Aller au contenu

Photo

Was the ending a hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory


57139 réponses à ce sujet

#56226
Simon_Says

Simon_Says
  • Members
  • 1 164 messages

Meatus wrote...

Adambomb1222 wrote...

Any amazing revelations today folks?


I thought so. ;______; But nobody seems to really think much of this screenshot... reflections of trees in the Catalyst chamber area.

I desperately wish someone would confirm this, since it appears to be a Flycam angle, and I don't have it on PC, so I can't confirm it for myself.

*snip*


It's real. During the Catalyst convo, during the camera pans over Destroy and Control you can see the reflections very easily.

Modifié par Simon_Says, 12 mai 2012 - 06:55 .


#56227
MaximizedAction

MaximizedAction
  • Members
  • 3 293 messages

Meatus wrote...

Adambomb1222 wrote...

Any amazing revelations today folks?


I thought so. ;______; But nobody seems to really think much of this screenshot... reflections of trees in the Catalyst chamber area.

I desperately wish someone would confirm this, since it appears to be a Flycam angle, and I don't have it on PC, so I can't confirm it for myself.

Posted Image


I think this is a good confirmation: www.youtube.com/watch

#56228
byne

byne
  • Members
  • 7 811 messages

Rosewind wrote...

byne wrote...

Rosewind wrote...

Don't recall ever seeing her does she only appear when ash is alive?


Probably.


Okie Dokie I always Kill her can't stand her, annoyed that in a convo with Liara you talk about missing her and I am sitting here going Noooo I don't .....


Yeah, that convo annoys me, because I dont wanna lie to Liara and say I'm not thinking of anyone in specific, but I also dont want to lie and say I miss Kaidan.

#56229
MaximizedAction

MaximizedAction
  • Members
  • 3 293 messages

byne wrote...

Rosewind wrote...

byne wrote...

Rosewind wrote...

Don't recall ever seeing her does she only appear when ash is alive?


Probably.


Okie Dokie I always Kill her can't stand her, annoyed that in a convo with Liara you talk about missing her and I am sitting here going Noooo I don't .....


Yeah, that convo annoys me, because I dont wanna lie to Liara and say I'm not thinking of anyone in specific, but I also dont want to lie and say I miss Kaidan.


:D Exactly my string of thought during that scene. Had to choose the 'renegade' option.

Posted Image

Modifié par MaximizedAction, 12 mai 2012 - 06:59 .


#56230
Meatus

Meatus
  • Members
  • 233 messages

MaximizedAction wrote...

Meatus wrote...

Adambomb1222 wrote...

Any amazing revelations today folks?


I thought so. ;______; But nobody seems to really think much of this screenshot... reflections of trees in the Catalyst chamber area.

I desperately wish someone would confirm this, since it appears to be a Flycam angle, and I don't have it on PC, so I can't confirm it for myself.

Posted Image


I think this is a good confirmation: www.youtube.com/watch


WOOOHOOHOO! Thank you!!!
This has to be the most substantial find I've seen! :D

#56231
Simon_Says

Simon_Says
  • Members
  • 1 164 messages

draken-heart wrote...

DJBare wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

i agree that it may be a hallucination, but did anyone think that just maybe, it is just because Shepard is losing blood and not Indoctrination?

This is a probability, but it's also likely that the reapers are using this weakened state to indoctrinate Shepard, in Retribution the reapers had to put Grayson to sleep to further indoctrinate him, while awake he was able to fight the process, at least on a mental level, while Grayson slept they went further into his thought processes taking more control.


the red ending Kind of throws IT out the window because normally sleeping reduses the use of braincells to minimum meaning Shepard has to be somewhat concious to be able to make that choice.


Except that's not even true. During sleep, the brain is still incredibly active, though of course not constantly. Recall that the ending sequence is broken up by two major transitions.

#56232
MegumiAzusa

MegumiAzusa
  • Members
  • 4 238 messages

Simon_Says wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

DJBare wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

i agree that it may be a hallucination, but did anyone think that just maybe, it is just because Shepard is losing blood and not Indoctrination?

This is a probability, but it's also likely that the reapers are using this weakened state to indoctrinate Shepard, in Retribution the reapers had to put Grayson to sleep to further indoctrinate him, while awake he was able to fight the process, at least on a mental level, while Grayson slept they went further into his thought processes taking more control.


the red ending Kind of throws IT out the window because normally sleeping reduses the use of braincells to minimum meaning Shepard has to be somewhat concious to be able to make that choice.


Except that's not even true. During sleep, the brain is still incredibly active, though of course not constantly. Recall that the ending sequence is broken up by two major transitions.

