57139 réponses à ce sujet

[BDelacroix]

The steps.
Crawl in the dark machine.
The screws go tight all around.
stick a needle in your eye.
Something something.

[Karait]

The whole point of the series is Shepard DESTROYING the reapers.  Obviously the indoctrination attempt is to prevent shepard from doing that.  If you have a low EMS, that's because you didn't recruit that many people to the final fight AKA you rushed to the end and the littlest amount of game time passed.  Shepard wasn't indoctrinated enough to be confused or manipulated by the reapers and his only objective, destroying the reapers, is obvious.

Fast forward to a high EMS, a LOT of time has passed in the game and indoctrination has taken much deeper root in Shepard's mind.  Now the reapers have the ability to better deceive and cloud his judgment.  Hence the other two options.

You can't seriously consider this a convicing line of reasoning. 

[lavosslayer]

BlackDragonBane wrote...

rockman0 wrote...

BlackDragonBane wrote...

AnnaExMachina wrote...

BlackDragonBane wrote...

LenabotSE wrote...

I had always thought that the Reapers had fired a dark energy cannon at Haestrom's sun to make it prematurely go supernova and turn it into a new mass relay. Though, if the "original" ending is anything to consider, that's not really a possibility.

I've wondered about that too. It's one of those things that was never truly discovered or explained in detail. We never learn of Tali's findings from ME2. A curious thing.

A red herring perhaps?

Maybe but according to the info on Haestrom, the Quarian had set up shop on the planet for the sole purpose of studying that star before the Geth kicked them off. There had to be something of importance to that to make the Admirals send Tali into a Geth controlled facility to retrieve something.

I've probably gotten it wrong as I usually do, but I thought she went to that planet to retrieve the geth parts to send to her father, which led to her being put on trial for treason.

Like i said, I was probably establishing connections that didn't exist.

She makes mention that she was retrieving data for the Admirals about the star, but never says what it is nor do you ever hear it mentioned again in ME2. The Geth parts were just from wherever she found them I think.

The geth parts come from a mission in the armstrong nebula in ME 1 where you force the geth out of the system by defeating 6 geth outposts on different planets...at the end you get the parts to give to tali

[trobbins777]

Something else that doesn't make any sense to me. How did any squad-mates get back to the Normandy in order to crash land on an alien planet? Cortez was downed by the reapers, the only mode of transport left on earth looked to be the tanks they took to the beam. So how did everyone get back to the normandy? i doubt the normandy could do an effective pick up without the reapers destroying it. So was that part just a dream too?

[FRancium]

Karait wrote...

It's funny how people who support the indoctrination theory are happy to ignore the question of why on low EMS there's only the option to destroy Reapers. Hell of trickery on their side to only give Shep the option to blow them up.

Also, how come Star gazer shows up even if Earth is oblitarated by low EMS' space magic? There clearly is a regular Earth tree out there, but Earth is no more.

As much as I'd like to see some sort of follow-up to current ending, I'm under no illusion that all those holes which enthusiasts consider messages which support Indoctrination Theory are simply shabby, lazy writing from people doing their 9 to 5 jobs.

An explanation: in the indoctrination theory as I understand, is that whatever Shepard chooses doesn't really happen in real life. So "destruction" being the only option doesn't hurt reapers at all.
A further step: I could argue that if your EMS is low, the reapers are not impressed, thus not inviting you to join them, which is the synthesis option unlocked only at high EMS (this is of course assuming turning into a husk-like state is different from synthesis, maybe a more independent, sentient state?)

I do like the theory, and of course it is easy to find logical solutions to explain anything. 
I'd really like to see analysis of the PC version, to see if any clues/parts are left behind, as was the case with From Ashes.

Otherwise, even if Bioware does nothing, I'll always believe this theory, as I find it more elegant (no final boss, no dialogue with Harbinger, 5 sentences of explanations of the reapers' purpose? no thanks)

[BlackDragonBane]

Karait wrote...

The whole point of the series is Shepard DESTROYING the reapers.  Obviously the indoctrination attempt is to prevent shepard from doing that.  If you have a low EMS, that's because you didn't recruit that many people to the final fight AKA you rushed to the end and the littlest amount of game time passed.  Shepard wasn't indoctrinated enough to be confused or manipulated by the reapers and his only objective, destroying the reapers, is obvious.

Fast forward to a high EMS, a LOT of time has passed in the game and indoctrination has taken much deeper root in Shepard's mind.  Now the reapers have the ability to better deceive and cloud his judgment.  Hence the other two options.

