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Was the ending a hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory


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#57001
SS2Dante

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MegumiAzusa wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

Yeah, so pretty sure that Shepards gun turns into a Predator when the destroy tube explodes. Can you guys verify?

Look, here. (for ease of viewing, go to HD and full screen)



At 1.15, pause and check the gun. It doesn't have the arch bits on top. It's the Predator, not the carnifex.

If you choose destroy, Shep gets his gun back :D

Good catch!
Seems like all the negative gun scenes in the game use the carnifex... if you shoot mordin, carnifex, if you shoot wrex, carnifex, you shoot anderson, carnifex.
Shoot the destroy tube... :pinched:
Also, about the other two endings also loading the red cinematic - where did you find that info in Umodel?

Confirmed
Posted Image


Btw Megumi, I've sent that pic to parabolees blog with an explanation, hope that's ok?

#57002
MegumiAzusa

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TSA_383 wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Yes, under unknown conditions the LegendSave file is overwritten.


Unknown you say?.....

At least I don't know them. The "proof" would be that the LegendSave of my second playthrough is not as old as the first save of my third (NewGame+)


Curious, so you successfully wrote over your original Legendsave effectively? Or was it a new career?

Perhaps it can overwrite when reaching the end again with NewGame+?
What were the circumstances at the end of your second/third playthroughs?

Posted Image
The career in the background is derived from the career in the foreground with an import/NewGame+. As you can see the date for the LegendSave is 5/6/2012 while Save_0001 is dated 5/5/2012.

I also see you've got a quicksave from minutes earlier - did you do the "choice" again?

It actually was a few hours ago (timezone), and yes I picked another choice.

So what was the difference in choice?
EMS Different or anything else or just choice?

I tried any choice, EMS should be the same. Paragon/Renegade score was different.

#57003
SS2Dante

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TSA_383 wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

By the way, TSA, you're the sound guy, is there any way you could check

a) Shepard waking up after getting hit by the beam. He/she whispers "no" several times (seemingly randomly) but I'm sure this happens layered over the existing rough breathing. Basically I suspect Shepard isn't actually saying it aloud. Any way you could check? :P

B) the noise you hear when you fire a gun in the crucible room. It sounds like a Ravager hiss or something

Me not a sound guy, but I swear they're both off.


I could, but apparently I'm an idiot because I can't find the folder with the small-arms weapon sounds in it :lol:


Yeah I'm having trouble with the sound stuff. Models and stuff easy, sounds...notso much :P

#57004
MegumiAzusa

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SS2Dante wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

Yeah, so pretty sure that Shepards gun turns into a Predator when the destroy tube explodes. Can you guys verify?

Look, here. (for ease of viewing, go to HD and full screen)



At 1.15, pause and check the gun. It doesn't have the arch bits on top. It's the Predator, not the carnifex.

If you choose destroy, Shep gets his gun back :D

Good catch!
Seems like all the negative gun scenes in the game use the carnifex... if you shoot mordin, carnifex, if you shoot wrex, carnifex, you shoot anderson, carnifex.
Shoot the destroy tube... :pinched:
Also, about the other two endings also loading the red cinematic - where did you find that info in Umodel?

Confirmed
Posted Image


Btw Megumi, I've sent that pic to parabolees blog with an explanation, hope that's ok?

The who? :P

#57005
ghostz82

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I always thought indoctrination would be a renegade choice in the end but instead you could choose to become them and control them not be controlled which is probably a better option anyways. What I don't get is why controlling them seems like the paragon choice and destroying them looks like it was the renegade choice strange. On a side note remember you never officially see Shepard die when you destroy the reapers that usually always means you survived and can still be alive note the last breath scene you see in the end. That can go either way you could be dead also and that could be a scene of you taking your last breath.

#57006
TSA_383

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SS2Dante wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

By the way, TSA, you're the sound guy, is there any way you could check

a) Shepard waking up after getting hit by the beam. He/she whispers "no" several times (seemingly randomly) but I'm sure this happens layered over the existing rough breathing. Basically I suspect Shepard isn't actually saying it aloud. Any way you could check? :P

B) the noise you hear when you fire a gun in the crucible room. It sounds like a Ravager hiss or something

Me not a sound guy, but I swear they're both off.


I could, but apparently I'm an idiot because I can't find the folder with the small-arms weapon sounds in it :lol:


Yeah I'm having trouble with the sound stuff. Models and stuff easy, sounds...notso much :P

It doesn't help that the game can pull sounds from multiple folders, so just because something's not in the folder for that scene doesn't mean there's not a sneaky bit of code to load it.
Like in the "weird sounds" thread - there's an amazing video (put your volume WAY up):


#57007
SS2Dante

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MegumiAzusa wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

Yeah, so pretty sure that Shepards gun turns into a Predator when the destroy tube explodes. Can you guys verify?

