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[Atmosfear3]

If there will indeed be an "Ending" DLC, if they charge for this, I'm not sure there are enough tables in my apartment to flip over due to nerdrage.

[Rahabzu]

camcon2100 wrote...

Rahabzu wrote...

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Trevor Ruth ‏ @TrutHofGaminG · Open

@ALaggyHost @masseffect I wonder if there is anyone out there who actually understood & liked the #ME3 Ending along with me. @bioware
Mass Effect ‏ @masseffect Close

@truthofgaming You're one in a few. You should wear that as a badge of honor. You go against mainstream concerns. )


"Really is Bioware gonna act like their ending is acceptable?"

How many times you gunna post that. 

Until someone actually freaking responded damn.

[CHRIS GRISS3L]

G0thicRhino wrote...

BlackDragonBane wrote...

G0thicRhino wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

"-The child does not actually exist. He is an attempt to indoctrinate Shepard. Nobody but Shepard ever sees or interacts with the child.

-When Anderson calls for Shepard at the beginning of the game, when Shepard is talking to the child, Shepard turns back and the child is gone. Shepard has been "snapped out of it".

-When Shepard turns towards Anderson after being "snapped out of it", a growl is heard. In the third novel, when Greyson resisted the reapers they would make a growling noise once they realized they didn't have him under complete control. "


Found this on a blog. Its exactly what happens in the game. Its indoctrination.

I didn't notice that my first or second go, you're totally right on the growl! Nice catch! 

I have a hard time believing this one because there is a Reaper about twenty or so meters away from the building and is constantly making Reaper sounds. I think the 'growl' for that instant was more a coincidence.

But if it turns out right, then I'll put my foot in my mouth and eat my shoe.

Of course it could be totally coincidence. At the same time it could be a bone thrown to the readers of the books for a very subtle foreshadowing attempt. 

About the kid in the beginning, did anyone notice that no one paid attention to him at all. In almost every war movie or even real life people try to help the kid. When the kid tries to get on the shuttle no one helps him get on and no one even looks at him.

[Rip504]

Was the ending a hallucination?

No you are trying to find meaning in a meaningless ending.

[Karait]

Sl4sh3r wrote...
Show me proof of the "only destroy the reapers" option.

Starts at like 12:15, the path is open, there is only one way ahead, left door to control dont show up

 

[TSgt_ShaneV]

Melrache wrote...

Lugaidster wrote...

Melrache wrote...

I hope this ain't true, sure add more endings, if you so please, but don't take away the one I already have. Sure the ending is confusing, but if we start throwing indoctrination around, then the game is already lost. Nobody has properly survived the indoctrination, Shiala was able to resist it, but she wasn't human. So unless the super human Shep goes even more super, the people who are crying for happy ending would seemingly lose that as well.

You're not making a very compelling argument there. Just because no one has been able to resist indoctrination doesn't mean they Shepard can't. I mean, we're fighting the reapers, by your logic we can't defeat them because no one has done so before. If that's true then Shepard should've shot himself a long time ago (not before getting wasted and having frantic sex with everything that moved).

Cheers

Indoctrination isn't same as fighting Reapers physically, my argument works. You just can't see it.

People have destroyed Reapers before and with right kind of weaponry it was proven to be possible. However there has been no evidence of anyone escaping indoctrination.

I would think that there'd be a difference between indoctrination from Reaper tech/artifacts and being indoctrinated directly from Harbinger (or another Reaper). Nobody knows what and if any effect happens when a Reaper trys to indoctrinate you as there is no data. It could be possible that unless you are indoctrinated through means such as Reaper tech/artifacs when a Reaper tries to "assume direct control" that the effect is not indoctrination at all and a strong will person can fightthe effects.

just throwing stuff out there and seeing if it sticks :-)

BTW - Thanks for the great topic!

[BigBossBoo]

Karait wrote...

It's funny how people who support the indoctrination theory are happy to ignore the question of why on low EMS there's only the option to destroy Reapers. Hell of trickery on their side to only give Shep the option to blow them up.

Also, how come Star gazer shows up even if Earth is oblitarated by low EMS' space magic? There clearly is a regular Earth tree out there, but Earth is no more.

