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Modifié par Elidor109, 13 mars 2012 - 07:08 .
Urumashi wrote...
Good god if any of this is true (which at this point....good lord, if it isnt this is one hell of a coincidence) they must have been planning this for years.
TheMadBlimper wrote...
This could all be leading up to Bioware making the single greatest marketing scheme in the history of gaming. That sounds more like Bioware than a shoddy put together ending like the one we have now.
KillerQuag wrote...
So, if it was a hallucination how do you wave away the box at the end of all 3 of the endings that says, "Shephard is now a legend by defeating the Reaver forces. Keep on playing DLC or side missions!"
edit: All 3 ending(s) have the exact same box.
Guest_BringBackNihlus_*
BlackDragonBane wrote...
Going to analyze somethings that have been brought up before, but bear repeating.
0:40 - you hear, I'm assuming, Coates over the comm channel go 'God... they're all gone.'
0:46 - you hear the following conversation:
- Female voice: Did we get anyone to the beam?
- Coates; Negative. Our entire force was decimated
Now, if this was reality, Coates would have seen Shepard get up from where they had fallen and approaching the beam. Such is not the case. The comm link just goes silent from that point.
at about 1:00, Shepard picks up the magic infinte god pistol
If you look behind you, the ENTIRE background is blurred beyond recognition and much of the area you JUST passed through appears to be missing. There is also the two dead trees that were not there during the mad dash approach to the Conduit.
2:31 - You hear Anderson over the comm link, yet if Coates is correct and the team is wiped out, how is Anderson contacting Shepard?
2:55 - When asked if he is up in the Citadel as well, Anderson says he followed Shepard up, yet we did not see him ANYWHERE on the battlefield. Plus, he says 'we' distinctly, meaning others made it on the Citadel, yet we don't see them and they supposedly were dropped off somewhere else by the Conduit.
3:30 - Shepard picks up ANOTER infite god-pistol. What happened to the one he/she just had? If you noticed before, the first pistol is mysteriously gone.
4:56 - The movine panels bear a striking resemblence to the engine system on the Shadow Broker's ship. This may be just level design but if you look on either side, it goes as far as you can see and you see no other avenues of reaching the console room.
6:00 - Somehow, Anderson beats Shepard to the console room despite there being no other paths and not seeing Anderson either behind or in front of you until this point.
6:13 - The Huskified Illusive Man is suddenly right behind you and there was no indication he was even ON the Citadel. You also begin to hear whispers as he talks and the oily black shadows appear on the edges of the screen. You will also hear a Reaper like deep trilling noise accompanying this.
8:15 - TIM forces Shepard to shoot Anderson. Jump to 8:22 and pay VERY CLOSE attention to where Anderson has their hand.
Notice where Shepard's arm is and the fact that she is suddenly bleeding profusely when she wasn't moments prior to shooting Anderson? Look again when Shepard is outside the Citadel and talking to Catalyst.
Notice the blood on her arm is suddenly gone?
There are WAY too many inconsistences in just the scene leading up to meeting Catalyst for it not to be anything more than an indoctrinated halluciation. There's is symbolism in the conversaiton with Anderson and TIM, missing envrionments and added elements that weren't there before. There is too much 'wrong' with this whole sequence for it to be oversight on Bioware developers. SOMETHING is going on here beyond what we've seen.
His ears are still working and only slightly muffled. You can hear Harbinger take off. You can hear the couple of husks you shoot. You can hear a few lines through the radio. You just don't hear any sounds of combat whatsoever, which is the part I found to be odd, because one would expect guns and explosions to make a bit more noise than a husk.Omilophile wrote...
I would imagine that's because his ear drums were blown out. Due to the same reason why his armor is torn to shreds and he's bleeding heavily. A blast of that intensity would creat a rapid expansion of air, thus bursting his ear drums.
Modifié par CDHarrisUSF, 13 mars 2012 - 07:07 .
balance5050 wrote...
I genuinly apologize if I hurt you in some way, I rescind what I said and if you tell me what page it's on I willedit it out completley.
again I apologize.
Elidor109 wrote...
As a side note people, if you use your Gibbed's Mass Effect 3 save editor...there are three end game states.
1. Not finished
2. Out in a blaze of glory
3. Lived to fight again
I did the destroy option which gives you the 'special' alive scene. I have "Lived to fight again"
So obviously something happens after the vanilla games ending. Why would they have this otherwise?
