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[acManic]

Icinix wrote...

BringBackNihlus wrote...

ReclaimedHavoc wrote...

Just wondering, did anybody here suspect hallucination on there first go around?

I was too busy being stupified by the ending to think about that.

Felt like something was off and that it didn't make sense - and was hoping it was something like this - but didn't openly suspect it until I started seeing the similarities this thread has brought up.

I felt like Shepard was going to die sometime after the beam, I thought s/he'd set up the crucible and everything and then either die or be miraculously saved by the Normandy. And the the Citadel opened and I was like okay how is she breathing... and the the whole destroy being red I was like well... that doesn't seem completely correct. And the with the kid being some weird god I was like okay... not too many people seemed to care about this kid and now he's this all powerful reaper god thing. Too strange to be reality. So basically after the TIM/Anderson conversation I was thinking it's not possible that it's real.

[Sl4sh3r]

ReclaimedHavoc wrote...

Sl4sh3r wrote...

ReclaimedHavoc wrote...

XGCFriedchicken wrote...

Niemack Saarinen wrote...

VironZ wrote...

Didn't Shepard come into a Prothean orb in the final ME:2 DLC, which indoctrinated the people making the astroid impact plan.

Yeah, Object Rho -- and it forced shep to her(his) knees with its power.. so Shep has been touched by indoctrination.

Yeah, Shepard was exsposed to the artifact for 2 days without pause. Very possible.

I think the amount of exposure would be enough to give him the dreams, but not drive him to any actions.

I mean, the people on the derelict Reaper had to be there for week(s) before they were indoctrinated.

That was inactive though.

"A dead God still dreams."
It was active enough to emit Indoctrination signals. I doubt the signals were slowed by the Reapers actual awareness. (If I should call it that.)

Regardless it would still be slowed.

And everyone is acting as if Shepard has NEVER been around Reaper tech...

He has implants that are Repear tech. He's fought more Reapers than any other living being in the Galaxy has. He's also talked to 3 so far. Then there's Vega who claims to hear a humming on the Normandy, implying that there is an indoctrination device on the ship (Not 100% prove-able but it fits).

[Fattness132]

just saw this on me twitter:

http://twitter.com/#...403945570086912

seeing as how the only real super spoilers are the endings...maybe i'm just grasping for emerrrgency induction ports.

[HadrianusD]

Personally I'm hoping that it isn't the true ending for a couple reasons. The whole notion or the hero sacrificing themselves or a story concluding in their death is old and tiresome not to mention a pretty big let down and rank up there with the "it was all just a dream" endings that are such poor excuses for ending. A sad thing to have to pull out of your back pocket when it's on par with what many childern finish their stories with.

Though beyond that it comes of as though it was thrown together. A game with so many choices and conquences from those choices to carry over between each installment to be blanketed with the death of our Shepard's leaves a bitter taste, all those considerations while playing were pretty much for nothing, so that comes off as a slap in the face.

Finally on a minor note it's just sad to see all the time that went into building relations (not nesicarily romances) with your crew to simple just be waved away is very disappointing.


But again, the whole "it was all a dream" or "it was simply just a story being told to a child" is a big let down. Let us enjoy the galaxy we worked to save. Let's go visit Tali on her home world, see Jacob and his new family, let Shepard start on of their own if they presued someone.

[Sl4sh3r]

For people that don't like to read the main thread...

Kitten Tactics:

-The endgame scenario is Indoctrination/Manipulation from the Reapers (Harbinger) trying to force
you into choosing to let the Reapers live.
Shepard is not awake during the final scenes.

-Choosing Control - You can not control them, they control you. Shepard says as much to the Illusive Man moments earlier.

-Choosing Synthesis - Allows everyone in the galaxy to be manipulated by Reaper code, like they have done to the Geth multiple times now.

-Choosing Destroy - Breaks the hold the reapers have on Shepard's mind.

-Choosingto destroy all synthetic life option is more Renegade in appearence. Controlling the Reapers is more Paragon in appearence. The Illusive Man's choice should not be Paragon colors, just as Anderson's choice
should not be Renegade. The reapers are saying that Destroy is the worst, Control is worse, and Synthesis is the best. They want you to fail.

