57139 réponses à ce sujet

[Urumashi]

Catreina-JTV wrote...

I wanted to bring something up that I have not seen in the 150+ pages of this massive thread I have read. It is more evidence pointing towards the indoctrination theory that I personally have embraced fully:

When you are about to make your choice, notice that going towards Control you never move faster - in fact, you get weaker as evidenced by you FALLING DOWN when trying to actually connect to the control interface. Nevermind the GC smirking, the context, or the conversation - you fall down, weaker for the choice.

Now look at what happens when you choose Destroy - you stop limping, you get your resolve back, the GC disappears the INSTANT that the Destroy device shields/barrier is penetrated (the third or fourth bullet if I recall) - you practically run to the thing, stronger for the choice.

When in the world does this happen? Getting weaker from making one choice, or stronger from making another? Let me refresh your memories - Saren does this exactly when he kills himself. TIM does this exactly when he kills himself.

Just something I have yet to see in this thread (admittedly I have only read 60% of the posts or so)

You are absolutely right and this is precisely what i was getting at a second ago

[Elidor109]

kent80082006 wrote...

Can someone pls explain what this is/ what it means?

http://imageshack.us...8/66456249.png/

That was my picture reffering to an earlier post.

It is a picture of Gibbed's ME3 save editor. The dailog box I have open shows the different variables which are added on to your save after you finish the game. Those being:

1. Lived to fight again

and

2. Out in a blaze of glory.

You have to click the small image to zoom in more.

[BadlyBrowned]

LadyofRivendell wrote...

Catreina-JTV wrote...

I wanted to bring something up that I have not seen in the 150+ pages of this massive thread I have read. It is more evidence pointing towards the indoctrination theory that I personally have embraced fully:

When you are about to make your choice, notice that going towards Control you never move faster - in fact, you get weaker as evidenced by you FALLING DOWN when trying to actually connect to the control interface. Nevermind the GC smirking, the context, or the conversation - you fall down, weaker for the choice.

Now look at what happens when you choose Destroy - you stop limping, you get your resolve back, the GC disappears the INSTANT that the Destroy device shields/barrier is penetrated (the third or fourth bullet if I recall) - you practically run to the thing, stronger for the choice.

When in the world does this happen? Getting weaker from making one choice, or stronger from making another? Let me refresh your memories - Saren does this exactly when he kills himself. TIM does this exactly when he kills himself.

Just something I have yet to see in this thread (admittedly I have only read 60% of the posts or so)

Wow, great point. I never really connected this in my mind, but recalling the two endings I chose, you're right. And i have yet to see this point made, but I haven't read the entire thread either.

No, Shepard appears to gain resolve in all 3 choices. 

Control - Shepards fights through pain

Synthesis - Shepard start jogging then goes full sprint before jump into beam

Destroy - Shepard gets more deliberate with each shot fired.


However, the point about RGC dissapearing quickly in Destory has been mentioned. 

Modifié par BadlyBrowned, 13 mars 2012 - 07:46 .

[MasterMenace]

Catreina-JTV wrote...

I wanted to bring something up that I have not seen in the 150+ pages of this massive thread I have read. It is more evidence pointing towards the indoctrination theory that I personally have embraced fully:

When you are about to make your choice, notice that going towards Control you never move faster - in fact, you get weaker as evidenced by you FALLING DOWN when trying to actually connect to the control interface. Nevermind the GC smirking, the context, or the conversation - you fall down, weaker for the choice.

Now look at what happens when you choose Destroy - you stop limping, you get your resolve back, the GC disappears the INSTANT that the Destroy device shields/barrier is penetrated (the third or fourth bullet if I recall) - you practically run to the thing, stronger for the choice.

When in the world does this happen? Getting weaker from making one choice, or stronger from making another? Let me refresh your memories - Saren does this exactly when he kills himself. TIM does this exactly when he kills himself.

Just something I have yet to see in this thread (admittedly I have only read 60% of the posts or so)

Just one fabalous observation!

Someone reallly needs to make a compendium of all the things that support the theory. A simple list detailing everything that supports it.

I would downright stay up straight 12 hrs reading AGAIN each page and typing a word doc. out but I'm trying to study for 2 exams before this Friday!!

Can someone else do this?

[Lambchopz]

Auresta wrote...

Catreina-JTV wrote...

I wanted to bring something up that I have not seen in the 150+ pages of this massive thread I have read. It is more evidence pointing towards the indoctrination theory that I personally have embraced fully:

When you are about to make your choice, notice that going towards Control you never move faster - in fact, you get weaker as evidenced by you FALLING DOWN when trying to actually connect to the control interface. Nevermind the GC smirking, the context, or the conversation - you fall down, weaker for the choice.

