57139 réponses à ce sujet

[LolaLei]

Something else I noticed:

The God Child tells you that if you choose to destroy the Reapers then all synthetic life will die, BUT he also reminds you that Shepard is also part synthetic, however Shep can survive the blast if your score is high enough. This to me suggests that the little **** was lying in order to get you to join the Reapers. Perhaps destroying the reapers doesn't kill EDI or the Geth after all.

Modifié par LolaLei, 13 mars 2012 - 02:39 .

[Dame_shandril]

There something I noticed that no one have talked in the first 38 page of this thread.

When you meet Miranda in the citadel( the third time?) She apologize about the fact that when she worked on project lazarus she proposed to install a control device on you but TIM said no to that. still in the end he control you when you shoot Anderson. Many time in the game you face the fear that maybe cerberus as some way to control you(Ashley do not trust you at the beginning because of that .etc).

It could be another thing that point to a dream or hallucination And if this is not an hallucination then TIM control you trough indoctrination since cerberus as not put any control device on you.

[Getorex]

BlackDragonBane wrote...

SomeBug wrote...

I have a question, could someone answer it for me? I haven't kept up with the thread.

On Thessia, Shepard talks with the Prothean VI for a few minutes and it describes to him the purpose of the Crucible and its inception.

Then Kai Leng shows up and it says 'indoctrinated presence detected' and shuts down.

If Shepard was indoctrinated, why didn't it detect that he was, only Kai Leng? It seemingly has a device or function which enables it to detect indoctrinated people, even at range. Yet Shepard doesn't trigger these alarms.

This happens like right before the final mission too, long after the point where he first saw the child.

It's been explained several pages back but the reason the VI didn't detect indoctrination in Shepard because it can't detect the indoctrination unless it is at critical levels. Kai Leng was fulling indoctrinated and like has Reaper-based implants and prosthetics.

Wow.  Rationalize like crazy. 

Don't do that cuz it wont fix the ending.  It is best to play the game up to the goofy part at the end and then just stop (and wait to see if a rational DLC is soon to be forthcoming).  They have to do something to stop the bleeding.  Six days after official release and the price for both the regular and collector's edition is already down $10. 

[SomeBug]

BlackDragonBane wrote...

SomeBug wrote...

I have a question, could someone answer it for me? I haven't kept up with the thread.

On Thessia, Shepard talks with the Prothean VI for a few minutes and it describes to him the purpose of the Crucible and its inception.

Then Kai Leng shows up and it says 'indoctrinated presence detected' and shuts down.

If Shepard was indoctrinated, why didn't it detect that he was, only Kai Leng? It seemingly has a device or function which enables it to detect indoctrinated people, even at range. Yet Shepard doesn't trigger these alarms.

This happens like right before the final mission too, long after the point where he first saw the child.

It's been explained several pages back but the reason the VI didn't detect indoctrination in Shepard because it can't detect the indoctrination unless it is at critical levels. Kai Leng was fulling indoctrinated and like has Reaper-based implants and prosthetics.

Are you seriously suggesting this is the case? It's a hell of a reach.

[Vikali]

LolaLei wrote...

Something else I noticed:

The God Child tells you that if you choose to destroy the Reapers then all synthetic life will die, BUT he also reminds you that Shepard is also part synthetic, however Shep can survive the blast if your score is high enough. This to me suggests that the little **** was lying in order to get you to join the Reapers. Perhaps destroying the reapers doesn't kill EDI or the Geth after all.

See, that's what I believed. That the little dipnit was just trying to trick you. Especially with the 'bug' where EDI has walked out of the Normandy in some people's Destroys.

[thePredator50]

@JessicaMerizan I just finished the game today, and just... Have way more questions than answers. Not what I was expecting at all.

@Xarathos if you just finished today then I would advise that you sit down (AFK) with a warm beverage & think about it a bit Seriously.



This is getting very obvious at this point.

[JediNg]

SomeBug wrote...

