57139 réponses à ce sujet

[seitani]

On the second playthrough i had this urgent need to just shoot the kid in the vent.

[BigBossBoo]

PDesign wrote...

krystalevenstar wrote...

Again 2:23 - 2:25 when the line 'You have hope, more than you think' is said, it's very easy to hear femshep is the one saying 'think'

Extracted

dl.dropbox.com/u/26913187/end003_catalyst_m_D_Int.033.ogg

The shepard voice are echoing the childs, indicating that it's all in his mind.  If you take the audio file and start it from sec 1, not sec 0, you can hear JUST femshep's voice, 1 second after GC finishes speaking.

[xDarkspace]

PDesign wrote...

krystalevenstar wrote...

lil_89 wrote...

PDesign wrote...

krystalevenstar wrote...

Again 2:23 - 2:25 when the line 'You have hope, more than you think' is said, it's very easy to hear femshep is the one saying 'think'

Extracted

dl.dropbox.com/u/26913187/end003_catalyst_m_D_Int.033.ogg

HOLY UTHER****ER!

wow, that sound like jennifer hale to me! not too sure about meer though

A better example of when Meer talks can be found at: 3:53 - 3:58, when he says 'You will die, you will control us, but you will lose everything you have'

Here
dl.dropbox.com/u/26913187/end003_catalyst_m_D_Int.051.ogg

[TcomJ]

lil_89 wrote...

TcomJ wrote...

I know how bad and disappointing it is, but don't run away from the fact that it is a bad writing.

It's like you read Harry Potter, 7 of them, and then JK Rowling tells you at the end of the last paragraph that this is all just a dream LOL

No, it is actually like Voldemort was in Harry's mind, and made him believe Sirius was in danger to lure him to the ministry of magic, so yeah, J.K Rowling totally used the same effect to create a twist, and it was awesome. Check your facts before comparing

Oh my god, it's a freaking analogy and it's for the ending!!!! The point is it's a freaking lazy ass bad written ending.

And you are the one that has to get the fact right because that didn't happen in the last 2 min or the last paragraph of the book, did it? -"-

the ending was like "The wand refused to kill the one to whom it had allegiance, further
protecting Harry. During the duel, Harry refuses to use the killing
curse and even encourages Voldemort to feel remorse, one known way to
restore Voldemort's shattered soul. Voldemort dies when his own killing
curse backfires; he and his Death Eaters are finally defeated. The wizarding world is able to live in peace once more."

....If I were to add "sorry, suck to be you, this is all just a dream hahaaa~~~" to that last page.... it will give the same outrage of the fan effect as well duh

Modifié par TcomJ, 13 mars 2012 - 12:44 .

[SomeoneStoleMyName]

 Yet the destory ending is the only ending shepard can live in and requires the most ems to get that scene if shepard breathing while lying on rubble. 

There is a saying that goes "Those who fear death cannot escape it"

I like how the option that will kill Shepard will save him. With no fear of death, and an absolute resolve to kill the reapers - he is strong enough to survive the manipulating deceiving little brat. God I love it.

[Lugaidster]

pumpkinpirate wrote...

Lugaidster wrote...

Yo guys, I was listening to the talk with the catalyst and I realized this. We all focused a lot on the fact that the destroy option is just "silly" according to GC. However, did anyone really listen to what he says about the others? Here's a transcript (made by me ):

GC: Or do you think you can control us?
Shep: So TIM was right after all...?
GC: Yes, but he could never have taken control, because we already controlled him.
Shep: But I can?
GC: You will die, you will control us, but you will lose everything you have.
Shep: But the reapers will obey me?
GC: Yes, but there's another solution.
Shep: Yeah?
GC: Synthesis
Shep: And that is?
GC: Add your energy to the crucible's. Everything you are will absorbed and then sent out. The chain reaction will combine all synthetic and organic life into a new framework. A new DNA.
Shep: I don't know...
GC: Why not? Synthetics are already part of you. Can you imagine your life without them?
Shep: And there will be peace?
GC: The cycle will end. Synthesis is the final evolution of life, but we need each other to make it happen. You have a difficult decision. Releasing the energy of the crucible will end the cycle, but the mass relays will be destroyed. The paths are open, but you have to choose.

No please focus on the fact that almost everything good about those decisions are assumed by shep, but never actually stated by GC. Will there be peace? Deflect the answer. On the control option you will control him, but GC didn't tell for how long (look at it this way, if I can control you while I'm alive but by trying to control you I will die, I can "technically" control you). Aside from the fact that synthesis appears to be "the best choice" but no assurance of victory is given. Be honest, would you take such an important decision by questioning them with such simple queries?