Also don't forget you can control dreams.

#56233
DirtyPhoenix

DirtyPhoenix
  • Members
  • 3 938 messages

Meatus wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

Meatus wrote...

Adambomb1222 wrote...

Any amazing revelations today folks?


I thought so. ;______; But nobody seems to really think much of this screenshot... reflections of trees in the Catalyst chamber area.

I desperately wish someone would confirm this, since it appears to be a Flycam angle, and I don't have it on PC, so I can't confirm it for myself.

Posted Image


I think this is a good confirmation: www.youtube.com/watch


WOOOHOOHOO! Thank you!!!
This has to be the most substantial find I've seen! :D


I'm a bit suspecious about this one. If such reflections were visible with normal cam (correct word? :P), I'd have definitely considered it a big pointer towards IT, but using flycam.. Isn't it possible these are leftovers from abandoned plans or something? They left it in place since they knew it wont be visible much with normal cam ( I know they are still visible, but only if you look really hard).

#56234
Stigweird85

Stigweird85
  • Members
  • 733 messages

DJBare wrote...

I'm certain most here remember the child photo on the citadel
Posted ImageI wondered about this too does look kinda familiar 
But how many notice the ginger headed woman appears to be transfixed by it?
Posted Image
On a side note, there's an easter egg in the top image, the photo of the man in white armor was the original concept for the default male Shepard.



#56235
balance5050

balance5050
  • Members
  • 5 245 messages

pirate1802 wrote...

Meatus wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

Meatus wrote...

Adambomb1222 wrote...

Any amazing revelations today folks?


I thought so. ;______; But nobody seems to really think much of this screenshot... reflections of trees in the Catalyst chamber area.

I desperately wish someone would confirm this, since it appears to be a Flycam angle, and I don't have it on PC, so I can't confirm it for myself.

Posted Image


I think this is a good confirmation: www.youtube.com/watch


WOOOHOOHOO! Thank you!!!
This has to be the most substantial find I've seen! :D


I'm a bit suspecious about this one. If such reflections were visible with normal cam (correct word? :P), I'd have definitely considered it a big pointer towards IT, but using flycam.. Isn't it possible these are leftovers from abandoned plans or something? They left it in place since they knew it wont be visible much with normal cam ( I know they are still visible, but only if you look really hard).


There are three different cube maps and the trees get bigger and brighter as you gain more EMS, if they were just left over there would only be one and it woudn't change based on how many choices you have. One cube map I could maybe attribute to discarde plans, but 3?

http://i.imgur.com/RIIzj.jpg 

Posted Image 

#56236
draken-heart

draken-heart
  • Members
  • 4 009 messages

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Simon_Says wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

DJBare wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

i agree that it may be a hallucination, but did anyone think that just maybe, it is just because Shepard is losing blood and not Indoctrination?

This is a probability, but it's also likely that the reapers are using this weakened state to indoctrinate Shepard, in Retribution the reapers had to put Grayson to sleep to further indoctrinate him, while awake he was able to fight the process, at least on a mental level, while Grayson slept they went further into his thought processes taking more control.


the red ending Kind of throws IT out the window because normally sleeping reduses the use of braincells to minimum meaning Shepard has to be somewhat concious to be able to make that choice.


Except that's not even true. During sleep, the brain is still incredibly active, though of course not constantly. Recall that the ending sequence is broken up by two major transitions.

Also don't forget you can control dreams.


the hallucination as i said in my first post on this page may have been caused by blood loss and the reapers manipulated it, not real indoctrination but suggestion in favor of the reapers.

my theory is that hallucination is caused not by reapers, but by blood loss. not that it is all blood loss but that the reapers manipulate his emotions and that the choices reflect those emotions

#56237
TSA_383

TSA_383
  • Members
  • 2 013 messages

Adambomb1222 wrote...

Any amazing revelations today folks?

http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/10973597

I was very VERY impressed by this if that's anything.


DJBare wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

This is
actually not quite correct. All internal files for the XBox are on the
MS servers, also for certification. The reason why you as a normal user
can't see them are just some flags in the entry for the software and the
status of your account. Same goes for Origin or Steam. For example when
you work at EA you get an EA Origin account that usually can only be
accessed from registered PCs that has access to all EA games, even the
ones not yet released. I don't know the exact procedure for XBox but
from what I heard it was that companies can create a group and users in
that group have access to these beta games. Now if someone set the flag
wrong for a game it's publicly available and not just for that specific
group.

Perhaps, but still does not explain why the writers script
was embedded in the beta, there were just too many things missed by the
time the beta was released, the lack of textures and lip movement being
the most notable, I cannot see microsoft releasing this unless they
were told specifically it was for beta testers, and everyone knows leaks
come from some beta testers, the developers are well aware that despite
NDA's beta's get leaked.


