... Ok now I'm really getting desperate LOL!
Modifié par LolaLei, 13 mars 2012 - 04:37 .
Modifié par LolaLei, 13 mars 2012 - 04:37 .
BlackDragonBane wrote...
Karait wrote...
balance5050 wrote...
EMS is a measure of time as well as military strength, the more time, the more elaborate the ruse to trick you into joining. Also you need a high EMS to keep you alive while you're in lala land. Makes perfect sense, they don't need you to join them if the army you amassed isn't enough of a threat.
It still isn't a feasible explanation as to why Reapers merrily lead Shep to the blow-reapers-up button.
I think you keep missing the point.
EMS is based on time.
Rush through the game: Missing alot of assets, resources, and allies: Reapers only give you Destroy because they know you can't win. You don't have the manpower or firepower to, so it wouldn't matter. You'll fail and die, meaning they don't have to worry about indoctrinating Shepard
Actually play the content: Have all or majoirty of assets and resources, gain all possible allies: Reapers suddenly have a massive army to fight. that could possibly destroy them. Self preservation kicks in. The time spent gathering a large EMS score means indoctrination has had a longer time to manifest. Reapers use it by presenting you with 3 options and make the 2 they want appealing to Shepard's sensibilities while making Destroy sound like the worst possible option.
If you give in, the Reapers turn you into a sleeper agent and use you to destroy your fleets and alliances from within.
Don't give in and your resist the indoctrination and can obliterate the Reapers in to particle dust.
Anything not clear about this explaination at all still?
The deicision ONLY determines if you succumb to indoctrination or not, not if the Reapers are destroyed. It's not real, it's just Harbinger trying to keep you from undoing the cycle.
Modifié par Karait, 13 mars 2012 - 04:39 .
ceruleancrescent wrote...
Ecmoose wrote...
FlamingxTsunami wrote...
There's a problem with your idea. TIM was controlling Shepard and Anderson for that brief moment they were there on the Citadel (that makes the most sense). The child is just a familiar manifestation of the Reaper Creator's self (because Shepard probably can't comprehend what he would actually look like). And no matter what ending you choose Shepard dies, and every Mass Relay is destroyed. The Control Ending, Shepard controls the Reapers, which means that he'll make them never attack again. The Synthesis Ending, the Reapers become part of organic life, essentially destroying them. The Destroy Ending, Shepard dies in the explosion of the Citadel and all synthetics are destroyed.
You clearly read the original post.
Good job
/sarcasm
P.S. Shepard does not die in every ending.
Haha, people seem to be slowly losing more and more patience with those who post responses to the theory without being fully informed, AKA reading the OP
Personally I think saying oh you die if your ems isn't high enough is completely wrong. I think as long as you make the correct choice you're golden, but the breathing ending is only shown to the player with high EMS as a "good job" thing rather than an actual gameplay mechanic. It probably happens in canon regardless. But who knows.DarkSeraphym wrote...
BlackDragonBane wrote...
I think you keep missing the point.
EMS is based on time.
Rush through the game: Missing alot of assets, resources, and allies: Reapers only give you Destroy because they know you can't win. You don't have the manpower or firepower to, so it wouldn't matter. You'll fail and die, meaning they don't have to worry about indoctrinating Shepard
Actually play the content: Have all or majoirty of assets and resources, gain all possible allies: Reapers suddenly have a massive army to fight. that could possibly destroy them. Self preservation kicks in. The time spent gathering a large EMS score means indoctrination has had a longer time to manifest. Reapers use it by presenting you with 3 options and make the 2 they want appealing to Shepard's sensibilities while making Destroy sound like the worst possible option.
If you give in, the Reapers turn you into a sleeper agent and use you to destroy your fleets and alliances from within.
Don't give in and your resist the indoctrination and can obliterate the Reapers in to particle dust.
Anything not clear about this explaination at all still?
The deicision ONLY determines if you succumb to indoctrination or not, not if the Reapers are destroyed. It's not real, it's just Harbinger trying to keep you from undoing the cycle.
