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Was the ending a hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory


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#6751
The Bridgeburner

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Reaper of Reapers wrote...

Wow. I never realized that. Of all the people why would Shepard pick Anderson? Over Liara (my LI) or any of my squadmates for that matter? Interesting.



TIM and Anderson represent two sides of the same coin, Renegade and Paragon... which makes sense when a battle of wills/morality is going on in Shep's mind. He sees the two strongest ideals of each.

#6752
AscendBaldur

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Reaper of Reapers wrote...

Fledgey wrote...

Reaper of Reapers wrote...

LadyofRivendell wrote...

Just something I'd like to add that I noticed, sorry if it's been mentioned already (I missed 100+ pages from where I left off last night):

During the charge to the beam, I turned the camera around so I could see what was happening behind Shepard. About 10 feet behind Shep was my first squadmate (Kaidan, in my case), approx. 3 feet behind him was my second squadmate (Liara), and a good 20 feet behind them (and the last person in the charge) was Anderson.
With Anderson taking the rear by a good 30 feet from Shep, how the heck did he (1) Beat Shep to the beam, (2) Beat Shep to the center of the Citadel? (The latter has already been discussed). And if Anderson was able to make it, why didn't my squad make it, too? I analyzed every corpse on the ground during the slow-mo husk shooting portion, but all of them were identical (or nearly) Alliance soldiers.
Combined with the fact that Anderson looks (more or less) fine in the Citadel, yet Shep looks like she(he) got trampled by an angry rhino. Not that I know what angry rhino charge victims usually look like after an attack or anything.


Maybe because he was in the back he had a chance to dodge Harbinger's laser. He thought everyone was dead so he continued onward to the beam.

He says "I came in behind you but ended up in a different place' or something to that effect. Please note there's no way shepard would know anderson made it and shep initiates the dialog. "Anderson, you there?" *long pause* "Yeah I made it in behind you" suspicious.


Wow. I never realized that. Of all the people why would Shepard pick Anderson? Over Liara (my LI) or any of my squadmates for that matter? Interesting.


Because Anderson is like a Father figure to Shep, and represents his concience telling him to stick to the plan to destroy the Reapers. Meanwhile TIM tries to convince you control is the right answer and since he's indoctrinated we know who really is telling you. And Synth was Saren's idea, but really that was Sovereign. Thus there is only one possible choice. Destroy. Avoid indoctrination. FOLLOW YOUR CONCIENCE SHEPHARDS!

#6753
Martukis

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I find it also curious that Anderson claims to have entered after you, come out somewhere else, but then proceeds to describe exactly what you see on the single path to the console. Either terribad writing or some breakage in reality/Anderson, methinks.

#6754
GreatBandit

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Rip504 wrote...

After beating the game twice. 2 completely different ways,I am now twice as disappointed.

I had just over 2000 in wars assets compared to over 5000.
I did none of the side mission. 1 or 2 to unlock primary missions. Compared to doing everything I could.

Paragon vs Renegade. Everyone loyal and alive vs 2 surviving crew members.

And Got the exact same endings???
BOOO


You shouldn't though, i did the same thing just I had low assets my first time through. It is the same ending but if you pick destroy both times, the one with low assets everyone is killed, the humans and everyone on earth is vaporised where as if you have high enough assets they live and you watch the reapers fall. and you see your squad get out of the normandy on some unnamed planet.

#6755
Noob451

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msitton wrote...

I have been following this thread since the beginning albeit silently, but I now fully agree with the ending being some form of indoctrination/hallucination.

Two points I am not convinced of though are the mirrored images and the "teleporting" god child in the start of the game.

Mirrored images are used to save assets all the time and while it could have been a deliberate choice, I feel this is one aspect that has simply been dragged into the rest of theory as this thread has gotten larger and larger.

As for the "teleporting" god child from the beginning of the game...I again can't help but feel this is something being dragged into theory as the thread grows. Granted I have not watched a video of it or gone back to do it myself but this happens in games all the time. Character assets are moved ahead to be pre-loaded; only when your character gets close enough does the sprite actually react to your character.