-Stating that all sythetic life will be destroyed will giveyou pause; destroying the Geth can force you to a different conclusion. This choice exists for the illusion of choice; the other choices are
ment to sound better.

-Shepard wakes up after Destroy, because the Reaper's hold is diminished. Shepard does not awake in the other 2 "endings" because you are fully indoctrinated by the choices you made to allow the Reapers to win. "Assuming Control!"

-The child does not actually exist. He is an attempt to indoctrinate Shepard. Nobody but Shepard ever sees or interacts with the child.

-When Anderson calls for Shepard at the beginning of the game, when Shepard is talking to the child, Shepard turns back and the child is gone. Shepard has been"snapped out of it".

-When Shepard turns towards Anderson after being "snapped out of it", a growl is heard. In the third novel, when
Greyson resisted the reapers they would make a growling noise once they realized they didn't have him under complete control.

-During Shepard's final dream with the child, chatter can be heard over the radio about nobody making it to the beam. Shepard is still in London.

-When Shepard catches the child in the final dream, they are both engulfed in flame. Going with the child (the
reapers) means Shepard's destruction.

-Shepard has spent alot of time around Reapers. Soveriegn, various Reaper artifacts, the Human Reaper, 2 Reaper destroyers, the Artifact from "The Arrival." Its foolish to assume there is not some level of indoctrination.

-When Shepard wakes up at the end of Destroy, he/she is waking up in London, after being hit with the laser.

Modifié par Sl4sh3r, 13 mars 2012 - 03:25 .

[Noob451]

I fully support this thread.

Modifié par Noob451, 13 mars 2012 - 03:41 .

[defenestrated]

Can I give a fruit basket or something to everyone who has contributed to this theory? Because I was skeptical at first but I'm buying it now and it's revived my ME3 excitement.

[krystalevenstar]

We don't necessarily need to have a DLC to fix this. If the real ending is on the game (people have found multiple unused pieces of -important- dialogue, etc), they'd only need to update the game to get access to it. Considering a title update is required before you even play the game the first time, I don't see how this would be that big of a deal.

[XGCFriedchicken]

Rawgrim wrote...

"-The child does not actually exist. He is an attempt to indoctrinate Shepard. Nobody but Shepard ever sees or interacts with the child.

-When Anderson calls for Shepard at the beginning of the game, when Shepard is talking to the child, Shepard turns back and the child is gone. Shepard has been "snapped out of it".

-When Shepard turns towards Anderson after being "snapped out of it", a growl is heard. In the third novel, when Greyson resisted the reapers they would make a growling noise once they realized they didn't have him under complete control. "


Found this on a blog. Its exactly what happens in the game. Its indoctrination.

This.

[CdnNinja]

Rawgrim wrote...

"-The child does not actually exist. He is an attempt to indoctrinate Shepard. Nobody but Shepard ever sees or interacts with the child.

-When Anderson calls for Shepard at the beginning of the game, when Shepard is talking to the child, Shepard turns back and the child is gone. Shepard has been "snapped out of it".

-When Shepard turns towards Anderson after being "snapped out of it", a growl is heard. In the third novel, when Greyson resisted the reapers they would make a growling noise once they realized they didn't have him under complete control. "


Found this on a blog. Its exactly what happens in the game. Its indoctrination.

Interesting. As well when the child climbs onto the shuttle he recieves no acknowledgment (that I saw) from any of the other survivors or the alliance marines. I know you don't really see their faces but there aren't any motions they make toward helping him aboard.

[novaseeker]

SomeBug wrote...

I have a question, could someone answer it for me? I haven't kept up with the thread.

On Thessia, Shepard talks with the Prothean VI for a few minutes and it describes to him the purpose of the Crucible and its inception.

Then Kai Leng shows up and it says 'indoctrinated presence detected' and shuts down.

If Shepard was indoctrinated, why didn't it detect that he was, only Kai Leng? It seemingly has a device or function which enables it to detect indoctrinated people, even at range. Yet Shepard doesn't trigger these alarms.

This happens like right before the final mission too, long after the point where he first saw the child.

