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Was the ending a hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory


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#56951
Arian Dynas

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Rifneno wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Won't disagree that Gamestop and a bunch of stores that use Used games as their primary income are a bunch of leeches, but really, Piracy is alot less of an issue than the entertainment industry complains about, really if you can't compete with free, you can't compete at all. I still love the anti piracy method the developers of Arkham Asylum used, if you pirated the game, the code would disable your glider, meaning you couldn't go anywhere in the game.

1. I wouldn't have said they'd need to be idiots, but considering the rather intensive genetic testing they put prospective races through, I won't deny, probably not likely.
2. We don't really know, there was just a throwaway mention of other, undefined insectioid species in the codex under Collectors in ME2.
3. There's the other possibility, could be they're like ants, when a new queen is needed, some ants are capable of replacing her, so perhaps a Soldier Prothean could go into hibernation in a cocoon and emerge, well a brain bug.
4. Not baiting you man.


Interesting article from CD Projekt and their view on piracy. God, I wish there were more developers like them. They get it. I seriously considered buying a second copy of the game after I read that.
The main problem with the "piracy will ruin civilization!" arguments is that so many people think 1 pirated copy means 1 lost sale. Which assumes that everyone would have legitimately bought the product new otherwise, and that no one will decide the program/movie/whatever is worth the money and buy it legitimately after giving it a test drive. Both of which are such immense logical fallacies that I don't understand how any sentient being can say them with a straight face, let alone believe them.

If you think the Arkham Asylum one is good, get a load of this one: Earthbound. SNES game. Yes, people pirated cartridge based console games before the Internet was big. Where there's a will, there's a way I guess. Anyway... if it detected the cart wasn't legit, when you booted up it would display a copyright warning. Subtle, a lot of people would just figure that was standard and not realize the thing knows. The game was much, much harder than the legit version. And here's the magic part, the coup de grâce. If you did make it to the final boss in the pirated version, the game would freeze up just as the battle begins. When you restart it, you will shudder in horror to find all your saves erased. Coup de grâce indeed.

1. They've been doing it for hundreds of millions of years, if they haven't realized yet that organics form empires then starbrat is the smartest among them.
2. Wha? That came from Bioware? I thought you were just paraphrasing. That doesn't make any damned sense, BW! :
4. Seriously? We wandered back to the subject of a Prothean Reaper by happenstance?


Personally agree about DRM, "when you try to protect everything, you protect nothing" - Sun Tzu

There is no point in making DRM worse for the player than the pirate (I'm looking at you Spore) because basically, it only encourages people to pirate it MORE. Hence why I love GoG among many others. If it's going to be DRM, give me something simple, non invasive and convineint, like Steam, for all it's imperfections.

Heard about the Earthbound one before, forgot that, that was a good one.

1. Hence why I said you were probably right.
2. Yeah, seriously, they never bothered to specify whom, but eh, leaving their options open, I assume.
4. Yeah, pretty much. I don't care one way or another, really, It was just a thought.

#56952
MegumiAzusa

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TSA_383 wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

Yeah, so pretty sure that Shepards gun turns into a Predator when the destroy tube explodes. Can you guys verify?

Look, here. (for ease of viewing, go to HD and full screen)



At 1.15, pause and check the gun. It doesn't have the arch bits on top. It's the Predator, not the carnifex.

If you choose destroy, Shep gets his gun back :D

Good catch!
Seems like all the negative gun scenes in the game use the carnifex... if you shoot mordin, carnifex, if you shoot wrex, carnifex, you shoot anderson, carnifex.
Shoot the destroy tube... :pinched:
Also, about the other two endings also loading the red cinematic - where did you find that info in Umodel?

Confirmed
Posted Image

#56953
SS2Dante

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MegumiAzusa wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

Yeah, so pretty sure that Shepards gun turns into a Predator when the destroy tube explodes. Can you guys verify?

