57139 réponses à ce sujet

[Turtlicious]

http://imgur.com/guXnE

Price drop. LOL

[JediNg]

GoBioWareGo wrote...

After reading this i'm getting some hope for the ending.

The only problem i can see with this is that the theory hinges on Shepard surviving in the rubble (meaning that the whole thing was an indoctrination attempt) since that would be the only way for it to make sense.

The problem here is that if it really was just horrible writing that didn't make sense, the whole Shepard waking up in the rubble could just be another nonsensical part of the ending.

Then let us hope that it is not so lol.

[ceruleancrescent]

Reaper of Reapers wrote...

BadlyBrowned wrote...

RE: The Player indoctrination Theory of the OP. Sort of rambling on, but here we go:

Indoctrination is suppose to sominate one's free will. Both Saren and TIM were shown to have very powerful wills, enough to resist the indoctrination process for a time, but ultimately succumb. 
Shepard is different though, Shepard actually has NO free will. Shepard is *our* avatar, his will is our will. Bioware could write up a whole bunch of different stuff to do to Shepard to convey Reapers attempts at indoctrinating him, but Reaper indoctrination simply does not work for Shepard because ultimately Shepard will is bound to the whims of the player.

Thus, with the "crucible" being a test, indoctrination being the domination of one's free will, and with the players being the source of Shepard's "free" will, it makes sense to me that the Reaper God Child's sudden appearence serves as a test of wills, the Reapers versus the Player. Shepard appears to be on the cusp of entering the Citadel and defeating the Reapers when he is hit with a laser. Could it be that this attempt at indoctrinating Shepard/The Player serves as the Reapers last gasp at avoiding their own extinction? At this point, the only real thing that could prevent Shepard from not destroying the Reapers is, well, you. So, like the Player Indoctrination Theory states, these last few minutes of the game perhaps serve as a way for the player to expierence just what it is like to come under the influence of indoctrination. That Shepard only "wakes up" in the destroy ending seems very telling right there, to me. 

Yeah, it's a huge stretch, but what the hell, it makes more sense than taking the endings at face value, imo.

My brain has been splattered across my beautiful wall. It kind of reminds me of MGS2 where you had to pull out the controller and put it in port 2 so the boss wouldn't be able to predict your moves. It would only add to the mindf*** if this all turns out to be true. Actually, no matter what happens I think we all can agree that the ending is a total mindf***.

Also, I'd like to add that in the destroy ending where Shepard wakes up that you see that scene AFTER the Normandy crash lands. If it was before then it would mean something, but you see Shepard wake up AFTER so he just woke up from the dream/hallucination.

Lastly, I just wanted to say that, for the record, I picked Destroy on my first playthrough. I though about it limping from one choice to another and then I was like "why the f*** am I thinking even thinking about this? I came here to destroy them."

All of this

[Priss Blackburne]

Reading this thread and thinking about the ideas. I have gone from believing the franchise is dead to me to thinking it could be the best RPG I have ever experienced.

[krystalevenstar]

xDarkspace wrote...

That's interesting, but it seems like it's just MP characters

[Pyewacket]

One thing that always stood out to me, is the fact that the "oily shadows" show up when TIM walks up behind, and before then I don't think we've ever seen them outside of the dreams.  Not to mention, how exactly is TIM controlling us?  An argument could be made that it's because of the synthetics in Shepards body, but then how is he controlling Anderson?  That just bugged the crap out of me.  I don't think indoctrination makes you telekinetic... does it? 

[rogueagent6]

MordiMoro wrote...

Ok... but the ending?

It's not the end if you make the correct choice.

[FLYING GRENADE11]

xDarkspace wrote...

We find the get infiltraitor to be a efficient model.

[Fat Headed Wolf]

GoBioWareGo wrote...

After reading this i'm getting some hope for the ending.

The only problem i can see with this is that the theory hinges on Shepard surviving in the rubble (meaning that the whole thing was an indoctrination attempt) since that would be the only way for it to make sense.

The problem here is that if it really was just horrible writing that didn't make sense, the whole Shepard waking up in the rubble could just be another nonsensical part of the ending.

Yeah, this has kinda been said. Either this was plan all along or the ending is just so riddled with plotholes and nonsense that it looks to be a dream or whatnot even when it is not. 

Either way though. It's the best chance of a new ending we got. 

[vrumpt]

FrostByte-GER wrote...

Also...has anybody noticed, that the godchild says "wake up" only on high ems scores? I heared in my ending(3000ems) "Why are you here" there was no "wake up". Now I watched the best ending on YT. The child says "wake up".

But now, watch this: www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlyGL9Cqsxw#t=08m40s
And compare it with this vid:

Heared it? Another proof for the indoctrination theory!!!

WoW! I was kinda wary on the indoctrination theory up until this point.  Until now I was just taking everything as an unfortunate coincidence at the fault of bad writing.   This is pretty significant evidence though.  If we can get a confirmation that "wake up" only happens with high enough EMS score then this theory is as good as proved.