Call this the profiler in me, but normally people who think they have become ingenius with their stories will leave subtle hints that are accessible to the greatest audience. They make it the responsibility of the audience to pick up on their clues. The part that I take issue with in this theory is the evidence of Shepard surviving, in which many people on these forums have complained about due to the fact that such an ending is extremely difficult and entirely impossible for some to come by without the use of multiplayer or Readiness. I myself have not been able to access the ending without bumping my Readiness up at least 5% more in all of my playthroughs. I would think that if BioWare had this kind of stuff planned out all along, they would have made it a little easier to get this ending; especially since Shepard waking up is one of your strongest pieces of evidence for the indoctrination theory. Right now, it seems to me like BioWare just really wants Shepard dead in your endings, especially since he'll "die" in 6 of 7 endings andthey just tacked it on there so they could say "There, now you have an ending where he lives. Work hard and you can get it. Now you can leave us alone."
Assuming that this theory is true, it also presents a marketing problem as most people will succumb to Reaper indoctrination anyway, unless they are willing to raise their Readiness and its not normally a good practice of marketing to limit your product in such a manner, in this case post-ending DLC, to individuals who are already going to have a problem getting the proper ending to use it in the first place.
I'm trying it with pretty poor quality speakers and I don't have the best ear. I'm not doubting the people who hear it, I just can't.camcon2100 wrote...
Hmm i find it pretty easy to hear hale and meer in that sequence...PKchu wrote...
I didn't hear it, or the Meer/Hale thing.camcon2100 wrote...
Holy **** I heard it!crimsontotem wrote...
2:15 when the kid says "Choose"... Harbinger's echo?
But...
I want to believe. Particularly Harbinger/indoctrination.
I will admit, when I first met the kid and he said I can't help him or whatever, I thought "Hmm, I wonder if this is indoctrination?"
Headshotmaster wrote...
It's probably been said before...
But you know how the end is kind of reminiscent of ME1?
Welp, I remember during the geth arch of ME3, that when we enter the Geth AI world through the VI interface? And how during the conversation, legion tells us that the we see quarians in their suits, instead of outside, because Shepard is constructing them on what he remembers?
I dunno, but it's kind of an allusion to what happens in the end...assuming the end is indoctrination/hallucination.
ReclaimedHavoc wrote...
I'd like to know this as well.Dap Brannigan wrote...
Sorry if I missed this in the thread, but what is the significance of "1M1"?
CaptnObvious wrote...
And anyone else see a link between the oddly random Reaper Turian, and three Husks? Dont they look a bit... familiar to your crew? Not the models though, i mean the princple of having three husks, maybe representing Ash , James and i dont know who else, and Garrus as the Turian. Though i wonder where banshee liara is.ReclaimedHavoc wrote...
Yeah, I think it's funny you seriously see Harby fly away.CaptnObvious wrote...
Except when its plot convenient. Then fogettaboutit.
Beside you mentionned something i thought was interesting: Harbinger is right in front of you, you get up, and he just... flys away. What for? He was guarding the beam anyway, he had NO reason to go, and we don't see anything that gets his attention. He just thinks " oh right, finally ill let that Shepard fellow in. THE KID SAID SO".
I refuse to believe they would only have four guys sitting there to guard the most critical weakness of their fleet.
Maybe you killed your buddies in a indoctrination induced daze?
This makes me resent Bioware, like I'm some kind of idiot for caring about their game.Ravax wrote...
@truthofgaming You're one in a few. You should wear that as a badge of honor. You go against mainstream concerns.
Modifié par PKchu, 13 mars 2012 - 04:40 .
Because Shepard as pretty much lost thier minds...under the power of indoctrination...they keep living in thier dream world....Karait wrote...
BlackDragonBane wrote...
Karait wrote...
balance5050 wrote...
EMS is a measure of time as well as military strength, the more time, the more elaborate the ruse to trick you into joining. Also you need a high EMS to keep you alive while you're in lala land. Makes perfect sense, they don't need you to join them if the army you amassed isn't enough of a threat.