Here's some other interesting stuff from the leak - the catalyst's original dialogue.

Here it's a little more.... obvious, that he wishes you to choose synthesis... Y'know, like sovereign, and harbinger, and saren :lol:

<id>706388</id>
        <position>42501</position>
        <data>This is the Citadel. Where I live.</data>
    </string>
    <string>
        <id>706389</id>
        <position>42502</position>
        <data>I am the Catalyst.</data>
    </string>
    <string>
        <id>706390</id>
        <position>42503</position>
        <data>An honest mistake. The Citadel is an extension of me.</data>
    </string>
    <string>
        <id>706391</id>
        <position>42504</position>
        <data>You must be quick. The war still rages out there.</data>
    </string>
    <string>
        <id>-2146777256</id>
        <position>42505</position>
        <data>-1</data>
    </string>
    <string>
        <id>706393</id>
        <position>42506</position>
        <data>The Crucible is a tool, much like the Reapers. And tools need a user.</data>
    </string>
    <string>
        <id>706394</id>
        <position>42507</position>
        <data>You are the user of the Crucible, as I am the user of the Reapers.</data>
    </string>
    <string>
        <id>706395</id>
        <position>42508</position>
        <data>I was created eons ago to solve a problem. The Reapers are my solution.</data>
    </string>
    <string>
        <id>706396</id>
        <position>42509</position>
        <data>The Reapers main purpose is to prevent organics from creating an AI so powerful that it would overtake them and destroy them.</data>
    </string>
    <string>
        <id>706397</id>
        <position>42510</position>
        <data>Not exactly. The Reapers harvest fully developed civilizations, leaving the lesser ones intact.</data>
    </string>
    <string>
        <id>706398</id>
        <position>42511</position>
        <data>And the essence of each harvested civilzation is stored, forever, in Reaper form.</data>
    </string>
    <string>
        <id>706399</id>
        <position>42512</position>
        <data>An important distinction.</data>
    </string>
    <string>
        <id>706400</id>
        <position>42513</position>
        <data>An answer to a choice.</data>
    </string>
    <string>
        <id>706401</id>
        <position>42514</position>
        <data>I can of harness and direct the energy of the Crucible.</data>
    </string>
    <string>
        <id>706402</id>
        <position>42515</position>
        <data>But you must choose how to release it.</data>
    </string>
    <string>
        <id>706403</id>
        <position>42516</position>
        <data>And you must decide the form it's energy will take.</data>
    </string>
    <string>
        <id>706404</id>
        <position>42517</position>
        <data>The energy can be released as a destructive force. Organics will prevail at our expense. All synthetic life will be destroyed.</data>
    </string>
    <string>
        <id>706405</id>
        <position>42518</position>
        <data>As will much of the technology your kind rely on.</data>
    </string>
    <string>
        <id>706406</id>
        <position>42519</position>
        <data>Including the relays you will use to dispense the energy.</data>
    </string>
    <string>
        <id>706407</id>
        <position>42520</position>
        <data>You may harness the energy. Use it to circumvent my control of the Reapers.</data>
    </string>
    <string>
        <id>706408</id>
        <position>42521</position>
        <data>Correct... though he could never have taken control, as we already controlled him.</data>
    </string>
    <string>
        <id>706409</id>
        <position>42522</position>
        <data>You will subvert my existence. You will control the Reapers. You will continue to seek an answer to problem.</data>
    </string>
    <string>
        <id>706410</id>
        <position>42523</position>
        <data>Correct.</data>
    </string>
    <string>
        <id>706411</id>
        <position>42524</position>
        <data>There is another choice.</data>
    </string>
    <string>
        <id>706412</id>
        <position>42525</position>
        <data>My ultimate goal, the exact solution to the singularity problem, is to combine the synthetic and the organic.</data>
    </string>
    <string>
        <id>706413</id>
        <position>42526</position>
        <data>Much like yourself. You are already a melding of both.</data>
    </string>
    <string>
        <id>706414</id>
        <position>42527</position>
        <data>If you choose so, your energy, combined with that of the Crucible, can be used to convert, and transform each of our kind.</data>
