one keeps bugging, I keep getting the feeling there is a clue in those walls, specifically in the pattern.
Btw, if that were the walls Anderson spoke of, then he definitely took the same route as Shepard, again, how was Anderson ahead of Shepard when he specifically states "I followed you up"

Yes! That line from Anderson was the VERY first sign that led me to believe in IDT.

ALSO, if you have studied that wall then I also assume you have studied the rest of the area. It is literally impossible for Anderson to have taken a different route, there is only one walkway leading into the control room and the control room itself is surrounded by walls full of electricity. there is no getting in there ANY other way. Period. Anderson can't really be there.

Not quite, you hear some sound of moving stuff when Anderson says "one of the walls just realigned itself." The sound is very different from the sound when the walls and panels are moved. It is more likely that the wall on the far side can be moved to connect different areas if needed and the bridge extended. The second movement would be more in line with a second action that always follows the first (sliding the wallparts and panels in place after the right alignment is secured)

For what Anderson says: it somehow looks as if the triggers were misplaced, you step on the upper part of the bridge to cross over while Anderson just thinks he found a way to cross over, but you still say "don't get too far ahead of me". Not only what Anderson says doesn't make much sense, but what you are saying doesn't make much sense either.

Lol yeah, literally just played that part and if you just keep walking forward from when you wake up you're standing in the gap when Anderson mentions it.

I still can't figure out the weird lighting thing that happens when you approach the doors of the first room though :S

What do you mean exactly by "weird lighting"?

[balance5050]

EpyonX3 wrote...

pirate1802 wrote...

Because it would be a very bad videogame where you cannot die xD

Therefore, physics and Shepard's mortality can and has been tweaked for convenience.

It's always at least been explained: medigel, shields, Lazerus, etc. if the EC is to attempt to explain this scene without IT, then it would show him either

A. Show him flying miles to one of the wing of the citadel, through space, and NOT being zapped when he goes through the kinetic barriers that holds the atmosphere in. We'll assume that the cement did happen to be there from an explosion on the wing though this still seems unlikely.

B. The previous explosion not vaporizing him and the Citadel fell to Earth, with him on or in it.

C. He fell through the Earths atmosphere, won't even touchit considering it would be a harder impact than the first time he did that.

IMO, it would be a lot easier to do the IT end than attempt to show anything as ridiculous as any of the previously stated things.

Bioware has always strived for that "believeablity" factor and I don't see why this would be different. If I wanted that anime style stuff I would play Asura's Wrath, which has the "true end" DLC in like 2 weeks;)

Modifié par balance5050, 11 mai 2012 - 04:37 .

[Dwailing]

 I just realized that I don't think anyone has done this yet.

This thread is:
 
So, what have I missed?

[Daryslash]

SS2Dante wrote...

The mystery is that James is an Alliance officer and has actually served on the Normandy before. He knows what the engine noise sounds like.

Not necessarily, no.

Also, even if the sound is familiar to him, that doesn't mean he understands it in a sense of knowing where it comes from in the engine. He is not an engineer, he is a soldier.