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[Pyewacket]

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

Pyewacket wrote...

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

It wasn't a hallucination. Bioware wouldn't have provided people with one right choice, and two wrong ones.

It may seem like a dream sequence because of how abrupt and completely incoherent it was, but it wasn't.

Uh, do you have any evidence that supports that theory other than, "Bioware wouldn't do that."?

Haha. The ending is not a hallucination. Why? Because Bioware said from the beginning that no matter what, the Reaper threat would be over. Two of three endings make you fail.

This theory is actually WORSE than what we got. Not because it doesn't make sense, because in-game it sure as hell does, but because there is only one right answer. There should not be one right answer, there should be multiple answers that you can justify as being right in your opinion. This theory just makes the game more linear.

The ending was not indoctrination. Wishful thinking is just going to disappoint you.

I'm going to have to disagree there.  What your saying is that the indoctrination theory actually narrows down your choices in the end, but that's only if that's actually the end of the game.  If the theory does pan out than that means there's more to come, and who's to say what happens then?  I suppose debating it is pointless.  Bioware will let us know one way or the other soon enough.

[MissMaster_2]

VironZ wrote...

Yeah and your LI kinda hints of being pregnant

There is no way to happen because Garrus is a man. lol.

[ArcticNova]

What if there is no god-like child? What if it's actually the harbinger trying to convince you that it's a good idea to synthesize organics and synthetics or to control the reapers KNOWING that would make the reapers win.

THINK ABOUT THIS:

All the time Shepard spent around reapers made him/her a little bit more indoctrinated each time... As shepard dreams, he/she sees the boy and the boy could very well be harbinger appearing innocent as a young boy and trying to control the mind of Shepard when it's resting and at it's weakest... In the final battle, after Shepard is hit with Harbinger's beam he/she is no longer wearing armor... and walks to the citadel and talks to the boy from your dreams and the boy gives you three options while trying to convince Shepard that keeping the reapers around was the best solution and if you didn't keep them around it would only create chaos. So... if you choose to DESTROY the reapers it shows the reapers being destroyed and then your team lands on a random planet after it shows the mass relays being destroyed. Then if your galactic army was good enough, it showed a cut scene of Shepard and he/she takes in a single breath... but notice... Shepard was still in his/her armor. Meaning that talking with the Illusive man, the boy, and choosing one of three options could have all been a hallucination and just harbinger trying to mess with Shepard trying to get him/her completely indoctrined so that he could convince Shepard that keeping the reapers around was a good idea... If you chose to destroy the reapers, then Shepard proves that his/her mind is too strong to be indoctrinated completely. Then you could wake up to right after the beam hit you, and you could end up fighting harbinger in a final battle and then finally destroying the reapers for good.

Again this is just one possibility but it confused me as to why Shepard wasn't wearing armor after being hit by the beam and was after talking to the boy and destroying the reapers in the short cut scene of him/her breathing... Something just isn't addding up in my head and perhaps Bioware did it on purpose...

[Lugaidster]

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

It wasn't a hallucination. Bioware wouldn't have provided people with one right choice, and two wrong ones.

It may seem like a dream sequence because of how abrupt and completely incoherent it was, but it wasn't.

OMG  that makes so much sense! Guys, calm down, please read this. You'll clearly realize we were all wrong... Time to pack up and go home... <_<

Seriously, what's with all this people coming here to say "ur wrooooong!" and backing it up with nothing ... I'm I the only one annoyed?

[JediNg]

SomeBug wrote...

JediNg wrote...

SomeBug wrote...

I have a question, could someone answer it for me? I haven't kept up with the thread.

On Thessia, Shepard talks with the Prothean VI for a few minutes and it describes to him the purpose of the Crucible and its inception.

Then Kai Leng shows up and it says 'indoctrinated presence detected' and shuts down.

If Shepard was indoctrinated, why didn't it detect that he was, only Kai Leng? It seemingly has a device or function which enables it to detect indoctrinated people, even at range. Yet Shepard doesn't trigger these alarms.

This happens like right before the final mission too, long after the point where he first saw the child.

Shepard isn't indoctrinated.  The idea is that shep is being indoctrinated during the dream.

