57139 réponses à ce sujet

[JediNg]

Auresta wrote...

The Bridgeburner wrote...

Auresta wrote...

My advice to EVERYONE is this:

When you find evidence, find counter evidence and present both sides. It is not enough to say that Shepard gains strength in Destroy. He does, but he also does so in Control and Synthesis. It is not enough to say that the presence of trees on the run down are straight from the dream and thus must mean he is dreaming/hallucinating/indoctrinated. It could be simple oversight AND the presence of ****ed up trees is always in devastated areas.

Presenting both sides reminds us to keep things in perspective and strengthen our argument. I'm tired of seeing people post "evidence" without presenting the other side to look at. If you don't, people bandwagon on the evidence without ever considering the counterargument.

Someone presents the counterargument, it just gets buried.

It depends... not everyone can respond to everything, and most level-headed folk are more apt to chew it over first, or just disregard implausibilities. I due think it's an awesome theory, Indoctrination. But is it what's actually happening... I don't know. But at least I can muddle through some more playthroughs and not feel total disgust at the endings now. That, in and of itself, is something.

We're becoming a hivemind. We have to keep this in mind regardless. Bandwagoning on the theory just to comfort yourself is flawed. I love this theory, I really do and I really do believe in it, but I always try to present both sides or try to attack "evidence" because if this is true, it needs equal consideration from both sides.

SCIENCE!
And emerrrgency innnduction porrrts.

[Lambchopz]

Somebody with good typing skills should try to compile an easily readable list of all the evidence, preferably seperating into priorities and all that (as in, which evidence is strong and which is grasping at straws).

We've recycled the same ideas for the past 100ish pages at this point, nothing terribly new has come about since then. May as well go ahead and compile it.

PS: I'm not doing it.

[matchboxmatt]

Also, poll on your feelings if hallucination / indoctrination is really the case:

http://social.biowar...55/polls/29423/

I'd really like to see how people who hated the ending would change their minds.

[Catreina-JTV]

[quote]Fattness132 wrote...

[/quote]
Did Shepard ever mention the kid? I mean, they ask what is bothering Shepard so much, are we all sure that the kid never gets mentioned once?
[/quote]

He mentions it to garrus after palavin i think?

[/quote]

Shep does indeed mention seeing the kid get killed without being able to do anything about it.... while on the Palaven moon looking for the new whatchamacallit guy.

[The Bridgeburner]

Auresta wrote...

The Bridgeburner wrote...

Auresta wrote...

My advice to EVERYONE is this:

When you find evidence, find counter evidence and present both sides. It is not enough to say that Shepard gains strength in Destroy. He does, but he also does so in Control and Synthesis. It is not enough to say that the presence of trees on the run down are straight from the dream and thus must mean he is dreaming/hallucinating/indoctrinated. It could be simple oversight AND the presence of ****ed up trees is always in devastated areas.

Presenting both sides reminds us to keep things in perspective and strengthen our argument. I'm tired of seeing people post "evidence" without presenting the other side to look at. If you don't, people bandwagon on the evidence without ever considering the counterargument.

Someone presents the counterargument, it just gets buried.

It depends... not everyone can respond to everything, and most level-headed folk are more apt to chew it over first, or just disregard implausibilities. I due think it's an awesome theory, Indoctrination. But is it what's actually happening... I don't know. But at least I can muddle through some more playthroughs and not feel total disgust at the endings now. That, in and of itself, is something.

We're becoming a hivemind. We have to keep this in mind regardless. Bandwagoning on the theory just to comfort yourself is flawed. I love this theory, I really do and I really do believe in it, but I always try to present both sides or try to attack "evidence" because if this is true, it needs equal consideration from both sides.

Amen to that. Without counter points, nothing will get sussed out.

[Urumashi]

The Bridgeburner wrote...

Auresta wrote...

My advice to EVERYONE is this:

When you find evidence, find counter evidence and present both sides. It is not enough to say that Shepard gains strength in Destroy. He does, but he also does so in Control and Synthesis. It is not enough to say that the presence of trees on the run down are straight from the dream and thus must mean he is dreaming/hallucinating/indoctrinated. It could be simple oversight AND the presence of ****ed up trees is always in devastated areas.

Presenting both sides reminds us to keep things in perspective and strengthen our argument. I'm tired of seeing people post "evidence" without presenting the other side to look at. If you don't, people bandwagon on the evidence without ever considering the counterargument.

Someone presents the counterargument, it just gets buried.

It depends... not everyone can respond to everything, and most level-headed folk are more apt to chew it over first, or just disregard implausibilities. I due think it's an awesome theory, Indoctrination. But is it what's actually happening... I don't know. But at least I can muddle through some more playthroughs and not feel total disgust at the endings now. That, in and of itself, is something.

ya know...as valid as all of your posts have been thus far i cant help but to read everything you type in the voice of the illusive man and immediately want to dismiss what you're saying as lies and indoctrination propaganda lol.