You can't seriously consider this a convicing line of reasoning. 

Then please, back up your arguement with some actual information instead of conjecture. You're not doing anything to help yourself with this line of response.

[ReclaimedHavoc]

Lost Cipher wrote...

BlackDragonBane wrote...

Karait wrote...

It's funny how people who support the indoctrination theory are happy to ignore the question of why on low EMS there's only the option to destroy Reapers. Hell of trickery on their side to only give Shep the option to blow them up.

Also, how come Star gazer shows up even if Earth is oblitarated by low EMS' space magic? There clearly is a regular Earth tree out there, but Earth is no more.

As much as I'd like to see some sort of follow-up to current ending, I'm under no illusion that all those holes which enthusiasts consider messages which support Indoctrination Theory are simply shabby, lazy writing from people doing their 9 to 5 jobs.

I actually made a post several pages back that could explain that varying EMS levels not only leave certain options open, but determine the effect of your choice. If you have a bare minimum EMS and only have the Destroy option, the Reaper is basically giving you the illusion of hope, knowing you don't have the forces to fight possibly defeat the Reapers. Plus, you don't get the secret 'breathing' part of the ending if your EMS doesn't meet the requirements.

The higher the EMS, the more afraid the Reaper is of you possibly succeeding in destroying them, so it opens up more options and attempts to steer you away from choosing Destroy.

Its logical, but grasping mighty straws.

I just assumed that since it only steers you toward destroy, the Reapers know you lost, and they have no need to indoctrinate you. They won, what would indoctrinating you do now? They're just humoring you.
Plus, you don't wake up, so...

[iwillkillfortali]

You knows what's funny during the third dream when I was playing as a renegade shepard my shepard had scars while the other shepard holding the demon did not have any scars.

[Ravax]

Dammit, people are posting so fast on here! I barely have time to finish reading one page that i click next, and 3 pages misteriously appeared! LOL.

I was bummed out by the endings, thought it was a poor attempt to make an artsy fartsy ending... And after desperately scouring the internet for a few days in order to find some sort of minimal salvation, I have come to start believing in the indoctrination theory...

But this could just be us 'wanting to believe' in it so much, that it just 'makes sense' to us... we might be blinded by our desire and hopes that 'that wasnt it, there's more to it!'.

I stand along side you my brothers and sisters! We might give up hope, we might surrender to capitalist ideals, BUT IT IS NOT THIS DAY! (pun intended;))

[LolaLei]

BDelacroix wrote...

The steps.
Crawl in the dark machine.
The screws go tight all around.
stick a needle in your eye.
Something something.

Dead Space 2

[G0thicRhino]

ReclaimedHavoc wrote...

Ecmoose wrote...

Just want to point out something I just noticed.

I just started a 3rd play through and right after the child runs into the building it gets destroyed by a Reaper laser, this we've all seen.

Well the vent he's found in, is directly in line with the Reaper laser that hit the building. There is NO WAY he could have survived that blast. It blew out the windows and knocked the other vents from the ceiling. Even if he missed the actual blast the heat alone would have burnt him to a crisp. There is no way that kid is anything but a hallucination.

That's a great point...

Also someone noted that the vent has a "DANGER DIS VENT IS FREAKING ELECTRIFIED" sign near it, or something. More clues to suggest the child isn't alive. So it's possible that:

A) The kid is alive up until that point.

Or

Shep is already in the process of indoctrination from one of the earlier games. 

[KroganBillie]

ReclaimedHavoc wrote...

Just wondering, did anybody here suspect hallucination on there first go around?

Me. After I got by the beam, my instincts were screaming at me that something wasn't right, and continued to do so up until the scene with the "Stargazer". The only thing that seemed real was Shepard taking a breath in the rubble.

[ReclaimedHavoc]

trobbins777 wrote...

Something else that doesn't make any sense to me. How did any squad-mates get back to the Normandy in order to crash land on an alien planet? Cortez was downed by the reapers, the only mode of transport left on earth looked to be the tanks they took to the beam. So how did everyone get back to the normandy? i doubt the normandy could do an effective pick up without the reapers destroying it. So was that part just a dream too?

We assume it was part of the dream, though the bay did have two Kodiak shuttles.

[G0thicRhino]

BlackDragonBane wrote...

Karait wrote...