    </string>
    <string>
        <id>706415</id>
        <position>42528</position>
        <data>We, will become like you, and organic life will become like us. And the problem of Technological Singularity will be solved.</data>
    </string>
    <string>
        <id>706416</id>
        <position>42529</position>
        <data>But you must choose.</data>
    </string>
    <string>
        <id>706417</id>
        <position>42530</position>
        <data>But you must act. It must be your volition that guides my actions.</data>
    </string>
    <string>
        <id>706418</id>
        <position>42531</position>
        <data>Go. If you falter now, the cycle will continue. I will not act as Catalyst if you do not act first.</data>
    </string>
    <string>
        <id>-2146777229</id>
        <position>42532</position>
        <data>-1</data>
    </string>
    <string>
        <id>-2146777228</id>
        <position>42533</position>
        <data>-1</data>
    </string>
    <string>
        <id>706421</id>
        <position>42534</position>
        <data>What... is this?</data>
    </string>
    <string>
        <id>706422</id>
        <position>42535</position>
        <data>And who are you, exactly?</data>
    </string>
    <string>
        <id>706423</id>
        <position>42536</position>
        <data>I thought the Citadel was the Catalyst.</data>
    </string>
    <string>
        <id>-2146777224</id>
        <position>42537</position>
        <data>-1</data>
    </string>
    <string>
        <id>-2146777223</id>
        <position>42538</position>
        <data>-1</data>
    </string>
    <string>
        <id>706426</id>
        <position>42539</position>
        <data>But, the Crucible... it didn't work?</data>
    </string>
    <string>
        <id>-2146777221</id>
        <position>42540</position>
        <data>-1</data>
    </string>
    <string>
        <id>706428</id>
        <position>42541</position>
        <data>I don't...</data>
    </string>
    <string>
        <id>706429</id>
        <position>42542</position>
        <data>What?</data>
    </string>
    <string>
        <id>706430</id>
        <position>42543</position>
        <data>But that's exactly what you're doing.</data>
    </string>
    <string>
        <id>-2146777217</id>
        <position>42544</position>
        <data>-1</data>
    </string>
    <string>
        <id>-2146777216</id>
        <position>42545</position>
        <data>-1</data>
    </string>
    <string>
        <id>706433</id>
        <position>42546</position>
        <data>What is it you want from me?</data>
    </string>
    <string>
        <id>-2146777214</id>
        <position>42547</position>
        <data>-1</data>
    </string>
    <string>
        <id>-2146777213</id>
        <position>42548</position>
        <data>-1</data>
    </string>
    <string>
        <id>-2146777212</id>
        <position>42549</position>
        <data>-1</data>
    </string>
    <string>
        <id>706437</id>
        <position>42550</position>
        <data>I don't understand.</data>
    </string>
    <string>
        <id>-2146777210</id>
        <position>42551</position>
        <data>-1</data>
    </string>
    <string>
        <id>-2146777209</id>
        <position>42552</position>
        <data>-1</data>
    </string>
    <string>
        <id>706440</id>
        <position>42553</position>
        <data>And the other choice?</data>
    </string>
    <string>
        <id>706441</id>
        <position>42554</position>
        <data>Control? So the Illusive Man was right.</data>
    </string>
    <string>
        <id>706442</id>
        <position>42555</position>
        <data>And what happens to me?</data>
    </string>
    <string>
        <id>706443</id>
        <position>42556</position>
        <data>But the Reapers will obey me?</data>
    </string>
    <string>
        <id>-2146777204</id>
        <position>42557</position>
        <data>-1</data>
    </string>
    <string>
        <id>-2146777203</id>
        <position>42558</position>
        <data>-1</data>
    </string>
    <string>
        <id>706446</id>
        <position>42559</position>
        <data>Combine?</data>
    </string>
    <string>
        <id>-2146777201</id>
        <position>42560</position>
        <data>-1</data>
    </string>
    <string>
        <id>-2146777200</id>
        <position>42561</position>
        <data>-1</data>
    </string>
    <string>
        <id>-2146777199</id>
        <position>42562</position>
        <data>-1</data>
    </string>
    <string>
        <id>706450</id>
        <position>42563</position>
        <data>So, I just...</data>