As much as I'd like to see some sort of follow-up to current ending, I'm under no illusion that all those holes which enthusiasts consider messages which support Indoctrination Theory are simply shabby, lazy writing from people doing their 9 to 5 jobs.

Or the thread is exploding too fast for you to notice that I answered this twice already.

The whole point of the series is Shepard DESTROYING the reapers.  Obviously the indoctrination attempt is to prevent shepard from doing that.  If you have a low EMS, that's because you didn't recruit that many people to the final fight AKA you rushed to the end and the littlest amount of game time passed.  Shepard wasn't indoctrinated enough to be confused or manipulated by the reapers and his only objective, destroying the reapers, is obvious.

Fast forward to a high EMS, a LOT of time has passed in the game and indoctrination has taken much deeper root in Shepard's mind.  Now the reapers have the ability to better deceive and cloud his judgment.  Hence the other two options.

[G0thicRhino]

Karait wrote...

It's funny how people who support the indoctrination theory are happy to ignore the question of why on low EMS there's only the option to destroy Reapers. Hell of trickery on their side to only give Shep the option to blow them up.

Also, how come Star gazer shows up even if Earth is oblitarated by low EMS' space magic? There clearly is a regular Earth tree out there, but Earth is no more.

As much as I'd like to see some sort of follow-up to current ending, I'm under no illusion that all those holes which enthusiasts consider messages which support Indoctrination Theory are simply shabby, lazy writing from people doing their 9 to 5 jobs.

Well as some others have said, it's possible that the longer you play the game, as in the more EMS you build, the more hold on your mind the indoctrination has. So if you rush to the end with a low EMS, your Shep knows the costs will be extremely high and that is reflected in the destruction. But at the same time your Shep knows there is only ONE solution to ending the threat of the Reapers.

As for Gramps, I'd say he is still yet another attempt to keep Shep from waking up. In that, Shep destroyed the Reapers and gave the future a chance. He completed his goal and can rest...

I'm not sure if I'm explaining this all that well... 

[ceruleancrescent]

MissMaster_2 wrote...

yagaelvin wrote...

MissMaster_2 wrote...


The evidence is that there are missing dialog that is alreay in the game code and that all BW has to do is send out a patch to unlock it.

I've only heard a few bits and it could be just unused dialogue.  Remember how much unused dialogue ME2 had.....

Yeah but none of that changed the story line. Unlike the unused dialogue of Joker in ME3....that changes the ending of the game...

Also that dialogue was unsed because they had to space out the dossiers for crew members you got around horizon because it was necessary for Xbox to use two discs when originally they had it planned that you could recruit your squad mates in any order you liked, thus limiting certain dialogue from being used.

[MissMaster_2]

yagaelvin wrote...

MissMaster_2 wrote...

yagaelvin wrote...

MissMaster_2 wrote...


The evidence is that there are missing dialog that is alreay in the game code and that all BW has to do is send out a patch to unlock it.

I've only heard a few bits and it could be just unused dialogue.  Remember how much unused dialogue ME2 had.....

Yeah but none of that changed the story line. Unlike the unused dialogue of Joker in ME3....that changes the ending of the game...

OK, dont know that one.   Color me intrigued.  Got a link to said dialogue? 

Ish' no I can't find it. What was going on in that was Jokers banter while fighting Herby on Earth. That messes up the whole 'Normany crashing' thing because he was on Earth not in space by a relay.

[kent80082006]

I wanted the indoctrination theory to be true as much as any of you, I believe there must be more to the ending and the staff at bioware is better than this, but then I found this



The theory currently suggest that destroying the reapers is the right choice, the other two options are placed there by the reapers to stop Shepherd from destroying them, and there is a strong link between choosing the destruction option, breaking out of indoctrination and waking up.

However in this video, destruction is the only option available given that you have an extremely low readiness rating, the reapers are practically commiting suicide if they only planted one option there, and Shepherd didn't 'wake up' and break out of indoctriation afterwards either.

Any thoughts?

Modifié par kent80082006, 13 mars 2012 - 03:44 .

[Ecmoose]

Just want to point out something I just noticed.

I just started a 3rd play through and right after the child runs into the building it gets destroyed by a Reaper laser, this we've all seen.