The whole point of the series is Shepard DESTROYING the reapers.  Obviously the indoctrination attempt is to prevent shepard from doing that.  If you have a low EMS, that's because you didn't recruit that many people to the final fight AKA you rushed to the end and the littlest amount of game time passed.  Shepard wasn't indoctrinated enough to be confused or manipulated by the reapers and his only objective, destroying the reapers, is obvious.

Fast forward to a high EMS, a LOT of time has passed in the game and indoctrination has taken much deeper root in Shepard's mind.  Now the reapers have the ability to better deceive and cloud his judgment.  Hence the other two options.

You can't seriously consider this a convicing line of reasoning. 

Then please, back up your arguement with some actual information instead of conjecture. You're not doing anything to help yourself with this line of response.

Thank you. <3

[Lost Cipher]

ReclaimedHavoc wrote...

Lost Cipher wrote...

BlackDragonBane wrote...

Karait wrote...

It's funny how people who support the indoctrination theory are happy to ignore the question of why on low EMS there's only the option to destroy Reapers. Hell of trickery on their side to only give Shep the option to blow them up.

Also, how come Star gazer shows up even if Earth is oblitarated by low EMS' space magic? There clearly is a regular Earth tree out there, but Earth is no more.

As much as I'd like to see some sort of follow-up to current ending, I'm under no illusion that all those holes which enthusiasts consider messages which support Indoctrination Theory are simply shabby, lazy writing from people doing their 9 to 5 jobs.

I actually made a post several pages back that could explain that varying EMS levels not only leave certain options open, but determine the effect of your choice. If you have a bare minimum EMS and only have the Destroy option, the Reaper is basically giving you the illusion of hope, knowing you don't have the forces to fight possibly defeat the Reapers. Plus, you don't get the secret 'breathing' part of the ending if your EMS doesn't meet the requirements.

The higher the EMS, the more afraid the Reaper is of you possibly succeeding in destroying them, so it opens up more options and attempts to steer you away from choosing Destroy.

Its logical, but grasping mighty straws.

I just assumed that since it only steers you toward destroy, the Reapers know you lost, and they have no need to indoctrinate you. They won, what would indoctrinating you do now? They're just humoring you.
Plus, you don't wake up, so...

It could also mean you just die. The Reapers are defeated but you just are not strong enough to survive it.

[nevar00]

You know I thought there was something weird with the black edges of the screen and the voices when you were talking to Illusive Man and Anderson, but I took that as sign of Illusive Man's indoctrination I guess.

If they come out with a FREE DLC with the actual planned all along ending and have all those 3 abominations only had been Shep under the effect of indoctrination or something that happened during his rush and the Harbinger attack, well... that would be an incredibly ground-breaking way to go around creating the game's conclusion that I would just be absolutely stunned and marvel at Bioware's ingenuity. It would incredible. Inspiring.

Looking back at the signs (the black edges and voices at the end, the fact that only Shepard sees the kid) leaves me feeling very positive about this situation.

Modifié par nevar00, 13 mars 2012 - 03:52 .

[Karait]

BlackDragonBane wrote...

Karait wrote...

The whole point of the series is Shepard DESTROYING the reapers.  Obviously the indoctrination attempt is to prevent shepard from doing that.  If you have a low EMS, that's because you didn't recruit that many people to the final fight AKA you rushed to the end and the littlest amount of game time passed.  Shepard wasn't indoctrinated enough to be confused or manipulated by the reapers and his only objective, destroying the reapers, is obvious.

Fast forward to a high EMS, a LOT of time has passed in the game and indoctrination has taken much deeper root in Shepard's mind.  Now the reapers have the ability to better deceive and cloud his judgment.  Hence the other two options.

You can't seriously consider this a convicing line of reasoning. 

Then please, back up your arguement with some actual information instead of conjecture. You're not doing anything to help yourself with this line of response.

My line of reasoning is simple. If they want to trick him into defeat they should try to make him put a gun to his head and pull the trigger. Instead, they 'trick' him into blowing them up. It just does not hold and the "time passed" theory is very weak. So they indoctrinated him enough to make him see the god-child but are happy to see him use the destroy route without any opposition? Cripple his mind, do anything, he is going for the destroy route damn it..

[rockman0]

BlackDragonBane wrote...

rockman0 wrote...

BlackDragonBane wrote...

AnnaExMachina wrote...

BlackDragonBane wrote...

LenabotSE wrote...

