57139 réponses à ce sujet

[Icinix]

adrianlocke647 wrote...

Grizzly2O wrote...

What's this whole 1m1 thing again?

A label to the left of your path on the final Citadel sequence reads "1M1". On the right, it is mirrored exactly, so that the 1's are backwards.

Don't read too much into it. Just an oddity, until proven otherwise. Interesting bit, nonetheless.

Its particularly interesting for two reasons -

One) There shouldn't be english language markings in that part of the cidatel.

Two) The developers actually had to flip the texture for that affect. Creating a new texture specific.

Do we know if it appears anyone else in the games?

[wryterra]

Icinix wrote...

adrianlocke647 wrote...

Grizzly2O wrote...

What's this whole 1m1 thing again?

A label to the left of your path on the final Citadel sequence reads "1M1". On the right, it is mirrored exactly, so that the 1's are backwards.

Don't read too much into it. Just an oddity, until proven otherwise. Interesting bit, nonetheless.

Its particularly interesting for two reasons -

One) There shouldn't be english language markings in that part of the cidatel.

Two) The developers actually had to flip the texture for that affect. Creating a new texture specific.

Do we know if it appears anyone else in the games?

The devs didn't have to flip the texture at all, I'm afraid. When applying textures you can simply apply a -1 horizontal scale to the texture and it appears reversed. 

[Kioux]

BigBossBoo wrote...

Kioux wrote...

*snip*
Then there is the thing with TIMs appearance - only a few hours before hitting earth, he seemed to look somewhat normal but on the Citadel he was so obviously changed that it seemed odd. Additionally - the vid at the Cerberus base - the last entry, moments where he supposedly got the implants... it is the only time where he seems actively aware of the camera and shuts it off. I can't pinpoint why this is bothering me but it is.Almost seems like a hint, or a call for help. There has been some moments when he actually seems... empathic? understanding? supporting? with Shepard. Maybe I'm reading too much into it - as if he is trying to warn Shepard without obviously doing so.
Anyway, thanks a lot for the input on Anderson, the black fog, and a lot of the other implications on the theory, it does help to cope with the ending atrocities. And if we actually get a 'real ending' DLC - it would just help everyone. Those who like the endings as they are could stick with them and those of us who want happy endings, the LI at the side and the look at my first Krogan godchild would finally be able to sleep with a smile again instead of clawing into the hope of having figured out the great cue behind those... those poor excuses.... Nyar!

Maybe TIM is being indoctrinated between ME2 and throughout ME3 because of the reaper heart/brain.  However TIM is trying to fight it off, due to his resolve to help humanity and strong will.  He may have even been fighting it earlier than ME2 as Javik said "every cycle has someone who wants to control the reapers."  Maybe he was pushing Shepard in the smaller ways as defiance to his indoctrination but couldn't fully beat it.

That would actually be something I'd like. Having TIM not being the total SOB I always thought he would be. That could also be a reason why he stopped Miranda from implanting the chip in the first place.... but then again, why would he resurrect Shepard if he was already partially indoctrintaed? Well - unless of course, the Reapers were hoping to use Shepard as a symbol of their own - either have him/her join them - after all, he did kill Sovereign and left an impression and it could have been something worth "preserving" or to kill him again to break morale of all those opposing... nuh, nevermind that. Though... the Lazarus project lasted 2 years - so the inital idea of getting Shepard back and him being indoctrinated could be a while apart. No, no, now my mind is just become some messed up maze.

See what you do to me, BW?

[Dougremer]

MisterNugNug wrote...

RemorseLessXx wrote...



If you have not seen this video please go watch it and its a good point. This guy might be right because it does make a lot of sense in my eyes.

Also this one is a little more detailed.

Okay lets say Bioware tried to be clever with the ending.  Where does that Leave US?  We still don't have a definitive end to the story.  Are they going to release the REAL endings via DLC?  Paid DLC?  WE have to pay more money to access the endings?  If Shep really is alive, why end the game at that point?  Why not make that whole sequence a test?  If Bioware needed more time to incorporate the TRUE endings, why not delay the release of the game?  

Well then you might say well, Bioware will get flack for delaying the game.  Well if it makes a better end product, fans won't complain.  What we have now is a majority of the fanbase who's left in limbo now because they're incredibly sour and outraged over the endings present in the game and now have to wait yet again (and perhaps fork over more money) to see a definitive end to their Sheppard's story.  

If we need to pay for it, that would suck. BUT if not, this might be the coolest thing ever done in a videogame. Why? Cause it's never been done before. If they do this we are being a part of video game history! And that my friend is a thrilling thought.

[Grizzly2O]

What's the significance of the whole 1m1 thing though?

