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[BlackDragonBane]

SomeBug wrote...

BlackDragonBane wrote...

SomeBug wrote...

I have a question, could someone answer it for me? I haven't kept up with the thread.

On Thessia, Shepard talks with the Prothean VI for a few minutes and it describes to him the purpose of the Crucible and its inception.

Then Kai Leng shows up and it says 'indoctrinated presence detected' and shuts down.

If Shepard was indoctrinated, why didn't it detect that he was, only Kai Leng? It seemingly has a device or function which enables it to detect indoctrinated people, even at range. Yet Shepard doesn't trigger these alarms.

This happens like right before the final mission too, long after the point where he first saw the child.

It's been explained several pages back but the reason the VI didn't detect indoctrination in Shepard because it can't detect the indoctrination unless it is at critical levels. Kai Leng was fulling indoctrinated and like has Reaper-based implants and prosthetics.

Are you seriously suggesting this is the case? It's a hell of a reach.

Wow.  Rationalize like crazy. 

Don't do that cuz it wont fix the
ending.  It is best to play the game up to the goofy part at the end
and then just stop (and wait to see if a rational DLC is soon to be
forthcoming).  They have to do something to stop the bleeding.  Six days
after official release and the price for both the regular and
collector's edition is already down $10. 

Refer to this and tell me that this is 'over rationalizing'



If you watch from this point on, the VI makes no mention of Shepard being indoctrinated, but it can detect both the Reapers outside and the fact that Kai Leng is indoctrinated, leaving the conclusion that either Shepard is not indoctrinated or not enough to where the VI considers Shepard a danger or notices.

The proof for many aspects of this theory, including this one, are in the game. Actually try to come up with a count-argument with proof next time.

[Catreina-JTV]

SomeBug wrote...

BlackDragonBane wrote...

SomeBug wrote...

I have a question, could someone answer it for me? I haven't kept up with the thread.

On Thessia, Shepard talks with the Prothean VI for a few minutes and it describes to him the purpose of the Crucible and its inception.

Then Kai Leng shows up and it says 'indoctrinated presence detected' and shuts down.

If Shepard was indoctrinated, why didn't it detect that he was, only Kai Leng? It seemingly has a device or function which enables it to detect indoctrinated people, even at range. Yet Shepard doesn't trigger these alarms.

This happens like right before the final mission too, long after the point where he first saw the child.

It's been explained several pages back but the reason the VI didn't detect indoctrination in Shepard because it can't detect the indoctrination unless it is at critical levels. Kai Leng was fulling indoctrinated and like has Reaper-based implants and prosthetics.

Are you seriously suggesting this is the case? It's a hell of a reach.

Actually, no it isn't - think about how the Protheans were wiped out.  They had indoctrinated Protheans who gave away locations. If the Protheans were truly able to detect indoctrination fully, how did they get wiped out?  It is not a stretch at all, not even a little bit.

[Fledgey]

@masseffect its not that the ending was taken in the wrong direction its that it makes NO SENSE. Ashley was on the Normandy? she with me

Mass Effect Mass Effect ‏ @masseffect
@kyledarrah Probably a good thing to be cautious of.

[MatthewGold]

kyle darrah ‏ @kyleDarrah · Open
@masseffect its not that the ending was taken in the wrong direction its that it makes NO SENSE. Ashley was on the Normandy? she with me
Mass Effect ‏ @masseffect Close
@kyledarrah Probably a good thing to be cautious of.
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10:50 PM - 12 Mar 12 via HootSuite · Details

[Lugaidster]

VironZ wrote...

I bet $10,000 the next DLC and the one after that one are all related to Multiplayer, firstly its going to be character packs then its going to be maps

If they remake the ending under fan boycott then holy schnaps that will be making history for the first gaming company to ever change the ending of an already released game, plus they said the Prothean DLC was DLC when it wasn't, it was already on the disk, in the PC copy you just have to change a few lines of code (without downloading anything) and you get the character+mission+dialogue, its not DLC

Care to shake hands for that bet?

