57139 réponses à ce sujet

[MassiveEffects]

Ravax wrote...

Just pointing out something...

Even on 1, or even 2 year old threads, I have NEVER seen 280 pages... and this is in only 3 DAYS...

I know! ME3's ending sure invoked a lot of passionate responses!

[Auresta]

aquaticidioticus wrote...

Auresta wrote...

aquaticidioticus wrote...

Urumashi wrote...

Just noticed one last thing, has anyone else noticed the fact that the option to destroy the reapers (i.e. shooting the conduit thingy) is the only option that requires physical violence to perform? Also, i only barely noticed this before but now it seems really important, as shep shoots the conduit he/she progressively begins to walk straighter and aim more accurately, is it possible that the physical exertion and familiar action bring shepard back from the brink thus the reason why shep walks straighter and begins to ignore the injuries is because shep is falling out from the hallucination?

Although I think your point is valid about the violence bit - as it's true - the shrugging off the injuries part happens with the Synthesis beam as well; if I remember correctly.  Shepard seems to a fast sprint/long jump (what have you) into that thing.

Edit: This is from a few pages back (and I'm in struggle mode to catch up on what I've missed), so perhaps someone already brought this up.  If so, ah well.  Sorry for the redundancy.  

I addressed this twice before in the last 5 minutes - perhaps we need an FAQ.

Like I said - struggle mode.  

This thread moves way too quickly for me to keep track of everything.  Not necessarily a bad thing.

It moves fast and I'm not blaming you! It's just that since it's been asked a lot it might make sense for an FAQ to come about.. or an update to the first page.

[MasterMenace]

There's on "mathematical" approach to further solidifying the destroy option as "canon"...

http://www.ign.com/w...ffect-3/Endings

Take a look at the 4k and 5k asset descriptions.

BOTH involve DESTROY!!!

Even better is when you destroy the collector base, Shep. always survives.

Also...why would the destroy option come up only when you have >4k assets? It's got to be the most important ending obvioulsly since the more assets, the better the ending.

simple magic logic.

Destroy is associated with more assetts and shep survives = thus it's the "best" option

[aquaticidioticus]

Urumashi wrote...

aquaticidioticus wrote...

Urumashi wrote...

Just noticed one last thing, has anyone else noticed the fact that the option to destroy the reapers (i.e. shooting the conduit thingy) is the only option that requires physical violence to perform? Also, i only barely noticed this before but now it seems really important, as shep shoots the conduit he/she progressively begins to walk straighter and aim more accurately, is it possible that the physical exertion and familiar action bring shepard back from the brink thus the reason why shep walks straighter and begins to ignore the injuries is because shep is falling out from the hallucination?

Although I think your point is valid about the violence bit - as it's true - the shrugging off the injuries part happens with the Synthesis beam as well; if I remember correctly.  Shepard seems to a fast sprint/long jump (what have you) into that thing.

Edit: This is from a few pages back (and I'm in struggle mode to catch up on what I've missed), so perhaps someone already brought this up.  If so, ah well.  Sorry for the redundancy.  

It's a tad redundant, we nearly addressed that point but you're still right, while we dont have a concrete answer to that yet my theory is that since the synergy option is closer to the destroy option than controll is shep is almost able to fight back against the reaper influence but essentially fails because it shows him get all calm while disentigrading in the beam. dunno, essentially just guessing tho

That... is actually a good point - about the location of the beam being closer.  I'm going to have to go back a few pages and read over what I missed (which what I was doing, but more pages keep cropping up in the meantime).

In any case - keep it up everyone.  I'm liking what I've been reading as of late.  

[mooney6023]

Urumashi wrote...

mooney6023 wrote...

JediNg wrote...

Auresta wrote...

The Bridgeburner wrote...

Auresta wrote...