[Icinix]

wryterra wrote...

Icinix wrote...

adrianlocke647 wrote...

Grizzly2O wrote...

What's this whole 1m1 thing again?

A label to the left of your path on the final Citadel sequence reads "1M1". On the right, it is mirrored exactly, so that the 1's are backwards.

Don't read too much into it. Just an oddity, until proven otherwise. Interesting bit, nonetheless.

Its particularly interesting for two reasons -

One) There shouldn't be english language markings in that part of the cidatel.

Two) The developers actually had to flip the texture for that affect. Creating a new texture specific.

Do we know if it appears anyone else in the games?

The devs didn't have to flip the texture at all, I'm afraid. When applying textures you can simply apply a -1 horizontal scale to the texture and it appears reversed. 

They still had to do it in the first place.

I don't recall seeing any flipped textures like that anywhere else in the game.

[Kioux]

LadyofRivendell wrote...

BigBossBoo wrote...

Maybe TIM is being indoctrinated between ME2 and throughout ME3 because of the reaper heart/brain.  However TIM is trying to fight it off, due to his resolve to help humanity and strong will.  He may have even been fighting it earlier than ME2 as Javik said "every cycle has someone who wants to control the reapers."  Maybe he was pushing Shepard in the smaller ways as defiance to his indoctrination but couldn't fully beat it.

Although, I noticed earlier while on my second run that TIM already has the black husk-like markings on the corners of his face during the conversation on Mars. Yet I didn't notice them on my first game, maybe because I wasn't looking... Odd, I'll keep up on watching this as I continue playing.

Just quickly before I'm going for a nap:
I noticed that too - though I honestly don't know if it was an issue with the graphics or actually there. Then again, whenever he shows up in his lovely little projection, he doesn't have the marks at all. So the question is - is TIM always TIM? Or does it maybe depend on the decision whether to keep the base or not?

Grizzly2O wrote...

What's the significance of the whole 1m1 thing though?

I think the point is that 1m1 is a very human letter/number writing thing - and while that would normally not be an issue but it is found on a part of the citadel that has never been accessed by organic life and is as old as the Citadel itself. So it is a somewhat good point, especially since they did put some effort into showing other language symbols for the other races.

Modifié par Kioux, 13 mars 2012 - 10:15 .

[Tygur]

Got a feeling the 1M1 thing is insignificant. Different numbers and things have been textured all over the normandy ship in all of the games, mirrored and everything. Don't read too much into it. I've seen some game engines mirror textures without needing extra input also. Its just them recycling resources. Look around the ship elevator edges and things in the first game for example.

Modifié par Tygur, 13 mars 2012 - 10:14 .

[Dougremer]

Kioux wrote...

BigBossBoo wrote...

Kioux wrote...

*snip*
Then there is the thing with TIMs appearance - only a few hours before hitting earth, he seemed to look somewhat normal but on the Citadel he was so obviously changed that it seemed odd. Additionally - the vid at the Cerberus base - the last entry, moments where he supposedly got the implants... it is the only time where he seems actively aware of the camera and shuts it off. I can't pinpoint why this is bothering me but it is.Almost seems like a hint, or a call for help. There has been some moments when he actually seems... empathic? understanding? supporting? with Shepard. Maybe I'm reading too much into it - as if he is trying to warn Shepard without obviously doing so.
Anyway, thanks a lot for the input on Anderson, the black fog, and a lot of the other implications on the theory, it does help to cope with the ending atrocities. And if we actually get a 'real ending' DLC - it would just help everyone. Those who like the endings as they are could stick with them and those of us who want happy endings, the LI at the side and the look at my first Krogan godchild would finally be able to sleep with a smile again instead of clawing into the hope of having figured out the great cue behind those... those poor excuses.... Nyar!

Maybe TIM is being indoctrinated between ME2 and throughout ME3 because of the reaper heart/brain.  However TIM is trying to fight it off, due to his resolve to help humanity and strong will.  He may have even been fighting it earlier than ME2 as Javik said "every cycle has someone who wants to control the reapers."  Maybe he was pushing Shepard in the smaller ways as defiance to his indoctrination but couldn't fully beat it.

That would actually be something I'd like. Having TIM not being the total SOB I always thought he would be. That could also be a reason why he stopped Miranda from implanting the chip in the first place.... but then again, why would he resurrect Shepard if he was already partially indoctrintaed? Well - unless of course, the Reapers were hoping to use Shepard as a symbol of their own - either have him/her join them - after all, he did kill Sovereign and left an impression and it could have been something worth "preserving" or to kill him again to break morale of all those opposing... nuh, nevermind that. Though... the Lazarus project lasted 2 years - so the inital idea of getting Shepard back and him being indoctrinated could be a while apart. No, no, now my mind is just become some messed up maze.

