57139 réponses à ce sujet

[Urumashi]

Noob451 wrote...

Urumashi wrote...

Noob451 wrote...

Urumashi wrote...

Mini Jo wrote...

Reaper of Reapers wrote...

Fledgey wrote...

He says "I came in behind you but ended up in a different place' or something to that effect. Please note there's no way shepard would know anderson made it and shep initiates the dialog. "Anderson, you there?" *long pause* "Yeah I made it in behind you" suspicious.

Wow. I never realized that. Of all the people why would Shepard pick Anderson? Over Liara (my LI) or any of my squadmates for that matter? Interesting.

No he doesn't, Anderson initiates the dialog not Shepard : http://www.youtube.c...xmJelhxg#t=101s

Also i noticed somethng really freaking obvious that it would appear everyone sorta just ignored....uhh, there's only one path to the console....how the heck did anderson get there?

anderson mentioned the walls moving and leading him there, i think.

This is true, but even then, he says that only a few seconds before you open the door and there's no real evidence that there would have been enough of a shift for him to not only exit whatever room he was in, cross the hall and get all the way up to the control console before the path shifted again to get to you in the time it takes to open your door.

yeah, I thought this too,  was just saying that it was mentioned that the walls moved.

Heck, now that i think about it, doenst anderson say "there's some kind of pannel" around when you're half way across the catwalk or so? If that was the case then when you were still at the top of the stairs he would have been somewhere in the area of the edge of the platform, how could shepard have not seen him or seen whatever path he took to get there?

[mooney6023]

One other potential theory that I personally don't like to think about, but may be true nonetheless.

Bioware has been tricky about how and by what means your companions survive in the past. Anderson telling you to pick your crew carefully and the fact that only your love interest and one other leaves with joker makes me wonder if they are the ONLY survivors from the crew.

The Love interest because they are the LI, unless Liara is alway in the vid, and one crew member from your team.

I wonder because it would not have been difficult to show all the crew, there is no voice script in that scene, so no significant production cost.

Modifié par mooney6023, 13 mars 2012 - 06:34 .

[IhateEA-Mask]

Noob451 wrote...

Urumashi wrote...

Noob451 wrote...

Urumashi wrote...

Mini Jo wrote...

Reaper of Reapers wrote...

Fledgey wrote...

He says "I came in behind you but ended up in a different place' or something to that effect. Please note there's no way shepard would know anderson made it and shep initiates the dialog. "Anderson, you there?" *long pause* "Yeah I made it in behind you" suspicious.

Wow. I never realized that. Of all the people why would Shepard pick Anderson? Over Liara (my LI) or any of my squadmates for that matter? Interesting.

No he doesn't, Anderson initiates the dialog not Shepard : http://www.youtube.c...xmJelhxg#t=101s

Also i noticed somethng really freaking obvious that it would appear everyone sorta just ignored....uhh, there's only one path to the console....how the heck did anderson get there?

anderson mentioned the walls moving and leading him there, i think.

This is true, but even then, he says that only a few seconds before you open the door and there's no real evidence that there would have been enough of a shift for him to not only exit whatever room he was in, cross the hall and get all the way up to the control console before the path shifted again to get to you in the time it takes to open your door.

yeah, I thought this too,  was just saying that it was mentioned that the walls moved.

Last time we heard walls moving was from logs of Cerberus scientists in Derelict reaper in ME 2. Same ones who had dreams now that I think of it .-. Of course, it might just be that Reaper conscructs can rearrange walls and not dreamers imagining that up and confusing it for reality.

[Omilophile]

balance5050 wrote...

WARNING SLIGHTLY OFFENSIVE
The few people that seem to like it (that I know personally) are chistian, or very linear thinkers, or they think that just cause the ending is similar to the matrix, it makes it good.

Interesting. Stereotyping at it's finest, but interesting. I am a Christian, and I loathed the ending. Christian =/= linear thinker. There are many who are and many who aren't. Just like everyone else. I suppose every Muslim is a terrorist, too, from your way of thinking. From this post of yours, you have proven yourself to be very closed-minded and a very linear thinker.

[Beanreaper]

KitePolaris wrote...

Lugaidster wrote...

CDHarrisUSF wrote...

Lugaidster wrote...

Regardless of that, you'd still hear bombings or guns when he wakes up

Actually, the soundscape is eerily silent after you get up from Harbinger's laser blast. Go back and watch a video of it if you don't recall. I can't hear any other fighting going on in the vicinity... just you and the few enemies you shoot. The surroundings being silent when you wake up doesn't necessarily point in either direction, if that is the case.

