57139 réponses à ce sujet

[xGhost4000x]

Joyceee wrote...

Anybody know where we can get those cool 'Indoctrination Theory' signature banners?

http://img27.imagesh...octrination.jpg 

That is the image, you'd just have to link it to this thread. 

[G0thicRhino]

ReclaimedHavoc wrote...

G0thicRhino wrote...

DarkSeraphym wrote...

G0thicRhino wrote...

While all may be a long shot, we're still giving Bioware the benefit of the doubt here. 

With most games the outside fiction stays outside of the games, but the fact is, ME3 ties more over from it's fiction (books, comics, etc.) than any other game I've played recently. So I don't see those tie-ins as reaching. I do however, agree with you on the 1m1. I think it's just a recycling of game assets, Bioware has always been rather notorious for that. Which I'm totally fine with. At the same time, you could explain those away as Shep's mind rationalizing the dream. ( I don't know that I believe that one yet.)

As for the kid, sure. I thought throughtout my first playthrough it was a form of PTSD and I found it completely compelling. So we say the kid in the nightmares isn't a form of indoctrination. At the end of the game... how do you explain that all of the "ones he couldn't save" are in control of the Reapers? It's Harbinger/Reapers using the most um... what's the word... distressing(?) thought to connect with him and further their indoctrination process.

Even if you don't believe he is part of the indoctrination throughout the game, on the crucible, it makes the most sense that he is part of that process.

I agree that attempting a stunt like this is a HUGE risk, but... what would stick with you more? An ending that gave you little closure and made almost no sense. Or an ending that made you seriously question everything, be angry, and think, followed by the reveal that it wasn't truly the end? 

I still believe it is a stunt. One that takes some serious risk and heartbreak. Do you think they like the way everyone is ripping the game apart? Something they put their souls into creating? They would not crush their fans like that, nor themselves. They're purposely staying hush-hush. Otherwise they would just come out and say, "That's it. As is."

This will end with a bang.

To be fair, the game is still new. There are still sales to be had and admitting that the customers are stuck with lackluster endings is not going to sell games, especially to people you will not recommend it to because of the endings. Damage will be done from silence entirely, but not nearly as much damage will be done as would be had they just come out and admitted this is all we are getting.

Exactly, if this were how they really and truly decided to end the series, with those endings as reality... They would effectively be flushing away future purchases and quite a fanbase. From a $ perspective, it makes no sense.

While this is true, there is so much news about the bad ending getting around, wouldn't it be for the best if they came out and said "Yes, there is a better ending?"

But they're getting all the publicity. Free of charge. Anyway, I'm not expecting a thing until sometime after the asian release. :[ 

Now time to catch up, I'm two pages behind!

[mooney6023]

Reaper of Reapers wrote...

LadyofRivendell wrote...

Just something I'd like to add that I noticed, sorry if it's been mentioned already (I missed 100+ pages from where I left off last night):

During the charge to the beam, I turned the camera around so I could see what was happening behind Shepard. About 10 feet behind Shep was my first squadmate (Kaidan, in my case), approx. 3 feet behind him was my second squadmate (Liara), and a good 20 feet behind them (and the last person in the charge) was Anderson.
With Anderson taking the rear by a good 30 feet from Shep, how the heck did he (1) Beat Shep to the beam, (2) Beat Shep to the center of the Citadel? (The latter has already been discussed). And if Anderson was able to make it, why didn't my squad make it, too? I analyzed every corpse on the ground during the slow-mo husk shooting portion, but all of them were identical (or nearly) Alliance soldiers.
Combined with the fact that Anderson looks (more or less) fine in the Citadel, yet Shep looks like she(he) got trampled by an angry rhino. Not that I know what angry rhino charge victims usually look like after an attack or anything.

Maybe because he was in the back he had a chance to dodge Harbinger's laser. He thought everyone was dead so he continued onward to the beam.

I think placement of your combat crew during the sprint to the beam and even anderson might be results of limitation of the combat engine versus intentional.  The crew and anderson are all on old fashioned auto-follow of the PC.