[Fledgey]

MatthewGold wrote...

kyle darrah ‏ @kyleDarrah · Open
@masseffect its not that the ending was taken in the wrong direction its that it makes NO SENSE. Ashley was on the Normandy? she with me
Mass Effect ‏ @masseffect Close
@kyledarrah Probably a good thing to be cautious of.
Hide conversation
10:50 PM - 12 Mar 12 via HootSuite · Details

Beat you! >

[Catreina-JTV]

JediNg wrote...

SomeBug wrote...

I have a question, could someone answer it for me? I haven't kept up with the thread.

On Thessia, Shepard talks with the Prothean VI for a few minutes and it describes to him the purpose of the Crucible and its inception.

Then Kai Leng shows up and it says 'indoctrinated presence detected' and shuts down.

If Shepard was indoctrinated, why didn't it detect that he was, only Kai Leng? It seemingly has a device or function which enables it to detect indoctrinated people, even at range. Yet Shepard doesn't trigger these alarms.

This happens like right before the final mission too, long after the point where he first saw the child.

Shepard isn't indoctrinated.  The idea is that shep is being indoctrinated during the dream.

Explain the dream sequences with the kid, the black "cloudy jets" and the whispers then, please. It is becoming more and more difficult to say that Shepard is NOT in some stage of indoctrination the more people look at ME3 and the series as a whole.

[Neuthung]

Lurchibald wrote...

Neuthung wrote...

‏ @HollyConrad Alright, I'll hopefully have my video regarding the revelation I had tonight about ME3, first emails, then fun video making...
@outlawman76 i sent you a link 2 a page that actually if theory correct makes bioware geniuses (?) and if wrong still interesting
@HollyConrad oh no, they're correct. haha
‏@outlawman76 i am REALLY hoping so, and it's pretty much what i'm going with, and the peices REALLY fit the puzzle in this case

Extremely fascinating, especially since a BW employee is pointing people in search of answers in this direction.

Holly Conrad is not a bioware employee, you are thinking of Jessica Merizan 

I made an edit, sorry about that. Merizan is pointing people to her in search of answers. 

[ceruleancrescent]

MissMaster_2 wrote...

ceruleancrescent wrote...

ReclaimedHavoc wrote...

ceruleancrescent wrote...

ReclaimedHavoc wrote...

FLYING GRENADE11 wrote...

ReclaimedHavoc wrote...

Anyone else find it disturbing the secrets are...tending...to the bodies?

You mean the keepers?

Keepers, damn.
I'm so out of it, multi tasking the hell out of everything.

The keepers have always been somewhat myserious and suspicious to me, especially after LotSB when you see the videos of the keepers doing odd things. I know they are agents of the reapers, but still...creepy keepers

Wasn't one of those vids a keeper walking past a dead body?

Yes

Where is this?? ME1 or ME2 I can't tell

ME2 from LotSB videos

[GamerrangerX]

I really hope its was a hallucination or indoctrination,comeon Bioware make a better ending patch

[Soja57]

So in the destroy ending where Shepard survives, a high EMS score boosts Shepard's confidence in winning against the Reapers, therefore his/her will to overcome indoctrination is stronger? My hate towards the endings is starting to diminish now...

[Sl4sh3r]

JediNg wrote...

Sl4sh3r wrote...

SomeBug wrote...

JediNg wrote...

SomeBug wrote...

I have a question, could someone answer it for me? I haven't kept up with the thread.

On Thessia, Shepard talks with the Prothean VI for a few minutes and it describes to him the purpose of the Crucible and its inception.

Then Kai Leng shows up and it says 'indoctrinated presence detected' and shuts down.

If Shepard was indoctrinated, why didn't it detect that he was, only Kai Leng? It seemingly has a device or function which enables it to detect indoctrinated people, even at range. Yet Shepard doesn't trigger these alarms.

This happens like right before the final mission too, long after the point where he first saw the child.

Shepard isn't indoctrinated.  The idea is that shep is being indoctrinated during the dream.

