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[Modernpreacher]

When I first finished the game it felt really odd. I replayed the final assault on the beam and the ending scenario again last night, and that feeling didn't go away.

The dialogue. The actions. It's all so wonky.

I agree that from the point that you wake up after having been blasted by the beam is all a dream.

I don't believe that the boy has been a hallucination the entire time, and the reason I think that has to do with Shepard's state of mind.

He's helpless when the child is killed at the start. And throughout ME1 and 2, Shepard is almost never helpless. He may be beaten down, but he's never helpless. Suddenly he's helpless, unable to save an innocent.

That was the door in for Indoctrination.

He chooses to destroy a planet of Batarians, the loss of Mordin, Legion, Thane, countless other deaths he can't stop...

The guy is borderline PTSD. We see it in the nightmares, the problems sleeping, and it only gets worse and worse as the game progresses and more death surrounds him.

I think it's all finally getting to him. But through it all, he's unshaking. Unrelenting. Because that's Shepard. He just keeps moving forward, unstoppable. Until he dies he'll fight. He doesn't have any give in him afterall. We know that. His friends know that. The alliance knows that.

Harbinger know that. They've experienced it first hand after all in ME1 and ME2. A normal person would have stopped, been defeated, been killed. Not Shepard.

So Shepard is lying there badly wounded after the blast from on the way to the beam, what is his dream? What scenario would his doctrination, if real, take?

Winning of course. But not just winning, his sacrifice to let everyone else live. It's genius really. The very thing that has kept Shepard moving forward coming after the Reapers, turned against him. It's brutally simple and utterly brilliant.

You can win Shepard. All you have to do is choose to do so. Accept it. Give in to surrender. Sacrifice yourself and everything will be ok. Your friends will live happily ever after on another planet. You can finally rest.

The blue (control) and the Synthesis scenes, you lay down your weapon and accept your death.

Only with red, the destroy, do you fight. You pull your gun and you fight. And when you do that, you wake up in rubble back on Earth.

How can there be any question that it's all a dream? If you choose to fight, you WAKE UP.

[BigBossBoo]

o'rly?

 http://i.imgur.com/e3fOL.png

Just noticed, if that image is legit, why is there a "battlemaster" and "justicar" class?  I know they exist in game as lore, but they aren't one of the classes as you see in the current unlocked race items and the other race items in that pic.  Just seems odd.

[sfam]

OK, just got done with Mass Effect 3. Was great...until the last 10-15 minutes (and I include the ridiculous sequence trying to get into the damn beam as the beginning of serious crappiness).

Personally, I think Bioware ran out of time and half-assed the ending. They broke faith with the gamers in that the ending doesn't seem to take in account much of any of the three games worth of content, and worse, there is no possible happy ending. Most gamers really aren't going for some obscure, unexplained philosophy point, especially if the entire three games is filled with pretty awesome story elements.

So to me, nothing else makes sense - they flat out punted on the ending. Seems pretty indefensible, and will be remembered through time as such. But I still feel like I got my money's worth, as the game up until that point was awesome. I may play through again, but will probably stop right where the ridiculous "you must shoot these monsters while wobbling only to get to a truly nonsensical, sucky end" scene comes.

[balance5050]

I like how this thread is all about evidence and people who try disproving this thread have none.

[JediNg]

Sl4sh3r wrote...

You guys really are new to this thread aren't you?

That's right.

[XGCFriedchicken]

 Not sure if this has been posted yet but 
 .

Im starting to believe the endings are not legit too. Waaaaay to many holes in it. And one thing he didn't mention in the video is that the intentions of the reapers seemed a bit too noble. It's like they wanted to make Shepard think they were necessary.  Their real intentions, I'm guessing, have to do with the dark energy sub plot that was introduced in mass effect 2.

Obviously the intentions we were presented with were flawed. Sythetics don't necessarily destroy organics. Look at the quarians and the geth. You can get them to work together.

But all I kept thinking is, why the heck was my Garrus on the normandy when he charged Harbinger beside me? None of the ending made sense. Im guessing it was all a dream.... DLC inc.

Modifié par XGCFriedchicken, 13 mars 2012 - 03:07 .

[MissMaster_2]

Fledgey wrote...

Shah138 wrote...

I was over on another forum and the point was brought up that in one of the endings it is possible to only have the destroy option available. If that's true than doesn't that punch a hole in this theory?

http://www.gamefaqs....fect-3/62225565

It's the first ending that becomes available. If the theory is to be believed shepard has been slowly indoctrinated since possibly before he even saw the kid on Earth. If you rush the game the reapers don't have enough time to break down your walls so your will is too strong to get you to give in to their way of thinking.

This.

[Sl4sh3r]

ceruleancrescent wrote...

Sl4sh3r wrote...

JediNg wrote...

Sl4sh3r wrote...

It's taking place throughout the entire game.

If you're not going to keep up with the thread, don't comment.

You're contributing nothing. Everything you're trying to disprove has a stronger argument behind it to prove it.

How would it take place throughout the game?  Not the guy you are responding to by the way.

You guys really are new to this thread aren't you?