[aquaticidioticus]

Urumashi wrote...

Just noticed one last thing, has anyone else noticed the fact that the option to destroy the reapers (i.e. shooting the conduit thingy) is the only option that requires physical violence to perform? Also, i only barely noticed this before but now it seems really important, as shep shoots the conduit he/she progressively begins to walk straighter and aim more accurately, is it possible that the physical exertion and familiar action bring shepard back from the brink thus the reason why shep walks straighter and begins to ignore the injuries is because shep is falling out from the hallucination?

Although I think your point is valid about the violence bit - as it's true - the shrugging off the injuries part happens with the Synthesis beam as well; if I remember correctly.  Shepard seems to a fast sprint/long jump (what have you) into that thing.

Edit: This is from a few pages back (and I'm in struggle mode to catch up on what I've missed), so perhaps someone already brought this up.  If so, ah well.  Sorry for the redundancy.  

Modifié par aquaticidioticus, 13 mars 2012 - 07:59 .

[krystalevenstar]

JediNg wrote...

Auresta wrote...

JediNg wrote...

You know what else is odd? And this is a minor detail: destroy/red is on the right whilst control/blue is on the left

Addressed throughout the thread and my BF mentioned this as well. Thanks for bringing it up again for those who missed it, though.

BLAST!

I believe this one only is noticable to the PC players. On consoles, at least on Xbox, I believe the Renegade option is always on the right... I might be wrong though, it's late and I can't remember for certain.

[Sl4sh3r]

cubie_hole7 wrote...

Elidor109 wrote...

cubie_hole7 wrote...

Elidor109 wrote...

Didn't seem to work properly, click this and zoom in for Gibbed's view.

http://imageshack.us...8/66456249.png/

For those that can't read/see the image.  It shows were a 'finished' game save file has three categorizations:

1. Not finished
2. Out in a blaze of glory
3. Lived to fight again   <<<<<=======

It's rather telling that there is such a designation for a final game.  Seems like all that would be needed for the new game+ is either a 'not finished' or 'finished' designation.  Of course, if dlc is going to finish the ending, the dlc needs to know how the indoctrination went.  Good find.

Yeah, I think it's pretty daming evidence.

I agree.  It's literally in the game code.  No need to be vague and mysterious there.  It's basically a smoking gun that the game isn't over.

I'm all for this cause... But that just seems to be a "Oh he got the secret ending" type of variable.

However I'm hopeful that I'm completely and utterly wrong and that it strengthents the Indoctrination Theory case.

[Urumashi]

[quote]Catreina-JTV wrote...

[quote]Fattness132 wrote...

[/quote]
Did Shepard ever mention the kid? I mean, they ask what is bothering Shepard so much, are we all sure that the kid never gets mentioned once?
[/quote]

He mentions it to garrus after palavin i think?

[/quote]

Shep does indeed mention seeing the kid get killed without being able to do anything about it.... while on the Palaven moon looking for the new whatchamacallit guy.

[/quote]
He gets close, at one point someone askes him (i'm reasonably sure its Trayner) if something was wrong and he just says "i havent been sleeping too well"

[Lambchopz]

matchboxmatt wrote...

Also, poll on your feelings if hallucination / indoctrination is really the case:

http://social.biowar...55/polls/29423/

I'd really like to see how people who hated the ending would change their minds.

You may want to expand that poll a bit. There is a large group of people that aren't convinced it was the plan but would accept it as the ending regardless if the implemented it.

[The0ther]

krystalevenstar wrote...

JediNg wrote...

Auresta wrote...

JediNg wrote...

You know what else is odd? And this is a minor detail: destroy/red is on the right whilst control/blue is on the left

Addressed throughout the thread and my BF mentioned this as well. Thanks for bringing it up again for those who missed it, though.

BLAST!

I believe this one only is noticable to the PC players. On consoles, at least on Xbox, I believe the Renegade option is always on the right... I might be wrong though, it's late and I can't remember for certain.

On the consoles the right trigger is shoot and renegade, left is aim and paragon. On a mouse left is shoot and renegade, right is aim and paragon.

[Ravax]

Gamingtrek12025 wrote...

Ravax wrote...

Just pointing out something...

Even on 1, or even 2 year old threads, I have NEVER seen 280 pages... and this is in only 3 DAYS...

Yeah, and the views are through the roof.

"So we can't get the ending we want after all?
" and that thread has 165,000 replies, almost 1k pages hahahaha....

If BW hasn't something up their sleeves about these endings, than this is a PR nightmare for them and EA....

[Auresta]

aquaticidioticus wrote...

Urumashi wrote...