Everything in the fiction contradicts this. The Cerberus scientists in the derelict reaper took weeks to be turned. Turned slowly. The codex says that indoctrination takes months.

The conversation with Vigil in ME1 says that indoctrination is a slow process. Javik concurs and says that the Protheans were slowly turned.

Now Shepard is indoctrinated in five minutes? He wasn't inside a reaper. He wasn't implanted with reaper technology. He's half a mile from the nearest reaper on the ground. And he's being SUPER DUPER indoctrinated in record time?

It's taking place throughout the entire game.

If you're not going to keep up with the thread, don't comment.

You're contributing nothing. Everything you're trying to disprove has a stronger argument behind it to prove it.

How would it take place throughout the game?  Not the guy you are responding to by the way.

You guys really are new to this thread aren't you?

It's been stated that the dreams Shepard has been having is actually part of Indoctrination. He is finally pushed in to the final stages when he gets hit by Harbingers lazer beamz. This is supported by Vega claiming he's hearing a humming noise on the ship. Humming is normally found when an indoctrination device is around.

<--- Listen to that entire video explaining Indoctrination and then think about what's going on with Shepard and the dreams throughout the game.

I'm not 100% on the rest of the details. Check the main thread for more.

[VironZ]

Lugaidster wrote...

VironZ wrote...

I bet $10,000 the next DLC and the one after that one are all related to Multiplayer, firstly its going to be character packs then its going to be maps

If they remake the ending under fan boycott then holy schnaps that will be making history for the first gaming company to ever change the ending of an already released game, plus they said the Prothean DLC was DLC when it wasn't, it was already on the disk, in the PC copy you just have to change a few lines of code (without downloading anything) and you get the character+mission+dialogue, its not DLC

Care to shake hands for that bet?

I will gladly shake hands on that bet....

DLC 2: http://i.imgur.com/e3fOL.png' class='bbc_url' title='External link' rel='nofollow external'>http://i.imgur.com/e3fOL.png

(http://www.reddit.co...me3_than_day_1/)

Modifié par VironZ, 13 mars 2012 - 02:58 .

[ceruleancrescent]

ReclaimedHavoc wrote...

Lugaidster wrote...

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

It wasn't a hallucination. Bioware wouldn't have provided people with one right choice, and two wrong ones.

It may seem like a dream sequence because of how abrupt and completely incoherent it was, but it wasn't.

OMG  that makes so much sense! Guys, calm down, please read this. You'll clearly realize we were all wrong... Time to pack up and go home... <_<

Seriously, what's with all this people coming here to say "ur wrooooong!" and backing it up with nothing ... I'm I the only one annoyed?

You're not the only one.

^^

[MissMaster_2]

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

Pyewacket wrote...

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

It wasn't a hallucination. Bioware wouldn't have provided people with one right choice, and two wrong ones.

It may seem like a dream sequence because of how abrupt and completely incoherent it was, but it wasn't.

Uh, do you have any evidence that supports that theory other than, "Bioware wouldn't do that."?

Haha. The ending is not a hallucination. Why? Because Bioware said from the beginning that no matter what, the Reaper threat would be over. Two of three endings make you fail.

This theory is actually WORSE than what we got. Not because it doesn't make sense, because in-game it sure as hell does, but because there is only one right answer. There should not be one right answer, there should be multiple answers that you can justify as being right in your opinion. This theory just makes the game more linear.

The ending was not indoctrination. Wishful thinking is just going to disappoint you.

So Shepard can breath in space now? I think you should go back and read what people were saying about it. Dead squad mates who come out of the Normany unharmed because you know that ish' happens everyday right.

Modifié par MissMaster_2, 13 mars 2012 - 02:58 .

[Shah138]

I was over on another forum and the point was brought up that in one of the endings it is possible to only have the destroy option available. If that's true than doesn't that punch a hole in this theory?

http://www.gamefaqs....fect-3/62225565

[BigBossBoo]

I know some people have trouble accepting this theory because there wasn't enough foreshadowing about indoctrination. I'm playing through my 2nd time now, and I plan to record everything that I notice is foreshadowing the "ending" and indoctrination.

