57139 réponses à ce sujet

[Noob451]

G4m3_Fr34k wrote...

 I'm almost certain that with the sheer amount of people looking into this theory that this little tidbit has been found somewhere in the 200+ page thread. But since this isn't in the opening post, I have no way of knowing for certain if it's known, so I'll go ahead and reveal what is even more definitive proof this "theory" is true (again if already posted sorry just ignore this post)

Right at the beginning of the game you'll notice the enigmatic kid playing in a pit of grass on the ground next to a road as Shepard is watching. Now we all know this BUT there's a crucial easter egg you probably didnt notice afterwards. AS soon as youre controlling Shepard, play normally following Anderson right until you get to the first climbable ladder. DON'T climb it yet!

Look directly to the right at the building where your eventually prompted to melee the husks when you're out of ammo. See who that is on the side looking through the railing? Yep, it's the kid, who has magically teleported from the ground roadside all the way up approximately 6 floors of a building in minutes from the opening to as soon as the reapers are invading! Obviously impossible, but even more suggesting evidence further on. As soon as you get to when the husks start climbing up the building, the kid will run TOWARDS the husks as he makes it inside ignored and unharmed by both them AND anderson as you two shoot the husks down. If not already discovered, rhis proves without a doubt that the kid is a complete fabrication by Shepard, assumingly due to indoctrination.

Start a new game and try it yourself if you don't believe me. Hell, you can even shoot the kid and he doesn't even react

had to make it easier to read, sorry.

[mooney6023]

Destruction seems to be the only ending choice that makes any sense for Shepard as he has been developed over 3 games regardless of Paragon/Renegade. The other two choices are cop outs only desirable because of the "fear" of losing EDI/Geth (Renegade wouldn't necessarily care anyway.)

"At any cost" has been the theme for 3 games, anything less is giving up. All the evidence contributes to this as presented by others:

* "Husk" Shepard in Control/Synthesis endings
* How wish washy Shepard becomes while talking to ephemeral-ghost-reaper-god-boy. I mean he's acting like TIM 15 minutes previously. Doubts, second guesses, etc. Reaper god boy is playing with his mind.
* Obviously the Guardian/Reaper god boy is in Shepard's head, how else would he know to use the image of the little boy to start with? Hit him where it hurts with his PTSD fantasy.

As far as why we don't getting anything else, I said it earlier as others have. Bioware has followed Square and the rest of the entertainment industry, don't end it when you can serialize it, and DLC makes that easy and profitable as hell.

So yea, I think we'll get some sort of further ending, and not because of fan response, but because they always intended some sort of further development on the ending.

I sincerely doubt that they possibly could have missed the obvious repercussions of the crashing normandy scene at the end on customers. And to have so many potential crew members represented in it? For me it was Joker, Liara, and Javik. That's not an editorial mistake or a bug.

Oh, and from every customer response on the normandy crash, one of the crew members is always one of the people you had with you in the final mission, regardless of who you chose.
--
this is a signature.

Modifié par mooney6023, 13 mars 2012 - 05:32 .

[Auresta]

ReclaimedHavoc wrote...

blind black wrote...



liara and EDI dead bodies at the 1:20 mark. i wonder how this person go it to happen?

Anyone notice how EDI was in a pile of blood?

Happens because of low EMS. Edi's blood could just be oversight on the developers or it might mean something.

[Sl4sh3r]

Lost Cipher wrote...

People who are desperate will believe
what they choose to believe. The fact of the matter is that all the
evidence for the Indoctrination/Hallucination theory, though good on
principle is circumstantial at best. A lot of it comes from sources
outside of the game, like the novels or comics (growls). Also Bioware
tends to recycle assets, most game development studios do as well.
Their has been examples of human
writing and numbers on alien worlds. 1M1 is most likely some
aesthetic piece of art work. The roman numeral M equals 1,000.

The growls are part of the ME Universe backstory and you want to discard it?

The 1M1 theory is clearly not the back bone of this thread. This was brought up out of desperation by a user and has been dismissed. It was recently brought back to light because of the curiousity of another member.

Lost Cipher wrote...

The endings are meant to be open to
interpretation for one reason, and one reason alone. So they can
continue to sell more Mass Effect titles. Casey Hudson telling you to
keep your save, is like ME2 telling you to keep your save file. It
will affect the explanation of the legend of Shepard in ME4.

