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[IronSabbath88]

M U P P 3 T Z wrote...

Kitten Tactics wrote...

It seems odd that it would be timed for the EXACT moment that Shepard turns away.

Perhaps to reinforce the sense of urgency that Shepard and Anderson need to move.  The same noise can be heard at 1:37  (the background noise, and not the piece of metal they're moving).  I think it's just a generic Reaper noise.  From my point of view, I think the beginning interactions with the child in the beginning actually happened.  It's something that has haunted Shepard and continues to dwell on his head, which is something the Reaper was able to manipulate later on.  The child has become a representation of Shepard's futility.

This.

[humes spork]

krystalevenstar wrote...

That growling might match the 'ominous tone' I mentioned in the last dream sequence when Phantom Shep, embracing the child, makes eye contact with real Shep. Daaaammn, we might actually be unraveling this thing.... but at the same time I'm internally kicking myself for getting my hopes up XD

Not to mention that really creepy-ass evil smile on phantom Shep's face as s/he was embracing the kid. The pucker magnitude on that was off the damn charts and worse than anything else in the entire game, including the Ardat-Yakshi monastery or the gorn hallway on the Citadel. That look was like Rosemary's Baby met the Blair Witch in a dark alley and had a demon baby that lived in Silent Hill.

Modifié par humes spork, 11 mars 2012 - 12:54 .

[mupp3tz]

Also, from the Art Book it says on the page for the child: "One child would be the face of the people on Earth whom Shepard could not save." His appearance is odd, because in past ME entries... we have NEVER seen a kid. I think it's just a case of Bioware trying to pull on emotional archetypes. The child is innocence and humanity wrapped up in one. The godchild at the end is a distorted version of this.

[lookingglassmind]

humes spork wrote...

Not to mention that really creepy-ass evil smile on phantom Shep's face as s/he was embracing the kid. That look on phantom Shepard's face creeped me out more than anything else in the entire game, including the Ardat-Yakshi monastery or the gorn hallway on the Citadel. That look was like Rosemary's Baby met the Blair Witch in a dark alley and had a demon baby that lived in Silent Hill.

I thought that was just sh*tty face mechanics, but I dig where you're going with the observation.

[deadshame]

I felt like the whole thing after getting hit with the laser or whatever was very dream/hallucination like. I don't now, I kinda hope so though.

[lookingglassmind]

M U P P 3 T Z wrote...

Also, from the Art Book it says on the page for the child: "One child would be the face of the people on Earth whom Shepard could not save." His appearance is odd, because in past ME entries... we have NEVER seen a kid. I think it's just a case of Bioware trying to pull on emotional archetypes. The child is innocence and humanity wrapped up in one. The godchild at the end is a distorted version of this.

Thank you for giving us that descriptor.

However, I think this only makes the theory more comfortable to try on. Would it just be beautifully insidious and creepifying for Harbinger to take this form precisely because of its archetypal capabilities? It's the perfect thing to use, really.

[Kitten Tactics]

M U P P 3 T Z wrote...

Also, from the Art Book it says on the page for the child: "One child would be the face of the people on Earth whom Shepard could not save." His appearance is odd, because in past ME entries... we have NEVER seen a kid. I think it's just a case of Bioware trying to pull on emotional archetypes. The child is innocence and humanity wrapped up in one. The godchild at the end is a distorted version of this.

The Catalyst is the creator of the Reapers.  It would use the same image to entice Shepard that is has been using all along...

[humes spork]

lookingglassmind wrote...

I thought that was just sh*tty face mechanics, but I dig where you're going with the observation.

Nah, sh*tty game mechanics tend towards unintentional hilarity rather than...that. Case in point, Shepard rapeface or Anderson's enema...I mean, run animation. That look on phantom Shepard's face was just pants-sh*ttingly terrifying.

[Kitten Tactics]

I have compiled some of the evidence here. What's missing/wrong?

-The endgame scenario is Indoctrination/Manipulation from the Reapers (Harbinger) trying to force you into choosing to let the Reapers live. Shepard is not awake during the final scenes.

-Choosing Control - You can not control them, they control you. Shepard says as much to the Illusive Man moments earlier.