The thing is that you still hear something in the London scene. Please go and listen to the background. To me it just doesn't fit with London. That's the thing. And that scene is a big clue to the real ending. I do believe in the indoctrination attempt, to me the kid signifies that, but the breathing scene is something we still need to analyze.

But it's clear the Citadel is destroyed. Unless Shep got spaced again?

No the point is it was all a hallucination so Shep never physically made it to the Citidel and never physically talked to Anderson and never physically blew up the reapers.

[The Bridgeburner]

msitton wrote...

I have been following this thread since the beginning albeit silently, but I now fully agree with the ending being some form of indoctrination/hallucination.

Two points I am not convinced of though are the mirrored images and the "teleporting" god child in the start of the game.

Mirrored images are used to save assets all the time and while it could have been a deliberate choice, I feel this is one aspect that has simply been dragged into the rest of theory as this thread has gotten larger and larger.

As for the "teleporting" god child from the beginning of the game...I again can't help but feel this is something being dragged into theory as the thread grows. Granted I have not watched a video of it or gone back to do it myself but this happens in games all the time. Character assets are moved ahead to be pre-loaded; only when your character gets close enough does the sprite actually react to your character.

I am totally open to be proven wrong. Both of those points just seem flimsy is all

The mirrored images (I'm assuming you mean 1M1) make sense if you consider that the Citadel at that time, seems largely to be cobbled from previous settings in Shep's past... Citadel proper w/ the Keepers, discarded bodies like the Collector ship, the chasm which looks similar to the Shadow Broker ship, entry to the deck that seems similar to the Cerberus base. Also, the oily shadows not unlike Shep's dreams, or the Rachni descriptions of indoctrination. Combined with the reverse Paragon/Renegade stances of Anderson and TIM... it does point to that whole segment being "something". Whether that's Indoc or NDE, who knows.

The child seems like an indoctrination plant from the start - or at least that's how I see it. There was a great post a few pages ago that summed it up rather well... If the godchild is shown at the end then how does the catalyst know to use that image unless it's been there all along, ergo, it's an indoc plant. The post explained it rather well. 

[xDarkspace]

Reaper of Reapers wrote...

Auresta wrote...

xDarkspace wrote...

Noob451 wrote...

something else, I don't recall seeing any reapers anywhere near the conduit when you get up from harbingers blast and begin limping towards the conduit.

you see harbinger taking off and leaving

I can confirm this.

I found a video in which you can see Harbinger leave. It happens right in the beginning. At least I think that is Harbinger.

it is harbinger eye glow yellow/orange in the front

[keith123456789]

im sad about the endign

[Doctor Quinn]

Perhaps I am wrong, but the only invocation I have seen regarding Occam's Razor was my own in response to the voice issue with Harbinger and the Star Child. If anyone is attempting to use the razor with regards to the Mass Effect story, it won't work. However, it can be invoked with arguments, especially when there are multiple explanations for why a voice might exist in a particular scene.

Oh I'll agree there. But there is plenty from the game series as a whole to support shep being indoctrinated.

We know from Saren's experience and from the Cerberus crew in the dead reaper, that indoctrination of the subtle variety takes form of mental disturbance. The subject is haunted by nightmares. They suffer from escalating levels of hallucinations. All of which is used by the reapers to reduce the victim to more easily managed behaviors so that they are suggestible to their whims. Throughout the game Shepherd does indeed have repeating nightmares, does seem to suffer headache pain when awaking from them, and their message is that he can't win. No matter what he and the boy are doomed. The Reaper's use that boys image in the catalyst, but where did it come from? Can the Reapers read our thoughts? Or do they know what the boy means to Shepherd, because they created the context with which Shepherd knows him. On a sidenote the art book nonsense is a red herring. They aren't going to put, "hey this kid is the star child with a magic crucible that turns everyone into synthoids so watch him closely, k," in a promotional art book. It sort of destroys the surprise at the end.

The cutscenes also go out of their way to demonstrate that Shepherd is the only witness to this boy's existence through acknowledgement. This is a common tactic in ghost movies to create uncertainty about whether the person exists in our mortal plane or not (sixth sense comes to mind). Though we see the boy run into the shuttle, he has trouble climbing the edge and no one helps him. As he enters not one of the adults even shift to make room. Not even a shudder. Like he were but a mist of himself. Given the level of detail in these opening cut scenes I don't think this is an oversight. Rather a purposeful subtle layer to create doubt. Just like all those scenes in the sixth sense where Bruce Willis is trying to talk to his wife and seemingly she shuts him out and walks right by. I could go on but I think you get my point. I've never read the mass effect books so I can't reference from them. My own thinking comes strictly what we've learned on the matter from the game series.