Just noticed one last thing, has anyone else noticed the fact that the option to destroy the reapers (i.e. shooting the conduit thingy) is the only option that requires physical violence to perform? Also, i only barely noticed this before but now it seems really important, as shep shoots the conduit he/she progressively begins to walk straighter and aim more accurately, is it possible that the physical exertion and familiar action bring shepard back from the brink thus the reason why shep walks straighter and begins to ignore the injuries is because shep is falling out from the hallucination?

Although I think your point is valid about the violence bit - as it's true - the shrugging off the injuries part happens with the Synthesis beam as well; if I remember correctly.  Shepard seems to a fast sprint/long jump (what have you) into that thing.

Edit: This is from a few pages back (and I'm in struggle mode to catch up on what I've missed), so perhaps someone already brought this up.  If so, ah well.  Sorry for the redundancy.  

I addressed this twice before in the last 5 minutes - perhaps we need an FAQ.

[JediNg]

The0ther wrote...

On the consoles the right trigger is shoot and renegade, left is aim and paragon. On a mouse left is shoot and renegade, right is aim and paragon.

Ah, fair enough.  I take it back lol

[Auresta]

The0ther wrote...

krystalevenstar wrote...

JediNg wrote...

Auresta wrote...

JediNg wrote...

You know what else is odd? And this is a minor detail: destroy/red is on the right whilst control/blue is on the left

Addressed throughout the thread and my BF mentioned this as well. Thanks for bringing it up again for those who missed it, though.

BLAST!

I believe this one only is noticable to the PC players. On consoles, at least on Xbox, I believe the Renegade option is always on the right... I might be wrong though, it's late and I can't remember for certain.

On the consoles the right trigger is shoot and renegade, left is aim and paragon. On a mouse left is shoot and renegade, right is aim and paragon.

Thank you for bringing this up!

[mooney6023]

JediNg wrote...

Auresta wrote...

The Bridgeburner wrote...

Auresta wrote...

My advice to EVERYONE is this:

When you find evidence, find counter evidence and present both sides. It is not enough to say that Shepard gains strength in Destroy. He does, but he also does so in Control and Synthesis. It is not enough to say that the presence of trees on the run down are straight from the dream and thus must mean he is dreaming/hallucinating/indoctrinated. It could be simple oversight AND the presence of ****ed up trees is always in devastated areas.

Presenting both sides reminds us to keep things in perspective and strengthen our argument. I'm tired of seeing people post "evidence" without presenting the other side to look at. If you don't, people bandwagon on the evidence without ever considering the counterargument.

Someone presents the counterargument, it just gets buried.

It depends... not everyone can respond to everything, and most level-headed folk are more apt to chew it over first, or just disregard implausibilities. I due think it's an awesome theory, Indoctrination. But is it what's actually happening... I don't know. But at least I can muddle through some more playthroughs and not feel total disgust at the endings now. That, in and of itself, is something.

We're becoming a hivemind. We have to keep this in mind regardless. Bandwagoning on the theory just to comfort yourself is flawed. I love this theory, I really do and I really do believe in it, but I always try to present both sides or try to attack "evidence" because if this is true, it needs equal consideration from both sides.

SCIENCE!
And emerrrgency innnduction porrrts.

And russians singing the national anthem in them there submarine

[aquaticidioticus]

Auresta wrote...

aquaticidioticus wrote...

Urumashi wrote...

Just noticed one last thing, has anyone else noticed the fact that the option to destroy the reapers (i.e. shooting the conduit thingy) is the only option that requires physical violence to perform? Also, i only barely noticed this before but now it seems really important, as shep shoots the conduit he/she progressively begins to walk straighter and aim more accurately, is it possible that the physical exertion and familiar action bring shepard back from the brink thus the reason why shep walks straighter and begins to ignore the injuries is because shep is falling out from the hallucination?

Although I think your point is valid about the violence bit - as it's true - the shrugging off the injuries part happens with the Synthesis beam as well; if I remember correctly.  Shepard seems to a fast sprint/long jump (what have you) into that thing.

Edit: This is from a few pages back (and I'm in struggle mode to catch up on what I've missed), so perhaps someone already brought this up.  If so, ah well.  Sorry for the redundancy.  

I addressed this twice before in the last 5 minutes - perhaps we need an FAQ.

Like I said - struggle mode.  

This thread moves way too quickly for me to keep track of everything.  Not necessarily a bad thing.

[Urumashi]

aquaticidioticus wrote...

Urumashi wrote...

Just noticed one last thing, has anyone else noticed the fact that the option to destroy the reapers (i.e. shooting the conduit thingy) is the only option that requires physical violence to perform? Also, i only barely noticed this before but now it seems really important, as shep shoots the conduit he/she progressively begins to walk straighter and aim more accurately, is it possible that the physical exertion and familiar action bring shepard back from the brink thus the reason why shep walks straighter and begins to ignore the injuries is because shep is falling out from the hallucination?