Everything in the fiction contradicts this. The Cerberus scientists in the derelict reaper took weeks to be turned. Turned slowly. The codex says that indoctrination takes months.

The conversation with Vigil in ME1 says that indoctrination is a slow process. Javik concurs and says that the Protheans were slowly turned.

Now Shepard is indoctrinated in five minutes? He wasn't inside a reaper. He wasn't implanted with reaper technology. He's half a mile from the nearest reaper on the ground. And he's being SUPER DUPER indoctrinated in record time?

No.  You're leaving out parts where it mentions rapid indoctrination leaves the subject a helpless servant or some such.  I believe this is what people are saying is happening within the dream.  That or i'm taking away the wrong message - because all this talk of 'losing yourself' with synthesis or control suggests that Shepard would lose his personality in those cases, consistent with rapid indoctrination.  Slow indoctrination is when you want a servant like Saren.  Or Amanda Kenson.

[Neuthung]

From Twitter, @HollyConrad, to whom @JessicaMerizan has been pointing for those that have ending quetions.

‏ @HollyConrad Alright, I'll hopefully have my video regarding the revelation I had tonight about ME3, first emails, then fun video making...
@outlawman76 i sent you a link 2 a page that actually if theory correct makes bioware geniuses (?) and if wrong still interesting
@HollyConrad oh no, they're correct. haha
‏@outlawman76 i am REALLY hoping so, and it's pretty much what i'm going with, and the peices REALLY fit the puzzle in this case

Extremely fascinating, especially since a BW employee is pointing people in search of answers in this direction.

Modifié par Neuthung, 13 mars 2012 - 02:50 .

[lavosslayer]

SomeBug wrote...

BlackDragonBane wrote...

SomeBug wrote...

I have a question, could someone answer it for me? I haven't kept up with the thread.

On Thessia, Shepard talks with the Prothean VI for a few minutes and it describes to him the purpose of the Crucible and its inception.

Then Kai Leng shows up and it says 'indoctrinated presence detected' and shuts down.

If Shepard was indoctrinated, why didn't it detect that he was, only Kai Leng? It seemingly has a device or function which enables it to detect indoctrinated people, even at range. Yet Shepard doesn't trigger these alarms.

This happens like right before the final mission too, long after the point where he first saw the child.

It's been explained several pages back but the reason the VI didn't detect indoctrination in Shepard because it can't detect the indoctrination unless it is at critical levels. Kai Leng was fulling indoctrinated and like has Reaper-based implants and prosthetics.

Are you seriously suggesting this is the case? It's a hell of a reach.

Personally I think it has more to do with the way indoctrination is preformed...remember the guy on eden prime when sovreign landed and emitted the sound ? He said it sounded like the shriek of the damned and bored into is skull and his buddies agreed...

Being on Thessia the planet is being ravaged by the Reapers who are constantly emitting the indoctrination infrasonic sounds. I think the VI  detected the emissions coming from the Reapers themselves...I don't think it detected it from any single person there since it was coming from all around them.

[MissMaster_2]

ceruleancrescent wrote...

ReclaimedHavoc wrote...

ceruleancrescent wrote...

ReclaimedHavoc wrote...

FLYING GRENADE11 wrote...

ReclaimedHavoc wrote...

Anyone else find it disturbing the secrets are...tending...to the bodies?

You mean the keepers?

Keepers, damn.
I'm so out of it, multi tasking the hell out of everything.

The keepers have always been somewhat myserious and suspicious to me, especially after LotSB when you see the videos of the keepers doing odd things. I know they are agents of the reapers, but still...creepy keepers

Wasn't one of those vids a keeper walking past a dead body?

Yes

Where is this?? ME1 or ME2 I can't tell

[Tallis Lucienis]

 Another thing to add is that this:

The materials placed into Shepards body, the synthetic and artificial technology cultivated from Reaper tech, could have slowly begun to indoctrinate him. It is stated in the game on the Cerberus base that only when Grayson was weakened by Red Sand was he able to fully submit to the indoctrination, those others who are strong and loyal to a cause would not easily secumb to the indoctrination: This could also explain glowing scars?