It's been stated that the dreams Shepard has been having is actually part of Indoctrination. He is finally pushed in to the final stages when he gets hit by Harbingers lazer beamz. This is supported by Vega claiming he's hearing a humming noise on the ship. Humming is normally found when an indoctrination device is around.

<--- Listen to that entire video explaining Indoctrination and then think about what's going on with Shepard and the dreams throughout the game.

I'm not 100% on the rest of the details. Check the main thread for more.

No, this guy was around earlier in the thread and did the same thing, saying we're wrong, stating some things and then not backing it up with any solid counter arguement all awhile stating our arguement is wrong. Honestly, when I saw this post I though "oh Geez, here we go again".

Good to know. Thank you.

[JediNg]

ceruleancrescent wrote...

No, this guy was around earlier in the thread and did the same thing, saying we're wrong, stating some things and then not backing it up with any solid counter arguement all awhile stating our arguement is wrong. Honestly, when I saw this post I though "oh Geez, here we go again".

You don't mean me, right? I hope? :/

[ceruleancrescent]

Sl4sh3r wrote...

Shah138 wrote...

I was over on another forum and the point was brought up that in one of the endings it is possible to only have the destroy option available. If that's true than doesn't that punch a hole in this theory?

http://www.gamefaqs....fect-3/62225565

Don't think so...

http://www.ign.com/w...ffect-3/Endings

When destroy is the only option available, every synthetic and organic being gets wiped out. In the scene, the repears are destroyed, but the human soldiers are also incinerated. It was also discussed that you get this option when you have really low EMS.

[blooregard]

VironZ wrote...

blooregard wrote...

VironZ wrote...

I bet $10,000 the next DLC and the one after that one are all related to Multiplayer, firstly its going to be character packs then its going to be maps

If they remake the ending under fan boycott then holy schnaps that will be making history for the first gaming company to ever change the ending of an already released game, plus they said the Prothean DLC was DLC when it wasn't, it was already on the disk, in the PC copy you just have to change a few lines of code (without downloading anything) and you get the character+mission+dialogue, its not DLC

IMO unless they're planning on expanding the multiplayer so there's more gametypes (TDM, ect.) and not just more maps for the same thing I don't think they're going to concentrate on MP much if not for a while

o'rly?

 http://i.imgur.com/e3fOL.png

bethesda's game jam showed us a bunch of cool stuff that could be in skyrim doesn't mean any of it will. My point is while there may be a picture of it we don't know when its planned on getting released or what will be released with it. The multiplayer isn't even close to half the games worth compared to the singleplayer so my money is still on them focusing on SP more then MP

[Fledgey]

balance5050 wrote...

I like how this thread is all about evidence and people who try disproving this thread have none.

Bingo. People come in here to gripe about their ending and say "and nothing else makes sense". Try reading the thread first and really thinking about it and then reevaulate.

[BlackDragonBane]

balance5050 wrote...

I like how this thread is all about evidence and people who try disproving this thread have none.

*High five

Thank you. That's exactly what this is. Not pure, raving speculations but actually analyzing the game for clues.

[Fat Headed Wolf]

MatthewGold wrote...

kyle darrah ‏ @kyleDarrah · Open
@masseffect its not that the ending was taken in the wrong direction its that it makes NO SENSE. Ashley was on the Normandy? she with me
Mass Effect ‏ @masseffect Close
@kyledarrah Probably a good thing to be cautious of.
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10:50 PM - 12 Mar 12 via HootSuite · Details

Alright, I can't be the only one so I'm gonna say it. I think we need to release these tweets as is and then "translate" them for people like me who think they're looking at an ancient, lost language. Seriously, I have no idea what this says. I swore it wouldn't happen, but I am becoming my father. 

[ceruleancrescent]

JediNg wrote...

ceruleancrescent wrote...

No, this guy was around earlier in the thread and did the same thing, saying we're wrong, stating some things and then not backing it up with any solid counter arguement all awhile stating our arguement is wrong. Honestly, when I saw this post I though "oh Geez, here we go again".

You don't mean me, right? I hope? :/

oh no no! the somebug person, Sorry, his quote was the first one in that series when I clicked to post it.

[Dice2624]

I'm really loving this thread.

[LenabotSE]

I had always thought that the Reapers had fired a dark energy cannon at Haestrom's sun to make it prematurely go supernova and turn it into a new mass relay. Though, if the "original" ending is anything to consider, that's not really a possibility.

[AnnaExMachina]

So what would happen to Shepard if she defeats the Reapers with slight indoctrination? I'd hope that without the Reaper influence that she'd be fine, or would she hear the whispers for the rest of her life?

[ReclaimedHavoc]

Just wondering, did anybody here suspect hallucination on there first go around?

[Prince Keldar]

Tallis Lucienis wrote...

 Another thing to add is that this:

The materials placed into Shepards body, the synthetic and artificial technology cultivated from Reaper tech, could have slowly begun to indoctrinate him. It is stated in the game on the Cerberus base that only when Grayson was weakened by Red Sand was he able to fully submit to the indoctrination, those others who are strong and loyal to a cause would not easily secumb to the indoctrination: This could also explain glowing scars?