-Choosing Synthesis - Allows everyone in the galaxy to be manipulated by Reaper code, like they have done to the Geth multiple times now.

-Choosing Destroy - Breaks the hold the reapers have on Shepard's mind.

-Choosing to destroy all synthetic life option is more Renegade in appearence. Controlling the Reapers is more Paragon in appearence. The Illusive Man's choice should not be Paragon colors, just as Anderson's choice should not be Renegade. The reapers are saying that Destroy is the worst, Control is worse, and Synthesis is the best. They want you to fail.

-Stating that all sythetic life will be destroyed will give you pause; destroying the Geth can force you to a different conclusion. This choice exists for the illusion of choice; the other choices are ment to sound better.

-Shepard wakes up after Destroy, because the Reaper's hold is diminished. Shepard does not awake in the other 2 "endings" because you are fully indoctrinated by the choices you made to allow the Reapers to win. "Assuming Control!"

-The child does not actually exist. He is an attempt to indoctrinate Shepard. Nobody but Shepard ever sees or interacts with the child.

-When Anderson calls for Shepard at the beginning of the game, when Shepard is talking to the child, Shepard turns back and the child is gone. Shepard has been "snapped out of it".

-When Shepard turns towards Anderson after being "snapped out of it", a growl is heard. In the third novel, when Greyson resisted the reapers they would make a growling noise once they realized they didn't have him under complete control.

-During Shepard's final dream with the child, chatter can be heard over the radio about nobody making it to the beam. Shepard is still in London.

-When Shepard catches the child in the final dream, they are both engulfed in flame. Going with the child (the reapers) means Shepard's destruction.

-Shepard has spent alot of time around Reapers. Soveriegn, various Reaper artifacts, the Human Reaper, 2 Reaper destroyers, the Artifact from "The Arrival." Its foolish to assume there is not some level of indoctrination.

-When Shepard wakes up at the end of Destroy, he/she is waking up in London, after being hit with the laser.

[mupp3tz]

Okay, let's just agree on this: Creepy godchild is creepy. -- regardless, the whole ending is still very surreal, lending strong notion to the suggestion that it is, in some part, a hallucination of some sort.

You know the thing that kills me is this WHOLE thread and all the different things we've talked about make so much more sense than what Bioware gave us. I feel like talking to everyone here, specifically this thread, has allowed me to accept ME3 more than I had after initially seeing the troll ending.

[lookingglassmind]

Nice work, Kitten.

[MPSai]

Lotarion wrote...

ok so about the KID. He is not real. Why? 

Just hit "New Game". The same Kid is playing with a Normandy model and Shepard is looking at him when Vega comes in. FIRST SCENE OF THE GAME! Isn't it wierd that same Kid is later hidding? He said "You cannot save me" - abandon all hope Shepard! And he dissapears without a single sound. And then Shepard sees him for THIRD freakin time dying in a blast. I don't know about you guys but to me it is a bit wierd...

P.S. Sorry for my bad english, it's late and my in-head translator is almost asleep.

Yeah but the teleporting child could easily just be bad writing/planning... 

[Kitten Tactics]

RussianOrc wrote...I've also noticed by watching the ending that the destroy option is the only one wich shepard don't look like a husk before his death.anyone saw that?

[Valk72]

Well, Mike Gamble tweet are weird to : "We wouldn’t do it any other way. How could you go through all three campaigns playing as your Shepard and then be forced into a bespoke ending that everyone gets? But I can’t say any more than that…"

I'm the only one to find this declaration really really weird?

[lookingglassmind]

M U P P 3 T Z wrote...

You know the thing that kills me is this WHOLE thread and all the different things we've talked about make so much more sense than what Bioware gave us. I feel like talking to everyone here, specifically this thread, has allowed me to accept ME3 more than I had after initially seeing the troll ending.

This. A million times this. Mike Gamble's call for the population/BioWare to wait before reacting to the immediate sh*tstorm was, I feel, a well-placed judgment call. Even if our theory is completely defunct, I feel one thousand times better about the series and ME3's replayability after talking with all of you.

[withinthelight]

lookingglassmind wrote...