I have a question, could someone answer it for me? I haven't kept up with the thread.

On Thessia, Shepard talks with the Prothean VI for a few minutes and it describes to him the purpose of the Crucible and its inception.

Then Kai Leng shows up and it says 'indoctrinated presence detected' and shuts down.

If Shepard was indoctrinated, why didn't it detect that he was, only Kai Leng? It seemingly has a device or function which enables it to detect indoctrinated people, even at range. Yet Shepard doesn't trigger these alarms.

This happens like right before the final mission too, long after the point where he first saw the child.

Shepard isn't indoctrinated.  The idea is that shep is being indoctrinated during the dream.

[acManic]

 Hey guys, new here but I've been following (or trying to follow...) this thread since late Saturday when I beat the game. Like other have said many things just don't make sense to the point where it seems it must have been intentional. And at this point even if it wasn't intentional, it would be stupid of the companies to not realize how they could use all of this to their advantage to make a better ending since a lot of people, including myself probably, would pay for a better ending. 

The only thing that makes me feel like it wasn't intentional is using images meant for other things. I can't remember some right now, but I'm pretty sure someone mentioned how something in the end was originally meant for another scene that was scrapped. And I decided to look through the artbook to see if anything was said about this and I found the concept art for the creepy body filled Citadel hallway, which seems like it was meant to be on the Cerberus base before you fight TIM as a husk (also scrapped) and there is some random looking person there with Shepard. They just reused this area in the ending. And that either means they put everything together for a quick new ending OR the mashing of all these strange things at the end prove even more that it's a dream/hallucination thing going on that isn't supposed to make sense. Andd if someone pointed out the hallway already I apologize 

Edit: sorry if there are typos, trying to type this from my phone, not easy haha

Modifié par acManic, 13 mars 2012 - 02:43 .

[Tallis Lucienis]

 The Hallucination theory is actually plausible.

-SPOILERS + EXPLANATION TO FOLLOW-

1. If you choose the Destroy option then you are destroying all synthetic life in the galaxy, however there is the scene in question where Shepard takes a breath. This would be impossible: According to Project LAZARUS, Shepard is rebuilt using Synthetic and Artificial technology cultivated from the remains of Sovereign from the Battle of the Citadel during Mass Effect 1.

Shepard's life would be extinguised with the Geth, EDI and other Synthetic constructs because of the Synthetic and Artificial material placed within his body to keep him alive. There is no possible way that if that was truly the ending, he would be alive. 

2. Synthesis and Control are options presented to you in the sense that they are both the best choices, however both involves Shepard secumbing to indoctrination or death in order to achieve peace in the galaxy. We understand that during Indoctrination, the Indoctrinated host believes whatever he/she is doing is right. Of course the Guardian would paint the option that you have been striving for as the most dire and renegade option of them all. It is an option that woudl hinder the galaxy: What you have been striving for is wrong Shepard, these options, the one's we present to you are better however they involve you giving your life to us. I.E. Fully submit to indoctrination.

3. Each option presents the Citadel being destroyed in the vacuum of space above Earth's orbit. Shepard would not be able to survive such an explosion and survive a crash landing on Earth. We saw the results of this same action at the beginning of Mass Effect 2 with the Collector attack on the SR-1 Normandy. Shepard died in Space but then also his body was greatly destroyed falling to Earth. Granted, Shepard had full body armor and did yes die in space but in the end events Shepards armor is greatly destroyed and reduced to rubble, nor is he wearing a helmet. Not only would the explosion ensure his demise but the vacuum of space and reentry into Earth's atmosphere would incinerate his form, whatever is left of it. 

The halluncination theory may actually be correct, I do believe that if this is true then the ending may have just gone from ****ty to amazing. The Destroy option, the option we have been striving for, is the best option available, it may seem renegade...but only to a mind indoctrinated by those who strive to ensure they are not destroyed. 

Modifié par Tallis Lucienis, 13 mars 2012 - 02:43 .