^It's a subtle change, but I prefer the dialogue now, it's more ambiguous, and it gives the illusion of a less strongly influenced course...

SS2Dante wrote...

byne wrote...


>Right click image
>Copy image location
>Paste image location inside image tags, like so:
Posted Image

I've never once had that fail on me.


Fails on me every time. It always works, in the end but takes around 3 edits to do so, with me typing the same thing each time.


Hasn't ever worked for me :crying:

draken-heart wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...


Aside
from this being a story, and lots of precedence for people making
decisions in dreams in fiction, the choice is subconcious, we're only
seeing the visualisation of it.


which is why
hallucination by blood loss is just as viable as IT. at the end when the
Citadel looks wacky, it could be that Shepard, suffering from the blood
loss, is hallucinating all the places he/she been to and attrbuting
parts of those to the Citadel (representing his subconcious mind)

@Hoodaticus: did not know only one does that, but still Blood loss hallucination works just as well as IT do you not think.


Except
IT is supported by precedent events and lore, foreshadowing, and
context. I'm not saying blood loss isnt a possible factor, heck it most
likely is, but a secondary factor, at best. 


it
could be that the reapers are using a hallucination caused by Blood
loss, manipulating it so Shepard does not think that the reapers are
involved in it

Blood loss causes hallucination, reapers manipulate it. Simple, right?

It's possible (likely even) that the beam strike knocks shepard out and combined with the extreme stress makes him/her much easier to manipulate. I still think it's likely to be a secondary thing though, since we see the other indoctrination symptoms all the time in-game.

#56238
Rosewind

Rosewind
  • Members
  • 1 801 messages
Whats a good img uploader host thingy cause photobucket is screwing around with me wont let me upload of my computer.

#56239
balance5050

balance5050
  • Members
  • 5 245 messages

Rosewind wrote...

Whats a good img uploader host thingy cause photobucket is screwing around with me wont let me upload of my computer.


http://imgur.com/ 

#56240
gunslinger_ruiz

gunslinger_ruiz
  • Members
  • 1 650 messages
I posted more screens of the breath scene last night, outlining some of the shapes of the unidentifed objects.

Link here

#56241
Rosewind

Rosewind
  • Members
  • 1 801 messages

balance5050 wrote...

Rosewind wrote...

Whats a good img uploader host thingy cause photobucket is screwing around with me wont let me upload of my computer.


http://imgur.com/ 


Cant I make an account and set my album to private?

#56242
balance5050

balance5050
  • Members
  • 5 245 messages

Rosewind wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Rosewind wrote...

Whats a good img uploader host thingy cause photobucket is screwing around with me wont let me upload of my computer.


http://imgur.com/ 


Cant I make an account and set my album to private?


Probably but I don't know. You probably need to make an account.

#56243
balance5050

balance5050
  • Members
  • 5 245 messages
Who's got that "IT can be explained with only cutscenes" thing? Can someone link it for me?

please;)

Modifié par balance5050, 12 mai 2012 - 08:32 .


#56244
Rosewind

Rosewind
  • Members
  • 1 801 messages
Thats better had to restart computer for it to work lol

Liara Wallpaper cause i was bored

i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll291/Rosewind_bucket/LiaraWall.png

Modifié par Rosewind, 12 mai 2012 - 08:49 .


#56245
KellanC

KellanC
  • Members
  • 25 messages
I was at Thinkgeek.com yesterday and I was looking at their Giant Plush Microbes and noticed their interpretation of the brain cell is very Reaper like.........


Posted Image


Also, I just noticed I am Simon_says sig and that made my day.

#56246
gunslinger_ruiz

gunslinger_ruiz
  • Members
  • 1 650 messages

balance5050 wrote...

Who's got that "IT can be explained with only cutscenes" thing? Can someone link it for me?

please;)


I think you mean Arian Dynas, and I think you men this post http://social.biowar...3/1873#11747086
direct link

Or did you mean something else?

Modifié par gunslinger_ruiz, 12 mai 2012 - 08:37 .


#56247
gunslinger_ruiz

gunslinger_ruiz
  • Members
  • 1 650 messages

Rosewind wrote...

Well I was bored so I made a Liara wallpaper for all you liara lovers :P



Why did it get converted to a jpg..... one sec changing it


Me and my fellow liara lovers thank you.

#56248
Rosewind

Rosewind
  • Members
  • 1 801 messages

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Rosewind wrote...

Well I was bored so I made a Liara wallpaper for all you liara lovers :P



Why did it get converted to a jpg..... one sec changing it


Me and my fellow liara lovers thank you.


Gimmie a few minutes and i will upload the better quailty one Imgur keeps changing it to a jpg so it looks crap.

#56249
balance5050

balance5050
  • Members
  • 5 245 messages

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Who's got that "IT can be explained with only cutscenes" thing? Can someone link it for me?

please;)


I think you mean Arian Dynas, and I think you men this post http://social.biowar...3/1873#11747086

Or did you mean something else?


EXACTLY! thanks!

#56250
gunslinger_ruiz

gunslinger_ruiz
  • Members
  • 1 650 messages

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Who's got that "IT can be explained with only cutscenes" thing? Can someone link it for me?

please;)


I think you mean Arian Dynas, and I think you men this post http://social.biowar...3/1873#11747086
direct link

Or did you mean something else?


@balance5050
for some reason the hyper link wouldn't work so there it is above.