Now look at what happens when you choose Destroy - you stop limping, you get your resolve back, the GC disappears the INSTANT that the Destroy device shields/barrier is penetrated (the third or fourth bullet if I recall) - you practically run to the thing, stronger for the choice.

When in the world does this happen? Getting weaker from making one choice, or stronger from making another? Let me refresh your memories - Saren does this exactly when he kills himself. TIM does this exactly when he kills himself.

Just something I have yet to see in this thread (admittedly I have only read 60% of the posts or so)

Someone just said this on this page and I don't think it's strong evidence. If you've seen control and synthesis, you'd know what I mean. 

SYNTHESIS: HE RUNS. AS IF HE WAS NEVER HURT.
CONTROL: HE FIGHTS AGAINST THE PAIN TO GET A HOLD OF THE CONTROLS.

Resolve is in all endings.

edit: I believe you are citing only slightly nuanced differences. Again, in all endings Shepard acts with great resolve and energy.

Yeah. At this point this thread has analyzed every possible proof for this theory. If it is true, then it makes plenty of sense. If not, and BioWare decides to wing it, well, here you go. Free material.

People are REALLY starting to stretch though. Maybe some us are getting TOO into this.

[Auresta]

Urumashi wrote...

Catreina-JTV wrote...

I wanted to bring something up that I have not seen in the 150+ pages of this massive thread I have read. It is more evidence pointing towards the indoctrination theory that I personally have embraced fully:

When you are about to make your choice, notice that going towards Control you never move faster - in fact, you get weaker as evidenced by you FALLING DOWN when trying to actually connect to the control interface. Nevermind the GC smirking, the context, or the conversation - you fall down, weaker for the choice.

Now look at what happens when you choose Destroy - you stop limping, you get your resolve back, the GC disappears the INSTANT that the Destroy device shields/barrier is penetrated (the third or fourth bullet if I recall) - you practically run to the thing, stronger for the choice.

When in the world does this happen? Getting weaker from making one choice, or stronger from making another? Let me refresh your memories - Saren does this exactly when he kills himself. TIM does this exactly when he kills himself.

Just something I have yet to see in this thread (admittedly I have only read 60% of the posts or so)

You are absolutely right and this is precisely what i was getting at a second ago

Addressed this in the previous thread. Shepard gains strength and resolve in ALL endings. Synthesis, he breaks into a great run as if he was never hurt or near-dying. Control, he struggles but you see his great resolve and strength against the pain. 

[Tygur]

This is great, I can't stop reading. Some evidence seems solid and some sketchy. I never suspected it was any sort of dream or indoctrination at the ending, though I had thought about it during normal gameplay in ME2 and ME3 before the end. Hes just around reaper stuff SO MUCH. And in the end I was thinking about the 3 options and none really made sense, so I said to myself, I'm here to stop the Reapers, not to be fed new information from some freaky strange mind-reading VI god thing, so I stepped right up and did the destroy option on the first shot. I had somewhere over 6000 readiness (and a 100% from multiplayer just to make sure) so I got the living Shep end first try. Wasn't impressed at all to say the least and checked youtube etc for the other endings. After seeing them all I was infuriated, but after this thread I believe I can actually play the game again. Seems promising, would love to hear them announce something soon.

[WarChicken78]

I love this thread. It gives me hope.

Also, when you coose the destroy option, could you hear Zaeed in the back of your head?
"Shoot the damn tuuuubes!"

[Hedera]

Auresta wrote...

Catreina-JTV wrote...

I wanted to bring something up that I have not seen in the 150+ pages of this massive thread I have read. It is more evidence pointing towards the indoctrination theory that I personally have embraced fully:

When you are about to make your choice, notice that going towards Control you never move faster - in fact, you get weaker as evidenced by you FALLING DOWN when trying to actually connect to the control interface. Nevermind the GC smirking, the context, or the conversation - you fall down, weaker for the choice.

Now look at what happens when you choose Destroy - you stop limping, you get your resolve back, the GC disappears the INSTANT that the Destroy device shields/barrier is penetrated (the third or fourth bullet if I recall) - you practically run to the thing, stronger for the choice.

When in the world does this happen? Getting weaker from making one choice, or stronger from making another? Let me refresh your memories - Saren does this exactly when he kills himself. TIM does this exactly when he kills himself.

Just something I have yet to see in this thread (admittedly I have only read 60% of the posts or so)

Someone just said this on this page and I don't think it's strong evidence. If you've seen control and synthesis, you'd know what I mean. 

