57139 réponses à ce sujet

[spotlessvoid]

Destructorlio wrote...

IT is the inevitable conclusion of this chain of logic. Yes maybe we don't have all the details right, but I think we have enough of the details correct to justify our beliefs. In fact... I know I was one of those people who originally said: "I don't mind if IT is true or not, as long as they make the ending good." I... don't know if that is true anymore. I feel like my brain has gone through the singularity, and on the other side there is only the indoctrination theory. I simply cannot imagine a storyline that will justify Liara & Garrus getting on the Normandy and fleeing the system while Shepard's fate was unknown. I cannot imagine this. If IT is not true, I don't see any other way of justifying all the oddities about the ending of the game. I think saying bioware just wrote a lazy ending is lazy thinking. IT must be true. I will not gloat to others if it is true, but I think I will be privately quite devastated if it is not- it will be like getting the literal ending all over again.

I think a lot of us would agree that Bioware has it in them to do it, and that it would be a big disappointment if that turned out to be wrong.

Fortunately, Bioware, as you pointed out, has made big twists their mainstay, and I doubt they decided to willingly trash the series they worked so hard on. Although the misdirection by Bioware employees has caused the occasional moment of doubt, over all I'm confident they have good things coming our way and the clues pointing to IT are pretty overwhelming.

[Rosewind]

Ah man to much text!

[gunslinger_ruiz]

Rosewind wrote...

Ah man to much text!

I think you mean not enough!

Did everyone go to sleep or something?

Modifié par gunslinger_ruiz, 14 mai 2012 - 08:49 .

[Auora]

Perhaps this has been asked before. However...

If chosen the red option, why does the "indoctrination/dream" not immediately end there? Why does Sheppard continue dreaming (of his crew/new planet and such)? It would seem to me as soon as he makes the choice to destroy, he should wake up where he was left from the blast.

Maybe it's not a big deal, but food for thought I suppose.

[BleedingUranium]

About the LegendSave, which was talked about a few pages ago. So, it is created the first time you finish the game (or, more precisely, make a choice), and is never overwritten, even by later playthroughs. It also doesn't seem to do anything (yet).

I think it's pretty obvious, you're only going to get indoctrinated (or not) the first time you play through, like any twist, it can't be the same again. So, natually it records that first time choice, to see what each player's true choice was, and will most likely be what determines the outcome of your particular story in EC. Otherwise, everyone who understands what's actually going on can now just go back, pick destroy with high EMS, and then do the EC.

LegendSave will force you to live with the choice you made before you knew what was going on.

So. Awesome.

Modifié par BleedingUranium, 14 mai 2012 - 09:09 .

[Arian Dynas]

Auora wrote...

Perhaps this has been asked before. However...

If chosen the red option, why does the "indoctrination/dream" not immediately end there? Why does Sheppard continue dreaming (of his crew/new planet and such)? It would seem to me as soon as he makes the choice to destroy, he should wake up where he was left from the blast.

Maybe it's not a big deal, but food for thought I suppose.

Because if they did it would make the whole thing completely obvious and there would be no speculation?

Though one other way it can be interpreted would be the assumption that it's basically a last **** you from the Reapers/their last attempt to demoralize Shepard.

[gunslinger_ruiz]

Arian Dynas wrote...

Auora wrote...

Perhaps this has been asked before. However...

If chosen the red option, why does the "indoctrination/dream" not immediately end there? Why does Sheppard continue dreaming (of his crew/new planet and such)? It would seem to me as soon as he makes the choice to destroy, he should wake up where he was left from the blast.

Maybe it's not a big deal, but food for thought I suppose.

Because if they did it would make the whole thing completely obvious and there would be no speculation?

Though one other way it can be interpreted would be the assumption that it's basically a last **** you from the Reapers/their last attempt to demoralize Shepard.

I agree with this notion. If they just showed the Destroy tube exploding then Shepard's breath scene without all the cinematics it would be far too obvious they were up to something. Although, this does support my own theory that Bioware wasn't given enough time from EA when asking for an extension, so took it with DLC and made the endings as similar as possible + the breath scene to keep suspense as well as their vision alive.

[Rosewind]

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Auora wrote...

Perhaps this has been asked before. However...

If chosen the red option, why does the "indoctrination/dream" not immediately end there? Why does Sheppard continue dreaming (of his crew/new planet and such)? It would seem to me as soon as he makes the choice to destroy, he should wake up where he was left from the blast.