To me it's clear that GC is being deceitful. Any comments?

Very intresting. Shepard also seems to very accepting of what he says.

This one: "GC: Why not? Synthetics are already part of you. Can you imagine your life without them?" is especially intriguing to me. That represents a change of pace or tone in the conversation. I giving you choice and then I say "why not you dumb ****! this is clearly the best choice PICK IT!" it's an exageration, but it certainly feels that way.

[AM94]

FrostByte-GER wrote...

Also...has anybody noticed, that the godchild says "wake up" only on high ems scores? I heared in my ending(3000ems) "Why are you here" there was no "wake up". Now I watched the best ending on YT. The child says "wake up".

But now, watch this: www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlyGL9Cqsxw#t=08m40s
And compare it with this vid:

Heared it? Another proof for the indoctrination theory!!!

very interesting^

[xDarkspace]

xDarkspace wrote...

PDesign wrote...

krystalevenstar wrote...

lil_89 wrote...

PDesign wrote...

krystalevenstar wrote...

Again 2:23 - 2:25 when the line 'You have hope, more than you think' is said, it's very easy to hear femshep is the one saying 'think'

Extracted

dl.dropbox.com/u/26913187/end003_catalyst_m_D_Int.033.ogg

wow, that sound like jennifer hale to me! not too sure about meer though

A better example of when Meer talks can be found at: 3:53 - 3:58, when he says 'You will die, you will control us, but you will lose everything you have'

Here
dl.dropbox.com/u/26913187/end003_catalyst_m_D_Int.051.ogg

HOLY MOTHER****ER!

[xDarkspace]

solid evidence its a dream!

[Bigdoser]

FrostByte-GER wrote...

Also...has anybody noticed, that the godchild says "wake up" only on high ems scores? I heared in my ending(3000ems) "Why are you here" there was no "wake up". Now I watched the best ending on YT. The child says "wake up".

But now, watch this: www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlyGL9Cqsxw#t=08m40s
And compare it with this vid:

Heared it? Another proof for the indoctrination theory!!!

Wow I did not catch onto that.

[eXiLe_CccP]

Turtlicious wrote...

ok so I'm going to compile the two Pre Earth reclamation theories, and the two Ramp Theories.

theory 1 is that indoctrination is at the start of ME3 and that during the whole game every dream is more and more indoctrination. Also, there is an indoctrination device on the normandy, (supported by Vega mentioning a Hum all throughout the game) This is supported by the re-apperance of the RGC all througout the game. People disagree because people believe Indoctrination, (from now on condensed to ID) is not as subtle as that, and would not only affect dreams.

Theory 2 is that it happens on the Normandy, that the child is real in the beginning, but once on the Normandy, you start to get indoctrinated, which is supported by Vega hearing the Hum. The same reasons as above but SLIGHTLY more credible due to the poster of the missing earth child. People disagree with Theory 2 for the same reasons as theory 1.

Theory A is what I like to call the "Ilos Run" theory, that you're ID is full blown on the shuttle as soon as you leave the shuttle. This theory concludes that the shuttle was blown up at some point, that you were buried beneath rubble, and harbinger is trying to indoctrinate you to retrieve the body. It is supported by the dreamy quality of the run itself, and the lack of squadmates following you, soon as the ID gets stronger, you go full on dream mode. This is to compensate for the "Dream Trees" at the very beginning of the run

Theory B is that your full blown indoctrination is not until you get pwnt by the laser. and that at that point you are passed out at the crucible, and Harbinger is doing what he has always wanted, (ID of Shep) This is supported due to the realistic look of the run down the hill.

(Mix and match 1 and 2 with A and

Anything I forget?

Hmm...after reading most of the thread and playing the game for the second time and after some beer thinking time it all makes sense. The last part may well be a fabrication to fool Shepard
Nobody else has seen the kid, and neither Anderson or Ashley ever talk about him so it well could be a fabrication of Shepard mind. Also as he get in the shuttle of just military personell nobody gives him a hand or notices him, which is kinda strange. Then all these dreams where you hear the voices of all the people you have lost, but then why this kid is so important as to appear every time a big event happens. Doesn't make sense either

Then there is the hum Vega mentions, possible signs of a reaper device. If I recall correctly EDI mentioned calibrating the Reaper IFF...so it's still onboard and it could well be the cause of this.

