Ce sujet est fermé
MaroonMoore93 wrote...
I believe the "indoctrination" theory is quite a stretch, but I think we can all agree that the events after ZOMGHARBYBEAM!! seem as if they are occurring in Shepard's mind.
"Let this serve as a reminder that, in your darkest hour, there is always a way out."
Fledgey wrote...
Liara's struck me as odd. You wake up from a conduit dream and liara comes in and asks what's wrong. Shep says something to the effect of I haven't been sleeping well. She asks what shep was thinking about and shep says "Kaiden". I was like **** no I wasn't.LolaLei wrote...
ReclaimedHavoc wrote...
Did Shepard ever mention the kid? I mean, they ask what is bothering Shepard so much, are we all sure that the kid never gets mentioned once?LolaLei wrote...
Rafe34 wrote...
LolaLei wrote...
I think maybe the kid was real to begin with, you do see him playing with a toy normandy in the first scene, also there's a picture of the missing kid on the memorial wall in the holding docks. Someone said you can see the kid running into the room before it explodes, is that true?
No one but Shepard ever interacts with the child. There is no evidence that anyone sees that photo except Shepard.
That's true. the picture could be a red herring to make you think that the kid is real or something. This whole thing certainly gives you a lot to think about doesn't it!
I guess the fact that all the way through the game your team mates make comments about Shepards mental state definitely suggests that everything is starting to take its toll on him/her.
Shepard mentions the kid getting blown up once to one of her crew mates (I can't remember which one) saying how it didn't seem fair that the kid and thousands of others have died and Shepard lives.
Changed it to 5k.MissMaster_2 wrote...
Sl4sh3r wrote...
Important links from earlier that you should be aware of...
Both Male Shepard and FemShep can be heard behind the Ghost Childs voice
http://social.biowar...423/223#9840345
http://social.biowar...423/221#9839712
Anything above 4k EMS(approx.) the Ghost Child says "Wake Up" in a calm voice
Anything under 4K EMS(approx.) the Chost Child says "Why are you here?" in a somewhat angry voice
http://social.biowar...423/223#9840323
Mine was at 4523 and I got a "Why are you here?"...I know I did something wrong...like not saving Anderson.
crimsontotem wrote...
Has anyone posted this? I just found out that
around 2:10-2:15 when that little brat (who we now know that voice is mixture of Fem Shep and Male Shep) has a voice of harbinger when he says "The paths are open, you must CHOOSE". I swear i hear Harbinger voice in the back. CHECK!
Sl4sh3r wrote...
Important links from earlier that you should be aware of...
Both Male Shepard and FemShep can be heard behind the Ghost Childs voice
http://social.biowar...423/223#9840345
http://social.biowar...423/221#9839712
Anything above 5k EMS(approx.) the Ghost Child says "Wake Up" in a calm voice
Anything under 5K EMS(approx.) the Chost Child says "Why are you here?" in a somewhat angry voice
http://social.biowar...423/223#9840323
NAWhisperBlade wrote...
Does anyone think that the Stargazer was, in fact, Shepard?
LoveAsThouWilt wrote...
I think all this backlash is there whole purpose in the "endings" given. They have something planned, but I doubt, considering the importance of it, will be charged. They are letting us stew in our rage and ideas. But things they have said just suggest that there is more to come... just not WHAT.
followed after it. No one at BioWare seems to be taking it seriously even with 90% of the fans not liking the endings in one way or another. BioWare has also not made any comments about all the backlash surrounding the ending.
Sl4sh3r wrote...
Important links from earlier that you should be aware of...
Both Male Shepard and FemShep can be heard behind the Ghost Childs voice
http://social.biowar...423/223#9840345
http://social.biowar...423/221#9839712
Anything above 5k EMS(approx.) the Ghost Child says "Wake Up" in a calm voice
Anything under 5K EMS(approx.) the Chost Child says "Why are you here?" in a somewhat angry voice
http://social.biowar...423/223#9840323
Fledgey wrote...
I've answered this three times now, dude. Pay attention. It could be accounted for if we assume shep has been under the process of indoctrination the whole game. If you do a rush job and end with low EMS then the reapers haven't had sufficient time to dig their claws into you so to speak, so the other options seem outlandish. It's all about convincing you their point of view is correct.Karait wrote...
It's funny how people who support the indoctrination theory are happy to ignore the question of why on low EMS there's only the option to destroy Reapers. Hell of trickery on their side to only give Shep the option to blow them up.
Also, how come Star gazer shows up even if Earth is oblitarated by low EMS' space magic? There clearly is a regular Earth tree out there, but Earth is no more.