Maybe it's not a big deal, but food for thought I suppose.

Because if they did it would make the whole thing completely obvious and there would be no speculation?

Though one other way it can be interpreted would be the assumption that it's basically a last **** you from the Reapers/their last attempt to demoralize Shepard.

I agree with this notion. If they just showed the Destroy tube exploding then Shepard's breath scene without all the cinematics it would be far too obvious they were up to something. Although, this does support my own theory that Bioware wasn't given enough time from EA when asking for an extension, so took it with DLC and made the endings as similar as possible + the breath scene to keep suspense as well as their vision alive.

All about speculation....

[monrapias]

[MegumiAzusa]

Simon_Says wrote...

Hey guys. Guys. New idea from my drunk tank. Came up with it when writing a post for another thread which I'll link now cause seriously, it's worth a read.

Consider the protheans for a moment. Consider that they were at work constructed the Crucible. Realize that Vendetta never actually mentions that it was never finished. Nor that it wasn't deployed.

Think of the collectors. Specifically, the collector general. Could that general have been the one who, so very very long ago, deployed the crucible?

Did it get caught in a similar dream as Shepard's? Did it fall into the same trap? Was it offered the same choice? What would it have chosen?

We already know.

Mordin once said...

"... No soul. Replaced by tech. Whatever they were, gone forever."

Synthesis.

It's happened before.


*****


Also, look at the Vendetta dialogue again.

Shepard: Tell us what the Catalyst is.

Vendetta: If you wish to continue fighting, I will not hinder you. Though I deem your odds of success rmeote.

Shepard: We'll take our chances

Vendetta: Very well, if you have followed the plans for the Crucible, I will interface with your systems and assist with the Catalyst to... Indoctrinate presence detected. Activating security protocol.

I don't know about you. But the sounds to me like the Citadel isn't the true Catalyst.

Maybe there will be no post ME3 ending stuff because regardless of choice the cycle continues
Though it would be interesting to play in the next cycle and civilizations wondering about what humanity has left behind.

[Rosewind]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Simon_Says wrote...

Hey guys. Guys. New idea from my drunk tank. Came up with it when writing a post for another thread which I'll link now cause seriously, it's worth a read.

Consider the protheans for a moment. Consider that they were at work constructed the Crucible. Realize that Vendetta never actually mentions that it was never finished. Nor that it wasn't deployed.

Think of the collectors. Specifically, the collector general. Could that general have been the one who, so very very long ago, deployed the crucible?

Did it get caught in a similar dream as Shepard's? Did it fall into the same trap? Was it offered the same choice? What would it have chosen?

We already know.

Mordin once said...

"... No soul. Replaced by tech. Whatever they were, gone forever."

Synthesis.

It's happened before.


*****


Also, look at the Vendetta dialogue again.

Shepard: Tell us what the Catalyst is.

Vendetta: If you wish to continue fighting, I will not hinder you. Though I deem your odds of success rmeote.

Shepard: We'll take our chances

Vendetta: Very well, if you have followed the plans for the Crucible, I will interface with your systems and assist with the Catalyst to... Indoctrinate presence detected. Activating security protocol.

I don't know about you. But the sounds to me like the Citadel isn't the true Catalyst.

Maybe there will be no post ME3 ending stuff because regardless of choice the cycle continues
Though it would be interesting to play in the next cycle and civilizations wondering about what humanity has left behind.

I bags playing a Varren!!!!

[Salient Archer]

Rosewind wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Auora wrote...

Perhaps this has been asked before. However...

If chosen the red option, why does the "indoctrination/dream" not immediately end there? Why does Sheppard continue dreaming (of his crew/new planet and such)? It would seem to me as soon as he makes the choice to destroy, he should wake up where he was left from the blast.

Maybe it's not a big deal, but food for thought I suppose.

Because if they did it would make the whole thing completely obvious and there would be no speculation?

Though one other way it can be interpreted would be the assumption that it's basically a last **** you from the Reapers/their last attempt to demoralize Shepard.

I agree with this notion. If they just showed the Destroy tube exploding then Shepard's breath scene without all the cinematics it would be far too obvious they were up to something. Although, this does support my own theory that Bioware wasn't given enough time from EA when asking for an extension, so took it with DLC and made the endings as similar as possible + the breath scene to keep suspense as well as their vision alive.

All about speculation....

