57139 réponses à ce sujet

[G0thicRhino]

crimsontotem wrote...

Has anyone posted this? I just found out that


around 2:10-2:15 when that little brat (who we now know that voice is mixture of Fem Shep and Male Shep) has a voice of harbinger when he says "The paths are open, you must CHOOSE". I swear i hear Harbinger voice in the back. CHECK!

Hm, I definitely heard a third echo. I can't say for sure that it was Harbinger without my headset though. Maybe someone else can give it a quick look?

[ReclaimedHavoc]

omgBAMF wrote...

ReclaimedHavoc wrote...

G0thicRhino wrote...

ReclaimedHavoc wrote...

G0thicRhino wrote...

ReclaimedHavoc wrote...

Ecmoose wrote...

Just want to point out something I just noticed.

I just started a 3rd play through and right after the child runs into the building it gets destroyed by a Reaper laser, this we've all seen.

Well the vent he's found in, is directly in line with the Reaper laser that hit the building. There is NO WAY he could have survived that blast. It blew out the windows and knocked the other vents from the ceiling. Even if he missed the actual blast the heat alone would have burnt him to a crisp. There is no way that kid is anything but a hallucination.

That's a great point...

Also someone noted that the vent has a "DANGER DIS VENT IS FREAKING ELECTRIFIED" sign near it, or something. More clues to suggest the child isn't alive. So it's possible that:

A) The kid is alive up until that point.

Or

Shep is already in the process of indoctrination from one of the earlier games. 

I think A).
He probably saw the kid in the yard, playing with the ship, but everything else was just his mind, trying to give him something to grasp on to.

Mhm, that could very easily be the case. Man, I love this thread. Once again, thank you Byne.<3

What do you guys think? You think the kid was dead all along, died during the attack...?
If he was hallucinating the kid, do you guys think anything was just part of Shep's mind?

First thing I noticed when the kid was going towards the shuttle was that he made IMMEDIATE eye contact with Shepard, who was standing on a cargo bay door in a ship that was hovering at least a half mile away.  Dunno, I thought that was kinda weird.

I just thought it showed the kid knew Shepard was looking out for him, but with all the theories floating around now, I don't know what to think.

[MissMaster_2]

Karait wrote...


Yes! My point exactly! Bioware was happy with a script written by a 4-year-old. Glad to finally agree on something!

Trolololololololololololololol! Derrp Derrp

[The0ther]

Tony_Knightcrawler wrote...

I had seen someone mention that the stage is shaped like a conversation wheel. Well, you know... if you rotate the stage so that it's facing the same direction a conversation wheel normally faces, Destroy becomes Paragon, and Control becomes Renegade.

And if you rotate it the other way, Destroy becomes Renegade, Control becomes Paragon and Synthesis becomes... *cue drums* Dear god! Investigate! 

I kid :innocent:

Modifié par The0ther, 13 mars 2012 - 04:13 .

[Milvushina]

I believe that throughout all 3 games Shep was exposed to enough Reapers to have some degree of indoctrination. I don't see a need to pinpoint a certain time that her indoctrination level was suddenly detectable, by the VI for instance. While I didn't exactly suspect hallucinations at the end, I was very skeptical of suddenly seeing everything in a new light. And I did think that TIM and Saren each must have had their "Aha" moments when they joined the Reapers. And they were wrong.

But I believe the game was intentionally written so that you can interpret several ways. You could also make an argument that Shep really was special, for real this time. Nobody had ever built the Crucible before, so it could be the key to controlling them. Or, if it really "changed" them, the key to merging all life forms.

I don't think there will be another ending because I think they purposefully wanted to be ambiguous. But to me, the right answer will always be dead Reapers. I didn't come all that way to suddenly share the vision of those psychos from the first two games. I don't know if there will ever be an official "true" ending, but I believe in indoctrination. However I try to forget everything after my flashback of Joker, Anderson, and Kaidan because the rest made no sense for any ending.

And I don't remember any talk with Kaidan about some tropical planet. Was that only if you romanced Liara or something?

[Rolling Flame]

But what does it matter, if Shepard beats indoctrination? Ultimately, he is lying critically wounded in a no-mans land with Harbinger looming above. Things still haven't been resolved as they should.

[Sl4sh3r]

Ducktail wrote...

BigBossBoo wrote...

Karait wrote...

It's funny how people who support the indoctrination theory are happy to ignore the question of why on low EMS there's only the option to destroy Reapers. Hell of trickery on their side to only give Shep the option to blow them up.