On Mars, Shepard tells Kaiden that "he's still him" with absolutely no doubt yet on the Cerberus base he seriously doubts himself. He's slowly losing sight of who he is, which is evident by GC. Also TIM on Mars says "We can dominate them, use their power, harness their very essence to bring humanity [/i]to the apex of evolution[/i]" which actually is indicative to synthesis.

And it's because you'd have to have low war assets (IE the least time spent getting ready) so Shepard isn't indoctrinated enough to be confused but at the same time, the fleet isn't big enough and the reapers laugh as they blow everyone up.

Modifié par BigBossBoo, 13 mars 2012 - 02:58 .

[blooregard]

VironZ wrote...

I bet $10,000 the next DLC and the one after that one are all related to Multiplayer, firstly its going to be character packs then its going to be maps

If they remake the ending under fan boycott then holy schnaps that will be making history for the first gaming company to ever change the ending of an already released game, plus they said the Prothean DLC was DLC when it wasn't, it was already on the disk, in the PC copy you just have to change a few lines of code (without downloading anything) and you get the character+mission+dialogue, its not DLC

IMO unless they're planning on expanding the multiplayer so there's more gametypes (TDM, ect.) and not just more maps for the same thing I don't think they're going to concentrate on MP much if not for a while

[Aigik]

Another thought crossed my mind. After you passed out from the reaper blast in your face, and wake up, the reaper is gone. Clearly, it was the reapers' goal to defend the beam at all costs. Why would the reapers just pull out suddenly and leave it undefended? It doesn't make sense.

Another oddity. After waking up, we don't see Anderson enter the beam, but he apparently made it through. Considering that the reaper guarding the beam is gone, it must have been a matter of minutes that Shepard was passed out, because it would take longer than a few seconds for a reaper to move out of the way (they are very slow). So, knowing this, unless Anderson got to the beam immediately before Shepard woke back up, then he made it to the beam much earlier than Shepard did. Yet, when Shepard finally wakes up and makes it to the beam, the radio chatter between him and Anderson indicate that Anderson hasn't even started crossing the bridge yet. Why? Wouldn't Anderson assume Shepard died, and because of the urgency of the situation, move forward to the console to open the citadel's arms? Why would he wait for Shepard to make it, whom he is not even sure is alive, when so much is depending on someone to open those arms?

Modifié par Aigik, 13 mars 2012 - 02:58 .

[Icinix]

LoveAsThouWilt wrote...

Icinix wrote...

The waking up scene may only be a bonus for completionists, kind of like the Master Chief and the ending on the highest difficulty.

If there is a DLC or another ending coming - its entirely possible that all Sheps will wake up in London perhaps indoctrination broken through other means, perhaps by TIM himself using the control system developed on Horizon...(WHAT A TWIST!) - OR - that unique save just before the end will allow you to go through and choose a new ending before it.

Edit : The TIM being doubtful at the end through most of the conversation never sat well with me - as TIM always came across who had total resolve in whatever he believed in - but from the total outset it was almost like he was looking for approval, or had doubts.

I always thought of TIM as very set in his ways. Being able to talk him down, just like I did Saren, harkens back to the dreaming-indoctrination hypothesis.  Also I assume the same that if we are to get "end game content" that it will include any and all Shepards waking up, to finish the fight. Should have just done that from the get go because seriously... "The events after the Reaper-beam make no god damn sense!"

It really does. Also - TIM had got enough control over the Reapers for the Reapers to be concerned and try to take out the base.

ALSO - and this is a slightly lateral movement.

They have claimed all through development - that you CAN get the best ending with war assets from the game - BUT - you can only get the Shep lives if you play MP.

This seems to infer that what we get is not the actual ending - but a red herring.
Even now they haven't commented on the shep lives scene but have posted that you can still get the best ending from SP alone.....but they still can't reveal specifics.

It all started with the mirrored 1M1 textures...but the more this gets looked at - the more it looks like something big is yet to be revealed.

[VironZ]

blooregard wrote...

VironZ wrote...

