57139 réponses à ce sujet

[FugitiveMind]

The turning into a husk bit is a tad irrelevant though, as per this line of thinking, all of the "endings" are only occuring in Shepard's mind anyhow.

The entire Anderson saying it reminded him of shepard's description of the collector ship, the blue column called the conduit, the familiar platform...

Everything after the laser was a conglomeration of things Shepard already experienced pulled together to create the illusion of somewhere new. That sounds like mind domination to me. Of course the citadel looks familiar but not, it's constructed out of what Shepard thinks it might be looking like by the hallucination....

Wow, I hope that made sense to someone else, it does to me but some things get lost when trying to type it out.

It's like trying to discuss the end of the 2nd Matrix movie all over again...

[lavosslayer]

They are totally "Pulling a Revan" on us all right now...Casey Hudson you sly person you!

[thePredator50]

I am now convinced there's more to the end than meets the eye. We'll have to wait and see what it is. Bioware has to make a statement at some point. The game just came out, and most people who plan on buying it haven't done so yet. Even out of those who did, only a handful finished it. They sure as hell want a bigger sample size before they drop anything on us.

If this ends up being true, I will commend Bioware for being the balsiest studio ever. I will also condemn EA for requiring me to shelve out $10 for the real DLC ending.

[RussianOrc]

have anyone already seen this new game+ ending?

[AvianCat]

I also have to tack on the irony of the last two conversation choices being about taking away hope and choice.

[Yuzna75]

If it was all indoctrination why didn't the VI react towards you but freaked out when Leng arrived? This might have been answered already, but thread is getting bloated. I like this theory in general, but I still think bioware screwed up and we are giving them away to fix it. There are just as many hints to the child just being the image of those shepard couldn't save, and that the force controlling the reapers just chose to appear as that form. I really hope you guys are right, but I am not convinced yet. Still a lot of holes that need stuffing.

[Kitten Tactics]

Mr Massakka wrote...

As much as your theory is plausible, I think it's just a dream-thought.
I agree with every each of your points, but why would they do that? Why would BioWare force such a inconvenience throughout the fans? It makes sense from our point of view, but what about theirs?

What better way to prevent the real ending from leaking that by providing a false one?

[omgBAMF]

Just played the final part again and chose destroy (first time for me). Listening to the kid... he REALLY doesn't want you to choose destroy. He makes you feel guilty by saying you will destroy the geth, and he adds "even you are partly synthetic." This shouldn't matter to him because the other options end in Shepard's demise anyway. The fact you can still live after destroying them makes the kid's claim false.

Another thing... control and synthesis do not require any input from the player other than walking. Destroy actually makes you shoot the gun... you have to will yourself to do it (fighting the reaper control in a way).

Very interesting......


ASLO: how in the hell are you walking and talking OUTSIDE the citadel... in open space?

Modifié par omgBAMF, 11 mars 2012 - 01:47 .

[krystalevenstar]

Something else interesting I noticed is that as a paragon, you can convince TIM to shoot himself like you did with Saren in the original game to fight his indoctrination. It's like Shepard's mind is repeating something it already knows to be valid. Drawing on something already in Shepard's psyche.

[lookingglassmind]

A post from another thread:

Kloborgg711 wrote...

The problem with the indoctrination theory is multifold. I definitely understand the kind of forced positive thinking that makes people want to think it's true, but it's really a pretty flawed one. First of all, when does the "indoctrination" begin?

Is it all a dream starting when Shepard wakes up and his squad suddenly disappeared along with Harbinger, and yet Anderson made it inside? Most convincingly, this would explain why Shepard awakens in a pile of dark rubble when he supposedly got caught in a space explosion. This would clear up the confusion associated with the whole scenario, and yet that would entail that the entire scene with Anderson and TIM are just figments of imagination, which seems incredibly unlikely. So no, I think we have to accept that Bioware just didn't feel like telling us what actually happened to our squadmates, and instead insinuate the Harbinger just ran away after injuring Shepard a little. Too bad, but I can't see another way.

Next, there's the theory that Shepard is only unconscious after Hackett tells him to activate the thing. This is also appealing for a number of reasons. It sets up the 3 buttons as the "path to indoctrination" and makes sense of why in the hell Shepard sees the Catalyst as that annoying little brat. But then, it doesn't make sense. What DOES happen after Hackett asks Shepard for assistance? How does Shepard somehow miraculously wake up in rubble?

Also, if the whole sequence involves a dream sequence, why the "epilogue" in the form of Grandpa A-Hole Starwatcher? Why the text about Shepard becoming a legend.. if it's all in his mind?

And really, how stupid would Bioware have to be to do this? I know a lot of people are excited and think this would be an awesome idea, but that's because we're desperate for some kind of happy ending. In reality, how much a slap in the face would it be for Bioware to troll its entire fan base like this? How much of a jerk move would it be to actually keep the real ending secret in a later-released DLC?