Also, how come Star gazer shows up even if Earth is oblitarated by low EMS' space magic? There clearly is a regular Earth tree out there, but Earth is no more.

As much as I'd like to see some sort of follow-up to current ending, I'm under no illusion that all those holes which enthusiasts consider messages which support Indoctrination Theory are simply shabby, lazy writing from people doing their 9 to 5 jobs.

Or the thread is exploding too fast for you to notice that I answered this twice already.

The whole point of the series is Shepard DESTROYING the reapers.  Obviously the indoctrination attempt is to prevent shepard from doing that.  If you have a low EMS, that's because you didn't recruit that many people to the final fight AKA you rushed to the end and the littlest amount of game time passed.  Shepard wasn't indoctrinated enough to be confused or manipulated by the reapers and his only objective, destroying the reapers, is obvious.

Fast forward to a high EMS, a LOT of time has passed in the game and indoctrination has taken much deeper root in Shepard's mind.  Now the reapers have the ability to better deceive and cloud his judgment.  Hence the other two options.

I'm going to agree that this hallucination/indoctrination theory is not valid. It seems to me that Bioware spun the end of the game into an "Eternal Return" loop. Even though there are 3 choices at the end of the game, none of the choices cause the cycle to conclude. In fact they can only exist because they exist. See the movie 12 monkeys, the anime Noein, the TV show Misfits, or any of the other sci-fi shows/movies that this is key to the very existence of the universe.

At low EMS you can destroy the reapers but the god child says you will destroy all AI for now (Including the Geth) but your children will go on to recreate AI in a few generations and the cycle will continue.

At medium EMS you can control the reapers and stop them from killing off humanity, but by doing so you become the AI. So in a few thousand (Lets say 50,000 years you start up the cycle again just this time you are the reapers. I guess we could say that Shepard becomes indoctrinated on this one.

At high EMS you get to synthesize AI and Organic . Jeff and EDI become Adam and Eve and create a new race of beings that are both AI and Organic. As they can only exist if the cycle of AI vs Organic is broken they have to insure that the cycle exists. This leads to the creation of the crucible (which the god child said always existed) and the god child who offers this option.    

This has all been explained. Please refer to the OP. Theories are updated there... ALSO

http://social.biowar...423/253#9849828

[crimsontotem]

G0thicRhino wrote...

crimsontotem wrote...

Has anyone posted this? I just found out that


around 2:10-2:15 when that little brat (who we now know that voice is mixture of Fem Shep and Male Shep) has a voice of harbinger when he says "The paths are open, you must CHOOSE". I swear i hear Harbinger voice in the back. CHECK!

Hm, I definitely heard a third echo. I can't say for sure that it was Harbinger without my headset though. Maybe someone else can give it a quick look?

Yes, do plase... that third echo is very distinctive as well 

[ReclaimedHavoc]

Rolling Flame wrote...

But what does it matter, if Shepard beats indoctrination? Ultimately, he is lying critically wounded in a no-mans land with Harbinger looming above. Things still haven't been resolved as they should.

I just think someone needs to slap some medi-gel on it and no one will know the difference.

[ceruleancrescent]

crimsontotem wrote...

Has anyone posted this? I just found out that


around 2:10-2:15 when that little brat (who we now know that voice is mixture of Fem Shep and Male Shep) has a voice of harbinger when he says "The paths are open, you must CHOOSE". I swear i hear Harbinger voice in the back. CHECK!

I can kind of hear that too, or it could be because I want to hear it >_<
Also, I like how she keeps shooting at the GC in that video, it made me giggle

[nranola]

Quick question about TIM: If you pass the final Paragon/Renegade checks, does it always end with him putting a bullet through his own skull? Because if that's the case... TIM's demise was suspiciously similar to Saren's. Could be another hint at Shepard grasping at something from memory and throwing it into the hallucination, maybe?

[BlackDragonBane]

ReclaimedHavoc wrote...

Rolling Flame wrote...

But what does it matter, if Shepard beats indoctrination? Ultimately, he is lying critically wounded in a no-mans land with Harbinger looming above. Things still haven't been resolved as they should.

I just think someone needs to slap some medi-gel on it and no one will know the difference.

Medi-gel fixes everything, remember?

[Sl4sh3r]

Joyceee wrote...

Sl4sh3r wrote...

Important links from earlier that you should be aware of...