[Gibb_Shepard]

Pyewacket wrote...

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

It wasn't a hallucination. Bioware wouldn't have provided people with one right choice, and two wrong ones.

It may seem like a dream sequence because of how abrupt and completely incoherent it was, but it wasn't.

Uh, do you have any evidence that supports that theory other than, "Bioware wouldn't do that."?

Haha. The ending is not a hallucination. Why? Because Bioware said from the beginning that no matter what, the Reaper threat would be over. Two of three endings make you fail.

This theory is actually WORSE than what we got. Not because it doesn't make sense, because in-game it sure as hell does, but because there is only one right answer. There should not be one right answer, there should be multiple answers that you can justify as being right in your opinion. This theory just makes the game more linear.

The ending was not indoctrination. Wishful thinking is just going to disappoint you.

[VironZ]

I hope this whole thing is a dream and then I just wake up and theres a good ending

[LolaLei]

Dame_shandril wrote...

There something I noticed that no one have talked in the first 38 page of this thread.

When you meet Miranda in the citadel( the third time?) She apologize about the fact that when she worked on project lazarus she proposed to install a control device on you but TIM said no to that. still in the end he control you when you shoot Anderson. Many time in the game you face the fear that maybe cerberus as some way to control you(Ashley do not trust you at the beginning because of that .etc).

It could be another thing that point to a dream or hallucination And if this is not an hallucination then TIM control you trough indoctrination since cerberus as not put any control device on you.

That's a possibility, it could just be Shepard's fears coming out in the hallucination/indoctrination that she might not be who she once was due to Cerberus bringing her back to life. She voices her concerns in the Cerberus base upon the discovery of those videos of her being rebuilt.

[LenabotSE]

If a little reach is good enough for Garrus....

It's fully plausible that Shepard can't be detected by the VI. Vigil stated that the Protheans had trouble detecting indoctrinated organics until the very late stages -- a VI is not foolproof. Shepard's not actually indoctrinated at this point. Just getting a little mental barrage without knowing it. It's at the Crucible where Shepard has to make the choice to become indoctrinated or resist it.

[blooregard]

SomeBug wrote...

I have a question, could someone answer it for me? I haven't kept up with the thread.

On Thessia, Shepard talks with the Prothean VI for a few minutes and it describes to him the purpose of the Crucible and its inception.

Then Kai Leng shows up and it says 'indoctrinated presence detected' and shuts down.

If Shepard was indoctrinated, why didn't it detect that he was, only Kai Leng? It seemingly has a device or function which enables it to detect indoctrinated people, even at range. Yet Shepard doesn't trigger these alarms.

This happens like right before the final mission too, long after the point where he first saw the child.

its hinted at multiple times that protheans weren't able to detect indoctronated individuals until it was painfully obvious they were indoctronated like saren or kai leng. meanwhile its wholly possible harbinger (who's obsessed over shepard since his death) managed to indoctronate shepard to an extent so that when the time came harbinger could sabotage shepard since harby seems to be fully aware that shepard is the biggest threat to the reapers

[AnnaExMachina]

Fledgey wrote...

Fledgey wrote...

JediNg wrote...

AnnaExMachina wrote...

Sorry, I didn't get to read all of the pages yet, but I noticed something when limping in the hallway you first get beamed to on the Citadel. The piles of bodies all have a body wearing Ashley's famous phoenix armor, who I left behind on Virmire. Did that change for those who left Kaidan behind? And every body in the pile has the same face and no hair. That struck me as really odd. Maybe just lazy background stuff?

Can anybody check this?

I just did. I see Ashley's armor and then there are two other armors that repeat. I took screenshots and I'll up them in a sec.

imgur.com/a/gZrgD#0

Probably chalk it up to lazy background stuff. It's just odd that none of them had hair. They were all bald. Eh.

[SomeBug]

JediNg wrote...

SomeBug wrote...

I have a question, could someone answer it for me? I haven't kept up with the thread.