The all the inconsistencies on the Citadel. How the hell did Anderson got to the console before Shepard if there is just one way and even if we consider the moving walls option it doubtful it happened so quickly . Then how did get to the Citadel, he was running behind you yet no one survived. We heard that on the radio and there's no sign of you team mates. The 1M1 signs and the look of the Citadel reminded me of the Shadow Broker ship, and how conviently you have been transported just where you needed to be and not some random spot on the Citadel. TIM seems real enough though, but then it's perfectly possible the Reapers found him while he was sneaking on the Citadel and integrated him so they can make a very convincing reprentation of him.

Then the choices and how they are given, Paragon colours on control and shows the TIM...and synthesis (basicaly uniting with the Reapers) and then Destroy. Also in the kids voice, I heard Harbringer's voice...or a very similar tone to that of a Reaper.

Now if we assume Shepard was being indoctrinated and the ending was just the fabrication of his mind, and by rejecting Reaper control he finally awakes where and when he awakes. In London during the last push or maybe even before?

Now Shepard dies in the beginning of the Second and he's recontructed, after being spaced and making re-entry into the atmosphere with his armor if IRC. Suppose the events of ME2 and all DLCs are real then Shepard awakes in ME3.

After being incapacited by Object Rho and blowing up the Alpha relay Shepard returns to the Alliance and surrenders the Normandy. Now if we assume the child has always been a fabrication in Shepard mind as a very subdle Reaper indoctrination technique we can assume it begins with Object Rho, so when Shepard is looking out the mirror the kid is not really there. Could it be that Shepard was "killed" in the very beginning? I know there are two things that would go strongly againts this crazy theory which are the fact that Shepard was wearing armor and the dog tags that are given back to the player by Anderson before leaving Earth. But suppose the whole game was just the Reaper indoctrination, not just the last part but the WHOLE game was just in Shepards mind while he's buried after the Reaper attack. I know it seems crazy but what if?

Now if this were to be true this would be the ending would be truly impressive.

[ArkkAngel007]

Miss Vader wrote...

I posted this early- but due to intense postings i shall re-post

Anyone else think that Shepard IS the catalyst? Makes the voice synch with the boy make more sense

Shepard is the catalyst.  That's why he is the only one to take action.  And, don't take my word soley on this, I do believe it was stated that Shepard was the catalyst in the first script mined from the beta leak last year.

[Golferguy758]

TcomJ wrote...

lil_89 wrote...

TcomJ wrote...

I know how bad and disappointing it is, but don't run away from the fact that it is a bad writing.

It's like you read Harry Potter, 7 of them, and then JK Rowling tells you at the end of the last paragraph that this is all just a dream LOL

No, it is actually like Voldemort was in Harry's mind, and made him believe Sirius was in danger to lure him to the ministry of magic, so yeah, J.K Rowling totally used the same effect to create a twist, and it was awesome. Check your facts before comparing

Oh my god, it's a freaking analogy and it's for the ending!!!! The point is it's a freaking lazy ass bad written ending.

And you are the one that has to get the fact right because that didn't happen in the last 2 min or the last paragraph of the book, did it? -"-

the ending was like "The wand refused to kill the one to whom it had allegiance, further
protecting Harry. During the duel, Harry refuses to use the killing
curse and even encourages Voldemort to feel remorse, one known way to
restore Voldemort's shattered soul. Voldemort dies when his own killing
curse backfires; he and his Death Eaters are finally defeated. The wizarding world is able to live in peace once more."

....If I were to add "sorry, suck to be you, this is all just a dream hahaaa~~~" to that last page.... it will give the same outrage of the fan effect as well duh

Except the "ending" wasn't the actual ending. If you actually read the thread you'd know that by now.

[cyric085]

2_BR4ZIL_2 wrote...

FrostByte-GER wrote...

Also...has anybody noticed, that the godchild says "wake up" only on high ems scores? I heared in my ending(3000ems) "Why are you here" there was no "wake up". Now I watched the best ending on YT. The child says "wake up".

But now, watch this: www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlyGL9Cqsxw#t=08m40s
And compare it with this vid:

Heared it? Another proof for the indoctrination theory!!!

Funny, you will only live through the Destroy ending with high points right? Amazing find Mr. FrostByte!

pretty clear. if you have enough forces they will hold the reapers off long enough so you can wake up from your "dream" (if you chose the "red pill" ofc)

[BadlyBrowned]

SomeoneStoleMyName wrote...