Look, here. (for ease of viewing, go to HD and full screen)



At 1.15, pause and check the gun. It doesn't have the arch bits on top. It's the Predator, not the carnifex.

If you choose destroy, Shep gets his gun back :D

Good catch!
Seems like all the negative gun scenes in the game use the carnifex... if you shoot mordin, carnifex, if you shoot wrex, carnifex, you shoot anderson, carnifex.
Shoot the destroy tube... :pinched:
Also, about the other two endings also loading the red cinematic - where did you find that info in Umodel?

Confirmed
Posted Image


Feel rather proud of myself :P  Deductionining :P

And TSA, it's in the listings as both a WwiseEvent and a WwiseStream, if that helps? If not I'll post a screenshot to show.

EDIT - thanks for the screenshot Megumi. Btw your Shepard looks exactly like mine, except mine has her hair down :P  So much better than that train wreck they put as the official model.

Modifié par SS2Dante, 14 mai 2012 - 01:08 .


#56954
Rosewind

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lex0r11 wrote...

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

Rosewind wrote...

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

...wat?


DIABLO 3 YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY!!!!


...oh.. forgot about that one.


Here you go. With reaper-ish sounds and everything.

youtu.be/K-ZA7NLSRhg


*drool* I <3 Lex0r

#56955
Arian Dynas

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Before I go to bed, I found this and just had to share it;

Crayon Dragon

Student made film, barely 3 minutes long, yet I won't deny I was crying by the end of it, and felt for the first time in a long while, that humanity is indeed a sublime animal.

Modifié par Arian Dynas, 14 mai 2012 - 01:13 .


#56956
Rosewind

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mmm lime animal

#56957
estebanus

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Arian Dynas wrote...

Before I go to bed, I found this and just had to share it;

Crayon Dragon

Student made film, barely 3 minutes long, yet I won't deny I was crying by the end of it, and felt for the first time in a long while, that humanity is indeed a sublime animal.



Ok, I have to admit: That.was.Beautiful. And it was made by a student? Holy hell! 

I'm crying right now, that's how great it was!:crying:

#56958
Daryslash

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estebanus wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

About the LegendSave, which was talked about a few pages ago. So, it is created the first time you finish the game (or, more precisely, make a choice), and is never overwritten, even by later playthroughs. It also doesn't seem to do anything (yet).

I think it's pretty obvious, you're only going to get indoctrinated (or not) the first time you play through, like any twist, it can't be the same again. So, natually it records that first time choice, to see what each player's true choice was, and will most likely be what determines the outcome of your particular story in EC. Otherwise, everyone who understands what's actually going on can now just go back, pick destroy with high EMS, and then do the EC.

LegendSave will force you to live with the choice you made before you knew what was going on.

So. Awesome.



Posted Image


Mother of Galaxy...

Please don't do that to me. I chose CONTROL by MISTAKE. I wanted to DESTROY them. For some reason I thought the blue choice was the destroy one. I guess I was just THAT confused in this part.
My mission was to destroy them, I was going to do exactly that. No other options.
:/

#56959
TSA_383

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Daryslash wrote...

estebanus wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

About the LegendSave, which was talked about a few pages ago. So, it is created the first time you finish the game (or, more precisely, make a choice), and is never overwritten, even by later playthroughs. It also doesn't seem to do anything (yet).

I think it's pretty obvious, you're only going to get indoctrinated (or not) the first time you play through, like any twist, it can't be the same again. So, natually it records that first time choice, to see what each player's true choice was, and will most likely be what determines the outcome of your particular story in EC. Otherwise, everyone who understands what's actually going on can now just go back, pick destroy with high EMS, and then do the EC.

LegendSave will force you to live with the choice you made before you knew what was going on.

So. Awesome.



Posted Image


Mother of Galaxy...