+1 for "LOTS OF SPECULATION FROM EVERYONE"

I'm really of two minds about how deliberate the action was on BioWare's behalf, I also feel EA might have thrown them a curveball with the 3 month short deadline. Having said that if this is byproduct of a lousy situation for BW I feel they’ve executed it well; they’ve been able to maintain a high level of suspense and speculation on everyone’s behalf by giving us the current endings which I don’t feel are that far off from what BW had planned all along.

I just get the feeling that if BioWare was to release the game in June like they wanted, we would have had the EC ending as soon as the first complaints surfaced instead of 3 months later To BioWares credit I think the Free DLC ending revealing the truth was always in the plan it’s just that a deal had to be struck with EA and this was the compromise.

[Arian Dynas]

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Auora wrote...

Perhaps this has been asked before. However...

If chosen the red option, why does the "indoctrination/dream" not immediately end there? Why does Sheppard continue dreaming (of his crew/new planet and such)? It would seem to me as soon as he makes the choice to destroy, he should wake up where he was left from the blast.

Maybe it's not a big deal, but food for thought I suppose.

Because if they did it would make the whole thing completely obvious and there would be no speculation?

Though one other way it can be interpreted would be the assumption that it's basically a last **** you from the Reapers/their last attempt to demoralize Shepard.

I agree with this notion. If they just showed the Destroy tube exploding then Shepard's breath scene without all the cinematics it would be far too obvious they were up to something. Although, this does support my own theory that Bioware wasn't given enough time from EA when asking for an extension, so took it with DLC and made the endings as similar as possible + the breath scene to keep suspense as well as their vision alive.

I disagree completely actually.

I think EA is fully aware for the simple fact that they get everything they want out of this.

They get to release Mass Effect 3 in March, with no more delays, to general applause via both digital download and physical copies, collectors editions in high demand, millions of units sold with astronomically high critical and player acclaim, the only downside of which to be found is an ending considered lacklustre, most of the angry people blame Bioware, the ones whom bought the game and found themselves unhappy either keep their copy, and perhaps change their mind about it, those whom were unhappy enough to try and get a refund usually fail, and when they do succeed, the only person to lose money is the distributing companies. New people buy the game in a fit of morbid curiousity, figuring the ending can't be that bad, and seeing a triple A title for most of it, and usually falling in love with it,  they get tons of free advertising from people talking about it and speculating, and it becomes the most discussed videogame of all time.

Then, they reveal IDT as the originally intended ending and all hell breaks loose, suddenly they are the greatest developer of all time, they just released a truly artistic game, with an ending well and truly awesome, worthy of Mass Effect, capping off Shepard's story as it should be, all the people whom sold their copies buy new ones to see the ending, while the people who bought used buy the new ending DLC, so that EA still gets money, people buy the game to see "wow this incredible ending that really pulls you into the story!" out of yet more curiousity, they get all the free advertising they want, etc.

In the end, it's a win win for EA.

[Arian Dynas]

Also, for the record, since no one has bothered to reply to anything I put in my wall of text, I'm feeling a bit ignored... >.>...

[Rosewind]

Arian Dynas wrote...

Also, for the record, since no one has bothered to reply to anything I put in my wall of text, I'm feeling a bit ignored... >.>...

I have a confession ... I don't really read all the walls of text ><

[BleedingUranium]

Arian Dynas wrote...

Also, for the record, since no one has bothered to reply to anything I put in my wall of text, I'm feeling a bit ignored... >.>...

I read it and thought it was good, as usual. But it's late here, so I'm off

[TSA_383]

BleedingUranium wrote...

About the LegendSave, which was talked about a few pages ago. So, it is created the first time you finish the game (or, more precisely, make a choice), and is never overwritten, even by later playthroughs. It also doesn't seem to do anything (yet).

I think it's pretty obvious, you're only going to get indoctrinated (or not) the first time you play through, like any twist, it can't be the same again. So, natually it records that first time choice, to see what each player's true choice was, and will most likely be what determines the outcome of your particular story in EC. Otherwise, everyone who understands what's actually going on can now just go back, pick destroy with high EMS, and then do the EC.

LegendSave will force you to live with the choice you made before you knew what was going on.

So. Awesome.

Going to finish off the story on my other shepard this week, to see whether it generates another Legendsave.

[BleedingUranium]

TSA_383 wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

About the LegendSave, which was talked about a few pages ago. So, it is created the first time you finish the game (or, more precisely, make a choice), and is never overwritten, even by later playthroughs. It also doesn't seem to do anything (yet).