 Yet the destory ending is the only ending shepard can live in and requires the most ems to get that scene if shepard breathing while lying on rubble. 

There is a saying that goes "Those who fear death cannot escape it"

I like how the option that will kill Shepard will save him. With no fear of death, and an absolute resolve to kill the reapers - he is strong enough to survive the manipulating deceiving little brat. God I love it.

Well, Shepard dies in all the possible endings, but in Destroy it is the only ending where he can "wake up" if the player has enough EMS points. 

[Novouto]

BadlyBrowned wrote...

RE: The Player indoctrination Theory of the OP. Sort of rambling on, but here we go:

Indoctrination is suppose to sominate one's free will. Both Saren and TIM were shown to have very powerful wills, enough to resist the indoctrination process for a time, but ultimately succumb. 
Shepard is different though, Shepard actually has NO free will. Shepard is *our* avatar, his will is our will. Bioware could write up a whole bunch of different stuff to do to Shepard to convey Reapers attempts at indoctrinating him, but Reaper indoctrination simply does not work for Shepard because ultimately Shepard will is bound to the whims of the player.

Thus, with the "crucible" being a test, indoctrination being the domination of one's free will, and with the players being the source of Shepard's "free" will, it makes sense to me that the Reaper God Child's sudden appearence serves as a test of wills, the Reapers versus the Player. Shepard appears to be on the cusp of entering the Citadel and defeating the Reapers when he is hit with a laser. Could it be that this attempt at indoctrinating Shepard/The Player serves as the Reapers last gasp at avoiding their own extinction? At this point, the only real thing that could prevent Shepard from not destroying the Reapers is, well, you. So, like the Player Indoctrination Theory states, these last few minutes of the game perhaps serve as a way for the player to expierence just what it is like to come under the influence of indoctrination. That Shepard only "wakes up" in the destroy ending seems very telling right there, to me. 

Yeah, it's a huge stretch, but what the hell, it makes more sense than taking the endings at face value, imo.

That is pretty meta, but makes a hell of a lot more sense than what we got.

[JediNg]

I don't know why people are 'wow'ing about Jennifer Hale and Mark Meer's voices speaking at the same time as the Catalyst? Is there something I'm missing here that is robbing me of a revelation?

[BlackDragonBane]

Golferguy758 wrote...

TcomJ wrote...

lil_89 wrote...

TcomJ wrote...

I know how bad and disappointing it is, but don't run away from the fact that it is a bad writing.

It's like you read Harry Potter, 7 of them, and then JK Rowling tells you at the end of the last paragraph that this is all just a dream LOL

No, it is actually like Voldemort was in Harry's mind, and made him believe Sirius was in danger to lure him to the ministry of magic, so yeah, J.K Rowling totally used the same effect to create a twist, and it was awesome. Check your facts before comparing

Oh my god, it's a freaking analogy and it's for the ending!!!! The point is it's a freaking lazy ass bad written ending.

And you are the one that has to get the fact right because that didn't happen in the last 2 min or the last paragraph of the book, did it? -"-

the ending was like "The wand refused to kill the one to whom it had allegiance, further
protecting Harry. During the duel, Harry refuses to use the killing
curse and even encourages Voldemort to feel remorse, one known way to
restore Voldemort's shattered soul. Voldemort dies when his own killing
curse backfires; he and his Death Eaters are finally defeated. The wizarding world is able to live in peace once more."

....If I were to add "sorry, suck to be you, this is all just a dream hahaaa~~~" to that last page.... it will give the same outrage of the fan effect as well duh

Except the "ending" wasn't the actual ending. If you actually read the thread you'd know that by now.

^ An internet to you. TcomJ, you should read the OP before making comments like that.

[LastChanceofgod]

 Being a lurker here for the past several days and reading probably half the pages, I'd thought I'd throw in my two cents:

To some degree-We got it right. The devs are teasing us, and they simply wouldn't if there wasn't some degree of truth in what we are saying. Originally, my way around this argument was just pure and simple "Laziness" but, realizing that there are SO many mistakes, I doubt they would over look all of them, which makes these mistakes not mistakes, but something done intentionally (And that 1M1 thing is pretty suspicious) and for the synthesis thing, the explanation is simple. Even assuming that the dream had some impact on the world outside, it would still combine the Reapers with all organic life leading to a very hefty and large form of indoctrination, but assuming it had nothing to do with it, it's just Harbringer trying to appeal to Shepard's logic since that was the only way presented that would save everyone, and this is only presented because he sees Shepard and his frowing force as more of a threat.