Please don't do that to me. I chose CONTROL by MISTAKE. I wanted to DESTROY them. For some reason I thought the blue choice was the destroy one. I guess I was just THAT confused in this part.
My mission was to destroy them, I was going to do exactly that. No other options.
:/


"Well, the galaxy would have been saved... but Shepard got lost and ended up becoming a reaper by mistake"

Bravo, good sir :P

#56960
DJBare

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BleedingUranium wrote...

About the LegendSave, which was talked about a few pages ago. So, it is created the first time you finish the game (or, more precisely, make a choice), and is never overwritten, even by later playthroughs. It also doesn't seem to do anything (yet).

I think it's pretty obvious, you're only going to get indoctrinated (or not) the first time you play through, like any twist, it can't be the same again. So, natually it records that first time choice, to see what each player's true choice was, and will most likely be what determines the outcome of your particular story in EC. Otherwise, everyone who understands what's actually going on can now just go back, pick destroy with high EMS, and then do the EC.

LegendSave will force you to live with the choice you made before you knew what was going on.

So. Awesome.

Oh crap, my first choice was in confusion and definitely turned out to be in error after thinking it through, I shudder to think of the consequences, fortunately I created new characters with their own Legendsaves with what I consider the correct choice, if the legendsave does turn out to be as you described, I look forward to seeing the outcomes.

#56961
Guest_ll PAYASO323 ll_*

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Arian Dynas wrote...

Also, for the record, since no one has bothered to reply to anything I put in my wall of text, I'm feeling a bit ignored... >.>...

i read that whole thing actually..
its nice to read walls the walls of text that actually make a point

#56962
dreamgazer

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Imperium Alpha wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

About the LegendSave, which was talked about a few pages ago. So, it is created the first time you finish the game (or, more precisely, make a choice), and is never overwritten, even by later playthroughs. It also doesn't seem to do anything (yet).

I think it's pretty obvious, you're only going to get indoctrinated (or not) the first time you play through, like any twist, it can't be the same again. So, natually it records that first time choice, to see what each player's true choice was, and will most likely be what determines the outcome of your particular story in EC. Otherwise, everyone who understands what's actually going on can now just go back, pick destroy with high EMS, and then do the EC.

LegendSave will force you to live with the choice you made before you knew what was going on.

So. Awesome.



Too clever for BioWare. Sorry. :lol:


I don't think it's too clever, but I do think it reflects on BioWare having a more forceful hand over one choice than they typically exhibit, in that I don't see why they'd orchestrate a scenario that would ultimately "punish" you for making the wrong one the first time.  Doesn't seem indicative of their gaming philosophy. 

Modifié par dreamgazer, 14 mai 2012 - 01:44 .


#56963
MegumiAzusa

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DJBare wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

About the LegendSave, which was talked about a few pages ago. So, it is created the first time you finish the game (or, more precisely, make a choice), and is never overwritten, even by later playthroughs. It also doesn't seem to do anything (yet).

I think it's pretty obvious, you're only going to get indoctrinated (or not) the first time you play through, like any twist, it can't be the same again. So, natually it records that first time choice, to see what each player's true choice was, and will most likely be what determines the outcome of your particular story in EC. Otherwise, everyone who understands what's actually going on can now just go back, pick destroy with high EMS, and then do the EC.

LegendSave will force you to live with the choice you made before you knew what was going on.

So. Awesome.

Oh crap, my first choice was in confusion and definitely turned out to be in error after thinking it through, I shudder to think of the consequences, fortunately I created new characters with their own Legendsaves with what I consider the correct choice, if the legendsave does turn out to be as you described, I look forward to seeing the outcomes.

People don't seem to read my posts >.>

#56964
dreamgazer

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MegumiAzusa wrote...

More interesting is deleting the LegendSave and then loading from London you can't continue after clicking Continue on the pad that tells you you became a legend. It just results in a black screen and the only thing you can do is Alt+F4 yourself out.