I think it's pretty obvious, you're only going to get indoctrinated (or not) the first time you play through, like any twist, it can't be the same again. So, natually it records that first time choice, to see what each player's true choice was, and will most likely be what determines the outcome of your particular story in EC. Otherwise, everyone who understands what's actually going on can now just go back, pick destroy with high EMS, and then do the EC.

LegendSave will force you to live with the choice you made before you knew what was going on.

So. Awesome.

Going to finish off the story on my other shepard this week, to see whether it generates another Legendsave.

I'd assume it's one per character, but looking forward knowing for sure. Assuming I actually find the post

Modifié par BleedingUranium, 14 mai 2012 - 10:55 .

[Rifneno]

TSA_383 wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Let's see how many people can quote a 4 page post to add half a sentence. My money's on 9.

You're on.

Reason #476 that the forums needs an auto-hide post option.

Arian Dynas wrote...

Giving credence to the theory that EA is doing this whole thing to have it like Cerberus Network, free for owners, paid for by used buyers.

Good. **** Gamestop and everyone that totally screws everyone with a hand in the game's existence to save five goddamn dollars. That pustule of a company is probably as big a blight on the industry as piracy.

Also, had an interesting theory, it occured to me that the Protheans, being insectoid, and judging by the codex, most insectoid species have castes, usually being ruled by a biotically active caste, which leads me to wonder, do you think the Collector General might be derived from a perhaps scientist, or maybe ruling caste, while Javik is derived from a soldier caste? Or perhaps the Protheans are made up of many species, since Javik stated that many client species referred to themselves as Protheans when they joined the empire, and hence why the Prothean Reaper failed was due to a misunderstanding on the Reapers' part, thinking that several insectoid species that collectively referred to themselves as "Prothean" were actually compatible with oneanother?

1. The Reapers aren't grotesquely retarded, which they would have to be for that scenario.
2. What other insectoid species? The kirik are of hivemind and so without caste. The rachni are the closest as the brood warriors, the elite hive defenders, have some biotics. The rachni, arguably. The klixen we know nothing except "eww" about. So... one? Maybe?
3. Javik was a soldier, yet he was intended to lead the Prothean Empire when it re-emerged from stasis. So while the similarities and differences between Javik and the Collector General suggest evolution gave them specialized roles, they generally dismiss it as a society. Much in the same way humans have done with gender roles.
4. Stop baiting me about the Prothean Reaper.

[Arian Dynas]

Rosewind wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Also, for the record, since no one has bothered to reply to anything I put in my wall of text, I'm feeling a bit ignored... >.>...

I have a confession ... I don't really read all the walls of text ><

DO IT! DOOOOO ITTTT....

Modifié par Arian Dynas, 14 mai 2012 - 10:59 .

[Arian Dynas]

Rifneno wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Let's see how many people can quote a 4 page post to add half a sentence. My money's on 9.

You're on.

Reason #476 that the forums needs an auto-hide post option.

Arian Dynas wrote...

Giving credence to the theory that EA is doing this whole thing to have it like Cerberus Network, free for owners, paid for by used buyers.

Good. **** Gamestop and everyone that totally screws everyone with a hand in the game's existence to save five goddamn dollars. That pustule of a company is probably as big a blight on the industry as piracy.

Also, had an interesting theory, it occured to me that the Protheans, being insectoid, and judging by the codex, most insectoid species have castes, usually being ruled by a biotically active caste, which leads me to wonder, do you think the Collector General might be derived from a perhaps scientist, or maybe ruling caste, while Javik is derived from a soldier caste? Or perhaps the Protheans are made up of many species, since Javik stated that many client species referred to themselves as Protheans when they joined the empire, and hence why the Prothean Reaper failed was due to a misunderstanding on the Reapers' part, thinking that several insectoid species that collectively referred to themselves as "Prothean" were actually compatible with oneanother?

1. The Reapers aren't grotesquely retarded, which they would have to be for that scenario.
2. What other insectoid species? The kirik are of hivemind and so without caste. The rachni are the closest as the brood warriors, the elite hive defenders, have some biotics. The rachni, arguably. The klixen we know nothing except "eww" about. So... one? Maybe?
3. Javik was a soldier, yet he was intended to lead the Prothean Empire when it re-emerged from stasis. So while the similarities and differences between Javik and the Collector General suggest evolution gave them specialized roles, they generally dismiss it as a society. Much in the same way humans have done with gender roles.
4. Stop baiting me about the Prothean Reaper.

