57139 réponses à ce sujet

[MegumiAzusa]

I actually wish there would be a way to save TIM, I always feel sorry for him.

[EpyonX3]

byne wrote...

HyperGlass wrote...

Wait doesn't the EMS reduction only happen if TIM kills himself? If so then the answer should be obvious.

How is it obvious? TIM is dead whether he kills himself or you shoot him. Why should it lower the EMS needed to survive destroy?

The to answer this question I'd say this. Shepard surviving, IT or literal is a mental thing. Knowing he saved Anderson gives him a mental boost, enabling him to survive the ending.

In a more literal sense, bioware probably rewards the player for saving anderson. Now the question is, can you have a low enough EMS to only get destroy but still get the breathe scene if you save anderson?

[Hawk227]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Hawk227....

Can you get by TIM if you let him execute Anderson (with less than 5k ems), or does he always kill Shepard?

I don't think that letting Anderson die affects you EMS at all, I think it just raises the threshold needed to see the breath scene.

EMS has nothing to do with TIM executing Anderson, your choices in the dialog does.

I realize that. I don't have MP so I've never had more than 3500 ems, so I don't know how it plays out. What I'm asking is whether EMS has anything to do with whether TIM kills Shepard, or if it is just a failure to trigger an interrupt.

Modifié par Hawk227, 12 mai 2012 - 11:10 .

[EpyonX3]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

I actually wish there would be a way to save TIM, I always feel sorry for him.

You could see a bit of that pity in Shepard's face just as he's about to pull the trigger. I think he did the right thing. He knows that if he continues, he'd just complicate the matter.

[MegumiAzusa]

EpyonX3 wrote...

byne wrote...

HyperGlass wrote...

Wait doesn't the EMS reduction only happen if TIM kills himself? If so then the answer should be obvious.

How is it obvious? TIM is dead whether he kills himself or you shoot him. Why should it lower the EMS needed to survive destroy?

The to answer this question I'd say this. Shepard surviving, IT or literal is a mental thing. Knowing he saved Anderson gives him a mental boost, enabling him to survive the ending.

In a more literal sense, bioware probably rewards the player for saving anderson. Now the question is, can you have a low enough EMS to only get destroy but still get the breathe scene if you save anderson?

No you can't, as you can see everything gets vaporized.
Also as said on the last page, I think that it's more the dialog Shep had with Anderson after the confrontation that gives her strength.

[MegumiAzusa]

Hawk227 wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Hawk227....

Can you get by TIM if you let him execute Anderson (with less than 5k ems), or does he always kill Shepard?

I don't think that letting Anderson die affects you EMS at all, I think it just raises the threshold needed to see the breath scene.

EMS has nothing to do with TIM executing Anderson, your choices in the dialog does.

I realize that. I don't have MP so I've never had more than 3500 ems, so I don't know how it plays out. What I'm asking is whether EMS has anything to do with whether TIM kills Shepard, or if it is just a failure to trigger an interrupt.

You can paragon talk him down like Saren, Anderson still dies.

[Hawk227]

EpyonX3 wrote...

byne wrote...

HyperGlass wrote...

Wait doesn't the EMS reduction only happen if TIM kills himself? If so then the answer should be obvious.

How is it obvious? TIM is dead whether he kills himself or you shoot him. Why should it lower the EMS needed to survive destroy?

The to answer this question I'd say this. Shepard surviving, IT or literal is a mental thing. Knowing he saved Anderson gives him a mental boost, enabling him to survive the ending.

In a more literal sense, bioware probably rewards the player for saving anderson. Now the question is, can you have a low enough EMS to only get destroy but still get the breathe scene if you save anderson?

No. Synthesis is triggered at ~2800 ems. The breath scene is triggered at 4000 ems (5k if Anderson is executed).

[TSA_383]

EpyonX3 wrote...

byne wrote...

HyperGlass wrote...

Wait doesn't the EMS reduction only happen if TIM kills himself? If so then the answer should be obvious.

How is it obvious? TIM is dead whether he kills himself or you shoot him. Why should it lower the EMS needed to survive destroy?

The to answer this question I'd say this. Shepard surviving, IT or literal is a mental thing. Knowing he saved Anderson gives him a mental boost, enabling him to survive the ending.

In a more literal sense, bioware probably rewards the player for saving anderson. Now the question is, can you have a low enough EMS to only get destroy but still get the breathe scene if you save anderson?

Afraid not.
To only get offered destroy you need EMS <1750 (epic phail) whereas for the "breathe" scene if anderson dies you need 5000 and if he's alive you need 4000.

[MegumiAzusa]

EpyonX3 wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

I actually wish there would be a way to save TIM, I always feel sorry for him.

You could see a bit of that pity in Shepard's face just as he's about to pull the trigger. I think he did the right thing. He knows that if he continues, he'd just complicate the matter.