I am totally open to be proven wrong. Both of those points just seem flimsy is all :P


why would the kid be shown running into a building that is shortly destroyed then?  and then show up again later?

#6756
Reaper of Reapers

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Mini Jo wrote...

Reaper of Reapers wrote...

Fledgey wrote...

He says "I came in behind you but ended up in a different place' or something to that effect. Please note there's no way shepard would know anderson made it and shep initiates the dialog. "Anderson, you there?" *long pause* "Yeah I made it in behind you" suspicious.


Wow. I never realized that. Of all the people why would Shepard pick Anderson? Over Liara (my LI) or any of my squadmates for that matter? Interesting.


No he doesn't, Anderson initiates the dialog not Shepard : http://www.youtube.c...xmJelhxg#t=101s


Thanks for clearing that up Jo. Every new piece of info sends my brain into a frenzy lol.

#6757
Rip504

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bilwit wrote...

Anyone wonder how Anderson says the beam took him somewhere eles but theres only one path to get there? Or why the illusive man somehow takes the same path? idk if this was posted already.


The walls move and lead them to the same place.
Fact

#6758
Urumashi

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Mini Jo wrote...

Reaper of Reapers wrote...

Fledgey wrote...

He says "I came in behind you but ended up in a different place' or something to that effect. Please note there's no way shepard would know anderson made it and shep initiates the dialog. "Anderson, you there?" *long pause* "Yeah I made it in behind you" suspicious.


Wow. I never realized that. Of all the people why would Shepard pick Anderson? Over Liara (my LI) or any of my squadmates for that matter? Interesting.


No he doesn't, Anderson initiates the dialog not Shepard : http://www.youtube.c...xmJelhxg#t=101s


Also i noticed somethng really freaking obvious that it would appear everyone sorta just ignored....uhh, there's only one path to the console....how the heck did anderson get there?

#6759
ReclaimedHavoc

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Well guys, it's been fun, but I think I'm gonna head out and get some sleep.
Night all!

#6760
Noob451

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Urumashi wrote...

Mini Jo wrote...

Reaper of Reapers wrote...

Fledgey wrote...

He says "I came in behind you but ended up in a different place' or something to that effect. Please note there's no way shepard would know anderson made it and shep initiates the dialog. "Anderson, you there?" *long pause* "Yeah I made it in behind you" suspicious.


Wow. I never realized that. Of all the people why would Shepard pick Anderson? Over Liara (my LI) or any of my squadmates for that matter? Interesting.


No he doesn't, Anderson initiates the dialog not Shepard : http://www.youtube.c...xmJelhxg#t=101s


Also i noticed somethng really freaking obvious that it would appear everyone sorta just ignored....uhh, there's only one path to the console....how the heck did anderson get there?


anderson mentioned the walls moving and leading him there, i think.

#6761
balance5050

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Noob451 wrote...

msitton wrote...

I have been following this thread since the beginning albeit silently, but I now fully agree with the ending being some form of indoctrination/hallucination.

Two points I am not convinced of though are the mirrored images and the "teleporting" god child in the start of the game.

Mirrored images are used to save assets all the time and while it could have been a deliberate choice, I feel this is one aspect that has simply been dragged into the rest of theory as this thread has gotten larger and larger.

As for the "teleporting" god child from the beginning of the game...I again can't help but feel this is something being dragged into theory as the thread grows. Granted I have not watched a video of it or gone back to do it myself but this happens in games all the time. Character assets are moved ahead to be pre-loaded; only when your character gets close enough does the sprite actually react to your character.

I am totally open to be proven wrong. Both of those points just seem flimsy is all :P


why would the kid be shown running into a building that is shortly destroyed then?  and then show up again later?


I think this stuff was thrown in for people looking for it, you'de have to know something was up.

#6762
Lugaidster

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CDHarrisUSF wrote...

Lugaidster wrote...

Regardless of that, you'd still hear bombings or guns when he wakes up

Actually, the soundscape is eerily silent after you get up from Harbinger's laser blast. Go back and watch a video of it if you don't recall. I can't hear any other fighting going on in the vicinity... just you and the few enemies you shoot. The surroundings being silent when you wake up doesn't necessarily point in either direction, if that is the case.