That's interesting to hear. It makes it sound more like a stacking circumstance file instead of a finite one. So, it's a trigger that creates a "gateway" of sorts involving the after-game message?

#56965
Rifneno

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Arian Dynas wrote...

And yes, the news anchors are partially right, Bioware DOES have a ****ton of really entitled **** fans. Bioware gives you something great, something suprelative, and yet you jump on them the moment they do something you don't like? Come the **** on. DA2 was an ok game, and would have been a great game from anyone else, but was merely "meh" from Bioware, and yet everyone treats it as though it was this ****ty bargain basement titled deserving only of scorn and the worst thing ever, the sheer hypocrisy of that pisses me off to no end, I have played well and truly ****ty games, like Dungeon lords, a game so broken on release, it's last patch STILL didn't make it playable, and if you wanted a game that would work, oops, sorry, you had to spend another 50 dollars for the "collector's edition" which I bought, unsurprisingly for 10 bucks from the bargain bin, it had at best a mediocre story that was tired and extremely played out, graphics that were, to be entirely honest, pretty poor, I mean armor was actually mapped to the body, so I could see my character's ass in full detail, despite him wearing full plate. The only issues I've had with Dragon Age 2 is the reused assets over and over again, the too fast pace, and the fact that the ****suckers down at my Best Buy are a bunch of cheating ****s who stole my Signature Edition and tried to pawn me off with a cheap imitation while they passed around the SEs among their own staff, stiffing customers WHOM PAID FOR THEM.

I loved DA:O, thought it was the greatest game ever made first time I popped it in, I still play Baldur's Gate to this day, loved Neverwinter Nights 2, second time I ever cared about characters in a story and actually started to choose things for roleplaying reasons, I still consider Mass Effect to be the best 20 bucks I ever spent, with Mass Effect 2 being one of my favorites of all time, and fail to see the complaints to many held for it.

Basically, I am sick of the people whom jump on Bioware for every little mistake and scream "YOU HAVE FAILED ME! I'LL HATE YOU FOREVER!" because in the end, they sound like nothing in as much as a bunch of five year olds whining that mommy won't let them have the extra jumbo size candybar.


The reason DA2 sucked ass (and it did) is because of the story, not the gameplay. It wasn't just below Bioware standards, it was below general RPG standards. In DAO or the entire ME series you get major choices with world or galaxy changing consequences. In DA2, the most effect you might have is deciding whether a given character gets to make a cameo in DA3. And only a cameo, because if they decide to bring back a character for any significant role, it won't matter if you killed them. They'll retcon it, not have the jewels to own up to it ("we consider epilogue slides rumors"... what a load), and bring them back from the dead with nary a scratch. Even when, such as Anders, there's absolutely no reason they couldn't have used a new character. Other choices are given and then thrown out the window too. So you've got Petrice 3-on-2 in an abandoned building and no one knows she's there? Selected to kill her after she tried to kill you? Nope, you're gonna stand aside and let her walk away because the plot says so. Warned Cullen about the Chantry? No dice, stop trying to play this anime like it's a game. But at least NPCs are dealing with the same plot railroading. Just ask Thrask.
But at least they learned the lesson. The DLC's aren't chock full of the exact same garbage. Oh no wait, yes they are. Seeing that you're presented with meaningless choices through Legacy (which of course all works out exactly the same no matter what you do) made me weary enough to read the spoilers for Mark of the Assassin before buying. And wow was I glad I did. I'd have been enraged to find out I actually paid money to play nice with another fascist qunari waste of life.

#56966
estebanus

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TSA_383 wrote...

Daryslash wrote...

estebanus wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

About the LegendSave, which was talked about a few pages ago. So, it is created the first time you finish the game (or, more precisely, make a choice), and is never overwritten, even by later playthroughs. It also doesn't seem to do anything (yet).

I think it's pretty obvious, you're only going to get indoctrinated (or not) the first time you play through, like any twist, it can't be the same again. So, natually it records that first time choice, to see what each player's true choice was, and will most likely be what determines the outcome of your particular story in EC. Otherwise, everyone who understands what's actually going on can now just go back, pick destroy with high EMS, and then do the EC.

LegendSave will force you to live with the choice you made before you knew what was going on.

So. Awesome.



Posted Image


Mother of Galaxy...

Please don't do that to me. I chose CONTROL by MISTAKE. I wanted to DESTROY them. For some reason I thought the blue choice was the destroy one. I guess I was just THAT confused in this part.
My mission was to destroy them, I was going to do exactly that. No other options.
:/


"Well, the galaxy would have been saved... but Shepard got lost and ended up becoming a reaper by mistake"

Bravo, good sir :P



And so concludes the story of one of the greatest characters in history: Absolute and total confusion! :P

#56967
SS2Dante

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MegumiAzusa wrote...

DJBare wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

About the LegendSave, which was talked about a few pages ago. So, it is created the first time you finish the game (or, more precisely, make a choice), and is never overwritten, even by later playthroughs. It also doesn't seem to do anything (yet).

I think it's pretty obvious, you're only going to get indoctrinated (or not) the first time you play through, like any twist, it can't be the same again. So, natually it records that first time choice, to see what each player's true choice was, and will most likely be what determines the outcome of your particular story in EC. Otherwise, everyone who understands what's actually going on can now just go back, pick destroy with high EMS, and then do the EC.

LegendSave will force you to live with the choice you made before you knew what was going on.

So. Awesome.

Oh crap, my first choice was in confusion and definitely turned out to be in error after thinking it through, I shudder to think of the consequences, fortunately I created new characters with their own Legendsaves with what I consider the correct choice, if the legendsave does turn out to be as you described, I look forward to seeing the outcomes.

People don't seem to read my posts >.>


You disproved this or something, right, Megumi? Probably need to reiterate, 

#56968
MegumiAzusa

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dreamgazer wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

More interesting is deleting the LegendSave and then loading from London you can't continue after clicking Continue on the pad that tells you you became a legend. It just results in a black screen and the only thing you can do is Alt+F4 yourself out.


That's interesting to hear. It makes it sound more like a stacking circumstance file instead of a finite one. So, it's a trigger that creates a "gateway" of sorts involving the after-game message?

Not quite. I suspect other savegames are updated that a LegendSave already exists for that career, remember new careers don't have a LegendSave until you finish at least once. Also creating a new career with the gibbed edior results in the same (black screen).

#56969
MegumiAzusa

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SS2Dante wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

DJBare wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

About the LegendSave, which was talked about a few pages ago. So, it is created the first time you finish the game (or, more precisely, make a choice), and is never overwritten, even by later playthroughs. It also doesn't seem to do anything (yet).

I think it's pretty obvious, you're only going to get indoctrinated (or not) the first time you play through, like any twist, it can't be the same again. So, natually it records that first time choice, to see what each player's true choice was, and will most likely be what determines the outcome of your particular story in EC. Otherwise, everyone who understands what's actually going on can now just go back, pick destroy with high EMS, and then do the EC.

LegendSave will force you to live with the choice you made before you knew what was going on.

So. Awesome.

Oh crap, my first choice was in confusion and definitely turned out to be in error after thinking it through, I shudder to think of the consequences, fortunately I created new characters with their own Legendsaves with what I consider the correct choice, if the legendsave does turn out to be as you described, I look forward to seeing the outcomes.

People don't seem to read my posts >.>


You disproved this or something, right, Megumi? Probably need to reiterate

Yes, under unknown conditions the LegendSave file is overwritten.

#56970
Sammuthegreat

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Daryslash wrote...

estebanus wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

About the LegendSave, which was talked about a few pages ago. So, it is created the first time you finish the game (or, more precisely, make a choice), and is never overwritten, even by later playthroughs. It also doesn't seem to do anything (yet).

I think it's pretty obvious, you're only going to get indoctrinated (or not) the first time you play through, like any twist, it can't be the same again. So, natually it records that first time choice, to see what each player's true choice was, and will most likely be what determines the outcome of your particular story in EC. Otherwise, everyone who understands what's actually going on can now just go back, pick destroy with high EMS, and then do the EC.

LegendSave will force you to live with the choice you made before you knew what was going on.

So. Awesome.



Posted Image


Mother of Galaxy...

Please don't do that to me. I chose CONTROL by MISTAKE. I wanted to DESTROY them. For some reason I thought the blue choice was the destroy one. I guess I was just THAT confused in this part.
My mission was to destroy them, I was going to do exactly that. No other options.
:/


I was confused and didn't notice that the Destroy and Control options were to either side of the Catalyst platform, so I accidentally picked Synthesis, expecting that I'd be offered dialogue options to make my final choice... I never even once deviated from wanting to pick Destroy. I just cocked up because I'm a buffoon.

#56971
Rosewind

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Rifneno wrote...
*snip* And wow was I glad I did. I'd have been enraged to find out I actually paid money to play nice with another fascist qunari waste of life.


Voiced by an annoying women .... man I hate Felicia Day, she was barely even good as Veronica from New Vegas.

#56972
MegumiAzusa

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Rifneno wrote...

The reason DA2 sucked ass (and it did) is because of the story, not the gameplay. It wasn't just below Bioware standards, it was below general RPG standards. In DAO or the entire ME series you get major choices with world or galaxy changing consequences. In DA2, the most effect you might have is deciding whether a given character gets to make a cameo in DA3. And only a cameo, because if they decide to bring back a character for any significant role, it won't matter if you killed them. They'll retcon it, not have the jewels to own up to it ("we consider epilogue slides rumors"... what a load), and bring them back from the dead with nary a scratch. Even when, such as Anders, there's absolutely no reason they couldn't have used a new character. Other choices are given and then thrown out the window too. So you've got Petrice 3-on-2 in an abandoned building and no one knows she's there? Selected to kill her after she tried to kill you? Nope, you're gonna stand aside and let her walk away because the plot says so. Warned Cullen about the Chantry? No dice, stop trying to play this anime like it's a game. But at least NPCs are dealing with the same plot railroading. Just ask Thrask.
But at least they learned the lesson. The DLC's aren't chock full of the exact same garbage. Oh no wait, yes they are. Seeing that you're presented with meaningless choices through Legacy (which of course all works out exactly the same no matter what you do) made me weary enough to read the spoilers for Mark of the Assassin before buying. And wow was I glad I did. I'd have been enraged to find out I actually paid money to play nice with another fascist qunari waste of life.

I like DA2. And no, the constrains are not the fault of DA2 but DAO. In the endgame diashow in DAO you get to know what will happen hundreds of years in the future. This seriously limits everything you can do that would be "world changing".

Modifié par MegumiAzusa, 14 mai 2012 - 02:06 .


#56973
TSA_383

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MegumiAzusa wrote...

Yes, under unknown conditions the LegendSave file is overwritten.


Unknown you say?.....

#56974
MegumiAzusa

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TSA_383 wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Yes, under unknown conditions the LegendSave file is overwritten.


Unknown you say?.....

At least I don't know them. The "proof" would be that the LegendSave of my second playthrough is not as old as the first save of my third (NewGame+)

Modifié par MegumiAzusa, 14 mai 2012 - 02:09 .


#56975
Icinix

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MegumiAzusa wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Yes, under unknown conditions the LegendSave file is overwritten.


Unknown you say?.....

At least I don't know them. The "proof" would be that the LegendSave of my second playthrough is not as old as the first of my third (NewGame+)


I haven't done a newgame+, but I would imagine there is a good chance the legendsave would be overwritten in that scenario.