Outlaw704 wrote...
Wouldn't you think they'd mask the whispering to make shepard think this is the real thing? Shep knows a thing or two about indoctrination, so they'd need to make the experience seem as authetnic as possible, it seems to be a rather finesse/subtle tatic other then straight out dominating his mind.Raxxman wrote...
Doctor Quinn wrote...
Perhaps I am wrong, but the only invocation I have seen regarding Occam's Razor was my own in response to the voice issue with Harbinger and the Star Child. If anyone is attempting to use the razor with regards to the Mass Effect story, it won't work. However, it can be invoked with arguments, especially when there are multiple explanations for why a voice might exist in a particular scene.
Oh I'll agree there. But there is plenty from the game series as a whole to support shep being indoctrinated.
We know from Saren's experience and from the Cerberus crew in the dead reaper, that indoctrination of the subtle variety takes form of mental disturbance. The subject is haunted by nightmares. They suffer from escalating levels of hallucinations. All of which is used by the reapers to reduce the victim to more easily managed behaviors so that they are suggestible to their whims. Throughout the game Shepherd does indeed have repeating nightmares, does seem to suffer headache pain when awaking from them, and their message is that he can't win. No matter what he and the boy are doomed. The Reaper's use that boys image in the catalyst, but where did it come from? Can the Reapers read our thoughts? Or do they know what the boy means to Shepherd, because they created the context with which Shepherd knows him. On a sidenote the art book nonsense is a red herring. They aren't going to put, "hey this kid is the star child with a magic crucible that turns everyone into synthoids so watch him closely, k," in a promotional art book. It sort of destroys the surprise at the end.
The cutscenes also go out of their way to demonstrate that Shepherd is the only witness to this boy's existence through acknowledgement. This is a common tactic in ghost movies to create uncertainty about whether the person exists in our mortal plane or not (sixth sense comes to mind). Though we see the boy run into the shuttle, he has trouble climbing the edge and no one helps him. As he enters not one of the adults even shift to make room. Not even a shudder. Like he were but a mist of himself. Given the level of detail in these opening cut scenes I don't think this is an oversight. Rather a purposeful subtle layer to create doubt. Just like all those scenes in the sixth sense where Bruce Willis is trying to talk to his wife and seemingly she shuts him out and walks right by. I could go on but I think you get my point. I've never read the mass effect books so I can't reference from them. My own thinking comes strictly what we've learned on the matter from the game series.
The biggest issue is the lack of whispers in anything bar the 2 dream sequences.
voices is a major major part of indoctrination in all other examples. Shepard hears voices in the dream sequences but they're not really talking like you'd expet a reaper to.
You never really get a feeling of 'they' or 'him' which is key to the discriptions in ME1, ME2 (derlict reaper) and Ascension, as well as the comic about TIM's origin.
Noob451 wrote...
Elidor109 wrote...
As a side note people, if you use your Gibbed's Mass Effect 3 save editor...there are three end game states.
1. Not finished
2. Out in a blaze of glory
3. Lived to fight again
I did the destroy option which gives you the 'special' alive scene. I have "Lived to fight again"
So obviously something happens after the vanilla games ending. Why would they have this otherwise?
this needs to be on the OP
Elidor109 wrote...
Noob451 wrote...
Elidor109 wrote...
As a side note people, if you use your Gibbed's Mass Effect 3 save editor...there are three end game states.
1. Not finished
2. Out in a blaze of glory
3. Lived to fight again
I did the destroy option which gives you the 'special' alive scene. I have "Lived to fight again"
So obviously something happens after the vanilla games ending. Why would they have this otherwise?
this needs to be on the OP
I mentioned it before in another thread, didn't get much attention lol.
Exactly. This could be the ballsiest and best thing to ever happen to gaming. It would elevate game storytelling to an entirely new level.matchboxmatt wrote...
Seriously, reading this thread has completely made my idea of the ending take a complete 180. That is seriously one of the most ingenious endings to a videogame series ever. It's bizarre.
That's like taking games to a whole new level of art. To know I was indoctrinated is probably the best thing that has ever happened to me.
KillerQuag wrote...