Getting to the point, only when Shepard was hit by Harbinger's attack during the rush to the beam that he was placed into a weakened state, a state where the Indoctrination could have finally taken hold and the Reapers given him the dream sequence that we see at the end of the game. Up to this point, Shepard has been loyal and strong, as Dr. Chakwas puts it "The poster of health", he could not have secumbed so easily until finally he was put into a very weakened state during the Battle for London. 

[Lurchibald]

thePredator50 wrote...

@JessicaMerizan I just finished the game today, and just... Have way more questions than answers. Not what I was expecting at all.

@Xarathos if you just finished today then I would advise that you sit down (AFK) with a warm beverage & think about it a bit Seriously.



This is getting very obvious at this point.

Well, @Holly Conrad (who is Jessica Merizan's friend) seems to very strongly believe that this theory is correct... but that could mean anything..

[ReclaimedHavoc]

Lugaidster wrote...

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

It wasn't a hallucination. Bioware wouldn't have provided people with one right choice, and two wrong ones.

It may seem like a dream sequence because of how abrupt and completely incoherent it was, but it wasn't.

OMG  that makes so much sense! Guys, calm down, please read this. You'll clearly realize we were all wrong... Time to pack up and go home... <_<

Seriously, what's with all this people coming here to say "ur wrooooong!" and backing it up with nothing ... I'm I the only one annoyed?

You're not the only one.

[Sl4sh3r]

SomeBug wrote...

JediNg wrote...

SomeBug wrote...

I have a question, could someone answer it for me? I haven't kept up with the thread.

On Thessia, Shepard talks with the Prothean VI for a few minutes and it describes to him the purpose of the Crucible and its inception.

Then Kai Leng shows up and it says 'indoctrinated presence detected' and shuts down.

If Shepard was indoctrinated, why didn't it detect that he was, only Kai Leng? It seemingly has a device or function which enables it to detect indoctrinated people, even at range. Yet Shepard doesn't trigger these alarms.

This happens like right before the final mission too, long after the point where he first saw the child.

Shepard isn't indoctrinated.  The idea is that shep is being indoctrinated during the dream.

Everything in the fiction contradicts this. The Cerberus scientists in the derelict reaper took weeks to be turned. Turned slowly. The codex says that indoctrination takes months.

The conversation with Vigil in ME1 says that indoctrination is a slow process. Javik concurs and says that the Protheans were slowly turned.

Now Shepard is indoctrinated in five minutes? He wasn't inside a reaper. He wasn't implanted with reaper technology. He's half a mile from the nearest reaper on the ground. And he's being SUPER DUPER indoctrinated in record time?

It's taking place throughout the entire game.

If you're not going to keep up with the thread, don't comment.

You're contributing nothing. Everything you're trying to disprove has a stronger argument behind it to prove it.

[camcon2100]

SomeBug wrote...

JediNg wrote...

SomeBug wrote...

I have a question, could someone answer it for me? I haven't kept up with the thread.

On Thessia, Shepard talks with the Prothean VI for a few minutes and it describes to him the purpose of the Crucible and its inception.

Then Kai Leng shows up and it says 'indoctrinated presence detected' and shuts down.

If Shepard was indoctrinated, why didn't it detect that he was, only Kai Leng? It seemingly has a device or function which enables it to detect indoctrinated people, even at range. Yet Shepard doesn't trigger these alarms.

This happens like right before the final mission too, long after the point where he first saw the child.

Shepard isn't indoctrinated.  The idea is that shep is being indoctrinated during the dream.

Everything in the fiction contradicts this. The Cerberus scientists in the derelict reaper took weeks to be turned. Turned slowly. The codex says that indoctrination takes months.

The conversation with Vigil in ME1 says that indoctrination is a slow process. Javik concurs and says that the Protheans were slowly turned.

Now Shepard is indoctrinated in five minutes? He wasn't inside a reaper. He wasn't implanted with reaper technology. He's half a mile from the nearest reaper on the ground. And he's being SUPER DUPER indoctrinated in record time?

Think of it like this. Harbinger was literally targeting us to be indoctrinated. He is only focused on Shepard and no body else..

[Pyewacket]

Lugaidster wrote...

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

It wasn't a hallucination. Bioware wouldn't have provided people with one right choice, and two wrong ones.

It may seem like a dream sequence because of how abrupt and completely incoherent it was, but it wasn't.