Getting to the point, only when Shepard was hit by Harbinger's attack during the rush to the beam that he was placed into a weakened state, a state where the Indoctrination could have finally taken hold and the Reapers given him the dream sequence that we see at the end of the game. Up to this point, Shepard has been loyal and strong, as Dr. Chakwas puts it "The poster of health", he could not have secumbed so easily until finally he was put into a very weakened state during the Battle for London. 

One more thing, every time he sees the kid he is sleeping right.  He is in a relaxed state allowing the indoctrination to work.  However, when he wakes, his mind is active and he is centered on one particular goal of destroying the Reapers preventing the indocrination from working.

[krystalevenstar]

Just so some people are aware, I don't think Holly Conrad works for Bioware in any capacity, but they have talked about her on their twitter multiple times before for her amazing ME cosplay work: http://www.hollyconrad.com/#d89/flickr

So she might be closer with some of the team that just Jessica Merizan

Modifié par krystalevenstar, 13 mars 2012 - 03:07 .

[Fledgey]

Fat Headed Wolf wrote...

MatthewGold wrote...

kyle darrah ‏ @kyleDarrah · Open
@masseffect its not that the ending was taken in the wrong direction its that it makes NO SENSE. Ashley was on the Normandy? she with me
Mass Effect ‏ @masseffect Close
@kyledarrah Probably a good thing to be cautious of.
Hide conversation
10:50 PM - 12 Mar 12 via HootSuite · Details

Alright, I can't be the only one so I'm gonna say it. I think we need to release these tweets as is and then "translate" them for people like me who think they're looking at an ancient, lost language. Seriously, I have no idea what this says. I swore it wouldn't happen, but I am becoming my father. 

Go back up there and look at mine that I posted right before this one. I cleaned it up and made it make sense. Basically this guy says "It's not that the ending went the wrong way, it's that it doesn't make sense. How was ashley on the normandy? She was with me."
Mass effect replies "probably a good thing to be cautious of."
This is the most conclusive evidence yet imo.

[acManic]

Getorex wrote...

acManic wrote...

 Hey guys, new here but I've been following (or trying to follow...) this thread since late Saturday when I beat the game. Like other have said many things just don't make sense to the point where it seems it must have been intentional. And at this point even if it wasn't intentional, it would be stupid of the companies to not realize how they could use all of this to their advantage to make a better ending since a lot of people, including myself probably, would pay for a better ending. 

The only thing that makes me feel like it wasn't intentional is using images meant for other things. I can't remember some right now, but I'm pretty sure someone mentioned how something in the end was originally meant for another scene that was scrapped. And I decided to look through the artbook to see if anything was said about this and I found the concept art for the creepy body filled Citadel hallway, which seems like it was meant to be on the Cerberus base before you fight TIM as a husk (also scrapped) and there is some random looking person there with Shepard. They just reused this area in the ending. And that either means they put everything together for a quick new ending OR the mashing of all these strange things at the end prove even more that it's a dream/hallucination thing going on that isn't supposed to make sense. Andd if someone pointed out the hallway already I apologize 

I too would pay for a better ending (a RATIONAL ending that brings closure, that makes all my choices actually count for ****) but a lot of people wouldn't.  A lot of people would (properly) see this as money-grubbing manipulation, due to poision from EA mainly, to suck money from players for an incomplete game on one hand, and a "fix" that actually brings an ending on the other.  Pay $50 to $70 for a broken game and THEN pay more for a fix?  Really?

Yeah I mean in all honesty, I wouldn't expect and don't think anyone should have to pay. I'd just much rather pay and get closure than deny to ever pay and never get this. I think there are a few options maybe. If they just add a new option for the ending that gives closure then I'd expect that to be free, if they really go into this indoctrination thing and somehow really flesh out the end into an hour or more of play then I'd pay a little.

But I honestly think they could go even farther because in the end it seems like honestly Shepard could be dreaming/hallucination OR being indoctrinated and if they make both options depending on more of Shepard's choices throughout the games that'd be the best way to give everyone what they want I think. Because whether it's hallucination or indoctrination, the end simply doesn't make sense and someone would have been like heyy remember when we said this would never happen or how Shepard would never do this? So actually make it seem at least some of Shepard's choices mattered by offering a split ending with different options for each which make sense and give closure. And if not I'll just still be unable to think about playing Mass Effect or Mass Effect 2 lol. 

[Niemack Saarinen]

VironZ wrote...

Didn't Shepard come into a Prothean orb in the final ME:2 DLC, which indoctrinated the people making the astroid impact plan.

Yeah, Object Rho -- and it forced shep to her(his) knees with its power.. so Shep has been touched by indoctrination.

[ReclaimedHavoc]

AnnaExMachina wrote...

So what would happen to Shepard if she defeats the Reapers with slight indoctrination? I'd hope that without the Reaper influence that she'd be fine, or would she hear the whispers for the rest of her life?

My guess is that he would possibly have bad dreams, but he wouldn't be controlled, or driven crazy or anything.