So, if it was a hallucination how do you wave away the box at the end of all 3 of the endings that says, "Shephard is now a legend by defeating the Reaver forces. Keep on playing DLC or side missions!"
edit: All 3 ending(s) have the exact same box.
voices is a major major part of indoctrination in all other examples. Shepard hears voices in the dream sequences but they're not really talking like you'd expet a reaper to.
You never really get a feeling of 'they' or 'him' which is key to the discriptions in ME1, ME2 (derlict reaper) and Ascension, as well as the comic about TIM's origin.
The Bridgeburner wrote...
Urumashi wrote...
Good god if any of this is true (which at this point....good lord, if it isnt this is one hell of a coincidence) they must have been planning this for years.
I've criticized BioWare's writing in the past, but this, if everything plays out how it looks... this will go down as one of the best videogame stories ever written. The guts it takes to (almost) alienate a fanbase in service of a plot-twist... heh, that's some brass balls.
If they are storytellers as they claim, they'd at least have a ME bible to follow, an end destination - even if all the pieces are unformed, there would be an end goal. I hope this is their "end goal". It would be bloody brilliant.
Modifié par Joyceee, 13 mars 2012 - 07:13 .
Auresta wrote...
Elidor109 wrote...
Noob451 wrote...
Elidor109 wrote...
As a side note people, if you use your Gibbed's Mass Effect 3 save editor...there are three end game states.
1. Not finished
2. Out in a blaze of glory
3. Lived to fight again
I did the destroy option which gives you the 'special' alive scene. I have "Lived to fight again"
So obviously something happens after the vanilla games ending. Why would they have this otherwise?
this needs to be on the OP
I mentioned it before in another thread, didn't get much attention lol.
When you say they, do you mean Gibbed or the developers? I'm not familiar with Gibbed beyond that it edits saves.. does it only name values based on the game's scripting or whatever?
TheMadBlimper wrote...
This could all be leading up to Bioware making the single greatest marketing scheme in the history of gaming. That sounds more like Bioware than a shoddy put together ending like the one we have now.
Modifié par msitton, 13 mars 2012 - 07:14 .
Joyceee wrote...
The Bridgeburner wrote...
Urumashi wrote...
Good god if any of this is true (which at this point....good lord, if it isnt this is one hell of a coincidence) they must have been planning this for years.
I've criticized BioWare's writing in the past, but this, if everything plays out how it looks... this will go down as one of the best videogame stories ever written. The guts it takes to (almost) alienate a fanbase in service of a plot-twist... heh, that's some brass balls.
If they are storytellers as they claim, they'd at least have a ME bible to follow, an end destination - even if all the pieces are unformed, there would be an end goal. I hope this is their "end goal". It would be bloody brilliant.
So true. If this is all correct, then you really have to give them credit for such a gutsy move. It's bloody damn ingenius for them to come up with something like this, considering the HUGE risk of alienating a very dedicated fanbase.
Anybody feel like saying, "You have a quad, Bioware"? Haha~
While I agree, I'm not sure EA would be too happy about the negativity being generated lol, which is one thing I could come up with as to why this theory wouldn't make sense.The Bridgeburner wrote...
Urumashi wrote...
Good god if any of this is true (which at this point....good lord, if it isnt this is one hell of a coincidence) they must have been planning this for years.
I've criticized BioWare's writing in the past, but this, if everything plays out how it looks... this will go down as one of the best videogame stories ever written. The guts it takes to (almost) alienate a fanbase in service of a plot-twist... heh, that's some brass balls.
If they are storytellers as they claim, they'd at least have a ME bible to follow, an end destination - even if all the pieces are unformed, there would be an end goal. I hope this is their "end goal". It would be bloody brilliant.
The Bridgeburner wrote...
Urumashi wrote...
Good god if any of this is true (which at this point....good lord, if it isnt this is one hell of a coincidence) they must have been planning this for years.
I've criticized BioWare's writing in the past, but this, if everything plays out how it looks... this will go down as one of the best videogame stories ever written. The guts it takes to (almost) alienate a fanbase in service of a plot-twist... heh, that's some brass balls.
If they are storytellers as they claim, they'd at least have a ME bible to follow, an end destination - even if all the pieces are unformed, there would be an end goal. I hope this is their "end goal". It would be bloody brilliant.
Modifié par Urumashi, 13 mars 2012 - 07:19 .
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