[Lugaidster]

mooney6023 wrote...

The whole god-reaper-brat is in his head. By choosing destruction the button is pushed.  Choose anything else and oops, welcome to the world of indoctrination or simply death by accumulated trauma and no boom-boom.

I agree with you on that, but even if an indoctrination attempt but not a dream then the whole scenes still did happen. That's why to me it's important to know where he woke up. I've been believing for the past 4 days that that's London. But when I just played it now with my headphones, the background noise doesn't fit with London. If that's true, then there still needs to be some refinement in our theory.

[CDHarrisUSF]

Lugaidster wrote...

Regardless of that, you'd still hear bombings or guns when he wakes up

Actually, the soundscape is eerily silent after you get up from Harbinger's laser blast. Go back and watch a video of it if you don't recall. I can't hear any other fighting going on in the vicinity... just you and the few enemies you shoot. The surroundings being silent when you wake up doesn't necessarily point in either direction, if that is the case.

Modifié par CDHarrisUSF, 13 mars 2012 - 06:19 .

[Urumashi]

Yet another addition to tag on here, as stated in the article on kotaku if you dont take every paragon conversation option with TIM you can't talk him into shooting himself right? Well here's the thing, the reviewer on kotaku was pissed because it was a renegade fast click option to stop TIM from shooting either you or illusive man and the renegade part made no sense because you were only trying to protect yourself and your friend. As evidenced with the blue/red light and the TIM/anderson thing with the choices the Reapers are capible of manipulating your moral reasoning, they made the defensive options appear as renegade or negative because they want you to bend to their will and accept defeat because its the "right" thing to do. The renegade options were not a mistake, they were intentional!

[N3vDawg]

twhunter wrote...

For those of you who may not have come across this yet take two minutes to read this. It has been getting a ton of attention and would make an incredible ending that would display all of your hard choices and give Shepard back a voice. Best part is that BioWare might actually go for it since they wouldn't be required to rewrite EVERYTHING. Could it use a few adjustments, sure...but as a jumping off point....YES PLEASE!! It seriously can pull at the heart strings and make you FEEL something again, other than disappointment. Don't just take my word for it read it yourself....

http://arkis.deviant...fset=0#/d4sllwt

someone even started a thread on here in support of it:
http://social.biowar...index/9833130/1

I came across another thread that is "on fire" with a very similar concept just not in the script format that Arkis wrote, it includes a poll:
http://social.biowar...72/polls/29101/

Lastly, for those who haven't joined up yet and want to support this "movement" join up at:
http://www.facebook....ngToMassEffect3

~Proud #retakemasseffect supporter

Please go away if you aren't gonna contribute to the actual thread topic.

[Joyceee]

Noob451 wrote...

Joyceee wrote...

Anybody know where we can get those cool 'Indoctrination Theory' signature banners?

I just saved the image, uploaded it to imageshack, and made it my signature, if you want the link to this thread in it, click the picture while you're editing your sig, and then click teh hyperlink button and paste the link for this thread into the textbox.

Awesome! Thanks for the great banner, Noob451!  Just thought I'd show some support. Keep up the awesomeness that's currently circulating this thread!

[Sl4sh3r]

Joyceee wrote...

Anybody know where we can get those cool 'Indoctrination Theory' signature banners?

All of the ME3 Ending sigs can be found

http://social.biowar...5/index/9786308

[G0thicRhino]

Annaka wrote...

G0thicRhino wrote...

ReclaimedHavoc wrote...

Ecmoose wrote...

Just want to point out something I just noticed.

I just started a 3rd play through and right after the child runs into the building it gets destroyed by a Reaper laser, this we've all seen.

Well the vent he's found in, is directly in line with the Reaper laser that hit the building. There is NO WAY he could have survived that blast. It blew out the windows and knocked the other vents from the ceiling. Even if he missed the actual blast the heat alone would have burnt him to a crisp. There is no way that kid is anything but a hallucination.

That's a great point...