My advice to EVERYONE is this:

When you find evidence, find counter evidence and present both sides. It is not enough to say that Shepard gains strength in Destroy. He does, but he also does so in Control and Synthesis. It is not enough to say that the presence of trees on the run down are straight from the dream and thus must mean he is dreaming/hallucinating/indoctrinated. It could be simple oversight AND the presence of ****ed up trees is always in devastated areas.

Presenting both sides reminds us to keep things in perspective and strengthen our argument. I'm tired of seeing people post "evidence" without presenting the other side to look at. If you don't, people bandwagon on the evidence without ever considering the counterargument.

Someone presents the counterargument, it just gets buried.

It depends... not everyone can respond to everything, and most level-headed folk are more apt to chew it over first, or just disregard implausibilities. I due think it's an awesome theory, Indoctrination. But is it what's actually happening... I don't know. But at least I can muddle through some more playthroughs and not feel total disgust at the endings now. That, in and of itself, is something.

We're becoming a hivemind. We have to keep this in mind regardless. Bandwagoning on the theory just to comfort yourself is flawed. I love this theory, I really do and I really do believe in it, but I always try to present both sides or try to attack "evidence" because if this is true, it needs equal consideration from both sides.

SCIENCE!
And emerrrgency innnduction porrrts.

And russians singing the national anthem in them there submarine

i'm beginning to love this thread

I'm sorry, but the "Hunt for Red October" tribute line just cracked me up, but Joker has cracked me up so many times I've lost count anyway.

[J4N3_M3]

Urumashi wrote...

aquaticidioticus wrote...

Urumashi wrote...

Just noticed one last thing, has anyone else noticed the fact that the option to destroy the reapers (i.e. shooting the conduit thingy) is the only option that requires physical violence to perform? Also, i only barely noticed this before but now it seems really important, as shep shoots the conduit he/she progressively begins to walk straighter and aim more accurately, is it possible that the physical exertion and familiar action bring shepard back from the brink thus the reason why shep walks straighter and begins to ignore the injuries is because shep is falling out from the hallucination?

Although I think your point is valid about the violence bit - as it's true - the shrugging off the injuries part happens with the Synthesis beam as well; if I remember correctly.  Shepard seems to a fast sprint/long jump (what have you) into that thing.

Edit: This is from a few pages back (and I'm in struggle mode to catch up on what I've missed), so perhaps someone already brought this up.  If so, ah well.  Sorry for the redundancy.  

It's a tad redundant, we nearly addressed that point but you're still right, while we dont have a concrete answer to that yet my theory is that since the synergy option is closer to the destroy option than controll is shep is almost able to fight back against the reaper influence but essentially fails because it shows him get all calm while disentigrading in the beam. dunno, essentially just guessing tho

To me it seemed as if his/her physical exhaustion was some sort of metaphor for his/her mental struggle and once Shep had made up his/her mind, (s)he could go for its execution much stronger and without a doubt. 

[cubie_hole7]

Sl4sh3r wrote...

cubie_hole7 wrote...

Elidor109 wrote...

cubie_hole7 wrote...

Elidor109 wrote...

Didn't seem to work properly, click this and zoom in for Gibbed's view.

http://imageshack.us...8/66456249.png/

For those that can't read/see the image.  It shows were a 'finished' game save file has three categorizations:

1. Not finished
2. Out in a blaze of glory
3. Lived to fight again   <<<<<=======

It's rather telling that there is such a designation for a final game.  Seems like all that would be needed for the new game+ is either a 'not finished' or 'finished' designation.  Of course, if dlc is going to finish the ending, the dlc needs to know how the indoctrination went.  Good find.

Yeah, I think it's pretty daming evidence.

I agree.  It's literally in the game code.  No need to be vague and mysterious there.  It's basically a smoking gun that the game isn't over.

I'm all for this cause... But that just seems to be a "Oh he got the secret ending" type of variable.

However I'm hopeful that I'm completely and utterly wrong and that it strengthents the Indoctrination Theory case.

It's not for the "you got the secret ending." 