SYNTHESIS: HE RUNS. AS IF HE WAS NEVER HURT.
CONTROL: HE FIGHTS AGAINST THE PAIN TO GET A HOLD OF THE CONTROLS.

Resolve is in all endings.

edit: I believe you are citing only slightly nuanced differences. Again, in all endings Shepard acts with great resolve and energy.

In control, he soes the limpy thing, as the Reapers slowly eat his will.
In Synthesis, he runs, because the Reapers want that ending.  The GC's entire frakking speech talks about how that is the 'right' choice.  Most of my friends who beat it chose that because it seemed the Paragon choice, and think I was crazy for going with destroy.

I AM NOT CRAZY.

[Dessalines]

I am going through a second time paying attention to things that don't fit or fit this theory.
1)Harbringer is said to be leading the attack on Earth, but he is no where to be seen om the game. There is never I assuming the control over this fight.
2)The kid is inside a room that gets hit with a laser, but he somehow survives the blast
3) IM appears already becoming transformed when he talk to shep on Mars. Not on his holovid, but when you first see him. Look at his cheeks.
4)He says, "YThat is the difference between you and me. You choose to destroy the reapers, and I choose the control reapers."
5)When you talk to the doctor, she gives you an examine.She states you have a bunch of implants all over your body, She is suprise how your implants have some sort of protein that allowed them to be easily asorbed, Shep states that it most because of the surgery I had to remove my scaring, and the doctor states it must be.
6)I don't know when Indoctrination codex appears for the first time, but I noticed it when I got to the Citadel.with the wounded person from Mars.

[Ravax]

Catreina-JTV wrote...

I wanted to bring something up that I have not seen in the 150+ pages of this massive thread I have read. It is more evidence pointing towards the indoctrination theory that I personally have embraced fully:

When you are about to make your choice, notice that going towards Control you never move faster - in fact, you get weaker as evidenced by you FALLING DOWN when trying to actually connect to the control interface. Nevermind the GC smirking, the context, or the conversation - you fall down, weaker for the choice.

Now look at what happens when you choose Destroy - you stop limping, you get your resolve back, the GC disappears the INSTANT that the Destroy device shields/barrier is penetrated (the third or fourth bullet if I recall) - you practically run to the thing, stronger for the choice.

When in the world does this happen? Getting weaker from making one choice, or stronger from making another? Let me refresh your memories - Saren does this exactly when he kills himself. TIM does this exactly when he kills himself.

Just something I have yet to see in this thread (admittedly I have only read 60% of the posts or so)

Yep, but if you support the indoc/halu theory, TIM doesn kill himself as he is a figment of Shep's imagination, crammed in there by Harbinger...

[mooney6023]

BadlyBrowned wrote...

LadyofRivendell wrote...

Catreina-JTV wrote...

I wanted to bring something up that I have not seen in the 150+ pages of this massive thread I have read. It is more evidence pointing towards the indoctrination theory that I personally have embraced fully:

When you are about to make your choice, notice that going towards Control you never move faster - in fact, you get weaker as evidenced by you FALLING DOWN when trying to actually connect to the control interface. Nevermind the GC smirking, the context, or the conversation - you fall down, weaker for the choice.

Now look at what happens when you choose Destroy - you stop limping, you get your resolve back, the GC disappears the INSTANT that the Destroy device shields/barrier is penetrated (the third or fourth bullet if I recall) - you practically run to the thing, stronger for the choice.

When in the world does this happen? Getting weaker from making one choice, or stronger from making another? Let me refresh your memories - Saren does this exactly when he kills himself. TIM does this exactly when he kills himself.

Just something I have yet to see in this thread (admittedly I have only read 60% of the posts or so)

Wow, great point. I never really connected this in my mind, but recalling the two endings I chose, you're right. And i have yet to see this point made, but I haven't read the entire thread either.

No, Shepard appears to gain resolve in all 3 choices. 

Resolve maybe, but it seems that in destruction he starts feeling better while as in control he fights through the pain.  Subjective observation admittedly, but it's nonetheless an arguable point that it's varies mildly.

Note, I haven't tried the transhuman one, just haven't gotten around to it.

Modifié par mooney6023, 13 mars 2012 - 07:47 .

[kent80082006]

Let me try to post the pic here



*EDIT obviouslt I failed, but everyone pls look at Elidor109's pic here if you missed it, it's solid proof
http://imageshack.us...8/66456249.png/

Modifié par kent80082006, 13 mars 2012 - 07:51 .