Also someone noted that the vent has a "DANGER DIS VENT IS FREAKING ELECTRIFIED" sign near it, or something. More clues to suggest the child isn't alive. So it's possible that:

A) The kid is alive up until that point.

Or

Shep is already in the process of indoctrination from one of the earlier games. 

I think Shep has been in the process of indoctrination at least since Arrival. She was in the same room as Object Rho, which took her out with some weird pulses. She was kept in the Arrival medical facility for some time. Kept alive, mind you, when it would have been far easier to just kill her when she was out. Kenson and her crew definitely had a purpose for that.

I don't think the kid is ever alive. Nobody ever acknowledges him. He's a sole kid climbing aboard a shuttle in a military area, nobody helps him on the shuttle and nobody seems to be there to take care of him (no parents there or any other adults.). I'm pretty convinced that the kid is a figment of Shep's imagination, but whether he is so because she's indoctrinated, or if he just serves as a manifestation of everything she loses I'm not sure.

I'm of this same mindset myself. Just haven't sold myself on which it is. 

[balance5050]

My bad on the hasty "armor" isn't damaged post.

[Noob451]

something else, I don't recall seeing any reapers anywhere near the conduit when you get up from harbingers blast and begin limping towards the conduit.

[Joyceee]

xGhost4000x wrote...

Joyceee wrote...

Anybody know where we can get those cool 'Indoctrination Theory' signature banners?

http://img27.imagesh...octrination.jpg 

That is the image, you'd just have to link it to this thread. 

Sorry for the lame ass waste of a post, but really had to say thankyou for the link to the banner! Cheers! 

[Reaper of Reapers]

Fledgey wrote...

Reaper of Reapers wrote...

LadyofRivendell wrote...

Just something I'd like to add that I noticed, sorry if it's been mentioned already (I missed 100+ pages from where I left off last night):

During the charge to the beam, I turned the camera around so I could see what was happening behind Shepard. About 10 feet behind Shep was my first squadmate (Kaidan, in my case), approx. 3 feet behind him was my second squadmate (Liara), and a good 20 feet behind them (and the last person in the charge) was Anderson.
With Anderson taking the rear by a good 30 feet from Shep, how the heck did he (1) Beat Shep to the beam, (2) Beat Shep to the center of the Citadel? (The latter has already been discussed). And if Anderson was able to make it, why didn't my squad make it, too? I analyzed every corpse on the ground during the slow-mo husk shooting portion, but all of them were identical (or nearly) Alliance soldiers.
Combined with the fact that Anderson looks (more or less) fine in the Citadel, yet Shep looks like she(he) got trampled by an angry rhino. Not that I know what angry rhino charge victims usually look like after an attack or anything.

Maybe because he was in the back he had a chance to dodge Harbinger's laser. He thought everyone was dead so he continued onward to the beam.

He says "I came in behind you but ended up in a different place' or something to that effect. Please note there's no way shepard would know anderson made it and shep initiates the dialog. "Anderson, you there?" *long pause* "Yeah I made it in behind you" suspicious.

Wow. I never realized that. Of all the people why would Shepard pick Anderson? Over Liara (my LI) or any of my squadmates for that matter? Interesting.

Modifié par Reaper of Reapers, 13 mars 2012 - 06:19 .

[xDarkspace]

Noob451 wrote...

something else, I don't recall seeing any reapers anywhere near the conduit when you get up from harbingers blast and begin limping towards the conduit.

you see harbinger taking off and leaving

[timj2011]

does anybody have an enhanced image of shep waking up back on earth?

[Noob451]

xDarkspace wrote...

Noob451 wrote...

something else, I don't recall seeing any reapers anywhere near the conduit when you get up from harbingers blast and begin limping towards the conduit.

you see harbinger taking off and leaving

odd that he wouldn't make sure shepard, "the reaper killer" is dead, don't you think?

[bilwit]

Anyone wonder how Anderson says the beam took him somewhere eles but theres only one path to get there? Or why the illusive man somehow takes the same path? idk if this was posted already.