I know, Shep also believes TIM is stronger than indoctrination, it is TIM who doesn't believe in himself anymore, and that is imo the saddest thing of all, and imo the thing Shep expresses with her face.

[HyperGlass]

byne wrote...

HyperGlass wrote...

Wait doesn't the EMS reduction only happen if TIM kills himself? If so then the answer should be obvious.

How is it obvious? TIM is dead whether he kills himself or you shoot him. Why should it lower the EMS needed to survive destroy?

Shepard's mental state is being more forced to take action against the indoctrinated side so wouldn't he/she be less resistant due to the intence pressure being forced upon Shepard. Talking TIM to death means you didn't really have to put any forced effort into the situation meaning you have more of a spark in you to resist and wake up.
Remember that Shep's mental state is fragmented and putting more pressure to resisit just drains you especially if you're near dead.
If you get what I mean. But lowered EMS requirements I think just means you are more resistant not weither TIM is dead but  how you dealth with him.

[EpyonX3]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

I actually wish there would be a way to save TIM, I always feel sorry for him.

You could see a bit of that pity in Shepard's face just as he's about to pull the trigger. I think he did the right thing. He knows that if he continues, he'd just complicate the matter.

I know, Shep also believes TIM is stronger than indoctrination, it is TIM who doesn't believe in himself anymore, and that is imo the saddest thing of all, and imo the thing Shep expresses with her face.

Yup. His face was like "No don't do it you're better than this!"

[HyperGlass]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

I actually wish there would be a way to save TIM, I always feel sorry for him.

Same but if IT is true he never died atleast since we never see him directly.
TIM is just awsome regardless:happy:

[byne]

HyperGlass wrote...

byne wrote...

HyperGlass wrote...

Wait doesn't the EMS reduction only happen if TIM kills himself? If so then the answer should be obvious.

How is it obvious? TIM is dead whether he kills himself or you shoot him. Why should it lower the EMS needed to survive destroy?

Shepard's mental state is being more forced to take action against the indoctrinated side so wouldn't he/she be less resistant due to the intence pressure being forced upon Shepard. Talking TIM to death means you didn't really have to put any forced effort into the situation meaning you have more of a spark in you to resist and wake up.
Remember that Shep's mental state is fragmented and putting more pressure to resisit just drains you especially if you're near dead.
If you get what I mean. But lowered EMS requirements I think just means you are more resistant not weither TIM is dead but  how you dealth with him.

Right, I understand how it effects whether you would survive in IT, what I'm wondering is how the people who take the endings at face value explain this. It makes no sense if it isnt IT.

[Hawk227]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Hawk227 wrote...

I realize that. I don't have MP so I've never had more than 3500 ems, so I don't know how it plays out. What I'm asking is whether EMS has anything to do with whether TIM kills Shepard, or if it is just a failure to trigger an interrupt.

You can paragon talk him down like Saren, Anderson still dies.

Does Anderson still bleed out next to Shepard after the "I'm proud of you" line?

If you don't talk TIM down, and don't renegade interrupt him before he shoots Anderson he executes him and (to my knowledge) says to Shepard "You dissapoint me Shepard" and then kills him/her. Critical Mission Failure. You're saying there are additional dialogue options AFTER he executes Anderson?

[EpyonX3]

Hawk227 wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Hawk227 wrote...

I realize that. I don't have MP so I've never had more than 3500 ems, so I don't know how it plays out. What I'm asking is whether EMS has anything to do with whether TIM kills Shepard, or if it is just a failure to trigger an interrupt.

You can paragon talk him down like Saren, Anderson still dies.

Does Anderson still bleed out next to Shepard after the "I'm proud of you" line?

If you don't talk TIM down, and don't renegade interrupt him before he shoots Anderson he executes him and (to my knowledge) says to Shepard "You dissapoint me Shepard" and then kills him/her. Critical Mission Failure. You're saying there are additional dialogue options AFTER he executes Anderson?

Yes. The same thing happens if you shoot TIM.

TIM says something about SHepard being a dissapointment just before the renegade interrupt.

[MegumiAzusa]

Hawk227 wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Hawk227 wrote...

I realize that. I don't have MP so I've never had more than 3500 ems, so I don't know how it plays out. What I'm asking is whether EMS has anything to do with whether TIM kills Shepard, or if it is just a failure to trigger an interrupt.

You can paragon talk him down like Saren, Anderson still dies.

Does Anderson still bleed out next to Shepard after the "I'm proud of you" line?

If you don't talk TIM down, and don't renegade interrupt him before he shoots Anderson he executes him and (to my knowledge) says to Shepard "You dissapoint me Shepard" and then kills him/her. Critical Mission Failure. You're saying there are additional dialogue options AFTER he executes Anderson?