I just checked my NewGamePlusSave file, and it is listed as "Lived to Fight To Again".  I choose to destroy, but my EMS (below 4000)  was not high enough to get the secret ending.

[Lugaidster]

So, has anyone replayed it after getting the "survival ending" with a new game plus?

[AscendBaldur]

J4N3_M3 wrote...

this whole discussion is kinda like working against indoctrination xD There's this HUGE mass of people who simply HATE the endings and rub it right in your face if you don't jump on the OMG-THIS-SUCKS-SO-MUCH-bandwagon and then a theory started to come up, a quiet voice that gets joined by others going NO THE END IS NOT CRAP IF THIS THEORY PROVES TRUE. And this voice is becoming louder and louder.

just found it funny and rather interesting to watch so i mentioned it xD

That's what I've been starting to feel. This whole movement is us acting just like our Shephards would (paragon or renegade doesn't matter, he would never take something at face value, he would never change his core values/principles, be they protection of innocence, or win at all costs). I think the Devs wanted us to have this response to make the feeling that not only was Shephard almost indoctrinated, but also the Shephard you carry inside you since ME1.

[Auresta]

cubie_hole7 wrote...

Sl4sh3r wrote...

cubie_hole7 wrote...

Elidor109 wrote...

cubie_hole7 wrote...

Elidor109 wrote...

Didn't seem to work properly, click this and zoom in for Gibbed's view.

http://imageshack.us...8/66456249.png/

For those that can't read/see the image.  It shows were a 'finished' game save file has three categorizations:

1. Not finished
2. Out in a blaze of glory
3. Lived to fight again   <<<<<=======

It's rather telling that there is such a designation for a final game.  Seems like all that would be needed for the new game+ is either a 'not finished' or 'finished' designation.  Of course, if dlc is going to finish the ending, the dlc needs to know how the indoctrination went.  Good find.

Yeah, I think it's pretty daming evidence.

I agree.  It's literally in the game code.  No need to be vague and mysterious there.  It's basically a smoking gun that the game isn't over.

I'm all for this cause... But that just seems to be a "Oh he got the secret ending" type of variable.

However I'm hopeful that I'm completely and utterly wrong and that it strengthents the Indoctrination Theory case.

It's not for the "you got the secret ending." 

I just checked my NewGamePlusSave file, and it is listed as "Lived to Fight To Again".  I choose to destroy, but my EMS (below 4000)  was not high enough to get the secret ending.

Thanks for bringing this up!

[Hedera]

Lugaidster wrote...

So, has anyone replayed it after getting the "survival ending" with a new game plus?

I will be in a week when I get back to my computer.

[bitcloudrzr]

They did always say the things they were planning for this game were crazy.

Modifié par bitcloudrzr, 13 mars 2012 - 08:07 .

[Urumashi]

J4N3_M3 wrote...

Urumashi wrote...

aquaticidioticus wrote...

Urumashi wrote...

Just noticed one last thing, has anyone else noticed the fact that the option to destroy the reapers (i.e. shooting the conduit thingy) is the only option that requires physical violence to perform? Also, i only barely noticed this before but now it seems really important, as shep shoots the conduit he/she progressively begins to walk straighter and aim more accurately, is it possible that the physical exertion and familiar action bring shepard back from the brink thus the reason why shep walks straighter and begins to ignore the injuries is because shep is falling out from the hallucination?

Although I think your point is valid about the violence bit - as it's true - the shrugging off the injuries part happens with the Synthesis beam as well; if I remember correctly.  Shepard seems to a fast sprint/long jump (what have you) into that thing.

Edit: This is from a few pages back (and I'm in struggle mode to catch up on what I've missed), so perhaps someone already brought this up.  If so, ah well.  Sorry for the redundancy.  