He isn't fully indoctrinated at that point (nor is he ever, depending on your choices).  

[LolaLei]

I think maybe the kid was real to begin with, you do see him playing with a toy normandy in the first scene, also there's a picture of the missing kid on the memorial wall in the holding docks. Someone said you can see the kid running into the room before it explodes, is that true?

[krystalevenstar]

The reoccurring theme of this thread is "I thought you were all bonkers, but then I read the thread..." XD

[AnnaExMachina]

The0ther wrote...

AnnaExMachina wrote...

ReclaimedHavoc wrote...

AnnaExMachina wrote...

So what would happen to Shepard if she defeats the Reapers with slight indoctrination? I'd hope that without the Reaper influence that she'd be fine, or would she hear the whispers for the rest of her life?

My guess is that he would possibly have bad dreams, but he wouldn't be controlled, or driven crazy or anything.

And what about the destruction of the relays? Wouldn't that make system with a working relay go supernova like in Arrival?

In the "Destroy" ending Shepard wakes up back on Earth, in London. So he didn't actually destroy the reapers or the Mass Relays... assuming this theory is correct.

I was adding to the theory. I played all three to see if I made the wrong choice.

[yagaelvin]

So LONG time lurker here at BSN ever since ME2 came out and wandered by wanting to know how to survive the suicide mission.  This thread finally made me decide to post for the first time.

Anyway, there's a lot to say about this thread.  The more I read it the more fascinated it becomes considering I too hated the ending while I loved the rest of the game.  Personally though I only think two things come to mind that we can consider

1.  While all the "evidence" we have is impressive, it's still purely speculation no matter how much we try to spin it.  We have no real definitive proof one way or the other in what the ending is.  That's why the argument could really go either way that the ending was actually a "dream" or just really bad writing.  Always keep that in mind.

2. With that being said, the ONLY thing we know for certain is that Bioware is holding something back.  That's from the various tweets that they've posted in the last week or so (btw if anyone can compile them all in one post would be great) where mostly everyone has said something to the effect of "we can't comment on that yet".  The only exception I think was Mike Gamble(?) who tweeted about "If we only knew what we had planned".  Now that could mean anything from ending DLC (free or not) to anything else involving ME3.

So honestly, while the "evidence" we have is great and everything the only REAL thing that is giving me hope is the fact that no one at Bioware has said anything definitive one way or the other about this besides "No comment"  more or less.  And you know what they say when you can neither confirm nor deny something....

Modifié par yagaelvin, 13 mars 2012 - 03:27 .

[camcon2100]

This would be a very risky but clever move!

I approve!

[xDarkspace]

Kings19 wrote...

MatthewGold wrote...

kyle darrah ‏ @kyleDarrah · Open
@masseffect its not that the ending was taken in the wrong direction its that it makes NO SENSE. Ashley was on the Normandy? she with me
Mass Effect ‏ @masseffect Close
@kyledarrah Probably a good thing to be cautious of.
Hide conversation
10:50 PM - 12 Mar 12 via HootSuite · Details

This seems like a clear indication that the "teleporting squadmates" thing was not an accident ...

You see you L.I and your best friend (who ever you talk to most) with joker on the crash because shepard wants them to be safe so that why you see them in the dream.

Modifié par xDarkspace, 13 mars 2012 - 03:25 .

[G0thicRhino]

Rawgrim wrote...

"-The child does not actually exist. He is an attempt to indoctrinate Shepard. Nobody but Shepard ever sees or interacts with the child.

-When Anderson calls for Shepard at the beginning of the game, when Shepard is talking to the child, Shepard turns back and the child is gone. Shepard has been "snapped out of it".

-When Shepard turns towards Anderson after being "snapped out of it", a growl is heard. In the third novel, when Greyson resisted the reapers they would make a growling noise once they realized they didn't have him under complete control. "


Found this on a blog. Its exactly what happens in the game. Its indoctrination.

I didn't notice that my first or second go, you're totally right on the growl! Nice catch! 

[Fat Headed Wolf]

krystalevenstar wrote...