The thing is that you still hear something in the London scene. Please go and listen to the background. To me it just doesn't fit with London. That's the thing. And that scene is a big clue to the real ending. I do believe in the indoctrination attempt, to me the kid signifies that, but the breathing scene is something we still need to analyze.

#6763
Vikali

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Lugaidster wrote...

CDHarrisUSF wrote...

Lugaidster wrote...

Regardless of that, you'd still hear bombings or guns when he wakes up

Actually, the soundscape is eerily silent after you get up from Harbinger's laser blast. Go back and watch a video of it if you don't recall. I can't hear any other fighting going on in the vicinity... just you and the few enemies you shoot. The surroundings being silent when you wake up doesn't necessarily point in either direction, if that is the case.


The thing is that you still hear something in the London scene. Please go and listen to the background. To me it just doesn't fit with London. That's the thing. And that scene is a big clue to the real ending. I do believe in the indoctrination attempt, to me the kid signifies that, but the breathing scene is something we still need to analyze.


But it's clear the Citadel is destroyed. Unless Shep got spaced again?

#6764
coruptai125

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I've been reading this thread for hours and I can't stop myself! Keep up the good work!

#6765
balance5050

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Noob451 wrote...

Urumashi wrote...

Mini Jo wrote...

Reaper of Reapers wrote...

Fledgey wrote...

He says "I came in behind you but ended up in a different place' or something to that effect. Please note there's no way shepard would know anderson made it and shep initiates the dialog. "Anderson, you there?" *long pause* "Yeah I made it in behind you" suspicious.


Wow. I never realized that. Of all the people why would Shepard pick Anderson? Over Liara (my LI) or any of my squadmates for that matter? Interesting.


No he doesn't, Anderson initiates the dialog not Shepard : http://www.youtube.c...xmJelhxg#t=101s


Also i noticed somethng really freaking obvious that it would appear everyone sorta just ignored....uhh, there's only one path to the console....how the heck did anderson get there?


anderson mentioned the walls moving and leading him there, i think.


It's in this gigantic space and your path is the only way to it though, not saying it's not possible for another path to retract or something, it just seemed awkward when it looked like the path was laid out for you alone.

Modifié par balance5050, 13 mars 2012 - 06:29 .


#6766
Noob451

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Lugaidster wrote...

CDHarrisUSF wrote...

Lugaidster wrote...

Regardless of that, you'd still hear bombings or guns when he wakes up

Actually, the soundscape is eerily silent after you get up from Harbinger's laser blast. Go back and watch a video of it if you don't recall. I can't hear any other fighting going on in the vicinity... just you and the few enemies you shoot. The surroundings being silent when you wake up doesn't necessarily point in either direction, if that is the case.


The thing is that you still hear something in the London scene. Please go and listen to the background. To me it just doesn't fit with London. That's the thing. And that scene is a big clue to the real ending. I do believe in the indoctrination attempt, to me the kid signifies that, but the breathing scene is something we still need to analyze.


it sounds very eerie, and i thought i heard the sound of metal being bent or something. (or at least some type of creaking noise)

Modifié par Noob451, 13 mars 2012 - 06:29 .


#6767
Tallis Lucienis

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You dont even know how hard it is to follow all of this...But it's so worth it

#6768
Urumashi

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Noob451 wrote...

Urumashi wrote...

Mini Jo wrote...

Reaper of Reapers wrote...

Fledgey wrote...

He says "I came in behind you but ended up in a different place' or something to that effect. Please note there's no way shepard would know anderson made it and shep initiates the dialog. "Anderson, you there?" *long pause* "Yeah I made it in behind you" suspicious.


Wow. I never realized that. Of all the people why would Shepard pick Anderson? Over Liara (my LI) or any of my squadmates for that matter? Interesting.


No he doesn't, Anderson initiates the dialog not Shepard : http://www.youtube.c...xmJelhxg#t=101s


Also i noticed somethng really freaking obvious that it would appear everyone sorta just ignored....uhh, there's only one path to the console....how the heck did anderson get there?


anderson mentioned the walls moving and leading him there, i think.