Both Male Shepard and FemShep can be heard behind the Ghost Childs voice

http://social.biowar...423/223#9840345

http://social.biowar...423/221#9839712

Anything above 5k EMS(approx.) the Ghost Child says "Wake Up" in a calm voice
Anything under 5K EMS(approx.) the Chost Child says "Why are you here?" in a somewhat angry voice
http://social.biowar...423/223#9840323

Wow! Well isn't this just coming together nicely! You guys are seriously awesome for finding all these tidbits. Never would have guessed or even realised the voices here..... Ugh!? Stop playing with my mind, Bioware!

Credit goes to the original posters. I'm just relaying the message.

They are doing a wonderful job finding all these tidbits indeed .

[thetick2]

I am not paying for a DLC ending that should have been in the main game.

If that is the case, bioware have lost me completely.  First DA2 being awful, now this.  You have got to be kidding me.

[Karait]

rockman0 wrote...

Karait wrote...

BlackDragonBane wrote...

Karait wrote...

The whole point of the series is Shepard DESTROYING the reapers.  Obviously the indoctrination attempt is to prevent shepard from doing that.  If you have a low EMS, that's because you didn't recruit that many people to the final fight AKA you rushed to the end and the littlest amount of game time passed.  Shepard wasn't indoctrinated enough to be confused or manipulated by the reapers and his only objective, destroying the reapers, is obvious.

Fast forward to a high EMS, a LOT of time has passed in the game and indoctrination has taken much deeper root in Shepard's mind.  Now the reapers have the ability to better deceive and cloud his judgment.  Hence the other two options.

You can't seriously consider this a convicing line of reasoning. 

Then please, back up your arguement with some actual information instead of conjecture. You're not doing anything to help yourself with this line of response.

My line of reasoning is simple. If they want to trick him into defeat they should try to make him put a gun to his head and pull the trigger. Instead, they 'trick' him into blowing them up. It just does not hold and the "time passed" theory is very weak. So they indoctrinated him enough to make him see the god-child but are happy to see him use the destroy route without any opposition? Cripple his mind, do anything, he is going for the destroy route damn it..

When you only get the option to destroy the Reapers, everyone dies. Shepard doesn't even get any closure. There're no cheering soldiers. Joker and the crew aren't shown alive. Everything just...dies.

Also, they never say that the Stargazer is on a Earth. As a matter of fact, it looks like there are two moons in the sky, suggesting that's its some other planet.

http://i.imgur.com/pD20i.png

Yes.. okay.. but that doesn't really answer the question of why Reapers' indoctrination turns out to be such a lame effort. And not everyone dies because Shep is still legend according to Stargazer for defeating Reapers.

As for Stargazer, two moons are probably there because there were too on the stock photo they used (and probably had to license . Unimportant anyway.

[MissMaster_2]

Sl4sh3r wrote...

Ducktail wrote...

BigBossBoo wrote...

Karait wrote...

It's funny how people who support the indoctrination theory are happy to ignore the question of why on low EMS there's only the option to destroy Reapers. Hell of trickery on their side to only give Shep the option to blow them up.

Also, how come Star gazer shows up even if Earth is oblitarated by low EMS' space magic? There clearly is a regular Earth tree out there, but Earth is no more.

As much as I'd like to see some sort of follow-up to current ending, I'm under no illusion that all those holes which enthusiasts consider messages which support Indoctrination Theory are simply shabby, lazy writing from people doing their 9 to 5 jobs.

Or the thread is exploding too fast for you to notice that I answered this twice already.

The whole point of the series is Shepard DESTROYING the reapers.  Obviously the indoctrination attempt is to prevent shepard from doing that.  If you have a low EMS, that's because you didn't recruit that many people to the final fight AKA you rushed to the end and the littlest amount of game time passed.  Shepard wasn't indoctrinated enough to be confused or manipulated by the reapers and his only objective, destroying the reapers, is obvious.

Fast forward to a high EMS, a LOT of time has passed in the game and indoctrination has taken much deeper root in Shepard's mind.  Now the reapers have the ability to better deceive and cloud his judgment.  Hence the other two options.

I'm going to agree that this hallucination/indoctrination theory is not valid. It seems to me that Bioware spun the end of the game into an "Eternal Return" loop. Even though there are 3 choices at the end of the game, none of the choices cause the cycle to conclude. In fact they can only exist because they exist. See the movie 12 monkeys, the anime Noein, the TV show Misfits, or any of the other sci-fi shows/movies that this is key to the very existence of the universe.