It still isn't a feasible explanation as to why Reapers merrily lead Shep to the blow-reapers-up button.
I think you keep missing the point.
EMS is based on time.
Rush through the game: Missing alot of assets, resources, and allies: Reapers only give you Destroy because they know you can't win. You don't have the manpower or firepower to, so it wouldn't matter. You'll fail and die, meaning they don't have to worry about indoctrinating Shepard
Actually play the content: Have all or majoirty of assets and resources, gain all possible allies: Reapers suddenly have a massive army to fight. that could possibly destroy them. Self preservation kicks in. The time spent gathering a large EMS score means indoctrination has had a longer time to manifest. Reapers use it by presenting you with 3 options and make the 2 they want appealing to Shepard's sensibilities while making Destroy sound like the worst possible option.
If you give in, the Reapers turn you into a sleeper agent and use you to destroy your fleets and alliances from within.
Don't give in and your resist the indoctrination and can obliterate the Reapers in to particle dust.
Anything not clear about this explaination at all still?
The deicision ONLY determines if you succumb to indoctrination or not, not if the Reapers are destroyed. It's not real, it's just Harbinger trying to keep you from undoing the cycle.
Okay, this explanation is logical. Thank you.
I really do hope you're right because this line of reasoning is really smart (like, synthesis as an avatar of Shep's synthesis with the rest of the galaxy), but if I was bet my money on Indoctrination Theory or Shabby Bioware Writers you know where my money would go.
On the other hand though, if that's the case, why doesn't Shepard wake up after synthesis/control endings?
Listen to the word choose. You distincly hear the low key tone of Harbinger.G0thicRhino wrote...
camcon2100 wrote...
Hmm i find it pretty easy to hear hale and meer in that sequence...PKchu wrote...
I didn't hear it, or the Meer/Hale thing.camcon2100 wrote...
Holy **** I heard it!crimsontotem wrote...
2:15 when the kid says "Choose"... Harbinger's echo?
But...
I want to believe. Particularly Harbinger/indoctrination.
I will admit, when I first met the kid and he said I can't help him or whatever, I thought "Hmm, I wonder if this is indoctrination?"
As do I. So are you guys sure that's Harbinger as the third echo? If so, that's a pretty dang big hint.
Fledgey wrote...
Personally I think saying oh you die if your ems isn't high enough is completely wrong. I think as long as you make the correct choice you're golden, but the breathing ending is only shown to the player with high EMS as a "good job" thing rather than an actual gameplay mechanic. It probably happens in canon regardless. But who knows.DarkSeraphym wrote...
BlackDragonBane wrote...
I think you keep missing the point.
EMS is based on time.
Rush through the game: Missing alot of assets, resources, and allies: Reapers only give you Destroy because they know you can't win. You don't have the manpower or firepower to, so it wouldn't matter. You'll fail and die, meaning they don't have to worry about indoctrinating Shepard
Actually play the content: Have all or majoirty of assets and resources, gain all possible allies: Reapers suddenly have a massive army to fight. that could possibly destroy them. Self preservation kicks in. The time spent gathering a large EMS score means indoctrination has had a longer time to manifest. Reapers use it by presenting you with 3 options and make the 2 they want appealing to Shepard's sensibilities while making Destroy sound like the worst possible option.
If you give in, the Reapers turn you into a sleeper agent and use you to destroy your fleets and alliances from within.
Don't give in and your resist the indoctrination and can obliterate the Reapers in to particle dust.
Anything not clear about this explaination at all still?
The deicision ONLY determines if you succumb to indoctrination or not, not if the Reapers are destroyed. It's not real, it's just Harbinger trying to keep you from undoing the cycle.