[Lugaidster]

BigBossBoo wrote...

Lugaidster wrote...

CDHarrisUSF wrote...

Lugaidster wrote...

Regardless of that, you'd still hear bombings or guns when he wakes up

Actually, the soundscape is eerily silent after you get up from Harbinger's laser blast. Go back and watch a video of it if you don't recall. I can't hear any other fighting going on in the vicinity... just you and the few enemies you shoot. The surroundings being silent when you wake up doesn't necessarily point in either direction, if that is the case.

The thing is that you still hear something in the London scene. Please go and listen to the background. To me it just doesn't fit with London. That's the thing. And that scene is a big clue to the real ending. I do believe in the indoctrination attempt, to me the kid signifies that, but the breathing scene is something we still need to analyze.

I don't hear anything.  And whenever Shepard is knocked out momentarily or a loud noise made him temporarily deaf, as we have seen many times throughout the series, all sounds are mute or distorted/quieter.  So the sound may just be because Shepard was knocked out for awhile as he fought for his soul.

http://www.youtube.c...WqlsQjWo#t=270s

There you have it. You clearly hear something. Metal creaking and loose wires.

[Reptilian Rob]

Omilophile wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

WARNING SLIGHTLY OFFENSIVE
The few people that seem to like it (that I know personally) are chistian, or very linear thinkers, or they think that just cause the ending is similar to the matrix, it makes it good.

Interesting. Stereotyping at it's finest, but interesting. I am a Christian, and I loathed the ending. Christian =/= linear thinker. There are many who are and many who aren't. Just like everyone else. I suppose every Muslim is a terrorist, too, from your way of thinking. From this post of yours, you have proven yourself to be very closed-minded and a very linear thinker.

Oh the irnoy, eh?

Calls others close minded, then insults other's viewpoints. Wat?

Modifié par Reptilian Rob, 13 mars 2012 - 06:37 .

[kent80082006]

how about an image of the allegedly dangerous electrified vent that kid was in, and can someone pls update the OP? Some much has been added since

[Vikali]

Elidor109 wrote...

KitePolaris wrote...

Lugaidster wrote...

CDHarrisUSF wrote...

Lugaidster wrote...

Regardless of that, you'd still hear bombings or guns when he wakes up

Actually, the soundscape is eerily silent after you get up from Harbinger's laser blast. Go back and watch a video of it if you don't recall. I can't hear any other fighting going on in the vicinity... just you and the few enemies you shoot. The surroundings being silent when you wake up doesn't necessarily point in either direction, if that is the case.

The thing is that you still hear something in the London scene. Please go and listen to the background. To me it just doesn't fit with London. That's the thing. And that scene is a big clue to the real ending. I do believe in the indoctrination attempt, to me the kid signifies that, but the breathing scene is something we still need to analyze.

But it's clear the Citadel is destroyed. Unless Shep got spaced again?

In one of the endings, synergy I think, you see the citadel closing up I believe.

It's Control and Shepard does not survive in Control. He/She disintegrates.

[S1at3]

I'm not going to read through the near 900 pages but my first thought during the ending was hallucination and/or indoctrination.  First was the interior of the Citadel appearing eerily similar to the interior of the collector base.  Then when you cross that "chasm" it seemed just like the inside of the Shadow Broker's ship (same design as the engine's in the SB's ship which were powered by an ongoing storm, the citadel does not appeared to be powered by an ongoing storm) and crossing into the control room reminded me of TIM's "lair" right off the bat.  It seemed like Shephard was piecing it all together based on his known memories kind of like when entering the Geth server.  Just my two cents.

[xDarkspace]

Lugaidster wrote...

BigBossBoo wrote...

Lugaidster wrote...

CDHarrisUSF wrote...

Lugaidster wrote...

Regardless of that, you'd still hear bombings or guns when he wakes up

Actually, the soundscape is eerily silent after you get up from Harbinger's laser blast. Go back and watch a video of it if you don't recall. I can't hear any other fighting going on in the vicinity... just you and the few enemies you shoot. The surroundings being silent when you wake up doesn't necessarily point in either direction, if that is the case.

The thing is that you still hear something in the London scene. Please go and listen to the background. To me it just doesn't fit with London. That's the thing. And that scene is a big clue to the real ending. I do believe in the indoctrination attempt, to me the kid signifies that, but the breathing scene is something we still need to analyze.