M U P P 3 T Z wrote...

Also, from the Art Book it says on the page for the child: "One child would be the face of the people on Earth whom Shepard could not save." His appearance is odd, because in past ME entries... we have NEVER seen a kid. I think it's just a case of Bioware trying to pull on emotional archetypes. The child is innocence and humanity wrapped up in one. The godchild at the end is a distorted version of this.

Thank you for giving us that descriptor.

However, I think this only makes the theory more comfortable to try on. Would it just be beautifully insidious and creepifying for Harbinger to take this form precisely because of its archetypal capabilities? It's the perfect thing to use, really.

Not only that but how would the reapers (or anything really) know to use the image of the child unless they were inside Shepard's head?

[lookingglassmind]

Kitten Tactics wrote...

RussianOrc wrote...I've also noticed by watching the ending that the destroy option is the only one wich shepard don't look like a husk before his death.anyone saw that?

What? Can someone elaborate?  I only did Destroy.

[Kitten Tactics]

That's actually a really good point as well

[krystalevenstar]

Kitten Tactics wrote...
-Choosing to destroy all synthetic life option is more Renegade in appearence. Controlling the Reapers is more Paragon in appearence. The Illusive Man's choice should not be Paragon colors, just as Anderson's choice should not be Renegade. The reapers are saying that Destroy is the worst, Control is worse, and Synthesis is the best. They want you to fail.

I don't think I had even considered that until now. I mean I noticed that the Control option was blue, which made it appear like the paragon option, and destory as the renegade, but I still went with destroy since that's what Shepard has been trying to accomplish, but when the child explained the options and showed TIM as good and Anderson as bad, it didn't even register. I've got no hesitations now about saying i'm 100% convinced this ending is Shepard having an indoctrinated hallucination.

[Kitten Tactics]

lookingglassmind wrote...

Kitten Tactics wrote...

RussianOrc wrote...I've also noticed by watching the ending that the destroy option is the only one wich shepard don't look like a husk before his death.anyone saw that?

What? Can someone elaborate?  I only did Destroy.

In Synthesis and Control, Shepard's skin turns black and she/he begins to take the appearance of a husk.  This could be a metaphor for falling under Reaper control.

[Illusive]

Kitten Tactics wrote...

I have compiled some of the evidence here. What's missing/wrong?

-The endgame scenario is Indoctrination/Manipulation from the Reapers (Harbinger) trying to force you into choosing to let the Reapers live. Shepard is not awake during the final scenes.

-Choosing Control - You can not control them, they control you. Shepard says as much to the Illusive Man moments earlier.

-Choosing Synthesis - Allows everyone in the galaxy to be manipulated by Reaper code, like they have done to the Geth multiple times now.

-Choosing Destroy - Breaks the hold the reapers have on Shepard's mind.

-Choosing to destroy all synthetic life option is more Renegade in appearence. Controlling the Reapers is more Paragon in appearence. The Illusive Man's choice should not be Paragon colors, just as Anderson's choice should not be Renegade. The reapers are saying that Destroy is the worst, Control is worse, and Synthesis is the best. They want you to fail.

-Stating that all sythetic life will be destroyed will give you pause; destroying the Geth can force you to a different conclusion. This choice exists for the illusion of choice; the other choices are ment to sound better.

-Shepard wakes up after Destroy, because the Reaper's hold is diminished. Shepard does not awake in the other 2 "endings" because you are fully indoctrinated by the choices you made to allow the Reapers to win. "Assuming Control!"

-The child does not actually exist. He is an attempt to indoctrinate Shepard. Nobody but Shepard ever sees or interacts with the child.

-When Anderson calls for Shepard at the beginning of the game, when Shepard is talking to the child, Shepard turns back and the child is gone. Shepard has been "snapped out of it".

-When Shepard turns towards Anderson after being "snapped out of it", a growl is heard. In the third novel, when Greyson resisted the reapers they would make a growling noise once they realized they didn't have him under complete control.

-During Shepard's final dream with the child, chatter can be heard over the radio about nobody making it to the beam. Shepard is still in London.