So you're telling me they lied to us about the 16-17 different endings we were supposed to get. There are multiple quotes from various BW employees stating that not everyones story should end the same, because we're not all playing the same Shepard. Yet we get pretty much the same endings no matter what we do, with no epilogue to tell us what happeneds afterwads?

Lost Cipher wrote...
The voice of Harbinger – Keith
Szarabajka has no credits or postings in relation to Mass Effect 3.

This is another long shot taken by some fans. The voice everyone seems to believe is Harbinger just sounds like an echo to me

Lost Cipher wrote...

This idea that the kid represents the
effects of Indoctrination is a lie, in the Mass Effect art book it
clearly states that the kid represents everyone Shepard cannot save.
This is the most logical definition of this character. The dreams are
the result that the toll of the war is having on Shepard's mind. For
anyone who has fought, its supposed to represent PTSD. You can tell
this by the fact that if primary characters die before each dream,
their voices echo in the dreams. This is most notable with Legion.

How is it a lie? The Reapers try to indoctrinate you through deceit. When Shepard interacts with him he says "You can't save me." You can't see this as the Reapers imposing doubt onto Shepard?

Indoctrination Explaination

Lost Cipher wrote...

Also the practicality of this stunt
makes no sense. People purchased Mass Effect 3 with the promise that
it concluded the story of Shepard. Multiple developers said the game
was a complete experience. To release the game and then release DLC
that contains the “true” ending(s) would be suicide. People might
begin to doubt that future Bioware titles are complete and decide not
to purchase them on release.

The entire end of the game makes no sense. They released a game and promised closure on Shepards story and they have given little to no closure. This alone is "suicide" for them. Just look at the Facebook group and the BSN threads. These are mostly just people that finished the game and it's only been 1 week. Less than that for Europe.

Lost Cipher wrote...

The combination of voices for the Star
Child at the end are to add a surreal quality to the it's voice...
NMNL. The reason for this is simple, voice actors of their quality
and experience cost lots of money.

Why would the Catalyst become the child if it wasn't a part of a Hallucination or Indoctrination? Why would Shepards voice be heard behind the Catalysts?

http://social.biowar...423/253#9849828

Modifié par Sl4sh3r, 13 mars 2012 - 05:33 .

[Mini Jo]

ReclaimedHavoc wrote...

bitcloudrzr wrote...

Mini Jo wrote...

I know most of you dismissed the claim of the Stargazer, but if we lose it to the reaper by choosing Control or Synthesis, how come the galaxy is saved anyway according to this silly man ?

Shepard is a legend either way.

Yeah. This.
The Stargazer scene is far in the future, so if you're going with our canon, Shepard has already awoke from his hallucincation and saved the galaxy.

Except that what have been discuss is that he would fully be indoctrinated, and never wake up. Hence the only way to have Shepard wake up in rubble would be the Destroy ending (denial of the indoctrination).

[savionen]

I didn't hear Harbinger's voice, and think it's a bit of a stretch. It'd be hard to really determine, regardless.

But you can very clearly hear MaleShep and FemShep's voices. I don't really think they'd have the main characters do minutes of extra voice acting, of the same dialogue without any actual purpose.

[CaptnObvious]

ReclaimedHavoc wrote...

blind black wrote...



liara and EDI dead bodies at the 1:20 mark. i wonder how this person go it to happen?

Anyone notice how EDI was in a pile of blood?

Im at my 4th playthrough and i take different partners every time, and there are always just 4 dead soldiers there...
How do you have your friends dying? A good EMS or a bad one?

[AgenTBC]

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

That being said, Paragon or Renegade Shepard sacrificing themselves to take control of the Reapers or becoming the blueprint for all organic/synthetic life to bring near everlasting peace...I believe is the perfect end to a hero who will stop at nothing to save the galaxy, even at the cost of his/her life.

So you're saying that Saren and the Illusive Man were right the whole time and Shepard (fighting to destroy the Reapers rather than control them or merge with synthetics) was the villain of the series, only redeeming himself at the very end by abandoning everything he had struggled and sacrificed for and embracing Saren or the TIM's vision of the future?

Control/Merge choices at the end are exactly what Saren and TIM argued for.

[BlackDragonBane]

Lost Cipher wrote...

People who are desperate will believe what they choose to believe. The fact of the matter is that all the
evidence for the Indoctrination/Hallucination theory, though good on principle is circumstantial at best. A lot of it comes from sources outside of the game, like the novels or comics (growls). Also Bioware tends to recycle assets, most game development studios do as well. Their have been examples of human writing and numbers on alien worlds. 1M1 is most likely some aesthetic piece of art work. The roman numeral M equals 1,000.

The endings are meant to be open to interpretation for one reason, and one reason alone. So they can
continue to sell more Mass Effect titles. Casey Hudson telling you to keep your save, is like ME2 telling you to keep your save file. It will affect the explanation of the legend of Shepard in ME4.

The voice of Harbinger – Keith Szarabajka has no credits or postings in relation to Mass Effect 3.

This idea that the kid represents the effects of Indoctrination is a lie, in the Mass Effect art book it clearly states that the kid represents everyone Shepard cannot save. This is the most logical definition of this character. The dreams are the result that the toll of the war is having on Shepard's mind. For anyone who has fought, its supposed to represent PTSD. You can tell this by the fact that if primary characters die before each dream,
their voices echo in the dreams. This is most notable with Legion.

Also the practicality of this stunt makes no sense. People purchased Mass Effect 3 with the promise that it concluded the story of Shepard. Multiple developers said the game was a complete experience. To release the game and then release DLC that contains the “true” ending(s) would be suicide. People might begin to doubt that future Bioware titles are complete and decide not to purchase them on release.

The combination of voices for the Star Child at the end are to add a surreal quality to the it's voice... NMNL. The reason for this is simple, voice actors of their quality and experience cost lots of money.

First Paragraph: The proof of indoctrination does not just stem from 'out side sources' there is plenty of evidence in the game. Listen to the conversation with Saren, the deranged Salarians on Virmire, listen to Doctor Droyas, the Cerebrus team on the Derelict Reaper, Firewalker mission in finding the artifact, Arrival. There's even a codex that goes in-depth into indoctrionation. Yes it is a known fact to recycle assests in a video game, but the fact that 1M1 is mirrored is either a really  bad over-sight on the texture artists part or it has meaning, since the mistake occurs twice and is glaringly obvious.

Second Paragraph: Open to what interpretation? The endings, at face value, are nothing but confusing and insanely inconsistent. This theory didn't really crop up until more and more people actually sat down and analyzed aspects present during the final run. Not everyone is seeing it or believing it but ending a game with 'open interpretation' is not the best way to sell future titles. As evident to the explosion of rage on the forums, if that was the intention, this stunt has dramatically hurt their potential sales if that's the course of action Bioware is taking.

Third Paragraph: Harbinger had no speaking lines, much to many's disappointments. That's not a surprise

Fourth Paragraph: The child represents nothing more than Shepard's regret at having to not only abandon Earth, but because of all the lives lost from doing so, of the fraglie nature of humanity. Yes the Commander is suffering from PTSD but that does not dismiss the fact that indoctrination of Shepard is frivolous. Suffering PTSD would actually be the perfect chance to subtly convert Shepard to the Reaper's side with his/her resolve weakening as the Reapers continue to destroy. The last dream has voices haunting Shepard as well as the 'oily shadows' that is described as being a sign of indoctrination by the Rachni Queen.

Firth Paragraph: This would be a risky stunt if there is additonal content locked within the game, but also keep in mind the game has not 'fully' released. It is not available world-wide as of yet so it's an extremely ballsy move to withhold the TRUE endings to the game until it has spread completely across the globe. It would be one of the most memorable PR stunts a game developer has every done in the history of games to date. It would backfire if they made people pay for the last of the content but if its free, it's like the fanbase is willing to be more forgiving and all would get the closure they were looking for. Unfortunately nothing supports or denies this possiblity.

Sixth Paragraph: The 'echo' of Catalyst's voice does not match that of Sovereign or Harbinger. There are distinct pitch differences layered underneath the original voice that can be heard. If it was a simple echo, the pitches would still match and the voice would blend. It doesn't in this case.

[Fledgey]

Karait wrote...

bitcloudrzr wrote...

Karait wrote...

Lost Cipher wrote...

People who are desperate will believe
what they choose to believe. The fact of the matter is that all the
evidence for the Indoctrination/Hallucination theory, though good on
principle is circumstantial at best. A lot of it comes from sources
outside of the game, like the novels or comics (growls). Also Bioware
tends to recycle assets, most game development studios do as well.
Their has been examples of human
writing and numbers on alien worlds. 1M1 is most likely some
aesthetic piece of art work. The roman numeral M equals 1,000.

The endings are meant to be open to
interpretation for one reason, and one reason alone. So they can
continue to sell more Mass Effect titles. Casey Hudson telling you to
keep your save, is like ME2 telling you to keep your save file. It
will affect the explanation of the legend of Shepard in ME4.

The voice of Harbinger – Keith
Szarabajka has no credits or postings in relation to Mass Effect 3.

This idea that the kid represents the
effects of Indoctrination is a lie, in the Mass Effect art book it
clearly states that the kid represents everyone Shepard cannot save.
This is the most logical definition of this character. The dreams are
the result that the toll of the war is having on Shepard's mind. For
anyone who has fought, its supposed to represent PTSD. You can tell
this by the fact that if primary characters die before each dream,
their voices echo in the dreams. This is most notable with Legion.

Also the practicality of this stunt
makes no sense. People purchased Mass Effect 3 with the promise that
it concluded the story of Shepard. Multiple developers said the game
was a complete experience. To release the game and then release DLC
that contains the “true” ending(s) would be suicide. People might
begin to doubt that future Bioware titles are complete and decide not
to purchase them on release.

The combination of voices for the Star
Child at the end are to add a surreal quality to the it's voice...
NMNL. The reason for this is simple, voice actors of their quality
and experience cost lots of money.

Unfortunately, this guy is right.

Because it actually didn't say anything?

Come on, if you think about it for a moment this thread is a 50% wonderland 50% coping mechanism.

Sad truth is BioWare failed miserably to deliver an ending to this epic series. As someone said, occam's razor.

The difference between you and everyone else here is we want to believe it and are diving for evidence and we have a lot of solid facts. So many so that it appears that this is either intentional or a monkeys on a typewriter kind of situation. The people like you, however, come in and say no this is silly you're all dumb because I said so and I know everything without any counter points. The guy in the top of this quote thread is the only legitimate counter points I've seen yet. You're just trolling.

[Urumashi]

 This makes....so much sense....dear god...ok, if Bioware actually did intend for even half of this stuff to be true than my faith in them is completely restored 10 times over for how genious this writing/marketing ploy was. 

However,

If this does turn out to be true and they release a 10 buck DLC to "snap out of it" my faith is not only completely lost but i will also be boycotting them to the end of time.

In summary: If free DLC shows up in the next week or two making all of this come true, shut up and take my money.

[Auresta]

CaptnObvious wrote...

ReclaimedHavoc wrote...

blind black wrote...



liara and EDI dead bodies at the 1:20 mark. i wonder how this person go it to happen?

Anyone notice how EDI was in a pile of blood?

Im at my 4th playthrough and i take different partners every time, and there are always just 4 dead soldiers there...
How do you have your friends dying? A good EMS or a bad one?

YOU NEED LOW EMS. CAPPING JUST SO PEOPLE SEE THIS.

[Karait]

xDarkspace wrote...

Karait wrote...

xDarkspace wrote...

if they fail why are they making twitter post teasing about the end?????

Which twitter post you have in mind?

mabye you should read this thread before coming here and saying its the real ending and all the evidence we found is fake

Yes buddy, there were truckloads of different tweets posted in this thread and I should space-magically know which one you're talking about.

Anyway, this guy is from BioWare. He has to say that even a multiplayer add-on with Batarian Soldier should be a reason to hold onto our copies forever. "From Ashes" was supposed to be mind-blowing as well. I mean, just look at the premise. It turned out pretty meh.

Gimme a break dude.

Modifié par Karait, 13 mars 2012 - 05:33 .

[Noob451]

Urumashi wrote...

 This makes....so much sense....dear god...ok, if Bioware actually did intend for even half of this stuff to be true than my faith in them is completely restored 10 times over for how genious this writing/marketing ploy was. 

However,

If this does turn out to be true and they release a 10 buck DLC to "snap out of it" my faith is not only completely lost but i will also be boycotting them to the end of time.

In summary: If free DLC shows up in the next week or two making all of this come true, shut up and take my money.

I think it will be free, but only for those with an online pass maybe?

[yagaelvin]

For anyone else looking for that hidden/unused Joker dialogue at the end, here's a link

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9787569

[Noob451]

don't know if this was stated, but at the very end, when Shepard is talking to the catalyst, everytime they talk there are dream-like echoes, even when shepard talks.

[Doctor Quinn]

Occum's razor is about cutting away excess to institute simple elegant solutions. How is magic crucible that turns everyone into a synth hybrid, kills all synthetic life, or has magic spheres that make the reapers surrender to shepherd simple or elegant? How do these even solve the problems of singularity and conflict that the reapers posit they exist to solve? It is no less absurd than it being a fevered indoctrination dream. In fact it's more palatable if it were.

[RyanC73]

I actually dont have any issue with the outline of the ending itself, what annoys me is the number of questions raised in the ending that weren't explained, like how the child appeared as the VI and why the Normandy left with your squad on it and the fate of most of the crew is left unexplained. It's the ambiguity that's annoying.

[Karait]

Fledgey wrote...

The difference between you and everyone else here is we want to believe it and are diving for evidence and we have a lot of solid facts. So many so that it appears that this is either intentional or a monkeys on a typewriter kind of situation. The people like you, however, come in and say no this is silly you're all dumb because I said so and I know everything without any counter points. The guy in the top of this quote thread is the only legitimate counter points I've seen yet. You're just trolling.

Now, here you are completely wrong. This thread is something of a coping mechanism for me but I can't disagree when a person comes and provides a rational point of view. And how the hell am I trolling?

[Rip504]

Shadow Broker base and Citadel use the same type of engine?

[Miss Vader]

ageofadrian wrote...

Another reason I believe?

The low hum throughout the dream sequences, and you also move at the same speed in the ending as you do in the dreams.

I never noticed the hums- but the slow moving in both dreams and ending is dead on-- sad I didn't catch that:blink:

[Fledgey]

Karait wrote...

Fledgey wrote...

The difference between you and everyone else here is we want to believe it and are diving for evidence and we have a lot of solid facts. So many so that it appears that this is either intentional or a monkeys on a typewriter kind of situation. The people like you, however, come in and say no this is silly you're all dumb because I said so and I know everything without any counter points. The guy in the top of this quote thread is the only legitimate counter points I've seen yet. You're just trolling.

Now, here you are completely wrong. This thread is something of a coping mechanism for me but I can't disagree when a person comes and provides a rational point of view. And how the hell am I trolling?

Because you're being purposefully hostile and inciting arguments. Like right here.

[DarkSeraphym]

Rahabzu wrote...

Well from the body shots from me2 I assume it's not metal plating under his skin, more like pipes connecting parts of his skeleton together and the fleshy parts went through accelerated regeneration due to the Reaper technology.  I believe something similar happened to grayson in the novels.

Take a look at the shots of Shepard's skeleton in the opening of ME2. It's, literally, in pieces. We have no idea to what extent his body had to be repaired, as even the Lazarus Project pieces in TIM's base don't tell us, but from these pictures we can see that his skeleton was in poor shape. I would imagine that synthetics were probably used to repair bones, possibly even to replace some that were missing entirely.

[ReclaimedHavoc]

Noob451 wrote...

G4m3_Fr34k wrote...

 I'm almost certain that with the sheer amount of people looking into this theory that this little tidbit has been found somewhere in the 200+ page thread. But since this isn't in the opening post, I have no way of knowing for certain if it's known, so I'll go ahead and reveal what is even more definitive proof this "theory" is true (again if already posted sorry just ignore this post)

Right at the beginning of the game you'll notice the enigmatic kid playing in a pit of grass on the ground next to a road as Shepard is watching. Now we all know this BUT there's a crucial easter egg you probably didnt notice afterwards. AS soon as youre controlling Shepard, play normally following Anderson right until you get to the first climbable ladder. DON'T climb it yet!

Look directly to the right at the building where your eventually prompted to melee the husks when you're out of ammo. See who that is on the side looking through the railing? Yep, it's the kid, who has magically teleported from the ground roadside all the way up approximately 6 floors of a building in minutes from the opening to as soon as the reapers are invading! Obviously impossible, but even more suggesting evidence further on. As soon as you get to when the husks start climbing up the building, the kid will run TOWARDS the husks as he makes it inside ignored and unharmed by both them AND anderson as you two shoot the husks down. If not already discovered, rhis proves without a doubt that the kid is a complete fabrication by Shepard, assumingly due to indoctrination.

Start a new game and try it yourself if you don't believe me. Hell, you can even shoot the kid and he doesn't even react

had to make it easier to read, sorry.

Any vids on this?