It's a tad redundant, we nearly addressed that point but you're still right, while we dont have a concrete answer to that yet my theory is that since the synergy option is closer to the destroy option than controll is shep is almost able to fight back against the reaper influence but essentially fails because it shows him get all calm while disentigrading in the beam. dunno, essentially just guessing tho

To me it seemed as if his/her physical exhaustion was some sort of metaphor for his/her mental struggle and once Shep had made up his/her mind, (s)he could go for its execution much stronger and without a doubt. 

Precisely my point really for controll shep only barely makes it to the two peg things because she/he is too mentally exhausted to keep fighting, for synergy there's the big burst of energy for the run and jump but then, as i said, the slowly slipping out of conciousness possibly evident of shep giving up the fight, and for destroy shep keeps getting stronger all the way up till the screen goes to credits, suggesting that shep beat the reaper's mental restraints was was breaking free.

edit: hell, just to tie this into the post above us, shepard breaking free is kinda like our forum picking up momentum as we're solving the clues

Modifié par Urumashi, 13 mars 2012 - 08:09 .

[S1at3]

My questions are how does the ending where it shows what appears to be Sheppard under rebel and taking a one deep breath, as well as the Normany flying through space and crashing factor into the hallucination. Everything else fits perfectly except those.

[kent80082006]

I think we've been repeating ideas for about a hundred pages now, someone with spare time should really compile the findings together, both in-game and from the staff twitter accounts

[krystalevenstar]

I'm headed to bed. No doubt the thread will have another 50 pages by the time I get back tomorrow. Oh well, keep fighting the good fight BSN!

[The Bridgeburner]

AscendBaldur wrote...

J4N3_M3 wrote...

this whole discussion is kinda like working against indoctrination xD There's this HUGE mass of people who simply HATE the endings and rub it right in your face if you don't jump on the OMG-THIS-SUCKS-SO-MUCH-bandwagon and then a theory started to come up, a quiet voice that gets joined by others going NO THE END IS NOT CRAP IF THIS THEORY PROVES TRUE. And this voice is becoming louder and louder.

just found it funny and rather interesting to watch so i mentioned it xD

That's what I've been starting to feel. This whole movement is us acting just like our Shephards would (paragon or renegade doesn't matter, he would never take something at face value, he would never change his core values/principles, be they protection of innocence, or win at all costs). I think the Devs wanted us to have this response to make the feeling that not only was Shephard almost indoctrinated, but also the Shephard you carry inside you since ME1.

It's truly clever way to bring about player/character immersion. It's unlike anything I've seen for a game, ever. The ability to bring about people's emotions (rage, anger at the endings) and then have some of them try and figure out what it all means in a game sense, and in a metaphysical one as well. It's been a treat to watch.

[Sl4sh3r]

Auresta wrote...

cubie_hole7 wrote...

Sl4sh3r wrote...

cubie_hole7 wrote...

Elidor109 wrote...

cubie_hole7 wrote...

Elidor109 wrote...

Didn't seem to work properly, click this and zoom in for Gibbed's view.

http://imageshack.us...8/66456249.png/

For those that can't read/see the image.  It shows were a 'finished' game save file has three categorizations:

1. Not finished
2. Out in a blaze of glory
3. Lived to fight again   <<<<<=======

It's rather telling that there is such a designation for a final game.  Seems like all that would be needed for the new game+ is either a 'not finished' or 'finished' designation.  Of course, if dlc is going to finish the ending, the dlc needs to know how the indoctrination went.  Good find.

Yeah, I think it's pretty daming evidence.

I agree.  It's literally in the game code.  No need to be vague and mysterious there.  It's basically a smoking gun that the game isn't over.

I'm all for this cause... But that just seems to be a "Oh he got the secret ending" type of variable.

However I'm hopeful that I'm completely and utterly wrong and that it strengthents the Indoctrination Theory case.

It's not for the "you got the secret ending." 

I just checked my NewGamePlusSave file, and it is listed as "Lived to Fight To Again".  I choose to destroy, but my EMS (below 4000)  was not high enough to get the secret ending.