[Mini Jo]

Reaper of Reapers wrote...

Fledgey wrote...

He says "I came in behind you but ended up in a different place' or something to that effect. Please note there's no way shepard would know anderson made it and shep initiates the dialog. "Anderson, you there?" *long pause* "Yeah I made it in behind you" suspicious.

Wow. I never realized that. Of all the people why would Shepard pick Anderson? Over Liara (my LI) or any of my squadmates for that matter? Interesting.

No he doesn't, Anderson initiates the dialog not Shepard : http://www.youtube.c...xmJelhxg#t=101s

Modifié par Mini Jo, 13 mars 2012 - 06:21 .

[Auresta]

xDarkspace wrote...

Noob451 wrote...

something else, I don't recall seeing any reapers anywhere near the conduit when you get up from harbingers blast and begin limping towards the conduit.

you see harbinger taking off and leaving

I can confirm this.

[balance5050]

Urumashi wrote...

Yet another addition to tag on here, as stated in the article on kotaku if you dont take every paragon conversation option with TIM you can't talk him into shooting himself right? Well here's the thing, the reviewer on kotaku was pissed because it was a renegade fast click option to stop TIM from shooting either you or illusive man and the renegade part made no sense because you were only trying to protect yourself and your friend. As evidenced with the blue/red light and the TIM/anderson thing with the choices the Reapers are capible of manipulating your moral reasoning, they made the defensive options appear as renegade or negative because they want you to bend to their will and accept defeat because its the "right" thing to do. The renegade options were not a mistake, they were intentional!

That is true, another example of YOUR ACTIONS being viewed in a strange light, also, If you never actually shoot him, he gives you this wierd, dissapointed look, like he wanted you to shoot him.

[mooney6023]

Lugaidster wrote...

mooney6023 wrote...

The whole god-reaper-brat is in his head. By choosing destruction the button is pushed.  Choose anything else and oops, welcome to the world of indoctrination or simply death by accumulated trauma and no boom-boom.

I agree with you on that, but even if an indoctrination attempt but not a dream then the whole scenes still did happen. That's why to me it's important to know where he woke up. I've been believing for the past 4 days that that's London. But when I just played it now with my headphones, the background noise doesn't fit with London. If that's true, then there still needs to be some refinement in our theory.

To clarify, the god-reaper-brat is in his head but not his own fiction, it's the reaper(s) screwing with him IMHO.

What I wonder is whether the kid is an external artificial construct from the beginning.  This video showing the kid jumping up six stories at the the beginning of the game and how he is ignored by all except shephard (including Anderson) makes me wonder if he hasn't been an early canary in the coal mine for reaper or TIM attempts at manipulation.

Unfortunately, Bioware will have to be pretty explicit about whether the boy was TIM's tool or the reapers tool all along or if the kid's bizarre paranormal abilities at the beginning are simply editorial gaffs.

[msitton]

I have been following this thread since the beginning albeit silently, but I now fully agree with the ending being some form of indoctrination/hallucination.

Two points I am not convinced of though are the mirrored images and the "teleporting" god child in the start of the game.

Mirrored images are used to save assets all the time and while it could have been a deliberate choice, I feel this is one aspect that has simply been dragged into the rest of theory as this thread has gotten larger and larger.

As for the "teleporting" god child from the beginning of the game...I again can't help but feel this is something being dragged into theory as the thread grows. Granted I have not watched a video of it or gone back to do it myself but this happens in games all the time. Character assets are moved ahead to be pre-loaded; only when your character gets close enough does the sprite actually react to your character.

I am totally open to be proven wrong. Both of those points just seem flimsy is all

[Joyceee]

Sl4sh3r wrote...

Joyceee wrote...

Anybody know where we can get those cool 'Indoctrination Theory' signature banners?

All of the ME3 Ending sigs can be found

http://social.biowar...5/index/9786308

Wow, that's a great collection of banners you have there. Thanks for all that effort and the links. At least showing some support will be a little easier now. Thankyou!

[xDarkspace]