On Thessia, Shepard talks with the Prothean VI for a few minutes and it describes to him the purpose of the Crucible and its inception.

Then Kai Leng shows up and it says 'indoctrinated presence detected' and shuts down.

If Shepard was indoctrinated, why didn't it detect that he was, only Kai Leng? It seemingly has a device or function which enables it to detect indoctrinated people, even at range. Yet Shepard doesn't trigger these alarms.

This happens like right before the final mission too, long after the point where he first saw the child.

Shepard isn't indoctrinated.  The idea is that shep is being indoctrinated during the dream.

Everything in the fiction contradicts this. The Cerberus scientists in the derelict reaper took weeks to be turned. Turned slowly. The codex says that indoctrination takes months.

The conversation with Vigil in ME1 says that indoctrination is a slow process. Javik concurs and says that the Protheans were slowly turned.

Now Shepard is indoctrinated in five minutes? He wasn't inside a reaper. He wasn't implanted with reaper technology. He's half a mile from the nearest reaper on the ground. And he's being SUPER DUPER indoctrinated in record time?

[Getorex]

acManic wrote...

 Hey guys, new here but I've been following (or trying to follow...) this thread since late Saturday when I beat the game. Like other have said many things just don't make sense to the point where it seems it must have been intentional. And at this point even if it wasn't intentional, it would be stupid of the companies to not realize how they could use all of this to their advantage to make a better ending since a lot of people, including myself probably, would pay for a better ending. 

The only thing that makes me feel like it wasn't intentional is using images meant for other things. I can't remember some right now, but I'm pretty sure someone mentioned how something in the end was originally meant for another scene that was scrapped. And I decided to look through the artbook to see if anything was said about this and I found the concept art for the creepy body filled Citadel hallway, which seems like it was meant to be on the Cerberus base before you fight TIM as a husk (also scrapped) and there is some random looking person there with Shepard. They just reused this area in the ending. And that either means they put everything together for a quick new ending OR the mashing of all these strange things at the end prove even more that it's a dream/hallucination thing going on that isn't supposed to make sense. Andd if someone pointed out the hallway already I apologize 

I too would pay for a better ending (a RATIONAL ending that brings closure, that makes all my choices actually count for ****) but a lot of people wouldn't.  A lot of people would (properly) see this as money-grubbing manipulation, due to poision from EA mainly, to suck money from players for an incomplete game on one hand, and a "fix" that actually brings an ending on the other.  Pay $50 to $70 for a broken game and THEN pay more for a fix?  Really?

[Sl4sh3r]

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

Pyewacket wrote...

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

It wasn't a hallucination. Bioware wouldn't have provided people with one right choice, and two wrong ones.

It may seem like a dream sequence because of how abrupt and completely incoherent it was, but it wasn't.

Uh, do you have any evidence that supports that theory other than, "Bioware wouldn't do that."?

Haha. The ending is not a hallucination. Why? Because Bioware said from the beginning that no matter what, the Reaper threat would be over. Two of three endings make you fail.

This theory is actually WORSE than what we got. Not because it doesn't make sense, because in-game it sure as hell does, but because there is only one right answer. There should not be one right answer, there should be multiple answers that you can justify as being right in your opinion. This theory just makes the game more linear.

The ending was not indoctrination. Wishful thinking is just going to disappoint you.

Destroying the Reapers is what you set out to do from the moment you started ME1.

Why shouldn't the ultimate goal be, Destroy the Reapers? It would mean you stayed true to your word.

The entire point of the game for both Paragon and Renegade is Destroy the Reapers.

This is a test of Willpower, and you failed.

Modifié par Sl4sh3r, 13 mars 2012 - 02:45 .

[ReclaimedHavoc]

Excuse the crappiness of this photo, but in case anyone wanted to know what I was talking about...
http://s1043.photobu...nt=39c34832.jpg

I just thought it was weird seeing a red biotic blast. I have no idea if this matter, but, meh. Just figured I'd post it anyway.