OMG  that makes so much sense! Guys, calm down, please read this. You'll clearly realize we were all wrong... Time to pack up and go home... <_<

Seriously, what's with all this people coming here to say "ur wrooooong!" and backing it up with nothing ... I'm I the only one annoyed?

Nope.  Seriously, not one of these guys gives us an actual reason with the theory is wrong.  It's all just, "Bwahaha, you all so crazy.  Bioware would never do that.".   Well, I think they totally would do that, and I think it would be GENIUS.

[Lurchibald]

Neuthung wrote...

‏ @HollyConrad Alright, I'll hopefully have my video regarding the revelation I had tonight about ME3, first emails, then fun video making...
@outlawman76 i sent you a link 2 a page that actually if theory correct makes bioware geniuses (?) and if wrong still interesting
@HollyConrad oh no, they're correct. haha
‏@outlawman76 i am REALLY hoping so, and it's pretty much what i'm going with, and the peices REALLY fit the puzzle in this case

Extremely fascinating, especially since a BW employee is pointing people in search of answers in this direction.

Holly Conrad is not a bioware employee, you are thinking of Jessica Merizan 

[G0thicRhino]

So after taking a quick leave of the thread to make dinner, it occurred to me that the two most glaring indications that destroy is the right choice.. are the last two games.

As many others have said, Saren represents Synthesize, whereas TIM represents Control.
Both tried what they thought was the right choice, but ultimately they both failed. Destroy is 100% the right choice.

And I'm still a firm believer that Shep is fighting indoctrination.

[Mini Jo]

Neuthung wrote...

‏ @HollyConrad Alright, I'll hopefully have my video regarding the revelation I had tonight about ME3, first emails, then fun video making...
@outlawman76 i sent you a link 2 a page that actually if theory correct makes bioware geniuses (?) and if wrong still interesting
@HollyConrad oh no, they're correct. haha
‏@outlawman76 i am REALLY hoping so, and it's pretty much what i'm going with, and the peices REALLY fit the puzzle in this case

Extremely fascinating, especially since a BW employee is pointing people in search of answers in this direction.

I really don't think she's a Bioware employee..

[Lugaidster]

SomeBug wrote...

BlackDragonBane wrote...

SomeBug wrote...

I have a question, could someone answer it for me? I haven't kept up with the thread.

On Thessia, Shepard talks with the Prothean VI for a few minutes and it describes to him the purpose of the Crucible and its inception.

Then Kai Leng shows up and it says 'indoctrinated presence detected' and shuts down.

If Shepard was indoctrinated, why didn't it detect that he was, only Kai Leng? It seemingly has a device or function which enables it to detect indoctrinated people, even at range. Yet Shepard doesn't trigger these alarms.

This happens like right before the final mission too, long after the point where he first saw the child.

It's been explained several pages back but the reason the VI didn't detect indoctrination in Shepard because it can't detect the indoctrination unless it is at critical levels. Kai Leng was fulling indoctrinated and like has Reaper-based implants and prosthetics.

Are you seriously suggesting this is the case? It's a hell of a reach.

I'd say that the best way to phrase it is that the VI can't detect it unless you are indoctrinated. Shepard's not there yet, otherwise our theory wouldn't make sense. Why would we theorize a scene that represents the fulfilment of indoctrination if we are already indoctrinated?

[blooregard]

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

Pyewacket wrote...

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

It wasn't a hallucination. Bioware wouldn't have provided people with one right choice, and two wrong ones.

It may seem like a dream sequence because of how abrupt and completely incoherent it was, but it wasn't.

Uh, do you have any evidence that supports that theory other than, "Bioware wouldn't do that."?

Haha. The ending is not a hallucination. Why? Because Bioware said from the beginning that no matter what, the Reaper threat would be over. Two of three endings make you fail.

This theory is actually WORSE than what we got. Not because it doesn't make sense, because in-game it sure as hell does, but because there is only one right answer. There should not be one right answer, there should be multiple answers that you can justify as being right in your opinion. This theory just makes the game more linear.