No, Anderson will bleed out and TIM will be dead. The only thing that changes when TIM killed himself is that he doesn't say "Earth. I wish you could see it like I do, Shepard. It's so... perfect."

[Simon_Says]

christrek1982 wrote...

no what I'm getting at with the EMS is that it reprasent how many ships and men you have with you in the final battle for earth but if you have a score less than 4000+ then Shepherd dies anyway regarless of what you pick. if IT is valid and you pick distroy then shuldn't you get the shepherd breaths regardless of your EMS score

No. Think of it this way. Shepard is unconcious in front of the conduit. Harbinger's overhead. Without sufficient EMS, Shepard is going to be swatted if they resist the indoctrination attempt (or in very low EMS scenarios, the reapers are just stalling Shepard, they don't particularily care what happens). But in high-EMS scenarios, the war assets come into play by buying Shepard enough time to survive the encounter.

It's like the Suicide Mission but with a much higher success limit. The Suicide Mission could fail, or succeed at great cost. Only if you work your ass off beforehand are you going to manage to earn the best outcome.

[HyperGlass]

byne wrote...

Right, I understand how it effects whether you would survive in IT, what I'm wondering is how the people who take the endings at face value explain this. It makes no sense if it isnt IT.

I doesn't but if TIM killed himself.....I keep thinking back to how Soverign was killed because Sarren was killed. I keep thinking that the Reapers would have been weakened similiar to that.
TIM killing himself = he fought it off weaking the Reapers (my guess)
TIM not kiling himself = vice versa
Or am I missing out Anderson in this?

[TSA_383]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

I actually wish there would be a way to save TIM, I always feel sorry for him.

You could see a bit of that pity in Shepard's face just as he's about to pull the trigger. I think he did the right thing. He knows that if he continues, he'd just complicate the matter.

I know, Shep also believes TIM is stronger than indoctrination, it is TIM who doesn't believe in himself anymore, and that is imo the saddest thing of all, and imo the thing Shep expresses with her face.

I wonder if we'll see TIM make some kind of tragic sacrifice in the DLC - I think that could actually end up fitting with his character and it'd certainly make for an emotional scene...

http://social.biowar.../index/12017605
^By the way, thoughts on the "what if you didn't play arrival" debate going on in this thread?

[MegumiAzusa]

HyperGlass wrote...

byne wrote...

Right, I understand how it effects whether you would survive in IT, what I'm wondering is how the people who take the endings at face value explain this. It makes no sense if it isnt IT.

I doesn't but if TIM killed himself.....I keep thinking back to how Soverign was killed because Sarren was killed. I keep thinking that the Reapers would have been weakened similiar to that.
TIM killing himself = he fought it off weaking the Reapers (my guess)
TIM not kiling himself = vice versa
Or am I missing out Anderson in this?

As it's only bound to whether Shep is alive or not it doesn't affect the Reapers at all. As I said multiple times now, I believe it's what Anderson says that gives Shep strength.

[paxxton]

Garrus Vakarian: "So who likes my signature now?".

Modifié par paxxton, 12 mai 2012 - 11:26 .

[Simon_Says]

byne wrote...

Right, I understand how it effects whether you would survive in IT, what I'm wondering is how the people who take the endings at face value explain this. It makes no sense if it isnt IT.

Supporters of control or synthesis also tend to ignore the fact that the Destruction+Survival are the highest-tier endings available. It's especially odd when they try to pass off Synthesis as the best since it's the last one unlocked. <_<

[DJBare]

Hard to get the idea out of your heads that Anderson and TIM are real isn't it, that's indoctrination for you.

Modifié par DJBare, 12 mai 2012 - 11:36 .

[EpyonX3]

TSA_383 wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

I actually wish there would be a way to save TIM, I always feel sorry for him.

You could see a bit of that pity in Shepard's face just as he's about to pull the trigger. I think he did the right thing. He knows that if he continues, he'd just complicate the matter.

I know, Shep also believes TIM is stronger than indoctrination, it is TIM who doesn't believe in himself anymore, and that is imo the saddest thing of all, and imo the thing Shep expresses with her face.

I wonder if we'll see TIM make some kind of tragic sacrifice in the DLC - I think that could actually end up fitting with his character and it'd certainly make for an emotional scene...

http://social.biowar.../index/12017605
^By the way, thoughts on the "what if you didn't play arrival" debate going on in this thread?

You mean like him realizing what he did when he handed over the citadel to the reapers? I'd like to know what happened to his soldiers and everon on the Citadel. You can see a cerberus trooper hanging on one of the cables in the hallway.

[EpyonX3]

paxxton wrote...

Garrus Vakarian: "So who likes my signature now?".

Garrus Vakarian: "I'm Garrus Vakarian. And this is my rectum!"