Thanks for bringing this up!

So Destroy is Canon?

Does anyone have a Synthesize or Control save to check?

Modifié par Sl4sh3r, 13 mars 2012 - 08:11 .

[Elidor109]

Auresta wrote...

cubie_hole7 wrote...

Sl4sh3r wrote...

cubie_hole7 wrote...

Elidor109 wrote...

cubie_hole7 wrote...

Elidor109 wrote...

Didn't seem to work properly, click this and zoom in for Gibbed's view.

http://imageshack.us...8/66456249.png/

For those that can't read/see the image.  It shows were a 'finished' game save file has three categorizations:

1. Not finished
2. Out in a blaze of glory
3. Lived to fight again   <<<<<=======

It's rather telling that there is such a designation for a final game.  Seems like all that would be needed for the new game+ is either a 'not finished' or 'finished' designation.  Of course, if dlc is going to finish the ending, the dlc needs to know how the indoctrination went.  Good find.

Yeah, I think it's pretty daming evidence.

I agree.  It's literally in the game code.  No need to be vague and mysterious there.  It's basically a smoking gun that the game isn't over.

I'm all for this cause... But that just seems to be a "Oh he got the secret ending" type of variable.

However I'm hopeful that I'm completely and utterly wrong and that it strengthents the Indoctrination Theory case.

It's not for the "you got the secret ending." 

I just checked my NewGamePlusSave file, and it is listed as "Lived to Fight To Again".  I choose to destroy, but my EMS (below 4000)  was not high enough to get the secret ending.

Thanks for bringing this up!

Bioware doesn't need to answer us. The game's coding has brought us the truth! 

Obligatory Space Magic

[MasterMenace]

MasterMenace wrote...

There's on "mathematical" approach to further solidifying the destroy option as "canon"...

http://www.ign.com/w...ffect-3/Endings

Take a look at the 4k and 5k asset descriptions.

BOTH involve DESTROY!!!

Even better is when you destroy the collector base, Shep. always survives.

Also...why would the destroy option come up only when you have >4k assets? It's got to be the most important ending obvioulsly since the more assets, the better the ending.

simple magic logic.

Destroy is associated with more assetts and shep survives = thus it's the "best" option

Just wanted to make sure people saw some "mathematical" logic to this again since I don't want it to get buried. Not even sure if anyone related the amount of war assets needed to actually unlock both destroy+saving shepard. It's the hardest ending to unlock where shep. can live.

[Auresta]

Elidor109 wrote...

Auresta wrote...

cubie_hole7 wrote...

Sl4sh3r wrote...

cubie_hole7 wrote...

Elidor109 wrote...

cubie_hole7 wrote...

Elidor109 wrote...

Didn't seem to work properly, click this and zoom in for Gibbed's view.

http://imageshack.us...8/66456249.png/

For those that can't read/see the image.  It shows were a 'finished' game save file has three categorizations:

1. Not finished
2. Out in a blaze of glory
3. Lived to fight again   <<<<<=======

It's rather telling that there is such a designation for a final game.  Seems like all that would be needed for the new game+ is either a 'not finished' or 'finished' designation.  Of course, if dlc is going to finish the ending, the dlc needs to know how the indoctrination went.  Good find.

Yeah, I think it's pretty daming evidence.

I agree.  It's literally in the game code.  No need to be vague and mysterious there.  It's basically a smoking gun that the game isn't over.

I'm all for this cause... But that just seems to be a "Oh he got the secret ending" type of variable.

However I'm hopeful that I'm completely and utterly wrong and that it strengthents the Indoctrination Theory case.

It's not for the "you got the secret ending." 

I just checked my NewGamePlusSave file, and it is listed as "Lived to Fight To Again".  I choose to destroy, but my EMS (below 4000)  was not high enough to get the secret ending.

Thanks for bringing this up!

Bioware doesn't need to answer us. The game's coding has brought us the truth! 