At low EMS you can destroy the reapers but the god child says you will destroy all AI for now (Including the Geth) but your children will go on to recreate AI in a few generations and the cycle will continue.

At medium EMS you can control the reapers and stop them from killing off humanity, but by doing so you become the AI. So in a few thousand (Lets say 50,000 years you start up the cycle again just this time you are the reapers. I guess we could say that Shepard becomes indoctrinated on this one.

At high EMS you get to synthesize AI and Organic . Jeff and EDI become Adam and Eve and create a new race of beings that are both AI and Organic. As they can only exist if the cycle of AI vs Organic is broken they have to insure that the cycle exists. This leads to the creation of the crucible (which the god child said always existed) and the god child who offers this option.    

This has all been explained. Please refer to the OP. Theories are updated there... ALSO

http://social.biowar...423/253#9849828

@ Ducktail. Please read the thread.

Modifié par MissMaster_2, 13 mars 2012 - 04:13 .

[Thomasrifkins]

Quick flash... the kid gives you the choices and everything, but what happens if you turn your back and go back to where you came from once he did? Does anything actually happen?

[DarkSeraphym]

G0thicRhino wrote...

Hm, I definitely heard a third echo. I can't say for sure that it was Harbinger without my headset though. Maybe someone else can give it a quick look?

To be fair, I'm not certain this is evidence that adds much to this theory at all. There are several voices that are echoing in the background and the Star Child claims he is the one controlling the Reapers. We never find out exactly how much control that entails, so for all we know Harbinger's voice may not actually be the property of a single Reaper but might be one used by the Star Child instead.

[BlackDragonBane]

From LWasHere

Hey, can't post in the hallucination thread as I can't remember my old accounts info and what not and I saw you support the theory...at least I think you do.

Anyway if this hasn't already been pointed out, could you please share this?

Someone was saying something about getting only the destroy ending, and how that would punch holes in the theory or whatever. But if you remember the Collector base desicion, I've been told depending on what you did with it depends on the ending. If it is true that you can get only the 'destroy' option, that is because you destroyed the collector base.
If you saved the Collector base, you're given the control option if your EMS or whatever is low enough.

Sorry if this makes no sense what so ever.

Also one other thing, the Catalyst tells you that if you choose destroy than the Geth and EDI will be well destroyed.

If you choose control, EDI never steps out of the Normandy. He never mentioned that would happen with Control. (at least she never stepped out for me)

[blooregard]

Rolling Flame wrote...

But what does it matter, if Shepard beats indoctrination? Ultimately, he is lying critically wounded in a no-mans land with Harbinger looming above. Things still haven't been resolved as they should.

we don't know the status of the rest of hammer his squad mates could be alive or something maybe they hid? after they saw what they thought was shepard getting lasered out of existence its possible shepard was still alive in the rubble but didn't come to until your squad mates/anderson dragged you to safety

[kyleh619]

Many chose their original endings by whatever color/path they played through. When I went though my canon Shepard, I thought it was rather obvious that destroying the Reapers was my correct choice, and the Paragon choice. I did not let the colors of the choices affect my decision. I didn't even hesitate on my choice. I walked right over and started shooting bullets.

Modifié par kyleh619, 13 mars 2012 - 04:15 .

[xyno]

Thomasrifkins wrote...

Quick flash... the kid gives you the choices and everything, but what happens if you turn your back and go back to where you came from once he did? Does anything actually happen?

I did that and the reapers blew up the crucible. Game over.

[ReclaimedHavoc]

Thomasrifkins wrote...

Quick flash... the kid gives you the choices and everything, but what happens if you turn your back and go back to where you came from once he did? Does anything actually happen?

No, you have to make a choice.

[crimsontotem]

DarkSeraphym wrote...

G0thicRhino wrote...

Hm, I definitely heard a third echo. I can't say for sure that it was Harbinger without my headset though. Maybe someone else can give it a quick look?

To be fair, I'm not certain this is evidence that adds much to this theory at all. There are several voices that are echoing in the background and the Star Child claims he is the one controlling the Reapers. We never find out exactly how much control that entails, so for all we know Harbinger's voice may not actually be the property of a single Reaper but might be one used by the Star Child instead.

they why do we hear male shep and fem shep voice through that kid as well? 

[Icinix]

wicked_being wrote...

You know what, if this whole indoctrination thing turns out real I don't want a dlc. I want a freaking expansion!

*nods*

Hell - I would pay half the original game price for an expansion if it showed all the things we did to create the united (or not) front we put together just to see an ending.