No, I think this theory is the result of trying to piece together various plot holes, and the fact that it actually makes more sense than taking it seriously is nothing more then a testament to how bad and inconclusive this ending really was.

[k8ee]

The kicker is... if non of that last part is real, then the choices indoctrinated Shep is being offered are not even real. Sure, synthesize is a great concept, but is it too good to be true? Is harby offering this option to Shep so that he/she dies thinking they are saving the galaxy from the reapers forever?

Shep proves peace is possible between organic and synthetic. The game always talks about how the diversity in the galaxy makes them stronger. Synthesis is a choice that seems too unreal. Thus control and synth = indoctrination, because both are so tempting and harby gets what he wants, which is Shep to stop fighting and for the reapers to continue to exist.

Destroying the reapers is the only way. Who is to say EDI and the geth would even die? We don't really know. Those last scenes... of the normandy and the crash? Just Shep dreaming the consequences of her/his actions.

Edit: and agreed, seeing Shep huskified is only a metaphor, since none of that stuff is actually happening, remember?

Modifié par k8ee, 11 mars 2012 - 01:50 .

[NoUserNameHere]

Animositisomina wrote...

k8ee wrote...

Kitten Tactics wrote...

lookingglassmind wrote...

Kitten Tactics wrote...

RussianOrc wrote...I've also noticed by watching the ending that the destroy option is the only one wich shepard don't look like a husk before his death.anyone saw that?

What? Can someone elaborate?  I only did Destroy.

In Synthesis and Control, Shepard's skin turns black and she/he begins to take the appearance of a husk.  This could be a metaphor for falling under Reaper control.

HOLY you're right. How did that not register with me???

The only problem with this theory is that you need "dragon's teeth" to convert people into husks.

Cerberus seems to have done it with simple pods.

[What?]

I liked the idea, but...how does Bioware go back on that? Where does the hallucination end? It would definitely have to encompass all that space magic, like the synthesis of all life,..so then maybe when you're waking from the rubble. Then what? You get up, dust off, walk in to the beam and go to the Catalyst, the Citadel for real and press a button? That'd be silly. I don't think the hallucination concept could possibly play out seamlessly...the DLC would have to interrupt at some earlier point -- where, I've no clue.

[FugitiveMind]

thePredator50 wrote...

I am now convinced there's more to the end than meets the eye. We'll have to wait and see what it is. Bioware has to make a statement at some point. The game just came out, and most people who plan on buying it haven't done so yet. Even out of those who did, only a handful finished it. They sure as hell want a bigger sample size before they drop anything on us.

If this ends up being true, I will commend Bioware for being the balsiest studio ever. I will also condemn EA for requiring me to shelve out $10 for the real DLC ending.

I will commend them right up until they try and sell me the ending to a game I've already purchased...

[Kitten Tactics]

Yuzna75 wrote...

If it was all indoctrination why didn't the VI react towards you but freaked out when Leng arrived? This might have been answered already, but thread is getting bloated. I like this theory in general, but I still think bioware screwed up and we are giving them away to fix it. There are just as many hints to the child just being the image of those shepard couldn't save, and that the force controlling the reapers just chose to appear as that form. I really hope you guys are right, but I am not convinced yet. Still a lot of holes that need stuffing.

It could be as simple as Shepard NOT being fully indoctrinated.  Not yet.  

We're working to stuff the holes, give us time

[krystalevenstar]

FugitiveMind wrote...

The turning into a husk bit is a tad irrelevant though, as per this line of thinking, all of the "endings" are only occuring in Shepard's mind anyhow.

The entire Anderson saying it reminded him of shepard's description of the collector ship, the blue column called the conduit, the familiar platform...

Everything after the laser was a conglomeration of things Shepard already experienced pulled together to create the illusion of somewhere new. That sounds like mind domination to me. Of course the citadel looks familiar but not, it's constructed out of what Shepard thinks it might be looking like by the hallucination....

Wow, I hope that made sense to someone else, it does to me but some things get lost when trying to type it out.

It's like trying to discuss the end of the 2nd Matrix movie all over again...

This fits with what I just said about TIM possibly dying in the exact same way as Saren did, fighting his indoctrination in ME1

[thePredator50]

Yuzna75 wrote...

If it was all indoctrination why didn't the VI react towards you but freaked out when Leng arrived? This might have been answered already, but thread is getting bloated. I like this theory in general, but I still think bioware screwed up and we are giving them away to fix it. There are just as many hints to the child just being the image of those shepard couldn't save, and that the force controlling the reapers just chose to appear as that form. I really hope you guys are right, but I am not convinced yet. Still a lot of holes that need stuffing.

The Prothean VI saying that he doesn't sense indoctrination in Shepard is the biggest wrench in this theory.

[lookingglassmind]

Yuzna75 wrote...