As much as I'd like to see some sort of follow-up to current ending, I'm under no illusion that all those holes which enthusiasts consider messages which support Indoctrination Theory are simply shabby, lazy writing from people doing their 9 to 5 jobs.
Rip504 wrote...
xDarkspace wrote...
Rip504 wrote...
Was the ending a hallucination?
No you are trying to find meaning in a meaningless ending.
and your trying to find a meaning to you"R" meaningless life.
You forgot the R in your epic insult.(I fixed it for you.) Although true.
I to want a better ending,or a more well explained ending. But you can only take what is in the game.
Any added insight based on your thoughts is nothing more then just that. Trying to find meaning in something meaningless. Lost/Unused is nothing more then lost & unused.
I'm sorry for having an opinion on the matter.
I Wasn't trying to burst your bubbles. I am just saying. The truth is Bioware ended the game like a bunch of polite- and gave no closure,while destroying everything that makes Mass Effect the epic universe it is.
Until Bioware says otherwise or does something completely unorthodox,the end is the end and it was lame.
I am at this very moment about to finish my second playthrough and choose your Destroy option.
In my first playthrough I beat the end twice. The first time I chose Reaper Godhood,because I thought Ash & Tali died. To my surprise they did not. Then I chose The merge option,just to see. Now on my second slightly complete playthrough (just to see the difference between Renegade/Paragon Full crew vs Only 2 survivors etc) I will choose the destroy and maybe further comment on this issue. But No I do not feel as if it is a hallucination,just a poor ending. And a struggle to find meaning in a meaningless ending.
MissMaster_2 wrote...
Karait wrote...
BlackDragonBane wrote...
Karait wrote...
The whole point of the series is Shepard DESTROYING the reapers. Obviously the indoctrination attempt is to prevent shepard from doing that. If you have a low EMS, that's because you didn't recruit that many people to the final fight AKA you rushed to the end and the littlest amount of game time passed. Shepard wasn't indoctrinated enough to be confused or manipulated by the reapers and his only objective, destroying the reapers, is obvious.
Fast forward to a high EMS, a LOT of time has passed in the game and indoctrination has taken much deeper root in Shepard's mind. Now the reapers have the ability to better deceive and cloud his judgment. Hence the other two options.
You can't seriously consider this a convicing line of reasoning.
Then please, back up your arguement with some actual information instead of conjecture. You're not doing anything to help yourself with this line of response.
My line of reasoning is simple. If they want to trick him into defeat they should try to make him put a gun to his head and pull the trigger. Instead, they 'trick' him into blowing them up. It just does not hold and the "time passed" theory is very weak. So they indoctrinated him enough to make him see the god-child but are happy to see him use the destroy route without any opposition? Cripple his mind, do anything, he is going for the destroy route damn it..
Okay, explain how Shep can breath out in OPEN space...none of that could be real...if it is then a 4 year old wrote it.
Modifié par Shunt Mcblunt, 13 mars 2012 - 04:12 .
First thing I noticed when the kid was going towards the shuttle was that he made IMMEDIATE eye contact with Shepard, who was standing on a cargo bay door in a ship that was hovering at least a half mile away. Dunno, I thought that was kinda weird.ReclaimedHavoc wrote...
What do you guys think? You think the kid was dead all along, died during the attack...?G0thicRhino wrote...
ReclaimedHavoc wrote...
I think A).G0thicRhino wrote...
ReclaimedHavoc wrote...
That's a great point...Ecmoose wrote...
Just want to point out something I just noticed.
I just started a 3rd play through and right after the child runs into the building it gets destroyed by a Reaper laser, this we've all seen.
Well the vent he's found in, is directly in line with the Reaper laser that hit the building. There is NO WAY he could have survived that blast. It blew out the windows and knocked the other vents from the ceiling. Even if he missed the actual blast the heat alone would have burnt him to a crisp. There is no way that kid is anything but a hallucination.
Also someone noted that the vent has a "DANGER DIS VENT IS FREAKING ELECTRIFIED" sign near it, or something. More clues to suggest the child isn't alive. So it's possible that:
A) The kid is alive up until that point.
OrShep is already in the process of indoctrination from one of the earlier games.
He probably saw the kid in the yard, playing with the ship, but everything else was just his mind, trying to give him something to grasp on to.
Mhm, that could very easily be the case. Man, I love this thread. Once again, thank you Byne.<3
If he was hallucinating the kid, do you guys think anything was just part of Shep's mind?
kleindropper wrote...