I don't hear anything.  And whenever Shepard is knocked out momentarily or a loud noise made him temporarily deaf, as we have seen many times throughout the series, all sounds are mute or distorted/quieter.  So the sound may just be because Shepard was knocked out for awhile as he fought for his soul.

http://www.youtube.c...WqlsQjWo#t=270s

There you have it. You clearly hear something. Metal creaking and loose wires.

its earth you can hear wind and mabye buildings falling apart in background making metal sound?.

[KelaSaar]

Can I just say how much I love this idea? After I finished playing ME3, I was so dissapointed with the lackluster ending that I didn't want to play any of the games again. Then I found the thread on this theory and it made so much sense. It really helped me get over my dissapointment and get back to a place where I could really enjoy the games. Even if nothing ends up coming from it, it's at least a really fun thing to think about. I haven't done so much clue scanning and theorizing since Lost

[BlackDragonBane]

 

Going to analyze somethings that have been brought up before, but bear repeating.

0:40 - you hear, I'm assuming, Coates over the comm channel go 'God... they're all gone.'

0:46 - you hear the following conversation:
- Female voice: Did we get anyone to the beam?
- Coates; Negative. Our entire force was decimated

Now, if this was reality, Coates would have seen Shepard get up from where they had fallen and approaching the beam. Such is not the case. The comm link just goes silent from that point.

at about 1:00, Shepard picks up the magic infinte god pistol



If you look behind you, the ENTIRE background is blurred beyond recognition and much of the area you JUST passed through appears to be missing. There is also the two dead trees that were not there during the mad dash approach to the Conduit.

2:31 - You hear Anderson over the comm link, yet if Coates is correct and the team is wiped out, how is Anderson contacting Shepard?

2:55 - When asked if he is up in the Citadel as well, Anderson says he followed Shepard up, yet we did not see him ANYWHERE on the battlefield. Plus, he says 'we' distinctly, meaning others made it on the Citadel, yet we don't see them and they supposedly were dropped off somewhere else by the Conduit.

3:30 - Shepard picks up ANOTER infite god-pistol. What happened to the one he/she just had? If you noticed before, the first pistol is mysteriously gone.

4:56 - The movine panels bear a striking resemblence to the engine system on the Shadow Broker's ship. This may be just level design but if you look on either side, it goes as far as you can see and you see no other avenues of reaching the console room.

6:00 - Somehow, Anderson beats Shepard to the console room despite there being no other paths and not seeing Anderson either behind or in front of you until this point.

6:13 - The Huskified Illusive Man is suddenly right behind you and there was no indication he was even ON the Citadel. You also begin to hear whispers as he talks and the oily black shadows appear on the edges of the screen. You will also hear a Reaper like deep trilling noise accompanying this.

8:15 - TIM forces Shepard to shoot Anderson. Jump to 8:22 and pay VERY CLOSE attention to where Anderson has their hand.



Notice where Shepard's arm is and the fact that she is suddenly bleeding profusely when she wasn't moments prior to shooting Anderson? Look again when Shepard is outside the Citadel and talking to Catalyst.



Notice the blood on her arm is suddenly gone?

There are WAY too many inconsistences in just the scene leading up to meeting Catalyst for it not to be anything more than an indoctrinated halluciation. There's is symbolism in the conversaiton with Anderson and TIM, missing envrionments and added elements that weren't there before. There is too much 'wrong' with this whole sequence for it to be oversight on Bioware developers. SOMETHING is going on here beyond what we've seen.

[The Bridgeburner]

S1at3 wrote...

I'm not going to read through the near 900 pages but my first thought during the ending was hallucination and/or indoctrination.  First was the interior of the Citadel appearing eerily similar to the interior of the collector base.  Then when you cross that "chasm" it seemed just like the inside of the Shadow Broker's ship (same design as the engine's in the SB's ship which were powered by an ongoing storm, the citadel does not appeared to be powered by an ongoing storm) and crossing into the control room reminded me of TIM's "lair" right off the bat.  It seemed like Shephard was piecing it all together based on his known memories kind of like when entering the Geth server.  Just my two cents.

Exactly! Like it was a composite of various locations his subconcious drew upon.

[msitton]

balance5050 wrote...

Noob451 wrote...

msitton wrote...

I have been following this thread since the beginning albeit silently, but I now fully agree with the ending being some form of indoctrination/hallucination.

Two points I am not convinced of though are the mirrored images and the "teleporting" god child in the start of the game.

Mirrored images are used to save assets all the time and while it could have been a deliberate choice, I feel this is one aspect that has simply been dragged into the rest of theory as this thread has gotten larger and larger.

As for the "teleporting" god child from the beginning of the game...I again can't help but feel this is something being dragged into theory as the thread grows. Granted I have not watched a video of it or gone back to do it myself but this happens in games all the time. Character assets are moved ahead to be pre-loaded; only when your character gets close enough does the sprite actually react to your character.

I am totally open to be proven wrong. Both of those points just seem flimsy is all

why would the kid be shown running into a building that is shortly destroyed then?  and then show up again later?

I think this stuff was thrown in for people looking for it, you'de have to know something was up.

I get those points, but my gut still tells me they are too circumstantial. Maybe it's just the skeptic in me "assuming control." Overall though, the rest of this indoctrination theory is spot on. This has to be what the ending really meant. However, if it wasn't Bioware should run with it and fix what they can. Otherwise I will be very disappointed.

[WvStolzing]

[snip]

Modifié par WvStolzing, 13 mars 2012 - 06:41 .

[balance5050]

Reptilian Rob wrote...

Omilophile wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

WARNING SLIGHTLY OFFENSIVE
The few people that seem to like it (that I know personally) are chistian, or very linear thinkers, or they think that just cause the ending is similar to the matrix, it makes it good.

Interesting. Stereotyping at it's finest, but interesting. I am a Christian, and I loathed the ending. Christian =/= linear thinker. There are many who are and many who aren't. Just like everyone else. I suppose every Muslim is a terrorist, too, from your way of thinking. From this post of yours, you have proven yourself to be very closed-minded and a very linear thinker.

Oh the irnoy, eh?

Calls others close minded, then insults other's viewpoints. Wat?

Just my friends which are christian, didn't say every christian. 

[Urumashi]

[quote]IhateEA-Mask wrote...

[quote]Noob451 wrote...

[/quote]

yeah, I thought this too,  was just saying that it was mentioned that the walls moved.

[/quote]

Last time we heard walls moving was from logs of Cerberus scientists in Derelict reaper in ME 2. Same ones who had dreams now that I think of it .-. Of course, it might just be that Reaper conscructs can rearrange walls and not dreamers imagining that up and confusing it for reality.

[/quote]

Wait wait wait, something just occured to me, it seems like anderson seems to stumble across every scene just before shep does, and shep always sees that exact same scene moments later, is it possible that the reapers are impersonating anderson's voice and "building" the world almost inception style so that the scene will make sense to shepard and he wont question the surroundings? like the 1M1 signs which appear as early as the catwalk down the stairs? As legion says, he had to build the consensus to a familiar form so shep could comprehend it, is it possible the reapers (also synthetic) are doing the exact same thing?

[mooney6023]

xDarkspace wrote...

Lugaidster wrote...

BigBossBoo wrote...

Lugaidster wrote...

CDHarrisUSF wrote...

Lugaidster wrote...

Regardless of that, you'd still hear bombings or guns when he wakes up

Actually, the soundscape is eerily silent after you get up from Harbinger's laser blast. Go back and watch a video of it if you don't recall. I can't hear any other fighting going on in the vicinity... just you and the few enemies you shoot. The surroundings being silent when you wake up doesn't necessarily point in either direction, if that is the case.

The thing is that you still hear something in the London scene. Please go and listen to the background. To me it just doesn't fit with London. That's the thing. And that scene is a big clue to the real ending. I do believe in the indoctrination attempt, to me the kid signifies that, but the breathing scene is something we still need to analyze.

I don't hear anything.  And whenever Shepard is knocked out momentarily or a loud noise made him temporarily deaf, as we have seen many times throughout the series, all sounds are mute or distorted/quieter.  So the sound may just be because Shepard was knocked out for awhile as he fought for his soul.

http://www.youtube.c...WqlsQjWo#t=270s

There you have it. You clearly hear something. Metal creaking and loose wires.

its earth you can hear wind and mabye buildings falling apart in background making metal sound?.

Or a pressurized atmosphere in a space station (citadel) escaping into vacuum, and the structure collapsing.  Hard to tell.

Modifié par mooney6023, 13 mars 2012 - 06:40 .

[blooregard]

hmm did anybody notice the "buzzing" reaper noise while the illusive man was talking to shepard anderson and shepard both wince in pain from the sound

[Omilophile]

CDHarrisUSF wrote...

Actually, the soundscape is eerily silent after you get up from Harbinger's laser blast.

I would imagine that's because his ear drums were blown out. Due to the same reason why his armor is torn to shreds and he's bleeding heavily. A blast of that intensity would creat a rapid expansion of air, thus bursting his ear drums.

Modifié par Omilophile, 13 mars 2012 - 06:41 .