Call this the profiler in me, but normally people who think they have become ingenius with their stories will leave subtle hints that are accessible to the greatest audience. They make it the responsibility of the audience to pick up on their clues. The part that I take issue with in this theory is the evidence of Shepard surviving, in which many people on these forums have complained about due to the fact that such an ending is extremely difficult and entirely impossible for some to come by without the use of multiplayer or Readiness. I myself have not been able to access the ending without bumping my Readiness up at least 5% more in all of my playthroughs. I would think that if BioWare had this kind of stuff planned out all along, they would have made it a little easier to get this ending; especially since Shepard waking up is one of your strongest pieces of evidence for the indoctrination theory. Right now, it seems to me like BioWare just really wants Shepard dead in your endings, especially since he'll "die" in 6 of 7 endings andthey just tacked it on there so they could say "There, now you have an ending where he lives. Work hard and you can get it. Now you can leave us alone."
Assuming that this theory is true, it also presents a marketing problem as most people will succumb to Reaper indoctrination anyway, unless they are willing to raise their Readiness and its not normally a good practice of marketing to limit your product in such a manner, in this case post-ending DLC, to individuals who are already going to have a problem getting the proper ending to use it in the first place.
Dap Brannigan wrote...
Sorry if I missed this in the thread, but what is the significance of "1M1"?
I hadn't even considered that gathering more EMS = Takeing more time = more cumulative effect from indoctrination. That is really an excellent point.BlackDragonBane wrote...
Karait wrote...
balance5050 wrote...
EMS is a measure of time as well as military strength, the more time, the more elaborate the ruse to trick you into joining. Also you need a high EMS to keep you alive while you're in lala land. Makes perfect sense, they don't need you to join them if the army you amassed isn't enough of a threat.
It still isn't a feasible explanation as to why Reapers merrily lead Shep to the blow-reapers-up button.
I think you keep missing the point.
EMS is based on time.
Rush through the game: Missing alot of assets, resources, and allies: Reapers only give you Destroy because they know you can't win. You don't have the manpower or firepower to, so it wouldn't matter. You'll fail and die, meaning they don't have to worry about indoctrinating Shepard
Actually play the content: Have all or majoirty of assets and resources, gain all possible allies: Reapers suddenly have a massive army to fight. that could possibly destroy them. Self preservation kicks in. The time spent gathering a large EMS score means indoctrination has had a longer time to manifest. Reapers use it by presenting you with 3 options and make the 2 they want appealing to Shepard's sensibilities while making Destroy sound like the worst possible option.
If you give in, the Reapers turn you into a sleeper agent and use you to destroy your fleets and alliances from within.
Don't give in and your resist the indoctrination and can obliterate the Reapers in to particle dust.
Anything not clear about this explaination at all still?
The deicision ONLY determines if you succumb to indoctrination or not, not if the Reapers are destroyed. It's not real, it's just Harbinger trying to keep you from undoing the cycle.
Exactly. As the "reward" keeps improving the last thing to unlock is synthesis with earth surviving. Followed a few thousand points later by a complete 180 back to "destroy" with the only secret ending. It is INCREDIBLY telling and I don't see how we couldn't hold that up as our singular proof to prove the theory. The fact that we have so much more has only served to confirm this in my head.BlackDragonBane wrote...
Fledgey wrote...
Personally I think saying oh you die if your ems isn't high enough is completely wrong. I think as long as you make the correct choice you're golden, but the breathing ending is only shown to the player with high EMS as a "good job" thing rather than an actual gameplay mechanic. It probably happens in canon regardless. But who knows.DarkSeraphym wrote...
BlackDragonBane wrote...
I think you keep missing the point.
EMS is based on time.
Rush through the game: Missing alot of assets, resources, and allies: Reapers only give you Destroy because they know you can't win. You don't have the manpower or firepower to, so it wouldn't matter. You'll fail and die, meaning they don't have to worry about indoctrinating Shepard
Actually play the content: Have all or majoirty of assets and resources, gain all possible allies: Reapers suddenly have a massive army to fight. that could possibly destroy them. Self preservation kicks in. The time spent gathering a large EMS score means indoctrination has had a longer time to manifest. Reapers use it by presenting you with 3 options and make the 2 they want appealing to Shepard's sensibilities while making Destroy sound like the worst possible option.
If you give in, the Reapers turn you into a sleeper agent and use you to destroy your fleets and alliances from within.
Don't give in and your resist the indoctrination and can obliterate the Reapers in to particle dust.
Anything not clear about this explaination at all still?
The deicision ONLY determines if you succumb to indoctrination or not, not if the Reapers are destroyed. It's not real, it's just Harbinger trying to keep you from undoing the cycle.
Call this the profiler in me, but normally people who think they have become ingenius with their stories will leave subtle hints that are accessible to the greatest audience. They make it the responsibility of the audience to pick up on their clues. The part that I take issue with in this theory is the evidence of Shepard surviving, in which many people on these forums have complained about due to the fact that such an ending is extremely difficult and entirely impossible for some to come by without the use of multiplayer or Readiness. I myself have not been able to access the ending without bumping my Readiness up at least 5% more in all of my playthroughs. I would think that if BioWare had this kind of stuff planned out all along, they would have made it a little easier to get this ending; especially since Shepard waking up is one of your strongest pieces of evidence for the indoctrination theory. Right now, it seems to me like BioWare just really wants Shepard dead in your endings, especially since he'll "die" in 6 of 7 endings andthey just tacked it on there so they could say "There, now you have an ending where he lives. Work hard and you can get it. Now you can leave us alone."
Assuming that this theory is true, it also presents a marketing problem as most people will succumb to Reaper indoctrination anyway, unless they are willing to raise their Readiness and its not normally a good practice of marketing to limit your product in such a manner, in this case post-ending DLC, to individuals who are already going to have a problem getting the proper ending to use it in the first place.
It's actually kind of ingenious because the game rewards you on your dedication. The longer you spend playing and exploring, the better your 'reward' is, like with the breathing ending for Destroy with high EMS.
Not everyone will like it but it's something completely different from a game developer, if it's Bioware's intentions.
Fledgey wrote...
Personally I think saying oh you die if your ems isn't high enough is completely wrong. I think as long as you make the correct choice you're golden, but the breathing ending is only shown to the player with high EMS as a "good job" thing rather than an actual gameplay mechanic. It probably happens in canon regardless. But who knows.
SandTrout wrote...
I hadn't even considered that gathering more EMS = Takeing more time = more cumulative effect from indoctrination. That is really an excellent point.
PKchu wrote...
I'm trying it with pretty poor quality speakers and I don't have the best ear. I'm not doubting the people who hear it, I just can't.camcon2100 wrote...
Hmm i find it pretty easy to hear hale and meer in that sequence...PKchu wrote...
I didn't hear it, or the Meer/Hale thing.camcon2100 wrote...
Holy **** I heard it!crimsontotem wrote...
2:15 when the kid says "Choose"... Harbinger's echo?
But...
I want to believe. Particularly Harbinger/indoctrination.
I will admit, when I first met the kid and he said I can't help him or whatever, I thought "Hmm, I wonder if this is indoctrination?"
Ravax wrote...
Christine Dawe @historygeek90
I don't even know that I want to play the 3rd @masseffect now. Everyone says the ending offers no closure and is a cop-out. Maybe DLCs?
Mass Effect Mass Effect @masseffect
@historygeek90 Make your own opinion. Many have actually enjoyed the ending.
and:
Trevor Ruth @TrutHofGaminG
@ALaggyHost @masseffect I wonder if there is anyone out there who actually understood & liked the #ME3 Ending along with me. @bioware
Mass Effect Mass Effect @masseffect
@truthofgaming You're one in a few. You should wear that as a badge of honor. You go against mainstream concerns.
BlackDragonBane wrote...
CaptnObvious wrote...
And anyone else see a link between the oddly random Reaper Turian, and three Husks? Dont they look a bit... familiar to your crew? Not the models though, i mean the princple of having three husks, maybe representing Ash , James and i dont know who else, and Garrus as the Turian. Though i wonder where banshee liara is.
Maybe you killed your buddies in a indoctrination induced daze?
Liara Banshee scares the living crap out of me just by the thought...
But the part where Harbinger leaves is likely part of the hallucination. Shepard thinks that Harbinger thinks he/she is dead and just goes to rejoin the battle with the fleets.
It's a stretch I admit.