This is true, but even then, he says that only a few seconds before you open the door and there's no real evidence that there would have been enough of a shift for him to not only exit whatever room he was in, cross the hall and get all the way up to the control console before the path shifted again to get to you in the time it takes to open your door.

#6769
Ziguehart

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@Byne put this at the front page

#6770
BigBossBoo

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Lugaidster wrote...

CDHarrisUSF wrote...

Lugaidster wrote...

Regardless of that, you'd still hear bombings or guns when he wakes up

Actually, the soundscape is eerily silent after you get up from Harbinger's laser blast. Go back and watch a video of it if you don't recall. I can't hear any other fighting going on in the vicinity... just you and the few enemies you shoot. The surroundings being silent when you wake up doesn't necessarily point in either direction, if that is the case.


The thing is that you still hear something in the London scene. Please go and listen to the background. To me it just doesn't fit with London. That's the thing. And that scene is a big clue to the real ending. I do believe in the indoctrination attempt, to me the kid signifies that, but the breathing scene is something we still need to analyze.



I don't hear anything.  And whenever Shepard is knocked out momentarily or a loud noise made him temporarily deaf, as we have seen many times throughout the series, all sounds are mute or distorted/quieter.  So the sound may just be because Shepard was knocked out for awhile as he fought for his soul.

#6771
Noob451

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Urumashi wrote...

Noob451 wrote...

Urumashi wrote...

Mini Jo wrote...

Reaper of Reapers wrote...

Fledgey wrote...

He says "I came in behind you but ended up in a different place' or something to that effect. Please note there's no way shepard would know anderson made it and shep initiates the dialog. "Anderson, you there?" *long pause* "Yeah I made it in behind you" suspicious.


Wow. I never realized that. Of all the people why would Shepard pick Anderson? Over Liara (my LI) or any of my squadmates for that matter? Interesting.


No he doesn't, Anderson initiates the dialog not Shepard : http://www.youtube.c...xmJelhxg#t=101s


Also i noticed somethng really freaking obvious that it would appear everyone sorta just ignored....uhh, there's only one path to the console....how the heck did anderson get there?


anderson mentioned the walls moving and leading him there, i think.


This is true, but even then, he says that only a few seconds before you open the door and there's no real evidence that there would have been enough of a shift for him to not only exit whatever room he was in, cross the hall and get all the way up to the control console before the path shifted again to get to you in the time it takes to open your door.


yeah, I thought this too,  was just saying that it was mentioned that the walls moved.

#6772
Reaper of Reapers

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Auresta wrote...

xDarkspace wrote...

Noob451 wrote...

something else, I don't recall seeing any reapers anywhere near the conduit when you get up from harbingers blast and begin limping towards the conduit.


you see harbinger taking off and leaving


I can confirm this.


I found a video in which you can see Harbinger leave. It happens right in the beginning. At least I think that is Harbinger.

#6773
bilwit

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Never really got how the beam could be used to send massive amounts of people to the citadel when the beam is so small. Then when you get there it doesn't really seem that the place is set up to be creating new reapers :s and even If you look at the Citadel the city ares look intact. I would think that a reaper invasion would involve some explosions. Its all a lie :o

#6774
Elidor109

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KitePolaris wrote...

Lugaidster wrote...

CDHarrisUSF wrote...

Lugaidster wrote...

Regardless of that, you'd still hear bombings or guns when he wakes up

Actually, the soundscape is eerily silent after you get up from Harbinger's laser blast. Go back and watch a video of it if you don't recall. I can't hear any other fighting going on in the vicinity... just you and the few enemies you shoot. The surroundings being silent when you wake up doesn't necessarily point in either direction, if that is the case.


The thing is that you still hear something in the London scene. Please go and listen to the background. To me it just doesn't fit with London. That's the thing. And that scene is a big clue to the real ending. I do believe in the indoctrination attempt, to me the kid signifies that, but the breathing scene is something we still need to analyze.


But it's clear the Citadel is destroyed. Unless Shep got spaced again?


In one of the endings, synergy I think, you see the citadel closing up I believe.

#6775
Reptilian Rob

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If this is indeed the "true" ending and DLC follows up on this, we could be looking at the grandest space opera in the last thirty years.