[Urumashi]

Lambchopz wrote...

Auresta wrote...

Catreina-JTV wrote...

I wanted to bring something up that I have not seen in the 150+ pages of this massive thread I have read. It is more evidence pointing towards the indoctrination theory that I personally have embraced fully:

When you are about to make your choice, notice that going towards Control you never move faster - in fact, you get weaker as evidenced by you FALLING DOWN when trying to actually connect to the control interface. Nevermind the GC smirking, the context, or the conversation - you fall down, weaker for the choice.

Now look at what happens when you choose Destroy - you stop limping, you get your resolve back, the GC disappears the INSTANT that the Destroy device shields/barrier is penetrated (the third or fourth bullet if I recall) - you practically run to the thing, stronger for the choice.

When in the world does this happen? Getting weaker from making one choice, or stronger from making another? Let me refresh your memories - Saren does this exactly when he kills himself. TIM does this exactly when he kills himself.

Just something I have yet to see in this thread (admittedly I have only read 60% of the posts or so)

Someone just said this on this page and I don't think it's strong evidence. If you've seen control and synthesis, you'd know what I mean. 

SYNTHESIS: HE RUNS. AS IF HE WAS NEVER HURT.
CONTROL: HE FIGHTS AGAINST THE PAIN TO GET A HOLD OF THE CONTROLS.

Resolve is in all endings.

edit: I believe you are citing only slightly nuanced differences. Again, in all endings Shepard acts with great resolve and energy.

Yeah. At this point this thread has analyzed every possible proof for this theory. If it is true, then it makes plenty of sense. If not, and BioWare decides to wing it, well, here you go. Free material.

People are REALLY starting to stretch though. Maybe some us are getting TOO into this.

It is only when we are become so enamored in this that we begin to accuse each other of being reapers, that we have gone too far.

[The Bridgeburner]

WarChicken78 wrote...

I love this thread. It gives me hope.

Also, when you coose the destroy option, could you hear Zaeed in the back of your head?
"Shoot the damn tuuuubes!"

"Go out like a big goddamn hero!"

[Elidor109]

cubie_hole7 wrote...

Elidor109 wrote...

Didn't seem to work properly, click this and zoom in for Gibbed's view.

http://imageshack.us...8/66456249.png/

For those that can't read/see the image.  It shows were a 'finished' game save file has three categorizations:

1. Not finished
2. Out in a blaze of glory
3. Lived to fight again   <<<<<=======

It's rather telling that there is such a designation for a final game.  Seems like all that would be needed for the new game+ is either a 'not finished' or 'finished' designation.  Of course, if dlc is going to finish the ending, the dlc needs to know how the indoctrination went.  Good find.

Yeah, I think it's pretty daming evidence.

[Omilophile]

Lambchopz wrote...

Yeah. At this point this thread has analyzed every possible proof for this theory. If it is true, then it makes plenty of sense. If not, and BioWare decides to wing it, well, here you go. Free material.

People are REALLY starting to stretch though. Maybe some us are getting TOO into this.

I have stated this several times. No one listened.

[Auresta]

My advice to EVERYONE is this:

When you find evidence, find counter evidence and present both sides. It is not enough to say that Shepard gains strength in Destroy. He does, but he also does so in Control and Synthesis. It is not enough to say that the presence of trees on the run down are straight from the dream and thus must mean he is dreaming/hallucinating/indoctrinated. It could be simple oversight AND the presence of ****ed up trees is always in devastated areas.

Presenting both sides reminds us to keep things in perspective and strengthen our argument. I'm tired of seeing people post "evidence" without presenting the other side to look at. If you don't, people bandwagon on the evidence without ever considering the counterargument.

Someone presents the counterargument, it just gets buried.

[JediNg]

Catreina-JTV wrote...

I wanted to bring something up that I have not seen in the 150+ pages of this massive thread I have read. It is more evidence pointing towards the indoctrination theory that I personally have embraced fully:

When you are about to make your choice, notice that going towards Control you never move faster - in fact, you get weaker as evidenced by you FALLING DOWN when trying to actually connect to the control interface. Nevermind the GC smirking, the context, or the conversation - you fall down, weaker for the choice.

Now look at what happens when you choose Destroy - you stop limping, you get your resolve back, the GC disappears the INSTANT that the Destroy device shields/barrier is penetrated (the third or fourth bullet if I recall) - you practically run to the thing, stronger for the choice.

When in the world does this happen? Getting weaker from making one choice, or stronger from making another? Let me refresh your memories - Saren does this exactly when he kills himself. TIM does this exactly when he kills himself.