-When Shepard catches the child in the final dream, they are both engulfed in flame. Going with the child (the reapers) means Shepard's destruction.

-Shepard has spent alot of time around Reapers. Soveriegn, various Reaper artifacts, the Human Reaper, 2 Reaper destroyers, the Artifact from "The Arrival." Its foolish to assume there is not some level of indoctrination.

-When Shepard wakes up at the end of Destroy, he/she is waking up in London, after being hit with the laser.

Nice. I would also add 2 of Michael Gamble's tweets that suggest that something more is coming.

[Animositisomina]

From the other hallucination thread:

With regards to the "growling sound": It could also be seen as an auditory device used to "snap you out of" an illusion/hypnosis, or whatever you want to call it. Shepard sort of falls into this delusion that he sees a child and then the noise plays a second time, waking him up--returning back to reality, as Anderson calls to him at the same time.

Also note that the Catalyst at the end doesn't tell Shepard to "get up" but rather "wake up". The two could have very different meanings. Get up would mean you're just laying down, physically. Wake up, however, has a more psychological connotation to it.

[humes spork]

lookingglassmind wrote...

What? Can someone elaborate?  I only did Destroy.

You remember how it looked in ME2 when the colonist was getting dissolved? How their skin was melting off and they were taking on a biometallic appearance? That.

[MPSai]

Kitten Tactics wrote...

I have compiled some of the evidence here. What's missing/wrong?

-The endgame scenario is Indoctrination/Manipulation from the Reapers (Harbinger) trying to force you into choosing to let the Reapers live. Shepard is not awake during the final scenes.

-Choosing Control - You can not control them, they control you. Shepard says as much to the Illusive Man moments earlier.

-Choosing Synthesis - Allows everyone in the galaxy to be manipulated by Reaper code, like they have done to the Geth multiple times now.

-Choosing Destroy - Breaks the hold the reapers have on Shepard's mind.

-Choosing to destroy all synthetic life option is more Renegade in appearence. Controlling the Reapers is more Paragon in appearence. The Illusive Man's choice should not be Paragon colors, just as Anderson's choice should not be Renegade. The reapers are saying that Destroy is the worst, Control is worse, and Synthesis is the best. They want you to fail.

-Stating that all sythetic life will be destroyed will give you pause; destroying the Geth can force you to a different conclusion. This choice exists for the illusion of choice; the other choices are ment to sound better.

-Shepard wakes up after Destroy, because the Reaper's hold is diminished. Shepard does not awake in the other 2 "endings" because you are fully indoctrinated by the choices you made to allow the Reapers to win. "Assuming Control!"

-The child does not actually exist. He is an attempt to indoctrinate Shepard. Nobody but Shepard ever sees or interacts with the child.

-When Anderson calls for Shepard at the beginning of the game, when Shepard is talking to the child, Shepard turns back and the child is gone. Shepard has been "snapped out of it".

-When Shepard turns towards Anderson after being "snapped out of it", a growl is heard. In the third novel, when Greyson resisted the reapers they would make a growling noise once they realized they didn't have him under complete control.

-During Shepard's final dream with the child, chatter can be heard over the radio about nobody making it to the beam. Shepard is still in London.

-When Shepard catches the child in the final dream, they are both engulfed in flame. Going with the child (the reapers) means Shepard's destruction.

-Shepard has spent alot of time around Reapers. Soveriegn, various Reaper artifacts, the Human Reaper, 2 Reaper destroyers, the Artifact from "The Arrival." Its foolish to assume there is not some level of indoctrination.

-When Shepard wakes up at the end of Destroy, he/she is waking up in London, after being hit with the laser.

This needs to be like sticked at the top of the forums. If this isn't Bioware's idea for an expansion it needs to be wrapped up in a bow and shipped to them.

[omgBAMF]

lookingglassmind wrote...

Kitten Tactics wrote...

RussianOrc wrote...I've also noticed by watching the ending that the destroy option is the only one wich shepard don't look like a husk before his death.anyone saw that?

What? Can someone elaborate?  I only did Destroy.

Just check out YT vids of the control and synthesis endings.  Shep's face goes all black and.... electronic looking, like he's being turned.