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[Reptilian Rob]

LadyofRivendell wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

AscendBaldur wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

Is anyone else taking an allegorical feel to this, and maybe seeing what BW is doing?

I think they're trying to "indoctrinate" feeding us this terrible ending and making us question ourselves and the franchise. I think they are testing our will here, and something much, much greater and grand is about to come out of this...

If it does, then Mass Effect may be the grandest story told in the last twenty years of gaming, and maybe any other form of media.

Hold your breath, grandfather has ONE more story to tell.

yes several of us have already posted to this effect, a few pages back.

Glad to see I'm not the only person in that boat. 

I was under the impression that this was one of the big theories, that BW was indoctrinating us at the same time that the Reapers were indoctrinating Shepard. Therefore, the end is a test to both of us. 

If this true...

My god, I will weep in the sreets from the brilliance. It would be a magnum opus that would last in gamer's minds and psych's forever.

[Elidor109]

Icinix wrote...

Hydralisk wrote...

Ravax wrote...

Dont know if this has been mentioned (too many pages) but i think this is the

SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT PIECE OF EVIDENCE as to why we havent 'finished the game yet':

WE DID NOT HAVE A BOSS FIGHT!!!!!!!!!

ME1: Saren
ME2: Human Reaper

ME3: wtf no choice straight line emotional flush down the pooper rage / table flip / hours on forums trying to find salvation.

TIM was going to be a boss fight, with him turning into a Reaper/Husk thing or something, but that was scrapped for the dialogue scene we got.

The one where you can fail.

Also - am I the only one who doesn't believe that TIM is indoctrinated?

I would laugh so hard if it turned out that I made TIM kill himself even though he wasn't really indoctrinated xD

Modifié par Elidor109, 13 mars 2012 - 08:35 .

[Silasqtx]

I wouldn't be surprised if out of nowhere the G-Man comes up saying "Rise and shine... Commander Sheparrrrrd... rise and shine."

But, seriously, this thread has made some good points, and i'm ready to believe that because they're logically explained.

So, rock on.

[The Bridgeburner]

Sierra163 wrote...

Ravax wrote...

Urumashi wrote...

Ravax wrote...

Dont know if this has been mentioned (too many pages) but i think this is the

SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT PIECE OF EVIDENCE as to why we havent 'finished the game yet':

WE DID NOT HAVE A BOSS FIGHT!!!!!!!!!

ME1: Saren
ME2: Human Reaper

ME3: wtf no choice straight line emotional flush down the pooper rage / table flip / hours on forums trying to find salvation.

yet another thing that had been bugging me, i had always passed it off as "well...mabye they just counted that huge wave of reaperspawn you had to fend off from the missles as such. But now that this whole indoctrination possibility has come to light that seems like a major bit of evidence

In regards to the huge wave of reaperspawn, we had similar in ME1 and ME2, let me extrapolate:

in ME1: Before getting into the council chamber for the final boss fight with Saren, you had to pass hoards of geth on the outer walls of the citadel.

in ME2: HOARDS of collector's and Harbinger's: Assuming direct control of the pawns... and on the flying platforms..

That huge wave of reaperspawns, was just as any other game should be, a difficult final corridor of fighting, leading to the ultimate boss fight...

This is one of the glaring things missing from the game. It's one of the major reasons I think something isn't finished.

Indeed. ME may have narrative, but it's still a game, first and foremost. And the end... didn't feel like a traditional game at all.

[Icinix]

Elidor109 wrote...

Icinix wrote...

Hydralisk wrote...
TIM was going to be a boss fight, with him turning into a Reaper/Husk thing or something, but that was scrapped for the dialogue scene we got.

The one where you can fail.

Also - am I the only one who doesn't believe that TIM is indoctrinated?

I would laugh so hard if it turned out that I made TIM kill himself even though he wasn't really indoctrinated xD

It would be great - but if the ending doesn't happen because its all in Sheps head - I would not be surprised to see the Illusive Man make a return as an ally who may even sacrifice himself to end Shepards indoctrination or realise he is unable to control the Reapers.

[BigBossBoo]

Hydralisk.. I think you earned "best ME3 joke" with that sig.

[Sl4sh3r]

Interesting development:

I finished my game, yet some epilogue and conflicts etc are set to false.

The Catalyst variable is also set to false....

[Cyr8]

Guys, I don't want to rain on your parades on anything, but I feel this must be said. Maybe it's been said already in these 286 pages, but I feel that there's another possibility: that Bioware were flying by the seat of their pants and just made what they think is a satisfactory ending. The original script had a way different ending. But it was leaked, and the ending was found out. So, to save face, I think they just changed the ending, hired a random voice actor to play Star Child, and gave us 3 endings that they thought was good enough (the endings to seem kind of rushed). Maybe anticipating that fans would backlash, they made preemptive comments like "It's all about the journey not the destination" and "a lot of people are not going to be happy."