Although I think your point is valid about the violence bit - as it's true - the shrugging off the injuries part happens with the Synthesis beam as well; if I remember correctly.  Shepard seems to a fast sprint/long jump (what have you) into that thing.

Edit: This is from a few pages back (and I'm in struggle mode to catch up on what I've missed), so perhaps someone already brought this up.  If so, ah well.  Sorry for the redundancy.  

It's a tad redundant, we nearly addressed that point but you're still right, while we dont have a concrete answer to that yet my theory is that since the synergy option is closer to the destroy option than controll is shep is almost able to fight back against the reaper influence but essentially fails because it shows him get all calm while disentigrading in the beam. dunno, essentially just guessing tho

[J4N3_M3]

this whole discussion is kinda like working against indoctrination xD There's this HUGE mass of people who simply HATE the endings and rub it right in your face if you don't jump on the OMG-THIS-SUCKS-SO-MUCH-bandwagon and then a theory started to come up, a quiet voice that gets joined by others going NO THE END IS NOT CRAP IF THIS THEORY PROVES TRUE. And this voice is becoming louder and louder.

just found it funny and rather interesting to watch so i mentioned it xD

[Recon911PDW]

Ravax wrote...

Just pointing out something...

Even on 1, or even 2 year old threads, I have NEVER seen 280 pages... and this is in only 3 DAYS...

You think that's a lot, look at this http://social.biowar...index/9512916/1

Modifié par Recon911PDW, 13 mars 2012 - 08:03 .

[Auresta]

I wouldn't mind making an FAQ or a document of the evidence and opposing evidence (both sides INSTEAD of just evidence).. except that would take a while and I would need to be done with midterms first.

[The Bridgeburner]

Urumashi wrote...


ya know...as valid as all of your posts have been thus far i cant help but to read everything you type in the voice of the illusive man and immediately want to dismiss what you're saying as lies and indoctrination propaganda lol.

  Yeah, lol.

Maybe I figure Blue Oyster Cult had it right... "Don't Fear the Reaper(s)". 

I think mainly cuz it's Martin Sheen voicing TIM that I went with the avatar.

[Elidor109]

cubie_hole7 wrote...

Elidor109 wrote...

cubie_hole7 wrote...

Elidor109 wrote...

Didn't seem to work properly, click this and zoom in for Gibbed's view.

http://imageshack.us...8/66456249.png/

For those that can't read/see the image.  It shows were a 'finished' game save file has three categorizations:

1. Not finished
2. Out in a blaze of glory
3. Lived to fight again   <<<<<=======

It's rather telling that there is such a designation for a final game.  Seems like all that would be needed for the new game+ is either a 'not finished' or 'finished' designation.  Of course, if dlc is going to finish the ending, the dlc needs to know how the indoctrination went.  Good find.

Yeah, I think it's pretty daming evidence.

I agree.  It's literally in the game code.  No need to be vague and mysterious there.  It's basically a smoking gun that the game isn't over.

Either that, or in ME4 they'll be like, "Yeah, that Shepard guy managed to live though after he killed EDI, the geth, and millions of people stuck on colonies that couldn't support themselves."

[Urumashi]

mooney6023 wrote...

JediNg wrote...

Auresta wrote...

The Bridgeburner wrote...

Auresta wrote...

My advice to EVERYONE is this:

When you find evidence, find counter evidence and present both sides. It is not enough to say that Shepard gains strength in Destroy. He does, but he also does so in Control and Synthesis. It is not enough to say that the presence of trees on the run down are straight from the dream and thus must mean he is dreaming/hallucinating/indoctrinated. It could be simple oversight AND the presence of ****ed up trees is always in devastated areas.

Presenting both sides reminds us to keep things in perspective and strengthen our argument. I'm tired of seeing people post "evidence" without presenting the other side to look at. If you don't, people bandwagon on the evidence without ever considering the counterargument.

Someone presents the counterargument, it just gets buried.

It depends... not everyone can respond to everything, and most level-headed folk are more apt to chew it over first, or just disregard implausibilities. I due think it's an awesome theory, Indoctrination. But is it what's actually happening... I don't know. But at least I can muddle through some more playthroughs and not feel total disgust at the endings now. That, in and of itself, is something.

We're becoming a hivemind. We have to keep this in mind regardless. Bandwagoning on the theory just to comfort yourself is flawed. I love this theory, I really do and I really do believe in it, but I always try to present both sides or try to attack "evidence" because if this is true, it needs equal consideration from both sides.

SCIENCE!
And emerrrgency innnduction porrrts.

And russians singing the national anthem in them there submarine

i'm beginning to love this thread