I had always thought that the Reapers had fired a dark energy cannon at Haestrom's sun to make it prematurely go supernova and turn it into a new mass relay. Though, if the "original" ending is anything to consider, that's not really a possibility.

I've wondered about that too. It's one of those things that was never truly discovered or explained in detail. We never learn of Tali's findings from ME2. A curious thing.

A red herring perhaps?

Maybe but according to the info on Haestrom, the Quarian had set up shop on the planet for the sole purpose of studying that star before the Geth kicked them off. There had to be something of importance to that to make the Admirals send Tali into a Geth controlled facility to retrieve something.

I've probably gotten it wrong as I usually do, but I thought she went to that planet to retrieve the geth parts to send to her father, which led to her being put on trial for treason.

Like i said, I was probably establishing connections that didn't exist.

She makes mention that she was retrieving data for the Admirals about the star, but never says what it is nor do you ever hear it mentioned again in ME2. The Geth parts were just from wherever she found them I think.

Ah. Like I said, I've probably gotten it wrong. That is interesting. I want to know what the data she found was.

[yagaelvin]

MissMaster_2 wrote...


Ish' no I can't find it. What was going on in that was Jokers banter while fighting Herby on Earth. That messes up the whole 'Normany crashing' thing because he was on Earth not in space by a relay.

Eh, oh well.  That could still go either way in regards to the ending.  The dialogue in ME2 had a few things that would have changed the storyline a little (not the overall plot). 

And I just want to add as someone who went to school for business, if this is true and Bioware in facts releases the ending via the network pass for free, that may have to be one of the most brilliant and courageous moves ever. On the other hand, if we have to pay for it then that's just milking your customers for everything

[Konges]

I once thought that a new ending was needed then I watch this.



It made sense and the clues all added up.

OP this is some amazing stuff you came up with. Well done sir. I hope it turns out to be true

[kleindropper]

I'm guessing my Shepard actually died when she got hit by the giant Reaper death ray that can wipe out starships in one hit. Reapers win.

[Golferguy758]

Golferguy758 wrote...

krystalevenstar wrote...

The reoccurring theme of this thread is "I thought you were all bonkers, but then I read the thread..." XD

Actually it's more like: 

Majority of naysayers (notable exceptions somebug and jasontan they provide valid counter points): Bioware is teh dummyheads and you all are drinking the dumb dumb juice. And you are wrong!

Conspiracy people: Please provide us evidence that backs up your claims.

naysayers: STUPID HEADS!

Conspiracy people: Okay, moving on. 

[ReclaimedHavoc]

G0thicRhino wrote...

ReclaimedHavoc wrote...

Ecmoose wrote...

Just want to point out something I just noticed.

I just started a 3rd play through and right after the child runs into the building it gets destroyed by a Reaper laser, this we've all seen.

Well the vent he's found in, is directly in line with the Reaper laser that hit the building. There is NO WAY he could have survived that blast. It blew out the windows and knocked the other vents from the ceiling. Even if he missed the actual blast the heat alone would have burnt him to a crisp. There is no way that kid is anything but a hallucination.

That's a great point...

Also someone noted that the vent has a "DANGER DIS VENT IS FREAKING ELECTRIFIED" sign near it, or something. More clues to suggest the child isn't alive. So it's possible that:

A) The kid is alive up until that point.

Or

Shep is already in the process of indoctrination from one of the earlier games. 

I think A).
He probably saw the kid in the yard, playing with the ship, but everything else was just his mind, trying to give him something to grasp on to.

[twhunter]

For those of you who may not have come across this yet take two minutes to read this. It has been getting a ton of attention and would make an incredible ending that would display all of your hard choices and give Shepard back a voice. Best part is that BioWare might actually go for it since they wouldn't be required to rewrite EVERYTHING. Could it use a few adjustments, sure...but as a jumping off point....YES PLEASE!! It seriously can pull at the heart strings and make you FEEL something again, other than disappointment. Don't just take my word for it read it yourself....

http://arkis.deviant...fset=0#/d4sllwt

someone even started a thread on here in support of it:
http://social.biowar...index/9833130/1

I came across another thread that is "on fire" with a very similar concept just not in the script format that Arkis wrote, it includes a poll:
http://social.biowar...72/polls/29101/

Lastly, for those who haven't joined up yet and want to support this "movement" join up at:
http://www.facebook....ngToMassEffect3

~Proud #retakemasseffect supporter

[wicked_being]

You know what, if this whole indoctrination thing turns out real I don't want a dlc. I want a freaking expansion!