Well the vent he's found in, is directly in line with the Reaper laser that hit the building. There is NO WAY he could have survived that blast. It blew out the windows and knocked the other vents from the ceiling. Even if he missed the actual blast the heat alone would have burnt him to a crisp. There is no way that kid is anything but a hallucination.

[Terimtetim]

Bioware even said that we SHOULD keep our ME3 savegames for later!

Like already wished more then enough: DLC "Awakening" is going to come! for free would be cool xD

[lavosslayer]

Sl4sh3r wrote...

Karait wrote...

It's funny how people who support the indoctrination theory are happy to ignore the question of why with on low EMS there's only the option to destroy Reapers. Hell of trickery on their side to only give Shep the option to blow them up.

Also, how come Star gazer shows up even if Earth is oblitarated by low EMS' space magic? There clearly is a regular Earth tree out there, but Earth is no more.

As much as I'd like to see some sort of follow-up to current ending, I'm under no illusion that all those holes which enthusiasts consider messages which support Indoctrination Theory are simply shabby, lazy writing from people doing their 9 to 5 jobs.

Show me proof of the "only destroy the reapers" option.

This is true except that you die...and so does earth and everything else in sol....

The reason why is because it is basically the reapers allowing shepard to complete his mission in his mind so that he gives up...since its not really happening as far as the Reapers blowing up for real...he however dies in real time

the reason why Shepard wakes up if you have over 4k-5k EMS is that he has galvanized and hardend his will enough by forging the tough alliances and gathered so many assets together that he actually believes he can win
the reapers don't expect this and end up damning themselves in the process by losing the battle for his mind...

[kyg_20X6]

Shah138 wrote...

I was over on another forum and the point was brought up that in one of the endings it is possible to only have the destroy option available. If that's true than doesn't that punch a hole in this theory?

http://www.gamefaqs....fect-3/62225565

But you don't survive, i.e. you're indoctrinated anyway. You don't actually 'destroy' the Reapers. It is about fighting indoctrination but you also need a high EMS to survive (probably need forces big enough to come get you). If your army collapses it doesn't matter what you do, Harbinger has you.

[ReclaimedHavoc]

Rip504 wrote...

Was the ending a hallucination?

No you are trying to find meaning in a meaningless ending.

Please, tell us more about how you disagree with the dozens of points we have all made.

[BlackDragonBane]

Rip504 wrote...

Was the ending a hallucination?

No you are trying to find meaning in a meaningless ending.

Proof for your counter-argument or no one is going to take you seriously here.

[BlackDragonBane]

lavosslayer wrote...

Sl4sh3r wrote...

Karait wrote...

It's funny how people who support the indoctrination theory are happy to ignore the question of why with on low EMS there's only the option to destroy Reapers. Hell of trickery on their side to only give Shep the option to blow them up.

Also, how come Star gazer shows up even if Earth is oblitarated by low EMS' space magic? There clearly is a regular Earth tree out there, but Earth is no more.

As much as I'd like to see some sort of follow-up to current ending, I'm under no illusion that all those holes which enthusiasts consider messages which support Indoctrination Theory are simply shabby, lazy writing from people doing their 9 to 5 jobs.

Show me proof of the "only destroy the reapers" option.

This is true except that you die...and so does earth and everything else in sol....

The reason why is because it is basically the reapers allowing shepard to complete his mission in his mind so that he gives up...since its not really happening as far as the Reapers blowing up for real...he however dies in real time

the reason why Shepard wakes up if you have over 4k-5k EMS is that he has galvanized and hardend his will enough by forging the tough alliances and gathered so many assets together that he actually believes he can win
the reapers don't expect this and end up damning themselves in the process by losing the battle for his mind...

*high five

[xDarkspace]

Rip504 wrote...

Was the ending a hallucination?

No you are trying to find meaning in a meaningless ending.

and your trying to find a meaning to you meaningless life.

[rockman0]

BlackDragonBane wrote...

AnnaExMachina wrote...

BlackDragonBane wrote...

LenabotSE wrote...

I had always thought that the Reapers had fired a dark energy cannon at Haestrom's sun to make it prematurely go supernova and turn it into a new mass relay. Though, if the "original" ending is anything to consider, that's not really a possibility.

I've wondered about that too. It's one of those things that was never truly discovered or explained in detail. We never learn of Tali's findings from ME2. A curious thing.

A red herring perhaps?