See what you do to me, BW?

Or maybe TIM resurrect Shepard to save TIM from being indoctrinated. Damn, that would be something.
That's why TIM wants the reaper tech and when it finally gets over his head he can't controll himself anymore.

/D

[J4N3_M3]

as for Saren/TIM indoctrination: as far as I understand indoctrination it is about influencing someone without their knowledge. The best way to do it is to support their wishes to the point of them being so convinced they are different and therefore resisting indoctrination that once they realize that they have been indoctrinated all along it is too late. Saren wanted to save the galaxy by working WITH the Reapers. They let him believe that they ARE working with him. TIM wanted to evolve humanity by controlling the Reapers. They let him believe that they ARE being controlled by him. Both realize too late that they have been indoctrinated from the start and it takes a lot for both of them to eventually kill themselves and break free from indoctrination. Though I believe that the Reapers were playing the entire Anderson/TIM scene in Shep's head while Shep was watching trying to figure out what's going on. Anderson represented Shep's voice of reason that destruction is the only way. TIM is the Reaper's indoctrination voice trying to convince Shepard that control is the only way. Shep silences both voices. Anderson by shooting him because TIM got the upper hand. Then TIM by making him shoot himself (in my playthrough) because Shepard still tries to resist the indoctrination. The Catalyst shows up as one last attempt to make Shepard see how destruction is the absolutely wrong choice. Shepard has never worked with the Reapers nor has (s)he considered controlling them OR merging organics with synthetics. Shepard's entire mission throughout the previous two games AND ME3 was to STOP the Reapers. Telling Shep that destruction is BAD is a weak attempt from the Reapers to stop Shepard and maybe turning him/her towards the other two options. It's trying to plant doubt in Shepard's head that destruction is wrong. Has been wrong all along. So they present two different options with which they could control Shepard like they controlled Saren and TIM.

[IhateEA-Mask]

FOR EVERYONE WONDERING ABOUT COLLECTOR BASE:

Saving or destroying collector base determines whether your default ending is destroy or control if you don't have enough war assets.

[KimGulch]

I just had a thought that may be reaching a bit to much, but I went on youtube and listened to the music from when Shep talks to the Catalyst, and I'm getting this weird feeling that it may be a soft, dreamy version of the Reaper theme...

[IronSabbath88]

Okay, so after a bit of thinking. I came up with some points that to me, make this theory a given. I'm sure some of them have been mentioned before, some may have not. Anyways, here goes.

First and foremost, the mass relays. If they were to blow up, would any system survive? We all know what happened when a Mass Relay exploded in Arrival. Would there even be an Earth or "Eden Planet" left? It's not very likely considering EVERY relay apparently goes kaboom.

Someone already mentioned this, but how come when we talked to TIM on the Cerberus base, he looked perfectly normal from what I saw. Then we when see him later he's completley different looking.. why the change so suddenly? But this one could probably be the easiest to explain.. still.. strikes me as odd.

Another thing, your squadmates. Specifically the ones you took with you on Earth. Even if they DID get out somehow, how come on the crash landing planet they look absolutely golden? After all that fighting AND being hit by a reaper beam, you mean to tell me they look like roses? Not a chance. Some may argue that "What if you got squadmates who you didn't take with you?" and to that I say, do you think that your squadmates did nothing? They all helped in the fight somehow, there's no way in hell all of them look perfectly normal like they weren't in any kind of battle.

Furthermore, why in the HELL would Ashley, Kaidan and James abandon Earth? Especially James. There's no way they'd stop fighting just because the Normandy comes to pick them up. That's their homeworld too, and they'd fight to the end for it. I highly doubt Tali and Garrus would abandon their people either.

Has anyone also considered how the Normandy landed in the middle of a war zone to pick everyone up? Yeah, not likely.

And probably the most telling sign for me.. listen closely to the cutscene where Shepard takes a breath.. you can hear some sort of noise in the background that sounds like a reaper.. a lot like a reaper. The fight is still happening.

I'm totally certain this is fact.

[CptData]

OP: Although I support the theory you wrote down with others, I think it's kinda grasping for straws. I dunno ... some make sense, others ... yeah, no idea.

Things -definitely- supporting the theory are:

- if Shepard survives, how does s/he return to Earth?
The Citadel explodes in the destruction ending. Now, unless the Kid teleported Shep back to Earth (which wouldn't make much sense), there's only one other explanation: Shepard never LEFT Earth. That is already stated in the OP.

- The Normandy's escape & teleporting crewmembers. What's the most important thing in Shepard's "fooked up" life? His/her new found family and home - which is the Normandy and her crew. