57139 réponses à ce sujet

[mooney6023]

CreepingGeth wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Since someone said that the hidden ending of Shepard being alive was our strongest evidence, I just want to remind everyone that his armor was STILL INTACT in the breathing scene, reinforcing the notion that the whole scene where your armor is damaged DIDN"T HAPPEN.

This, beyond anything else, is the only absolute proof you even need to support the theory. This scene all but writes on the screen in gigantic letters "NOW BACK TO REALITY".

yep, noticed that too now that you mentioned it.  I can see no possible way that the below are all editorial gaffs or bugs:

* shepard reappearing in his armor under earth rubble.
* always having one of you final combat crew in the crashed normandy
* the kid magically transporting up the building at the beginning (unverified by me personally, but I'll test or watch the vid)
* Shepard's personality change while talking to the kid
* The fact that he's breathing vacuum at the end (some new god-like reaper tech?)
* The existence of the effective military rating stat at all in relation to game mechanics

Modifié par mooney6023, 13 mars 2012 - 05:59 .

[Elidor109]

My mind has been blown with the little kid creepily watching you in the beginning stuff.

[DarkSeraphym]

Urumashi wrote...

 Also one last thing i just thought of, when you first encounter the child in the air vent at the beginning of the game i think the first or second line he says is "You can't save me" 

Now let's reflect on this line for a moment, first off what kid would ever say something like that, it doesnt represent any form of youth coping mechanisms, at that age the human brain is programmed so seek out help in the event of an emergency. To put it bluntly, when you were a kid, if you were afraid of a monster under your bed did you go hide in the closet? Hell no, you ran to your parents like the bed was on fire. Second, the statement seems to be a lot less of an answer to Shepard's offer of help and a lot more of a statement to scare him, as the trailers have mentioned that child is supposed to represent all of the people Shep can't save. If the child, this metaphorical Every-Man tells him "you can't save them" its not a response, its a threat from the reapers.

The second (or first, can't remember) statement the child makes is "Everyone's dieing". Now this one boils down a bit to personal assumption but honestly, when has a child of that age ever fully understood death? Would you not expect something more along the likes of "everyone's screaming" or "everyone's running"? For example, if you tell a child of a war veteran that his/her father or mother has died overseas it's highly unlikely that they will understand what it means, they are more likely than not to ask several weeks later "Where's mommy?". The child would be more aware of the more physically apparent evidence of the attack, not of what might be happening to people in buildings miles away. You will notice that there are no bodies within the building where you find the child so how would he even know that people were dieing anyway? Also, and this is really just an afterthought; wasnt the building hit full on by a reaper lazer only seconds before seeing the kid? How the heck would he have survived that regardless of the airvent? The blast hit so hard it broke the door after all which is only several feet away from where the kid was hiding. To go back to the "everyone's dieing" comment this, again sounds more like a threat from the Reapers if anything as, again; by placing the child in the symbolic "Every-man" position it sounds more like the reapers are trying to tell him "We are killing every person you can't save".

Anyway, there's my piece on the matter, happy hunting folks. Keela Selai!

To be honest, I thought this kid was a hallucination but not as a result of indoctrination. I thought that this was nothing more than the sub-concious act of Shepard creating an entity in which he projected his shame onto. His shame being the fact that he was unable to save lives. That was before the Star Child though, as I have no idea what to make out of that. Still don't.

[Urumashi]

AscendBaldur wrote...

Urumashi wrote...

 Also one last thing i just thought of, when you first encounter the child in the air vent at the beginning of the game i think the first or second line he says is "You can't save me" 

Now let's reflect on this line for a moment, first off what kid would ever say something like that, it doesnt represent any form of youth coping mechanisms, at that age the human brain is programmed so seek out help in the event of an emergency. To put it bluntly, when you were a kid, if you were afraid of a monster under your bed did you go hide in the closet? Hell no, you ran to your parents like the bed was on fire. Second, the statement seems to be a lot less of an answer to Shepard's offer of help and a lot more of a statement to scare him, as the trailers have mentioned that child is supposed to represent all of the people Shep can't save. If the child, this metaphorical Every-Man tells him "you can't save them" its not a response, its a threat from the reapers.

The second (or first, can't remember) statement the child makes is "Everyone's dieing". Now this one boils down a bit to personal assumption but honestly, when has a child of that age ever fully understood death? Would you not expect something more along the likes of "everyone's screaming" or "everyone's running"? For example, if you tell a child of a war veteran that his/her father or mother has died overseas it's highly unlikely that they will understand what it means, they are more likely than not to ask several weeks later "Where's mommy?". The child would be more aware of the more physically apparent evidence of the attack, not of what might be happening to people in buildings miles away. You will notice that there are no bodies within the building where you find the child so how would he even know that people were dieing anyway? Also, and this is really just an afterthought; wasnt the building hit full on by a reaper lazer only seconds before seeing the kid? How the heck would he have survived that regardless of the airvent? The blast hit so hard it broke the door after all which is only several feet away from where the kid was hiding. To go back to the "everyone's dieing" comment this, again sounds more like a threat from the Reapers if anything as, again; by placing the child in the symbolic "Every-man" position it sounds more like the reapers are trying to tell him "We are killing every person you can't save".

Anyway, there's my piece on the matter, happy hunting folks. Keela Selai!

Yup, I agree with everything here. A normal child would immediately run into the arms of a human if presented with an invasion of gigantic ****ing robots! Not say "You can't save me." When added to the evidence that the kid does a LOT of teleport like movements through that whole opening ex. Seen  on the ground playing, then off to the right, then running through husks safely, then inside a vent of a seconds before destroyed building, growling when Shephard turns to Anderson, then just gone, with more growling, then suddenly he's at a ship, where NO soldier helps him on? The kid ain't real, he NEVER was.

My god i never even noticed that bit about noone helping him onto the shuttle, that's a total giveaway! also, how the bloody hell did he even get to the shuttle in the first place?!

[NubXL]

You see what you've done BioWare? Your ending was so traumatic that an increasing number of users are resigning themselves to the delusion that the ending was just a hallucination, and that the real one is coming any day now.

[Sl4sh3r]

Fledgey wrote...

ReclaimedHavoc wrote...

Fledgey wrote...

ReclaimedHavoc wrote...

Noob451 wrote...

G4m3_Fr34k wrote...

 I'm almost certain that with the sheer amount of people looking into this theory that this little tidbit has been found somewhere in the 200+ page thread. But since this isn't in the opening post, I have no way of knowing for certain if it's known, so I'll go ahead and reveal what is even more definitive proof this "theory" is true (again if already posted sorry just ignore this post)

Right at the beginning of the game you'll notice the enigmatic kid playing in a pit of grass on the ground next to a road as Shepard is watching. Now we all know this BUT there's a crucial easter egg you probably didnt notice afterwards. AS soon as youre controlling Shepard, play normally following Anderson right until you get to the first climbable ladder. DON'T climb it yet!

Look directly to the right at the building where your eventually prompted to melee the husks when you're out of ammo. See who that is on the side looking through the railing? Yep, it's the kid, who has magically teleported from the ground roadside all the way up approximately 6 floors of a building in minutes from the opening to as soon as the reapers are invading! Obviously impossible, but even more suggesting evidence further on. As soon as you get to when the husks start climbing up the building, the kid will run TOWARDS the husks as he makes it inside ignored and unharmed by both them AND anderson as you two shoot the husks down. If not already discovered, rhis proves without a doubt that the kid is a complete fabrication by Shepard, assumingly due to indoctrination.

Start a new game and try it yourself if you don't believe me. Hell, you can even shoot the kid and he doesn't even react

had to make it easier to read, sorry.

Any vids on this?

This is a big affirmative. I just videoed it. Uploading now. AMAZING CATCH by the way. Absolutely brilliant.

Can't wait to see this

youtu.be/aOxP219KesA Interesting, no?

It is indeed....

[ReclaimedHavoc]

Fledgey wrote...

ReclaimedHavoc wrote...

Fledgey wrote...

ReclaimedHavoc wrote...

Noob451 wrote...

G4m3_Fr34k wrote...

 I'm almost certain that with the sheer amount of people looking into this theory that this little tidbit has been found somewhere in the 200+ page thread. But since this isn't in the opening post, I have no way of knowing for certain if it's known, so I'll go ahead and reveal what is even more definitive proof this "theory" is true (again if already posted sorry just ignore this post)

Right at the beginning of the game you'll notice the enigmatic kid playing in a pit of grass on the ground next to a road as Shepard is watching. Now we all know this BUT there's a crucial easter egg you probably didnt notice afterwards. AS soon as youre controlling Shepard, play normally following Anderson right until you get to the first climbable ladder. DON'T climb it yet!

Look directly to the right at the building where your eventually prompted to melee the husks when you're out of ammo. See who that is on the side looking through the railing? Yep, it's the kid, who has magically teleported from the ground roadside all the way up approximately 6 floors of a building in minutes from the opening to as soon as the reapers are invading! Obviously impossible, but even more suggesting evidence further on. As soon as you get to when the husks start climbing up the building, the kid will run TOWARDS the husks as he makes it inside ignored and unharmed by both them AND anderson as you two shoot the husks down. If not already discovered, rhis proves without a doubt that the kid is a complete fabrication by Shepard, assumingly due to indoctrination.

Start a new game and try it yourself if you don't believe me. Hell, you can even shoot the kid and he doesn't even react

had to make it easier to read, sorry.

Any vids on this?

This is a big affirmative. I just videoed it. Uploading now. AMAZING CATCH by the way. Absolutely brilliant.

Can't wait to see this

youtu.be/aOxP219KesA Interesting, no?

Definitely raises some questions...

[Lugaidster]

Hey everyone. I've been here "preaching" the indoctrination theory for at least 200 pages (since Saturday). However, I just replayed the game and the scene where Shepard is alive doesn't seem to be London. Two things. First, when you select the "destroy" option, there's an explosion that blows in front of Shepard's face (it didn't necessarily kill him, hence the breathing video). Second, when you see him wake up, you hear electricity, not bombings (like what would be on Earth). I have the feeling that we're onto something, but I think it's not a dream. It could be a live indoctrination attempt.

Do remember that the Citadel itself doesn't blow up entirely, you just see some explosions.

BTW, the model of the gun that has 1M1 has 1M1 backwards when you see it on the other side, that kinda rules out that for me.

I'd like to reignite this debate. I do believe it has to be something with indoctrination but I feel we're off in something. Some detail perhaps.

Cheers.

[Ananka]

G0thicRhino wrote...

ReclaimedHavoc wrote...

Ecmoose wrote...

Just want to point out something I just noticed.

I just started a 3rd play through and right after the child runs into the building it gets destroyed by a Reaper laser, this we've all seen.

Well the vent he's found in, is directly in line with the Reaper laser that hit the building. There is NO WAY he could have survived that blast. It blew out the windows and knocked the other vents from the ceiling. Even if he missed the actual blast the heat alone would have burnt him to a crisp. There is no way that kid is anything but a hallucination.

That's a great point...

Also someone noted that the vent has a "DANGER DIS VENT IS FREAKING ELECTRIFIED" sign near it, or something. More clues to suggest the child isn't alive. So it's possible that:

A) The kid is alive up until that point.

Or

Shep is already in the process of indoctrination from one of the earlier games. 

I think Shep has been in the process of indoctrination at least since Arrival. She was in the same room as Object Rho, which took her out with some weird pulses. She was kept in the Arrival medical facility for some time. Kept alive, mind you, when it would have been far easier to just kill her when she was out. Kenson and her crew definitely had a purpose for that.

I don't think the kid is ever alive. Nobody ever acknowledges him. He's a sole kid climbing aboard a shuttle in a military area, nobody helps him on the shuttle and nobody seems to be there to take care of him (no parents there or any other adults.). I'm pretty convinced that the kid is a figment of Shep's imagination, but whether he is so because she's indoctrinated, or if he just serves as a manifestation of everything she loses I'm not sure.

Modifié par Annaka, 13 mars 2012 - 06:02 .

[ReclaimedHavoc]

NubXL wrote...

You see what you've done BioWare? Your ending was so traumatic that an increasing number of users are resigning themselves to the delusion that the ending was just a hallucination, and that the real one is coming any day now.

I'm just gonna make an assumption and say you haven't read anything here.

[Joe920]

At least it didn't end like The Sopranos.

Your Shep and squad are standing before the Conduit, preparing to make the final assault on the Citadel and "POOF!" darkness...Stargazer story...roll credits...distribute the pitchforks and torches...assault BioWare HQ like it's the citadel and create our own ending!

But seriously, I think they have something up their collective sleeve...

[Auresta]

ReclaimedHavoc wrote...

Fledgey wrote...

ReclaimedHavoc wrote...

Fledgey wrote...

ReclaimedHavoc wrote...

Noob451 wrote...

G4m3_Fr34k wrote...

 I'm almost certain that with the sheer amount of people looking into this theory that this little tidbit has been found somewhere in the 200+ page thread. But since this isn't in the opening post, I have no way of knowing for certain if it's known, so I'll go ahead and reveal what is even more definitive proof this "theory" is true (again if already posted sorry just ignore this post)

Right at the beginning of the game you'll notice the enigmatic kid playing in a pit of grass on the ground next to a road as Shepard is watching. Now we all know this BUT there's a crucial easter egg you probably didnt notice afterwards. AS soon as youre controlling Shepard, play normally following Anderson right until you get to the first climbable ladder. DON'T climb it yet!

Look directly to the right at the building where your eventually prompted to melee the husks when you're out of ammo. See who that is on the side looking through the railing? Yep, it's the kid, who has magically teleported from the ground roadside all the way up approximately 6 floors of a building in minutes from the opening to as soon as the reapers are invading! Obviously impossible, but even more suggesting evidence further on. As soon as you get to when the husks start climbing up the building, the kid will run TOWARDS the husks as he makes it inside ignored and unharmed by both them AND anderson as you two shoot the husks down. If not already discovered, rhis proves without a doubt that the kid is a complete fabrication by Shepard, assumingly due to indoctrination.

Start a new game and try it yourself if you don't believe me. Hell, you can even shoot the kid and he doesn't even react

had to make it easier to read, sorry.

Any vids on this?

This is a big affirmative. I just videoed it. Uploading now. AMAZING CATCH by the way. Absolutely brilliant.

Can't wait to see this

youtu.be/aOxP219KesA Interesting, no?

Definitely raises some questions...

I don't really see the kid. Could someone upload footage of the kid running in as well?

[BringTheNoisia]

 Just checked the kid thing for myself - definitely confirmed. You can watch him run into the building that is about to get lasered as you're "supposed" to be shooting the husks climbing the building wall. No video though.

Insane!

[Rahabzu]

Lugaidster wrote...

Hey everyone. I've been here "preaching" the indoctrination theory for at least 200 pages (since Saturday). However, I just replayed the game and the scene where Shepard is alive doesn't seem to be London. Two things. First, when you select the "destroy" option, there's an explosion that blows in front of Shepard's face (it didn't necessarily kill him, hence the breathing video). Second, when you see him wake up, you hear electricity, not bombings (like what would be on Earth). I have the feeling that we're onto something, but I think it's not a dream. It could be a live indoctrination attempt.

Do remember that the Citadel itself doesn't blow up entirely, you just see some explosions.

BTW, the model of the gun that has 1M1 has 1M1 backwards when you see it on the other side, that kinda rules out that for me.

I'd like to reignite this debate. I do believe it has to be something with indoctrination but I feel we're off in something. Some detail perhaps.

Cheers.

Breathing in a vacuum is still a problem.

[BigBossBoo]

 I'm not sure if someone has pics/vids of the kid but I grabbed two.  The second CLEARLY shows it's the kid... creepy.

[CreepingGeth]

Lugaidster wrote...

Hey everyone. I've been here "preaching" the indoctrination theory for at least 200 pages (since Saturday). However, I just replayed the game and the scene where Shepard is alive doesn't seem to be London. Two things. First, when you select the "destroy" option, there's an explosion that blows in front of Shepard's face (it didn't necessarily kill him, hence the breathing video). Second, when you see him wake up, you hear electricity, not bombings (like what would be on Earth). I have the feeling that we're onto something, but I think it's not a dream. It could be a live indoctrination attempt.

Do remember that the Citadel itself doesn't blow up entirely, you just see some explosions.

BTW, the model of the gun that has 1M1 has 1M1 backwards when you see it on the other side, that kinda rules out that for me.

I'd like to reignite this debate. I do believe it has to be something with indoctrination but I feel we're off in something. Some detail perhaps.

Cheers.

In the wake up scene Shepard is wearing armor though, which was mostly destroyed during the ending.

[MasterMenace]

I've stayed silent this entire matter, but I have READ each ENTIRE POST in this thread.

Parts are coming together.

Things may be a muddy or displaced.

However, there is one certain thing.

The ending is an indoctrination test. The ending doesn't directly tell you after you see Shepard breathing that you won. You need to assume that you broke Indoctrination..and now it's time for Shepard to really win the war. Clear minded the day he was when he was just doing "another routine mission..."

It all makes sense except the 3 color choices makes things more confusing and the Normandy when they really shouldn't have been confusing.

To really wrap this conflict of closure, BioWare needs to validate this theory because ... ffs...it's 95% true. THE ENDING WAS AN INDOCTRINATIONT TEST No questions.

I will not accept any other ending. It's clear what is happening and we have proof and we have finally taking the clues and hints thrown at us throught the entire game from the kid to the shadows to the dreams. It all means something. And it comes together in the end in a cryptic way.

It's either fabulously designed by BW or horribly "EXECUTED" by BW. Not saying their "intention" was bad, just executed poorly or should I say...in a less cohesive experience for the gamers.

TL;DR: Don't argue with each other. It's clear this was an Indoctrination Test. There's guarantee hope that Shepard beats the test, conquers his fear, keeps his resolve, and wakes up. When you see him breathe...that means Shepard is AWAKE. He is the Shepard we knew to love and become. It's just another routine mission.

Kick some Reaper Ass.

Normandy jungle bc. aside readiness, TMS, EMS, aside...it all comes down to a simple fact.

Shepard is alive, and beats the Reapers.

What makes us great is that we can make choices. Shepard is that very definition of what it means to be a human. No other species has come close to that "realization" and THAT IS something Harbinger CAN'T EVEN COMPREHEND.

If you make the Reapers not be able to comprehend what we are as the Human race...

Then you can beat the Reapers.
And that is what Shepard has done.

[mr.surv]

Anyone noticed 4 new galactics after beating the game?

[neofayyt25]

BigBossBoo wrote...

 I'm not sure if someone has pics/vids of the kid but I grabbed two.  The second CLEARLY shows it's the kid... creepy.

This is rather creepy...

[balance5050]

They've sold more than 3.5 million copies so I don't think it matters what people "say" they will do.
If this all goes the way I (and some others I'm sure) think it will, starting March 15, EVERYONE will need to play this game if they want to call themselves gamers. The buzz about it will be off the charts, and they will need to buy the first two if they haven't played them because they ALL allude to indoctrination.

Only those of us who have played all three game will "see" everything.

Modifié par balance5050, 13 mars 2012 - 06:05 .

[BlackDragonBane]

This might be difficult to see, but this is a comparison of the armor during the indoctrinated hallucination and the final 'breathing' scene. The damage is identical, which confirms that Shepard was attacked my Harbinger and likely never made it to the Conduit, given all the rubble around them.

[ceruleancrescent]

neofayyt25 wrote...

BigBossBoo wrote...

 I'm not sure if someone has pics/vids of the kid but I grabbed two.  The second CLEARLY shows it's the kid... creepy.

This is rather creepy...

O_O

[ReclaimedHavoc]

mr.surv wrote...

Anyone noticed 4 new galactics after beating the game?

What are you talking about?

[MissMaster_2]

Fledgey wrote...

ReclaimedHavoc wrote...

Fledgey wrote...

ReclaimedHavoc wrote...

Noob451 wrote...

G4m3_Fr34k wrote...

 I'm almost certain that with the sheer amount of people looking into this theory that this little tidbit has been found somewhere in the 200+ page thread. But since this isn't in the opening post, I have no way of knowing for certain if it's known, so I'll go ahead and reveal what is even more definitive proof this "theory" is true (again if already posted sorry just ignore this post)

Right at the beginning of the game you'll notice the enigmatic kid playing in a pit of grass on the ground next to a road as Shepard is watching. Now we all know this BUT there's a crucial easter egg you probably didnt notice afterwards. AS soon as youre controlling Shepard, play normally following Anderson right until you get to the first climbable ladder. DON'T climb it yet!

Look directly to the right at the building where your eventually prompted to melee the husks when you're out of ammo. See who that is on the side looking through the railing? Yep, it's the kid, who has magically teleported from the ground roadside all the way up approximately 6 floors of a building in minutes from the opening to as soon as the reapers are invading! Obviously impossible, but even more suggesting evidence further on. As soon as you get to when the husks start climbing up the building, the kid will run TOWARDS the husks as he makes it inside ignored and unharmed by both them AND anderson as you two shoot the husks down. If not already discovered, rhis proves without a doubt that the kid is a complete fabrication by Shepard, assumingly due to indoctrination.

Start a new game and try it yourself if you don't believe me. Hell, you can even shoot the kid and he doesn't even react

had to make it easier to read, sorry.

Any vids on this?

This is a big affirmative. I just videoed it. Uploading now. AMAZING CATCH by the way. Absolutely brilliant.

Can't wait to see this

youtu.be/aOxP219KesA Interesting, no?

WOW

[Elidor109]

mr.surv wrote...

Anyone noticed 4 new galactics after beating the game?

Galactics?