Obligatory Space Magic

Is it the game's coding or is it simply Gibbed's name for it?

[Elidor109]

Sl4sh3r wrote...

Auresta wrote...

cubie_hole7 wrote...

Sl4sh3r wrote...

cubie_hole7 wrote...

Elidor109 wrote...

cubie_hole7 wrote...

Elidor109 wrote...

Didn't seem to work properly, click this and zoom in for Gibbed's view.

http://imageshack.us...8/66456249.png/

For those that can't read/see the image.  It shows were a 'finished' game save file has three categorizations:

1. Not finished
2. Out in a blaze of glory
3. Lived to fight again   <<<<<=======

It's rather telling that there is such a designation for a final game.  Seems like all that would be needed for the new game+ is either a 'not finished' or 'finished' designation.  Of course, if dlc is going to finish the ending, the dlc needs to know how the indoctrination went.  Good find.

Yeah, I think it's pretty daming evidence.

I agree.  It's literally in the game code.  No need to be vague and mysterious there.  It's basically a smoking gun that the game isn't over.

I'm all for this cause... But that just seems to be a "Oh he got the secret ending" type of variable.

However I'm hopeful that I'm completely and utterly wrong and that it strengthents the Indoctrination Theory case.

It's not for the "you got the secret ending." 

I just checked my NewGamePlusSave file, and it is listed as "Lived to Fight To Again".  I choose to destroy, but my EMS (below 4000)  was not high enough to get the secret ending.

Thanks for bringing this up!

So Destroy is Canon?

Does anyone have a Synthesize or Control save to check?

I believe I saw on a different thread someone saying that they chose synthesize and it still showed, "Lived to fight again." However, I'd say someone needs to check this to be sure.

[BadlyBrowned]

kent80082006 wrote...

I think we've been repeating ideas for about a hundred pages now, someone with spare time should really compile the findings together, both in-game and from the staff twitter accounts

Definitley. Wish I had the time right now, but I got midterms lol

[Lugaidster]

Elidor109 wrote...

Auresta wrote...

cubie_hole7 wrote...

Sl4sh3r wrote...

cubie_hole7 wrote...

Elidor109 wrote...

cubie_hole7 wrote...

Elidor109 wrote...

Didn't seem to work properly, click this and zoom in for Gibbed's view.

http://imageshack.us...8/66456249.png/

For those that can't read/see the image.  It shows were a 'finished' game save file has three categorizations:

1. Not finished
2. Out in a blaze of glory
3. Lived to fight again   <<<<<=======

It's rather telling that there is such a designation for a final game.  Seems like all that would be needed for the new game+ is either a 'not finished' or 'finished' designation.  Of course, if dlc is going to finish the ending, the dlc needs to know how the indoctrination went.  Good find.

Yeah, I think it's pretty daming evidence.

I agree.  It's literally in the game code.  No need to be vague and mysterious there.  It's basically a smoking gun that the game isn't over.

I'm all for this cause... But that just seems to be a "Oh he got the secret ending" type of variable.

However I'm hopeful that I'm completely and utterly wrong and that it strengthents the Indoctrination Theory case.

It's not for the "you got the secret ending." 

I just checked my NewGamePlusSave file, and it is listed as "Lived to Fight To Again".  I choose to destroy, but my EMS (below 4000)  was not high enough to get the secret ending.

Thanks for bringing this up!

Bioware doesn't need to answer us. The game's coding has brought us the truth! 

Obligatory Space Magic

The only thing that keeps bothering me though is if the "real" ending is in fact included in the game and no one has bothered to unlock it yet...

[BigBossBoo]

If you visit Diana's room right after Cerberus's base and before Earth, she'll be talking about military leaders using force on the resistance and that the leaders may possibly be indoctrinated. Which makes sense, since they've been fighting the reapers head on for a long time now and had a lot of direct exposure.

So would Anderson actually be partially indoctrinated?