The ending was not indoctrination. Wishful thinking is just going to disappoint you.

no you have 3 choices two of which are indoctronation related while the destroy ending is the only way out. in ME2 you could have a total mission failure with 2 survivors (joker and EDI) or you could fly through that mission like a boss suffering zero casulties the existence of mass effect 3 proves that total mission failure in ME2 was the "false" ending so bioware can do what ever they please in a game they said whose story is mainly decided by the player if the ending is indoctronation they give you the option to become indoctronated or resist it and beat the reapers or give into their influence and fail

[VironZ]

I bet $10,000 the next DLC and the one after that one are all related to Multiplayer, firstly its going to be character packs then its going to be maps

If they remake the ending under fan boycott then holy schnaps that will be making history for the first gaming company to ever change the ending of an already released game, plus they said the Prothean DLC was DLC when it wasn't, it was already on the disk, in the PC copy you just have to change a few lines of code (without downloading anything) and you get the character+mission+dialogue, its not DLC

[Aigik]

SomeBug wrote...

JediNg wrote...

SomeBug wrote...

I have a question, could someone answer it for me? I haven't kept up with the thread.

On Thessia, Shepard talks with the Prothean VI for a few minutes and it describes to him the purpose of the Crucible and its inception.

Then Kai Leng shows up and it says 'indoctrinated presence detected' and shuts down.

If Shepard was indoctrinated, why didn't it detect that he was, only Kai Leng? It seemingly has a device or function which enables it to detect indoctrinated people, even at range. Yet Shepard doesn't trigger these alarms.

This happens like right before the final mission too, long after the point where he first saw the child.

Shepard isn't indoctrinated.  The idea is that shep is being indoctrinated during the dream.

Everything in the fiction contradicts this. The Cerberus scientists in the derelict reaper took weeks to be turned. Turned slowly. The codex says that indoctrination takes months.

The conversation with Vigil in ME1 says that indoctrination is a slow process. Javik concurs and says that the Protheans were slowly turned.

Now Shepard is indoctrinated in five minutes? He wasn't inside a reaper. He wasn't implanted with reaper technology. He's half a mile from the nearest reaper on the ground. And he's being SUPER DUPER indoctrinated in record time?

Shepard passed out directly in front of a reaper for god knows how long.

And indoctrination can be fast-tracked, but at the risk of driving the person insane.

[JediNg]

Sl4sh3r wrote...

SomeBug wrote...

JediNg wrote...

SomeBug wrote...

I have a question, could someone answer it for me? I haven't kept up with the thread.

On Thessia, Shepard talks with the Prothean VI for a few minutes and it describes to him the purpose of the Crucible and its inception.

Then Kai Leng shows up and it says 'indoctrinated presence detected' and shuts down.

If Shepard was indoctrinated, why didn't it detect that he was, only Kai Leng? It seemingly has a device or function which enables it to detect indoctrinated people, even at range. Yet Shepard doesn't trigger these alarms.

This happens like right before the final mission too, long after the point where he first saw the child.

Shepard isn't indoctrinated.  The idea is that shep is being indoctrinated during the dream.

Everything in the fiction contradicts this. The Cerberus scientists in the derelict reaper took weeks to be turned. Turned slowly. The codex says that indoctrination takes months.

The conversation with Vigil in ME1 says that indoctrination is a slow process. Javik concurs and says that the Protheans were slowly turned.

Now Shepard is indoctrinated in five minutes? He wasn't inside a reaper. He wasn't implanted with reaper technology. He's half a mile from the nearest reaper on the ground. And he's being SUPER DUPER indoctrinated in record time?

It's taking place throughout the entire game.

If you're not going to keep up with the thread, don't comment.

You're contributing nothing. Everything you're trying to disprove has a stronger argument behind it to prove it.

How would it take place throughout the game?  Not the guy you are responding to by the way.

[Lugaidster]

Double post :S

Modifié par Lugaidster, 13 mars 2012 - 02:51 .

[thePredator50]

Conrad's video will be interesting to watch...

[MatthewGold]

Cody Murray ‏ @Happyplace5834 · Open
@masseffect @gchris6784 some people like the endings, and thats fine. But it looks like they are a minority

Mass Effect ‏ @masseffect Close
@happyplace5834 The Shay's Rebellion was a minority during the revolutionary war. Look what happened to them.
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