If it was all indoctrination why didn't the VI react towards you but freaked out when Leng arrived?

A good question. This is why I don't think Shepard was indoctrinated. The dreams of the child were attempts at indoctrination that Shepard resisted. The final part with the Catalyst is Harbinger trying like crazy to indoctrinate; it's up to you whether or not it succeeds.

[mupp3tz]

There kind of HAS to be more the ending at this point. Like some of us have already said before, what's the point of DLC if this is the actual ending? (Why would I need a new squad member, mission, weapons, etc.?) And, WHY even bother showing us Shepard take another breath after the Destroy ending. There's no point in the scene, unless it's meant to suggest a future of some sort.

[AvianCat]

omgBAMF wrote...

Just played the final part again and chose destroy (first time for me). Listening to the kid... he REALLY doesn't want you to choose destroy. He makes you feel guilty by saying you will destroy the geth, and he adds "even you are partly synthetic." This shouldn't matter to him because the other options end in Shepard's demise anyway. The fact you can still live after destroying them makes the kid's claim false.

Another thing... control and synthesis do not require any input from the player other than walking. Destroy actually makes you shoot the gun... you have to will yourself to do it (fighting the reaper control in a way).

Very interesting......


ASLO: how in the hell are you walking and talking OUTSIDE the citadel... in open space?

Control requires you too press the A button (or whatever else for PS3 ans PC players) but Destroy does require the most input.

[Stalker]

Kitten Tactics wrote...

Mr Massakka wrote...

As much as your theory is plausible, I think it's just a dream-thought.
I agree with every each of your points, but why would they do that? Why would BioWare force such a inconvenience throughout the fans? It makes sense from our point of view, but what about theirs?

What better way to prevent the real ending from leaking that by providing a false one?

... with this ending, and the resulting hate on ME3 throughout the net, is it worth the reputation that they have sacrificed... the amount of customers they lost because of that?
 It just doesn't make sense to me.

[MPSai]

Yuzna75 wrote...

If it was all indoctrination why didn't the VI react towards you but freaked out when Leng arrived? This might have been answered already, but thread is getting bloated. I like this theory in general, but I still think bioware screwed up and we are giving them away to fix it. There are just as many hints to the child just being the image of those shepard couldn't save, and that the force controlling the reapers just chose to appear as that form. I really hope you guys are right, but I am not convinced yet. Still a lot of holes that need stuffing.

Shepard wasn't actually indoctrinated at that point, the dreams with the kid were part of the process starting. Or something. 

I think seeing the kid in the vent probably wasn't a hallucination, as fun as that part is. But if you believe the dreams are evidence  of the beginnings of indoctrination and the ending is the Reapers trying to finish it so Shepard will not only allow them to survive but hasten or even complete their plan for them it works. 

[SaltyWaffles-PD]

KingNothing125 wrote...

I also hope so.

In fact, if they release a DLC where Shep wakes up after being shot by Harbinger, and miraculously he and his squad are OK, and you go up to the citadel for a real ending without some Space God Child, I will rejoice and gladly pay money for it.

Same. I mean, I'd hate to have to pay to get an ending that isn't so mind-numbingly bad (both in terms of my experience and in terms of making sense and being well executed), and I'd still have serious issues with BioWare in the future, but I would be able to love the ME series again (and play it).

[AvianCat]

thePredator50 wrote...

Yuzna75 wrote...

If it was all indoctrination why didn't the VI react towards you but freaked out when Leng arrived? This might have been answered already, but thread is getting bloated. I like this theory in general, but I still think bioware screwed up and we are giving them away to fix it. There are just as many hints to the child just being the image of those shepard couldn't save, and that the force controlling the reapers just chose to appear as that form. I really hope you guys are right, but I am not convinced yet. Still a lot of holes that need stuffing.

The Prothean VI saying that he doesn't sense indoctrination in Shepard is the biggest wrench in this theory.

Well it could be that Leng has actual Reaper tech in him or that Shepard is only indoctrinated in the slightest, with the child be the indoctrinations form.

[humes spork]

Mr Massakka wrote...

Why would BioWare force such a inconvenience throughout the fans?

ME3 was the most eagerly-anticipated game in years, and one of the more insecure projects during development since...what? Half Life 2? The script leak, the beta leak, the pirated Russian retail copy that hit bittorrent, the inevitable leaks from the space edition...the game project was about as secure and tight-lipped as a Thai cathouse.

Plus, you have the push to avert the resale market through online passes, and curb piracy. EA and BW both incentivize online passes through periodic free content releases for pass-holders. BW and EA both have been oddly quiet about Alliance Network, especially considering how strongly BW touted Cerberus Network and EA touted that and the BF VIP pass system.

So, put a fake-out ending in the retail release and withhold the real ending in the form of free DLC through Alliance Network. It's a bird multikill with one stone.