[thePredator50]

thePredator50 wrote...

@JessicaMerizan I just finished the game today, and just... Have way more questions than answers. Not what I was expecting at all.

@Xarathos if you just finished today then I would advise that you sit down (AFK) with a warm beverage & think about it a bit Seriously.



This is getting very obvious at this point.

Also, link: 
https://twitter.com/...391140976525312 

EDIT: Wrong link

Modifié par thePredator50, 13 mars 2012 - 02:45 .

[FLYING GRENADE11]

LolaLei wrote...

Something else I noticed:

The God Child tells you that if you choose to destroy the Reapers then all synthetic life will die, BUT he also reminds you that Shepard is also part synthetic, however Shep can survive the blast if your score is high enough. This to me suggests that the little **** was lying in order to get you to join the Reapers. Perhaps destroying the reapers doesn't kill EDI or the Geth after all.

They don't its simply a test to see if you would give it all up to just end the reapers.

[Ainyan42]

Hrm.

@masseffect @gchris6784 some people like the endings, and thats fine. But it looks like they are a minority

@happyplace5834 The Shay's Rebellion was a minority during the revolutionary war. Look what happened to them.

Not looking good - Shay's Rebellion is how we got the Constitution. >.>;

[ReclaimedHavoc]

SomeBug wrote...

JediNg wrote...

SomeBug wrote...

I have a question, could someone answer it for me? I haven't kept up with the thread.

On Thessia, Shepard talks with the Prothean VI for a few minutes and it describes to him the purpose of the Crucible and its inception.

Then Kai Leng shows up and it says 'indoctrinated presence detected' and shuts down.

If Shepard was indoctrinated, why didn't it detect that he was, only Kai Leng? It seemingly has a device or function which enables it to detect indoctrinated people, even at range. Yet Shepard doesn't trigger these alarms.

This happens like right before the final mission too, long after the point where he first saw the child.

Shepard isn't indoctrinated.  The idea is that shep is being indoctrinated during the dream.

Everything in the fiction contradicts this. The Cerberus scientists in the derelict reaper took weeks to be turned. Turned slowly. The codex says that indoctrination takes months.

The conversation with Vigil in ME1 says that indoctrination is a slow process. Javik concurs and says that the Protheans were slowly turned.

Now Shepard is indoctrinated in five minutes? He wasn't inside a reaper. He wasn't implanted with reaper technology. He's half a mile from the nearest reaper on the ground. And he's being SUPER DUPER indoctrinated in record time?

I always thought it had a slight presence, but it wasn't big enough to actually trip the Prothean VI. I

[BeardedPuma]

I've been following this thread a while.

And I think it's safe to say there's really only 2 things that can happen now.

1. Indoctrination Theory is correct and we win!

or

2. Bioware/EA SUCKS!!!!! and we all die.

Here's to hoping Bioware doesn't suck. ::raises a glass::

[Debi-Tage]

lookingglassmind wrote...

Guys, another thing in favour of a possible indoctrination device on the Normandy:

I just started a new game. You have one cutscene where you're on the Normandy in the beginning, with Kaidan and James before going to Mars. The next time you're aboard the Normandy is after the stuff at the Citadel with trying to convince the Council to help you, and they send you to Palaven. But before you can interact with the Normandy environment as the player, you have to return to the ship from the docking bay. This triggers a cutscene -- your first dream with the Catalyst. Then you wake up, and begin your tour with Traynor.

It's a small thing, and probably kind of reaching for things that aren't there, but still.

I like it.

That's funny - I just finished that scene as well and the way Liara was acting when the new Yeoman came up struck me as weird. Then Traynor starts talking about how she was part of the team that retrofitted the new Normandy...

If you notice later on she always has all this intel on Cerberus stuff too. Maybe she was working for Udina and is responsible for installing any kind of indoc devices on the Normandy? If that theory is the one you go for, that is.

Modifié par Debi-Tage, 13 mars 2012 - 02:49 .