Look, here. (for ease of viewing, go to HD and full screen)



At 1.15, pause and check the gun. It doesn't have the arch bits on top. It's the Predator, not the carnifex.

If you choose destroy, Shep gets his gun back :D

Good catch!
Seems like all the negative gun scenes in the game use the carnifex... if you shoot mordin, carnifex, if you shoot wrex, carnifex, you shoot anderson, carnifex.
Shoot the destroy tube... :pinched:
Also, about the other two endings also loading the red cinematic - where did you find that info in Umodel?

Confirmed
Posted Image


Btw Megumi, I've sent that pic to parabolees blog with an explanation, hope that's ok?

The who? :P


This thingamibob

http://parabolee.blogspot.co.uk/ 

Figure it's probably the best collection of evidence, since the person actually checks the stuff that's put up.

EDIT - I should probably not use non-existant words like thingamibob when I'm on a forum with people who aren't native speakers. Silly me :P

Modifié par SS2Dante, 14 mai 2012 - 02:55 .


#57008
SS2Dante

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TSA_383 wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

By the way, TSA, you're the sound guy, is there any way you could check

a) Shepard waking up after getting hit by the beam. He/she whispers "no" several times (seemingly randomly) but I'm sure this happens layered over the existing rough breathing. Basically I suspect Shepard isn't actually saying it aloud. Any way you could check? :P

B) the noise you hear when you fire a gun in the crucible room. It sounds like a Ravager hiss or something

Me not a sound guy, but I swear they're both off.


I could, but apparently I'm an idiot because I can't find the folder with the small-arms weapon sounds in it :lol:


Yeah I'm having trouble with the sound stuff. Models and stuff easy, sounds...notso much :P

It doesn't help that the game can pull sounds from multiple folders, so just because something's not in the folder for that scene doesn't mean there's not a sneaky bit of code to load it.
Like in the "weird sounds" thread - there's an amazing video (put your volume WAY up):



Didn't someone (was it Epyon?) say that he did a flycam in the normandy and there's people under the floors or something?

#57009
MegumiAzusa

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SS2Dante wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

By the way, TSA, you're the sound guy, is there any way you could check

a) Shepard waking up after getting hit by the beam. He/she whispers "no" several times (seemingly randomly) but I'm sure this happens layered over the existing rough breathing. Basically I suspect Shepard isn't actually saying it aloud. Any way you could check? :P

B) the noise you hear when you fire a gun in the crucible room. It sounds like a Ravager hiss or something

Me not a sound guy, but I swear they're both off.


I could, but apparently I'm an idiot because I can't find the folder with the small-arms weapon sounds in it :lol:


Yeah I'm having trouble with the sound stuff. Models and stuff easy, sounds...notso much :P

It doesn't help that the game can pull sounds from multiple folders, so just because something's not in the folder for that scene doesn't mean there's not a sneaky bit of code to load it.
Like in the "weird sounds" thread - there's an amazing video (put your volume WAY up):



Didn't someone (was it Epyon?) say that he did a flycam in the normandy and there's people under the floors or something?

Yes he said that.
Edit: umodel GUI lists all package references, so you can see which folders are loaded.

Modifié par MegumiAzusa, 14 mai 2012 - 03:01 .


#57010
TSA_383

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SS2Dante wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

By the way, TSA, you're the sound guy, is there any way you could check

a) Shepard waking up after getting hit by the beam. He/she whispers "no" several times (seemingly randomly) but I'm sure this happens layered over the existing rough breathing. Basically I suspect Shepard isn't actually saying it aloud. Any way you could check? :P

B) the noise you hear when you fire a gun in the crucible room. It sounds like a Ravager hiss or something

Me not a sound guy, but I swear they're both off.


I could, but apparently I'm an idiot because I can't find the folder with the small-arms weapon sounds in it :lol:


Yeah I'm having trouble with the sound stuff. Models and stuff easy, sounds...notso much :P

It doesn't help that the game can pull sounds from multiple folders, so just because something's not in the folder for that scene doesn't mean there's not a sneaky bit of code to load it.
Like in the "weird sounds" thread - there's an amazing video (put your volume WAY up):



Didn't someone (was it Epyon?) say that he did a flycam in the normandy and there's people under the floors or something?

They're used to add ambient footsteps that sound different from different areas ;)

#57011
Rosewind

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SS2Dante wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

By the way, TSA, you're the sound guy, is there any way you could check

a) Shepard waking up after getting hit by the beam. He/she whispers "no" several times (seemingly randomly) but I'm sure this happens layered over the existing rough breathing. Basically I suspect Shepard isn't actually saying it aloud. Any way you could check? :P

B) the noise you hear when you fire a gun in the crucible room. It sounds like a Ravager hiss or something

Me not a sound guy, but I swear they're both off.