I'm guessing my Shepard actually died when she got hit by the giant Reaper death ray that can wipe out starships in one hit. Reapers win.
Karait wrote...
BlackDragonBane wrote...
Karait wrote...
The whole point of the series is Shepard DESTROYING the reapers. Obviously the indoctrination attempt is to prevent shepard from doing that. If you have a low EMS, that's because you didn't recruit that many people to the final fight AKA you rushed to the end and the littlest amount of game time passed. Shepard wasn't indoctrinated enough to be confused or manipulated by the reapers and his only objective, destroying the reapers, is obvious.
Fast forward to a high EMS, a LOT of time has passed in the game and indoctrination has taken much deeper root in Shepard's mind. Now the reapers have the ability to better deceive and cloud his judgment. Hence the other two options.
You can't seriously consider this a convicing line of reasoning.
Then please, back up your arguement with some actual information instead of conjecture. You're not doing anything to help yourself with this line of response.
My line of reasoning is simple. If they want to trick him into defeat they should try to make him put a gun to his head and pull the trigger. Instead, they 'trick' him into blowing them up. It just does not hold and the "time passed" theory is very weak. So they indoctrinated him enough to make him see the god-child but are happy to see him use the destroy route without any opposition? Cripple his mind, do anything, he is going for the destroy route damn it..
Modifié par rockman0, 13 mars 2012 - 04:09 .
Karait wrote...
FRancium wrote...
An explanation: in the indoctrination theory as I understand, is that whatever Shepard chooses doesn't really happen in real life. So "destruction" being the only option doesn't hurt reapers at all.Karait wrote...
It's funny how people who support the indoctrination theory are happy to ignore the question of why on low EMS there's only the option to destroy Reapers. Hell of trickery on their side to only give Shep the option to blow them up.
Also, how come Star gazer shows up even if Earth is oblitarated by low EMS' space magic? There clearly is a regular Earth tree out there, but Earth is no more.
As much as I'd like to see some sort of follow-up to current ending, I'm under no illusion that all those holes which enthusiasts consider messages which support Indoctrination Theory are simply shabby, lazy writing from people doing their 9 to 5 jobs.
A further step: I could argue that if your EMS is low, the reapers are not impressed, thus not inviting you to join them, which is the synthesis option unlocked only at high EMS (this is of course assuming turning into a husk-like state is different from synthesis, maybe a more independent, sentient state?)
I do like the theory, and of course it is easy to find logical solutions to explain anything.
I'd really like to see analysis of the PC version, to see if any clues/parts are left behind, as was the case with From Ashes.
Otherwise, even if Bioware does nothing, I'll always believe this theory, as I find it more elegant (no final boss, no dialogue with Harbinger, 5 sentences of explanations of the reapers' purpose? no thanks)
In that case apparently there are various versions of indoctrination theory itself. Last I heard god kid tries to fool Shep by presenting control/synthesis as the goodie options (even coloring one of em blue) and thus try to fool him into not destroying them.
As for your version, it kinda invalidates itself. If nothing that happens out there happens in real life, then EMS shouldnt really matter because "in real life" they are not impressed and they do not invite him after all... You're trying to create some complex logical constructions whereas it's simply shabby writing.
BigBossBoo wrote...
Karait wrote...
It's funny how people who support the indoctrination theory are happy to ignore the question of why on low EMS there's only the option to destroy Reapers. Hell of trickery on their side to only give Shep the option to blow them up.
Also, how come Star gazer shows up even if Earth is oblitarated by low EMS' space magic? There clearly is a regular Earth tree out there, but Earth is no more.
As much as I'd like to see some sort of follow-up to current ending, I'm under no illusion that all those holes which enthusiasts consider messages which support Indoctrination Theory are simply shabby, lazy writing from people doing their 9 to 5 jobs.
Or the thread is exploding too fast for you to notice that I answered this twice already.
The whole point of the series is Shepard DESTROYING the reapers. Obviously the indoctrination attempt is to prevent shepard from doing that. If you have a low EMS, that's because you didn't recruit that many people to the final fight AKA you rushed to the end and the littlest amount of game time passed. Shepard wasn't indoctrinated enough to be confused or manipulated by the reapers and his only objective, destroying the reapers, is obvious.
Fast forward to a high EMS, a LOT of time has passed in the game and indoctrination has taken much deeper root in Shepard's mind. Now the reapers have the ability to better deceive and cloud his judgment. Hence the other two options.
years you start up the cycle again just this time you are the reapers. I guess we could say that Shepard becomes indoctrinated on this one.Modifié par Ducktail, 13 mars 2012 - 04:11 .
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