I bet $10,000 the next DLC and the one after that one are all related to Multiplayer, firstly its going to be character packs then its going to be maps

If they remake the ending under fan boycott then holy schnaps that will be making history for the first gaming company to ever change the ending of an already released game, plus they said the Prothean DLC was DLC when it wasn't, it was already on the disk, in the PC copy you just have to change a few lines of code (without downloading anything) and you get the character+mission+dialogue, its not DLC

IMO unless they're planning on expanding the multiplayer so there's more gametypes (TDM, ect.) and not just more maps for the same thing I don't think they're going to concentrate on MP much if not for a while

o'rly?

http://i.imgur.com/e3fOL.png' class='bbc_url' title='External link' rel='nofollow external'> http://i.imgur.com/e3fOL.png

Modifié par VironZ, 13 mars 2012 - 02:57 .

[Sl4sh3r]

Shah138 wrote...

I was over on another forum and the point was brought up that in one of the endings it is possible to only have the destroy option available. If that's true than doesn't that punch a hole in this theory?

http://www.gamefaqs....fect-3/62225565

Don't think so...

http://www.ign.com/w...ffect-3/Endings

[Fledgey]

Shah138 wrote...

I was over on another forum and the point was brought up that in one of the endings it is possible to only have the destroy option available. If that's true than doesn't that punch a hole in this theory?

http://www.gamefaqs....fect-3/62225565

It's the first ending that becomes available. If the theory is to be believed shepard has been slowly indoctrinated since possibly before he even saw the kid on Earth. If you rush the game the reapers don't have enough time to break down your walls so your will is too strong to get you to give in to their way of thinking.

[ceruleancrescent]

Sl4sh3r wrote...

JediNg wrote...

Sl4sh3r wrote...

SomeBug wrote...

JediNg wrote...

SomeBug wrote...

I have a question, could someone answer it for me? I haven't kept up with the thread.

On Thessia, Shepard talks with the Prothean VI for a few minutes and it describes to him the purpose of the Crucible and its inception.

Then Kai Leng shows up and it says 'indoctrinated presence detected' and shuts down.

If Shepard was indoctrinated, why didn't it detect that he was, only Kai Leng? It seemingly has a device or function which enables it to detect indoctrinated people, even at range. Yet Shepard doesn't trigger these alarms.

This happens like right before the final mission too, long after the point where he first saw the child.

Shepard isn't indoctrinated.  The idea is that shep is being indoctrinated during the dream.

Everything in the fiction contradicts this. The Cerberus scientists in the derelict reaper took weeks to be turned. Turned slowly. The codex says that indoctrination takes months.

The conversation with Vigil in ME1 says that indoctrination is a slow process. Javik concurs and says that the Protheans were slowly turned.

Now Shepard is indoctrinated in five minutes? He wasn't inside a reaper. He wasn't implanted with reaper technology. He's half a mile from the nearest reaper on the ground. And he's being SUPER DUPER indoctrinated in record time?

It's taking place throughout the entire game.

If you're not going to keep up with the thread, don't comment.

You're contributing nothing. Everything you're trying to disprove has a stronger argument behind it to prove it.

How would it take place throughout the game?  Not the guy you are responding to by the way.

You guys really are new to this thread aren't you?

It's been stated that the dreams Shepard has been having is actually part of Indoctrination. He is finally pushed in to the final stages when he gets hit by Harbingers lazer beamz. This is supported by Vega claiming he's hearing a humming noise on the ship. Humming is normally found when an indoctrination device is around.

<--- Listen to that entire video explaining Indoctrination and then think about what's going on with Shepard and the dreams throughout the game.

I'm not 100% on the rest of the details. Check the main thread for more.

No, this guy was around earlier in the thread and did the same thing, saying we're wrong, stating some things and then not backing it up with any solid counter arguement all awhile stating our arguement is wrong. Honestly, when I saw this post I though "oh Geez, here we go again".

[VironZ]

Didn't Shepard come into a Prothean orb in the final ME:2 DLC, which indoctrinated the people making the astroid impact plan.