[JediNg]

Priss Blackburne wrote...

Reading this thread and thinking about the ideas. I have gone from believing the franchise is dead to me to thinking it could be the best RPG I have ever experienced.

Don't go all-in yet.  It could still turn out to that it is only us seeing things that are just a result of them fouling up lol.

[RebelByDesign]

Lugaidster wrote...

Yo guys, I was listening to the talk with the catalyst and I realized this. We all focused a lot on the fact that the destroy option is just "silly" according to GC. However, did anyone really listen to what he says about the others? Here's a transcript (made by me ):

GC: Or do you think you can control us?
Shep: So TIM was right after all...?
GC: Yes, but he could never have taken control, because we already controlled him.
Shep: But I can?
GC: You will die, you will control us, but you will lose everything you have.
Shep: But the reapers will obey me?
GC: Yes, but there's another solution.
Shep: Yeah?
GC: Synthesis
Shep: And that is?
GC: Add your energy to the crucible's. Everything you are will absorbed and then sent out. The chain reaction will combine all synthetic and organic life into a new framework. A new DNA.
Shep: I don't know...
GC: Why not? Synthetics are already part of you. Can you imagine your life without them?
Shep: And there will be peace?
GC: The cycle will end. Synthesis is the final evolution of life, but we need each other to make it happen. You have a difficult decision. Releasing the energy of the crucible will end the cycle, but the mass relays will be destroyed. The paths are open, but you have to choose.

I have nothing to add to the discussion, but seeing the dialogue typed out like that really drives home how poorly written than scene is.

[LastChanceofgod]

Quick thought: A lot of people seem to think that the ending "boss" mirrors Mass Effect 1, and in a way the entire thing does, except for one thing, they didn't find Shepard in this one. Yet.

[CommanderSmacker]

It would massively effect me (in a good way) about the franchise, if these theories are indeed true!

[novaseeker]

BadlyBrowned wrote...

RE: The Player indoctrination Theory of the OP. Sort of rambling on, but here we go:

Indoctrination is suppose to dominate one's free will. Both Saren and TIM were shown to have very powerful wills, enough to resist the indoctrination process for a time, but ultimately succumb. 
Shepard is different though, Shepard actually has NO free will. Shepard is *our* avatar, his will is our will. Bioware could write up a whole bunch of different stuff to do to Shepard to convey Reapers attempts at indoctrinating him, but Reaper indoctrination simply does not work for Shepard because ultimately Shepard will is bound to the whims of the player.

Thus, with the "crucible" being a test, indoctrination being the domination of one's free will, and with the players being the source of Shepard's "free" will, it makes sense to me that the Reaper God Child's sudden appearence serves as a test of wills, the Reapers versus the Player. Shepard appears to be on the cusp of entering the Citadel and defeating the Reapers when he is hit with a laser. Could it be that this attempt at indoctrinating Shepard/The Player serves as the Reapers last gasp at avoiding their own extinction? At this point, the only real thing that could prevent Shepard from not destroying the Reapers is, well, you. So, like the Player Indoctrination Theory states, these last few minutes of the game perhaps serve as a way for the player to expierence just what it is like to come under the influence of indoctrination. That Shepard only "wakes up" in the destroy ending seems very telling right there, to me. 

Yeah, it's a huge stretch, but what the hell, it makes more sense than taking the endings at face value, imo.

Not a stretch.  It's what the ending is.  And it's a brilliant ending.

[byne]

Ok, just finished my Insanity playthrough, and I noticed a few things I didnt notice before:

1) When you first arrive on the Citadel after the beam hits you, when you talk to Anderson over the radio, Shepard never puts her hand to her ear like she does every other time she's talked on the radio before. She also doesnt do it when talking to Hackett

2) If you look at the background while talking with TIM, you can see cars moving and stuff in the background, like people are just going about their regular day inside a Reaper controlled Citadel orbiting Earth. You think they'd try to leave, or hide, or something.

Those two I admit dont really prove anything, but the third one is what interested me:

3) When Shepard takes her breath in the living ending, it doesnt seem like the 'Oh god I'm near death' gasping for breath you'd expect. It sounds a whole lot more like the surprised gasp she makes whenever she wakes up from the kid nightmares.

[ReclaimedHavoc]

Real quick, about the voices.

If the Catalyst voice has Shepard's voice encoded in it, in a way, what if he's trying to convince himself?

I mean, I know we are all agreeing it's a sign toward indoctrination, or dreaming, but I'd like to go further. In a way, it's like Saren, or TIM. Both of them, indoctrinated people, sat there, and talked to themselves, tried to convince themselves everything they were doing was right. Just like the Catalyst, a figment of Shep's indoctrinated thoughts. As Shepard trys to see what's going on, the Catalyst goes on about how killing Reapers is the worst course of action.

It all fits, way too well.

[Auresta]

vrumpt wrote...

FrostByte-GER wrote...

Also...has anybody noticed, that the godchild says "wake up" only on high ems scores? I heared in my ending(3000ems) "Why are you here" there was no "wake up". Now I watched the best ending on YT. The child says "wake up".

But now, watch this: www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlyGL9Cqsxw#t=08m40s
And compare it with this vid:

Heared it? Another proof for the indoctrination theory!!!

WoW! I was kinda wary on the indoctrination theory up until this point.  Until now I was just taking everything as an unfortunate coincidence at the fault of bad writing.   This is pretty significant evidence though.  If we can get a confirmation that "wake up" only happens with high enough EMS score then this theory is as good as proved.

I had wake-up with 4.8k EMS. BF had higher than me, heard the same thing. So did my friend. 

[Fledgey]

Alright I posted this a minute ago but everybody ignored it. Saren's speech in mass effect 1 mirrors the "Synthesis" ending perfectly just as TIM's speech mirrors "Control". Here's saren's speech:
"The relationship is symbiotic. Organic and machine intertwined. A union of flesh and steel. The strengths of both, and the weaknesses of neither. I am a vision of the future, Shepard. The evolution of all organic life. This is our destiny. Join Sovereign and experience a true rebirth."

[Deltateam Elcor]

vrumpt wrote...

FrostByte-GER wrote...

Also...has anybody noticed, that the godchild says "wake up" only on high ems scores? I heared in my ending(3000ems) "Why are you here" there was no "wake up". Now I watched the best ending on YT. The child says "wake up".

But now, watch this: www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlyGL9Cqsxw#t=08m40s
And compare it with this vid:

Heared it? Another proof for the indoctrination theory!!!

WoW! I was kinda wary on the indoctrination theory up until this point.  Until now I was just taking everything as an unfortunate coincidence at the fault of bad writing.   This is pretty significant evidence though.  If we can get a confirmation that "wake up" only happens with high enough EMS score then this theory is as good as proved.

Pretty sure its just Paragon differences.

[LolaLei]

Bigdoser wrote...

FrostByte-GER wrote...

Also...has anybody noticed, that the godchild says "wake up" only on high ems scores? I heared in my ending(3000ems) "Why are you here" there was no "wake up". Now I watched the best ending on YT. The child says "wake up".

But now, watch this: www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlyGL9Cqsxw#t=08m40s
And compare it with this vid:

Heared it? Another proof for the indoctrination theory!!!

Wow I did not catch onto that.

Hm, that's kinda odd. God Child sounds really pissed off when he asks "Why are you here" yet quite calm when he asks you to wake up.

[Heathen Pride]

Fledgey wrote...

Guys has anyone actually linked Saren's speech from the first game yet? Check this out. http://www.youtube.c...Jo3EzZZk#t=106s

The good ol' days. Saren was controlled via his implants, and isn't Shepard full of reaper tech implants? Looks like Saren was indoctrinated toward the synthesis solution.

[Dessalines]

In the codex it states that Harbringer is leading the attack on Earth, but he is never seen assuming control of anyone. Is it because he is busy trying to indoc Shep.

[rogueagent6]

Fledgey wrote...

Alright I posted this a minute ago but everybody ignored it. Saren's speech in mass effect 1 mirrors the "Synthesis" ending perfectly just as TIM's speech mirrors "Control". Here's saren's speech:
"The relationship is symbiotic. Organic and machine intertwined. A union of flesh and steel. The strengths of both, and the weaknesses of neither. I am a vision of the future, Shepard. The evolution of all organic life. This is our destiny. Join Sovereign and experience a true rebirth."

Zomg! Great catch! I forgot about Saren's speach!

[Lost Cipher]

This is an amazing theory however their is a big problem... practicality!

The endings as they are now on face value, are quite poor. Thus encouraging fans of the series to explain away the errors. Remember, the game has been made and shipped, its supposed to be a complete product.

Now granted it has been said by bioware employees/PR that the endings are open to interpretation (What PR department wouldn't?). And you guys have taken that and ran with it, most gloriously. Honestly I love this idea that its indoctrination or a hallucination. But would it not be simpler to explain the very similar endings with the actual ending itself... Stargazer: Grandpa explaining to the kid what happened so long ago. Retelling the tale and legend of Commander Shepard.

We know EA is going to make another Mass Effect title, it could be a new trilogy, mmo, or a one off. Thus it's easier to go into a new version of the universe with very similar endings that can be explained in game with dialogue or text over the course of 5-10 minutes. Casey Hudson saying save your ME3 saves has more to do with ME4 or DLC than anything else. Remember ME2 said to keep your saved games for the next title.

And only the synthesis ending requires actual work for the next game... every NPC has a faint green glow, or dialogue to explain why its not their anymore.