Maybe but according to the info on Haestrom, the Quarian had set up shop on the planet for the sole purpose of studying that star before the Geth kicked them off. There had to be something of importance to that to make the Admirals send Tali into a Geth controlled facility to retrieve something.

I've probably gotten it wrong as I usually do, but I thought she went to that planet to retrieve the geth parts to send to her father, which led to her being put on trial for treason.

Like i said, I was probably establishing connections that didn't exist.

[LoveAsThouWilt]

I think all this backlash is there whole purpose in the "endings" given. They have something planned, but I doubt, considering the importance of it, will be charged. They are letting us stew in our rage and ideas. But things they have said just suggest that there is more to come... just not WHAT.

[MissMaster_2]

kent80082006 wrote...

I wanted the indoctrination theory to be true as much as any of you, I believe there must be more to the ending and the staff at bioware is better than this, but then I found this



The theory currently suggest that destroying the reapers is the right choice, the other two options are placed there by the reapers to stop Shepherd from destroying them, and there is a strong link between choosing the destruction option, breaking out of indoctrination and waking up.

However in this video, destruction is the only option available given that you have an extremely low readiness rating, the reapers are practically commiting suicide if they only planted one option there, and Shepherd didn't 'wake up' and break out of indoctriation afterwards either.

Any thoughts?

We have talked about this. If you rush though ME3 the Reapers don't have time to mess with your mind, thus the only thing you can pick is the thing you set out to do.

[ReclaimedHavoc]

Ecmoose wrote...

Just want to point out something I just noticed.

I just started a 3rd play through and right after the child runs into the building it gets destroyed by a Reaper laser, this we've all seen.

Well the vent he's found in, is directly in line with the Reaper laser that hit the building. There is NO WAY he could have survived that blast. It blew out the windows and knocked the other vents from the ceiling. Even if he missed the actual blast the heat alone would have burnt him to a crisp. There is no way that kid is anything but a hallucination.

That's a great point...

[BlackDragonBane]

rockman0 wrote...

BlackDragonBane wrote...

AnnaExMachina wrote...

BlackDragonBane wrote...

LenabotSE wrote...

I had always thought that the Reapers had fired a dark energy cannon at Haestrom's sun to make it prematurely go supernova and turn it into a new mass relay. Though, if the "original" ending is anything to consider, that's not really a possibility.

I've wondered about that too. It's one of those things that was never truly discovered or explained in detail. We never learn of Tali's findings from ME2. A curious thing.

A red herring perhaps?

Maybe but according to the info on Haestrom, the Quarian had set up shop on the planet for the sole purpose of studying that star before the Geth kicked them off. There had to be something of importance to that to make the Admirals send Tali into a Geth controlled facility to retrieve something.

I've probably gotten it wrong as I usually do, but I thought she went to that planet to retrieve the geth parts to send to her father, which led to her being put on trial for treason.

Like i said, I was probably establishing connections that didn't exist.

She makes mention that she was retrieving data for the Admirals about the star, but never says what it is nor do you ever hear it mentioned again in ME2. The Geth parts were just from wherever she found them I think.

[Lost Cipher]

BlackDragonBane wrote...

Karait wrote...

It's funny how people who support the indoctrination theory are happy to ignore the question of why on low EMS there's only the option to destroy Reapers. Hell of trickery on their side to only give Shep the option to blow them up.

Also, how come Star gazer shows up even if Earth is oblitarated by low EMS' space magic? There clearly is a regular Earth tree out there, but Earth is no more.

As much as I'd like to see some sort of follow-up to current ending, I'm under no illusion that all those holes which enthusiasts consider messages which support Indoctrination Theory are simply shabby, lazy writing from people doing their 9 to 5 jobs.

I actually made a post several pages back that could explain that varying EMS levels not only leave certain options open, but determine the effect of your choice. If you have a bare minimum EMS and only have the Destroy option, the Reaper is basically giving you the illusion of hope, knowing you don't have the forces to fight possibly defeat the Reapers. Plus, you don't get the secret 'breathing' part of the ending if your EMS doesn't meet the requirements.

The higher the EMS, the more afraid the Reaper is of you possibly succeeding in destroying them, so it opens up more options and attempts to steer you away from choosing Destroy.

Its logical, but grasping mighty straws.