Just something I have yet to see in this thread (admittedly I have only read 60% of the posts or so)

To be completely fair, the synthesis choice has you going into a full sprint, so I wouldn't take that too too seriously lol.

Modifié par JediNg, 13 mars 2012 - 07:48 .

[lavosslayer]

Lambchopz wrote...

Auresta wrote...

Catreina-JTV wrote...

I wanted to bring something up that I have not seen in the 150+ pages of this massive thread I have read. It is more evidence pointing towards the indoctrination theory that I personally have embraced fully:

When you are about to make your choice, notice that going towards Control you never move faster - in fact, you get weaker as evidenced by you FALLING DOWN when trying to actually connect to the control interface. Nevermind the GC smirking, the context, or the conversation - you fall down, weaker for the choice.

Now look at what happens when you choose Destroy - you stop limping, you get your resolve back, the GC disappears the INSTANT that the Destroy device shields/barrier is penetrated (the third or fourth bullet if I recall) - you practically run to the thing, stronger for the choice.

When in the world does this happen? Getting weaker from making one choice, or stronger from making another? Let me refresh your memories - Saren does this exactly when he kills himself. TIM does this exactly when he kills himself.

Just something I have yet to see in this thread (admittedly I have only read 60% of the posts or so)

Someone just said this on this page and I don't think it's strong evidence. If you've seen control and synthesis, you'd know what I mean. 

SYNTHESIS: HE RUNS. AS IF HE WAS NEVER HURT.
CONTROL: HE FIGHTS AGAINST THE PAIN TO GET A HOLD OF THE CONTROLS.

Resolve is in all endings.

edit: I believe you are citing only slightly nuanced differences. Again, in all endings Shepard acts with great resolve and energy.

Yeah. At this point this thread has analyzed every possible proof for this theory. If it is true, then it makes plenty of sense. If not, and BioWare decides to wing it, well, here you go. Free material.

People are REALLY starting to stretch though. Maybe some us are getting TOO into this.

some of us (like myself) have done nothing but read this thread all day for the last 4 days almost...(apart from the 1 hour a day I spend in multiplayer)...I so want this to really be the real deal...Bioware tore me to pieces with the original ending...I must know if I need to prepare my headcannon or begin my worship prep for the greatest game story ever!

[balance5050]

Yep, we have found all the evidence we can, there is a lot, but nothing definite (enough). Now we just wait on the twitter ******.

[The Bridgeburner]

Omilophile wrote...

Lambchopz wrote...

Yeah. At this point this thread has analyzed every possible proof for this theory. If it is true, then it makes plenty of sense. If not, and BioWare decides to wing it, well, here you go. Free material.

People are REALLY starting to stretch though. Maybe some us are getting TOO into this.

I have stated this several times. No one listened.

Too bad you didn't say reach... then I could've pawned off a half-clever joke about flexibility.  *sigh*

[mooney6023]

Omilophile wrote...

Lambchopz wrote...

Yeah. At this point this thread has analyzed every possible proof for this theory. If it is true, then it makes plenty of sense. If not, and BioWare decides to wing it, well, here you go. Free material.

People are REALLY starting to stretch though. Maybe some us are getting TOO into this.

I have stated this several times. No one listened.

Probably because we are having fun.  And it will be gratifying to see how much we guessed correctly if we are right.  If you disagree move on.  Of course this is an internet forum, so I'm likely to get slammed, flamed, and roasted for throwing out the standard internet trope advice for this sort of thread response.

[AlphaDormante]

I love the Indoctrination theory a lot, but this has been bothering me. ...if Destroy is the "break free" option, and Control is the "succumb" option, what is Synthesis construed as? More specifically, if Destroy lets you overcome indoctrination and Control lets you submit to it, what are Synthesis' consequences for real Shepard?

Modifié par AlphaDormante, 13 mars 2012 - 07:50 .

[Omilophile]

Auresta wrote...

My advice to EVERYONE is this:

When you find evidence, find counter evidence and present both sides. It is not enough to say that Shepard gains strength in Destroy. He does, but he also does so in Control and Synthesis. It is not enough to say that the presence of trees on the run down are straight from the dream and thus must mean he is dreaming/hallucinating/indoctrinated. It could be simple oversight AND the presence of ****ed up trees is always in devastated areas.

Presenting both sides reminds us to keep things in perspective and strengthen our argument. I'm tired of seeing people post "evidence" without presenting the other side to look at. If you don't, people bandwagon on the evidence without ever considering the counterargument.

Someone presents the counterargument, it just gets buried.

THIS