After the discovery of the old ending, they rushed to put together a new ending and still meet release, and this was the best they could do.

[Urumashi]

Icinix wrote...

Elidor109 wrote...

Icinix wrote...

Hydralisk wrote...
TIM was going to be a boss fight, with him turning into a Reaper/Husk thing or something, but that was scrapped for the dialogue scene we got.

The one where you can fail.

Also - am I the only one who doesn't believe that TIM is indoctrinated?

I would laugh so hard if it turned out that I made TIM kill himself even though he wasn't really indoctrinated xD

It would be great - but if the ending doesn't happen because its all in Sheps head - I would not be surprised to see the Illusive Man make a return as an ally who may even sacrifice himself to end Shepards indoctrination or realise he is unable to control the Reapers.

that is assuming that he's even alive at all, i'm willing to bet that with the number of points you can build up in the citadel defense force there may be a possiblity that upon arrival at the citadel you're greeted by a well armed milita who was just waiting for backup before going to retake the controll room. It would make a heck of a lot more sense then "and now, everyone is magicly dead."

[Omega Scythe]

BigBossBoo wrote...

Hydralisk.. I think you earned "best ME3 joke" with that sig.

It's both funny and sad when you can condense the ending to one of the greatest gaming trilogies of all time down into a Monty Python joke.  Bravo.

[Ravax]

Sierra163 wrote...

Ravax wrote...

Urumashi wrote...

Ravax wrote...

Dont know if this has been mentioned (too many pages) but i think this is the

SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT PIECE OF EVIDENCE as to why we havent 'finished the game yet':

WE DID NOT HAVE A BOSS FIGHT!!!!!!!!!

ME1: Saren
ME2: Human Reaper

ME3: wtf no choice straight line emotional flush down the pooper rage / table flip / hours on forums trying to find salvation.

yet another thing that had been bugging me, i had always passed it off as "well...mabye they just counted that huge wave of reaperspawn you had to fend off from the missles as such. But now that this whole indoctrination possibility has come to light that seems like a major bit of evidence

In regards to the huge wave of reaperspawn, we had similar in ME1 and ME2, let me extrapolate:

in ME1: Before getting into the council chamber for the final boss fight with Saren, you had to pass hoards of geth on the outer walls of the citadel.

in ME2: HOARDS of collector's and Harbinger's: Assuming direct control of the pawns... and on the flying platforms..

That huge wave of reaperspawns, was just as any other game should be, a difficult final corridor of fighting, leading to the ultimate boss fight...

This is one of the glaring things missing from the game. It's one of the major reasons I think something isn't finished.

Now that I have given my first post some more in depth thought.. it seems more and more likely, that the endings we have experienced in ME3, are like the cutscences we had in ME1 and ME2 after the fighting hoards, and right before the final bosses...

The conversation with TIM, and with the GC, and the final choice, are very linear, and seem to be merely an ILLUSION of us making choices, but are maybe in fact simply just an 'interactive' cutscene, before the final boss fight...

(PS. I would love this to be one of them: you wake up from indoctrination, JOKER swoops in a blows a 10meter hole on the side of Harbinger, and you realize what happened, get a surge of adrenaline, and rush INSIDE harbinger, wreak havoc on him from within, rip out his red eyes, assume control of him, and hook him up to the crucible/citadel, and finally kill him, which ultimately sends a 'death' signal to all reapers (as he is connected to them being the leader, etc...) and they all die, and then you jump from the explosion with your helmet on, and EDI is on the launching bay door of the Normandy, and pulls you in the ship.. followed by la-di-da happy ending smooching and celebrating all over the galaxy....

My name is RAVAX, and that would be my perfect ending!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Fatex3]

Well would you mind explaining what happened in the leaked ending? I've love to know what it was "going" to be in that case.

[TobiTobsen]

I'm back from my nap! Any important infos I missed on the last... uh... 70 pages?

[Leonia]

Icinix wrote...

Also - am I the only one who doesn't believe that TIM is indoctrinated?

/raises hand

It would be very convenient for Shepard to assume he is and all the points in the game where we thought TIM was being referred to as indoctrinated were actuallly referring to Shepard. I think it would be quite a twist. It seems too easy to think that Cerberus and TIM are the bad guys and have been all this time.