Won't disagree that Gamestop and a bunch of stores that use Used games as their primary income are a bunch of leeches, but really, Piracy is alot less of an issue than the entertainment industry complains about, really if you can't compete with free, you can't compete at all. I still love the anti piracy method the developers of Arkham Asylum used, if you pirated the game, the code would disable your glider, meaning you couldn't go anywhere in the game.

1. I wouldn't have said they'd need to be idiots, but considering the rather intensive genetic testing they put prospective races through, I won't deny, probably not likely.
2. We don't really know, there was just a throwaway mention of other, undefined insectioid species in the codex under Collectors in ME2.
3. There's the other possibility, could be they're like ants, when a new queen is needed, some ants are capable of replacing her, so perhaps a Soldier Prothean could go into hibernation in a cocoon and emerge, well a brain bug.
4. Not baiting you man.

Modifié par Arian Dynas, 14 mai 2012 - 11:05 .

[Salient Archer]

Arian Dynas wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Auora wrote...

Perhaps this has been asked before. However...

If chosen the red option, why does the "indoctrination/dream" not immediately end there? Why does Sheppard continue dreaming (of his crew/new planet and such)? It would seem to me as soon as he makes the choice to destroy, he should wake up where he was left from the blast.

Maybe it's not a big deal, but food for thought I suppose.

Because if they did it would make the whole thing completely obvious and there would be no speculation?

Though one other way it can be interpreted would be the assumption that it's basically a last **** you from the Reapers/their last attempt to demoralize Shepard.

I agree with this notion. If they just showed the Destroy tube exploding then Shepard's breath scene without all the cinematics it would be far too obvious they were up to something. Although, this does support my own theory that Bioware wasn't given enough time from EA when asking for an extension, so took it with DLC and made the endings as similar as possible + the breath scene to keep suspense as well as their vision alive.

I disagree completely actually.

I think EA is fully aware for the simple fact that they get everything they want out of this.

They get to release Mass Effect 3 in March, with no more delays, to general applause via both digital download and physical copies, collectors editions in high demand, millions of units sold with astronomically high critical and player acclaim, the only downside of which to be found is an ending considered lacklustre, most of the angry people blame Bioware, the ones whom bought the game and found themselves unhappy either keep their copy, and perhaps change their mind about it, those whom were unhappy enough to try and get a refund usually fail, and when they do succeed, the only person to lose money is the distributing companies. New people buy the game in a fit of morbid curiousity, figuring the ending can't be that bad, and seeing a triple A title for most of it, and usually falling in love with it,  they get tons of free advertising from people talking about it and speculating, and it becomes the most discussed videogame of all time.

Then, they reveal IDT as the originally intended ending and all hell breaks loose, suddenly they are the greatest developer of all time, they just released a truly artistic game, with an ending well and truly awesome, worthy of Mass Effect, capping off Shepard's story as it should be, all the people whom sold their copies buy new ones to see the ending, while the people who bought used buy the new ending DLC, so that EA still gets money, people buy the game to see "wow this incredible ending that really pulls you into the story!" out of yet more curiousity, they get all the free advertising they want, etc.

In the end, it's a win win for EA.

I agree with this after all It’s a smart business strategy that doesn’t hurt EA. It has however damaged BioWares rep with a lot of fans [for the moment]. I’m actually curious how many copies of ME3 have sold out of pure curiosity. As for who the situation is good for well we all know how the obvious winner is.

This ending debacle was decided in a board room some 5 months ago, there’s no way this wasn’t planned at some stage, but we all have proof that it was EA that decided to pull it forward 3 months, not BioWare, hence why I feel BW would have had the ending DLC all ready to go as soon as they wanted instead of playing catchup for the 3 month gap EA put in their schedule.

There’s no way that the mega-company EA made any kind of loss out of this situation, heck they aren’t even being touted as the bad guy in the situation a quarter as much as BW is. Anyway lets face it Capcom have pulled the same stunt with Azura’s Wrath so why not EA?

On the flip-side How many people have I heard say “This is the last time I’ll ever support BioWare” amazes me, some have even gone to the extent of not playing the MP anymore or even the extremes of pulling their SWTOR accounts as a result. Hopefully [re: probably] this attitude will change when the masses finally catchup to what the rest of us have been ‘speculating’

[Rosewind]

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH 24 hours!!!!

[Earthborn_Shepard]

...wat?

[Rosewind]

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

...wat?

DIABLO 3 YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY!!!!