And to once and all disproove any doubt that Shepard somehow survived the fall from space: Even if the Citadel had a field around it letting people breathe, once it blew up THAT would've been gone. So not only would he have to survive a war zone battlefield with the immense heat and pressure falling back down to earth's atmosphere, he'd have to do it without any air.

And I'm sorry for my horrible username, I made this account a few years back and wanted to put something dumb, since I assumed I wouldn't use it (God danged Origin!)

[FugitiveMind]

BadlyBrowned wrote...

SomeoneStoleMyName wrote...

 Yet the destory ending is the only ending shepard can live in and requires the most ems to get that scene if shepard breathing while lying on rubble. 

There is a saying that goes "Those who fear death cannot escape it"

I like how the option that will kill Shepard will save him. With no fear of death, and an absolute resolve to kill the reapers - he is strong enough to survive the manipulating deceiving little brat. God I love it.

Well, Shepard dies in all the possible endings, but in Destroy it is the only ending where he can "wake up" if the player has enough EMS points. 

You know, those nifty points you're supposed to be able to get enough of without touching the multiplayer, except that there's no way to get enough of them without tying in some external source to your single player game...

[lil_89]

PDesign wrote...

krystalevenstar wrote...

lil_89 wrote...

PDesign wrote...

krystalevenstar wrote...

Again 2:23 - 2:25 when the line 'You have hope, more than you think' is said, it's very easy to hear femshep is the one saying 'think'

Extracted

dl.dropbox.com/u/26913187/end003_catalyst_m_D_Int.033.ogg

wow, that sound like jennifer hale to me! not too sure about meer though

A better example of when Meer talks can be found at: 3:53 - 3:58, when he says 'You will die, you will control us, but you will lose everything you have'

Here
dl.dropbox.com/u/26913187/end003_catalyst_m_D_Int.051.ogg

Wow indeed! Thanks and if thats not meer, then i don't know. All the pieces in the puzzle are fitting perfectly together huh

[zezia]

2_BR4ZIL_2 wrote...

FrostByte-GER wrote...

Also...has anybody noticed, that the godchild says "wake up" only on high ems scores? I heared in my ending(3000ems) "Why are you here" there was no "wake up". Now I watched the best ending on YT. The child says "wake up".

But now, watch this: www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlyGL9Cqsxw#t=08m40s
And compare it with this vid:

Heared it? Another proof for the indoctrination theory!!!

Funny, you will only live through the Destroy ending with high points right? Amazing find Mr. FrostByte!

i have a idea maybe it is a squad mate you took with you on the run to the relay and is telling you to walk up only if you have high enough ems but if you have lower ems them your sqaud mates are dead and it is only the child talking to you

Modifié par zezia, 13 mars 2012 - 12:53 .

[GrumpyM00SE]

I've been here since this thread was made. I get behind during the day, and i have to catch up at night. This is some good stuff!

[Rahabzu]

TcomJ wrote...

lil_89 wrote...

TcomJ wrote...

I know how bad and disappointing it is, but don't run away from the fact that it is a bad writing.

It's like you read Harry Potter, 7 of them, and then JK Rowling tells you at the end of the last paragraph that this is all just a dream LOL

No, it is actually like Voldemort was in Harry's mind, and made him believe Sirius was in danger to lure him to the ministry of magic, so yeah, J.K Rowling totally used the same effect to create a twist, and it was awesome. Check your facts before comparing

Oh my god, it's a freaking analogy and it's for the ending!!!! The point is it's a freaking lazy ass bad written ending.

And you are the one that has to get the fact right because that didn't happen in the last 2 min or the last paragraph of the book, did it? -"-

the ending was like "The wand refused to kill the one to whom it had allegiance, further
protecting Harry. During the duel, Harry refuses to use the killing
curse and even encourages Voldemort to feel remorse, one known way to
restore Voldemort's shattered soul. Voldemort dies when his own killing
curse backfires; he and his Death Eaters are finally defeated. The wizarding world is able to live in peace once more."

....If I were to add "sorry, suck to be you, this is all just a dream hahaaa~~~" to that last page.... it will give the same outrage of the fan effect as well duh

STOP DERAILING THE THREAD AND ADVERTISING YOUR END IN THIS THREAD. Thank you.

[Kumekerion]

Another thought;

I thought it was odd that TIm goes down the exact same way as Saren did (At first I thought it was lazy writing) but you don't fight him. Wouldn't harbinger just take direct control of TIM like Sovereign did to Saren?