The reoccurring theme of this thread is "I thought you were all bonkers, but then I read the thread..." XD

Noticed that too. Either we're right or we should totally start a cult. 

[XGCFriedchicken]

JasonTan87 wrote...

If we consider what has to be done on both sides of the coin both for and against this theory:

1. Ending was a hallucination: Shepard wakes up in London rubble after getting hit by reaper laser and resisting final indoctrination attempt. Current ending has no resolution: ending DLC required to obtain closure.

2. Ending was NOT a hallucination: Plot holes the size of the citadel and a space wizard kid coming out of nowhere. Current ending has no resolution: ending DLC required to obtain closure through retcon or epilogue.

In both cases 1 & 2, we need new ending DLC to obtain closure. We can all agree that Bioware hasn't given us the definitive ending that they promised us.

What I don't understand is if this theory was true (and I hope it is), why didn't they give us the final content right off the bat and claim the credit for incredible writing, instead of having to risk this PR nightmare? Withholding such important content with no formal notice or warning will generate alot of bad blood between Bioware and their fans (us).

Gotta make that money man. And they know we will pay for it.

[IronSabbath88]

Again, did anybody think that maybe only Shepard can see that picture? Nobody seems to say ANYTHING about the boy. James and Ashley certainly didn't take notice of him either. Anderson was running right towards the damn thing and didn't see him either.

The boy is all in Shepard's head. It's a way for the Reapers to exploit a weakness in him.

[JediNg]

LolaLei wrote...

I think maybe the kid was real to begin with, you do see him playing with a toy normandy in the first scene, also there's a picture of the missing kid on the memorial wall in the holding docks. Someone said you can see the kid running into the room before it explodes, is that true?

Actually its just one of those fighters, the same as the sunflower girl was playing with, and the same as those you see get shot down in that same trailer, and the same as the one that gets shot down by the oculus things when you are first trying to get to safety on Earth.

[Rafe34]

LolaLei wrote...

I think maybe the kid was real to begin with, you do see him playing with a toy normandy in the first scene, also there's a picture of the missing kid on the memorial wall in the holding docks. Someone said you can see the kid running into the room before it explodes, is that true?

No one but Shepard ever interacts with the child. There is no evidence that anyone sees that photo except Shepard.

[ReclaimedHavoc]

Sl4sh3r wrote...

ReclaimedHavoc wrote...

Sl4sh3r wrote...

ReclaimedHavoc wrote...

XGCFriedchicken wrote...

Niemack Saarinen wrote...

VironZ wrote...

Didn't Shepard come into a Prothean orb in the final ME:2 DLC, which indoctrinated the people making the astroid impact plan.

Yeah, Object Rho -- and it forced shep to her(his) knees with its power.. so Shep has been touched by indoctrination.

Yeah, Shepard was exsposed to the artifact for 2 days without pause. Very possible.

I think the amount of exposure would be enough to give him the dreams, but not drive him to any actions.

I mean, the people on the derelict Reaper had to be there for week(s) before they were indoctrinated.

That was inactive though.

"A dead God still dreams."
It was active enough to emit Indoctrination signals. I doubt the signals were slowed by the Reapers actual awareness. (If I should call it that.)

Regardless it would still be slowed.

And everyone is acting as if Shepard has NEVER been around Reaper tech...

He has implants that are Repear tech. He's fought more Reapers than any other living being in the Galaxy has. He's also talked to 3 so far. Then there's Vega who claims to hear a humming on the Normandy, implying that there is an indoctrination device on the ship (Not 100% prove-able but it fits).

Did they ever actually say that the Lazarus project was built on Reaper Tech? Even then, a lot of things are Reaper tech. That's like saying you can be indoctrinated by being on the Citadel, or flying through to many Mass Relays.

And I never said he hasn't been around Reaper tech, I believe he is indoctrinated, enough to affect his dreams, but nothing else. (Except for the stress caused by said dreams.)

[JediNg]

Fat Headed Wolf wrote...

krystalevenstar wrote...

The reoccurring theme of this thread is "I thought you were all bonkers, but then I read the thread..." XD

Noticed that too. Either we're right or we should totally start a cult. 

This thread is indoctrination.  Run away.