Javik and Vigil both talk about how the Reapers would use indoctrination to turn the organics on their own, maybe it has been done in this case as well and they have used Shepard's resentment of Cerberus to invent a convenient enemy to cover up the truth.

Modifié par leonia42, 13 mars 2012 - 08:44 .

[OneWithTheAssassins]

Cyr8 obviusly saw the first post and thought tl;dr and desided to post whatever the hell he wanted.

[The Bridgeburner]

TobiTobsen wrote...

I'm back from my nap! Any important infos I missed on the last... uh... 70 pages?

Not much, really. Just a lot of re-hashing of previous observations.

[Reptilian Rob]

Fatex3 wrote...

Well would you mind explaining what happened in the leaked ending? I've love to know what it was "going" to be in that case.

Reapers were originally created to stop the spread of dark matter, (thus why Tali was worried about the star in ME2) and they harvest species every 50,000 years to build a better army in hopes of stopping the dark matter spread.

Your choices would have been...

1. Ally with the Reapers to help them with the dark matter problem, sacrificing everything in order to help the future.

2. Destroy the Reapers, and find another way.

[Urumashi]

The Bridgeburner wrote...

TobiTobsen wrote...

I'm back from my nap! Any important infos I missed on the last... uh... 70 pages?

Not much, really. Just a lot of re-hashing of previous observations.

and monty python jokes

[Hedera]

leonia42 wrote...

Icinix wrote...

Also - am I the only one who doesn't believe that TIM is indoctrinated?

/raises hand

It would be very convenient for Shepard to assume he is and all the points in the game where we thought TIM was being referred to as indoctrinated were actuallly referring to Shepard. I think it would be quite a twist. It seems too easy to think that Cerberus and TIM are the bad guys and have been all this time. 

Which would throw all of us for a giant loop and make the TIM fans incredibly happy.

[locsphere]

I came to a similar conclusion. This is great, gives me hope and Bioware... If this is the case. Nicely played... I have to buy flowers and chocolates for my Girlfriend after yelling. "You just don't understand." and weeping like a sissy girl, but hey. I beat indoctrination. I did the right thing!

[The Bridgeburner]

Urumashi wrote...

The Bridgeburner wrote...

TobiTobsen wrote...

I'm back from my nap! Any important infos I missed on the last... uh... 70 pages?

Not much, really. Just a lot of re-hashing of previous observations.

and monty python jokes

lol. Can't forget those!

[SandTrout]

leonia42 wrote...

Icinix wrote...

Also - am I the only one who doesn't believe that TIM is indoctrinated?

/raises hand

It would be very convenient for Shepard to assume he is and all the points in the game where we thought TIM was being referred to as indoctrinated were actuallly referring to Shepard. I think it would be quite a twist. It seems too easy to think that Cerberus and TIM are the bad guys and have been all this time. 

Sorry, but even if TIM wasn't indoctrinated at the begining of ME3, by the end, his actions and behavior clearly mark him as indoctrinated (assuming that he was real).

[Urumashi]

Dear lord where did the hours go, s'gonna be a sleepy work day tomorrow, fight on, fight for the lost, hold the line and all that military jargon.

Keela selai

[Chatticus Maximus]

Here's something for the masses... (See what I did there ;P )

Okay, seriously though...

Here's another argument FOR Hallucination/Indoctrination, and naturally, apologies if this has already come up - but 286 pages is a bit much for me to get through.

Look at what happens to Shepard in BOTH Blue and Green forms... he HUSKIFIES! His face, body, hands, they all become one with the Reaper tech!

In my humble opinion, I believe the following.

1. BLUE ENDING (bad in this case, as we all agree), you 'control' the Reapers. This means your mind is still strong POST Indoctrination, which means you will be a useful asset -like Saren, or TIM or Rana Thanopsis (don't forget what she did, and she had close to bugger all as much time with Reaper tech as we did!)

2. GREEN ENDING - You're indoctrinated, through and through... you think you're doing something big and brave, but really, your mind is a mess, and you're actually a gibbering, drooling mess post high-order indoctrination mindwipe. You stumble down your merry way to the processing factory, where you 'synthesise'... and promptly get mushed up to become part of the grey goop for Reaper-hull.

3. RED (good!) ending. You beat the system, you fight off the shackles and say no to your defeat, you take that mental gun and defy all the Reapers have put before you... you wake up, battered, bruised, but NOT broken back in the rubble of a laser strike/indoctrination beam blast.

More importantly, in the RED choice, your body does not turn into a Husk.

Thoughts?

[daviddata1]

Well Bioware has always said that we should keep our mass effect 3 saves. Why do they say that if they not plan to continue the story somehow?