I could, but apparently I'm an idiot because I can't find the folder with the small-arms weapon sounds in it :lol:


Yeah I'm having trouble with the sound stuff. Models and stuff easy, sounds...notso much :P

It doesn't help that the game can pull sounds from multiple folders, so just because something's not in the folder for that scene doesn't mean there's not a sneaky bit of code to load it.
Like in the "weird sounds" thread - there's an amazing video (put your volume WAY up):



Didn't someone (was it Epyon?) say that he did a flycam in the normandy and there's people under the floors or something?


I just did it in the captains cabin and the two ladies from the gate and Engineer Adams down there.

#57012
SS2Dante

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Hmm. Who wants to explain to me why pieces of a Geth Dreadnought are in the Crucible bit?

I'll wait :)

#57013
MegumiAzusa

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Rosewind wrote...

I just did it in the captains cabin and the two ladies from the gate and Engineer Adams down there.

Btw why has even Shep to wait when entering/exiting the war room. What is scanned for? Weapons? Indoctrination? Jellybeans?

#57014
DirtyPhoenix

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I feel ashamed of myself. i played that end scene many times and not once noticed that shep has two guns in that scene >_<

#57015
Rosewind

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MegumiAzusa wrote...

Rosewind wrote...

I just did it in the captains cabin and the two ladies from the gate and Engineer Adams down there.

Btw why has even Shep to wait when entering/exiting the war room. What is scanned for? Weapons? Indoctrination? Jellybeans?


I think it is a loading thing like the elevator.

#57016
MegumiAzusa

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pirate1802 wrote...

I feel ashamed of myself. i played that end scene many times and not once noticed that shep has two guns in that scene >_<

You get the second gun just for the scene, and it gets swapped out, that is still quite strange.

#57017
SS2Dante

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pirate1802 wrote...

I feel ashamed of myself. i played that end scene many times and not once noticed that shep has two guns in that scene >_<


I knew the game had loaded the model but it still took me a few minutes to be sure I'd found it so don't beat yourself up ;)

#57018
MegumiAzusa

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Rosewind wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Rosewind wrote...

I just did it in the captains cabin and the two ladies from the gate and Engineer Adams down there.

Btw why has even Shep to wait when entering/exiting the war room. What is scanned for? Weapons? Indoctrination? Jellybeans?


I think it is a loading thing like the elevator.

Areas are stream in much smoother, notice sometimes a Loading pops up on the third deck when going from Labs/Gun Control to the elevator/observation decks.

#57019
Stigweird85

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Arian Dynas wrote...

I'm not saying Bioware are gods, but considering that half the games in my library that I call "good" come from them, and considering the sheer number of games they turned out that I call my favorites, I think they've earned both a bit of trust, and some breathing room.


Totally agreed, some of the hate vitriol that some so called "fans" have been spouting makes me ashamed to be in the same group as them. While I was playing the game I starte dto see some of the negative comments appear online - I didn't read them but as I played through the game I started to fear that Shepard was the Catalyst and that he would need to be Space Jesus(i.e. he would need to choose die but by dying he would save the galaxy) which personally I found as cliched.

When I got to the end and the choices I hesitated for a minute or two before asking myself why am I thinking about this, I have set off to destroy the Reapers since way back in Mass Effect 1, the situation hasn't changed, it's not like I was presented an option for peaceful coexistantance so I picked destroy.  I found it a little odd that Edi and my LI stepped of the Normandy(they were both in my part during the attack) but I was realtivly happy as I had achieved what I had set out to do.

Could it have been better? Yes, could it have been worse - hell yes. Then I started looking at peoples responses in this thread and an okay ending started to become a great ending - even if IT is never confirmed I will still believe it to be true until I am categorically told it isn't true and even then I'll reject that reality and substitue my own Posted Image

I have had I Trust Bioware in my signature since I became re-active on the board and I stand still stand by it, I will be buying the next Bioware game and any DLC they offer and I will buy Mass Effect merchandise(although probably only physical items)

While I don't agree with everything that has been said on this thread I do feel that I am not alone in my sentiments towards Bioware as a company and I am glad that a very vocal percentage( I won't say majority or minority) hasn't silenced the conversation.

Anyway that's the end of my ramblings, I hope it was coherent as I know when I write my thoughts tend to come out scrambled. If it makes no sense think of it as a wall of text as a repayment for all of yours in the pastPosted Image

Modifié par bigstig, 14 mai 2012 - 04:01 .


#57020
MegumiAzusa

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MegumiAzusa wrote...

pirate1802 wrote...

I feel ashamed of myself. i played that end scene many times and not once noticed that shep has two guns in that scene >_<

You get the second gun just for the scene, and it gets swapped out, that is still quite strange.

Btw the second gun is only displayed if you load a savegame that is saved just when shooting at that thing as it was loaded by the game at that point. However it is not displayed if played through continuously.

#57021
SS2Dante

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MegumiAzusa wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

pirate1802 wrote...

I feel ashamed of myself. i played that end scene many times and not once noticed that shep has two guns in that scene >_<

You get the second gun just for the scene, and it gets swapped out, that is still quite strange.

Btw the second gun is only displayed if you load a savegame that is saved just when shooting at that thing as it was loaded by the game at that point. However it is not displayed if played through continuously.


Wait, are we still talking about the Predator/Carnifex thing?

#57022
MegumiAzusa

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SS2Dante wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

pirate1802 wrote...

I feel ashamed of myself. i played that end scene many times and not once noticed that shep has two guns in that scene >_<

You get the second gun just for the scene, and it gets swapped out, that is still quite strange.

Btw the second gun is only displayed if you load a savegame that is saved just when shooting at that thing as it was loaded by the game at that point. However it is not displayed if played through continuously.


Wait, are we still talking about the Predator/Carnifex thing?

Yes. In my screenshots you see in the third image Shep is already carrying the Predator. This isn't visible if loaded earlier (like the child disappearing) as the Predator is loaded when firing the shots at that thing.
I Alt+F4ed out the first time because I noticed I didn't have Fraps running.

Modifié par MegumiAzusa, 14 mai 2012 - 03:19 .


#57023
DirtyPhoenix

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bigstig wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

I'm not saying Bioware are gods, but considering that half the games in my library that I call "good" come from them, and considering the sheer number of games they turned out that I call my favorites, I think they've earned both a bit of trust, and some breathing room.


Totally agreed, some of the hate vitriol that some so called "fans" have been spouting makes me ashamed to be in the same group as them. While I was playing the game I starte dto see some of the negative comments appear online - I didn't read them but as I played through the game I started to fear that Shepard was the Catalyst and that he would need to be Space Jesus(i.e. he would need to choose die but by dying he would save the galaxy) which personally I found as cliched.

When I got to the end and the choices I hesitated for a minute or two before asking myself why am I thinking about this, I have set off to destroy the Reapers since way back in Mass Effect 1, the situation hasn't changed, it's not like I was presented an option for peaceful coexistantance so I picked destroy.  I found it a little odd that Edi and my LI stepped of the Normandy(they were both in my part during the attack) but I was realtivly happy as I had achieved what I had set out to do.

Could it have been better? Yes, could it have been worse - hell yes. Then I started looking at peoples responses in this thread and an okay ending started to become a great ending - even if IT is never confirmed I will still believe it to be true until I am categorically told it isn't true and even then I'll reject that reality and substitue my own Posted Image

I have had I Trust Bioware in my signature since I became re-active on the board and I stand still stand by it, I will be buying the next Bioware game and any DLC they offer and I will buy Mass Effect merchandise(although probably only physical items)

While I don't agree with everything that has been said on this thread I do feel that I am not alone in my sentiments towards Bioware as a company and I am glad that a very vocal percentage( I won't say majority or minority) hasn't silenced the conversation.

Anyway that's the end of my ramblings, I hope it was coherent as I know when I write my thoughts tend to come out scrambled. If it makes no sense think of it as a well of text as a repayment for all of yours in the pastPosted Image


I agree with you! And you had EDI walk out in a destroy ending? WTF!

#57024
SS2Dante

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MegumiAzusa wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

pirate1802 wrote...

I feel ashamed of myself. i played that end scene many times and not once noticed that shep has two guns in that scene >_<

You get the second gun just for the scene, and it gets swapped out, that is still quite strange.

Btw the second gun is only displayed if you load a savegame that is saved just when shooting at that thing as it was loaded by the game at that point. However it is not displayed if played through continuously.


Wait, are we still talking about the Predator/Carnifex thing?

Yes. In my screenshots you see in the third image Shep is already carrying the Predator. This isn't visible if loaded earlier (like the child disappearing) as the Predator is loaded when firing the shots at that thing.
I Alt+F4ed out the first time because I noticed I didn't have Fraps running.


The image from the back? Cos, eh , Megumi, that's not a Predator, that's the carnifex. You can see the two indentations that run along the top, the red strip that has DXC written on it (in the image above), and the gun doesn't have the large white strip.

Maybe you meant the 5th image? Maybe :S

Modifié par SS2Dante, 14 mai 2012 - 03:23 .


#57025
TSA_383

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SS2Dante wrote...

Hmm. Who wants to explain to me why pieces of a Geth Dreadnought are in the Crucible bit?

I'll wait :)

There's a lot of re-used stuff. Could just be regular old re-used textures for convenience, could be something more...

Check out the end_antenna with the logo from anderson's gun, it's used as a bridge support in the citadel anderson/tim scene but I can't work out where else it is.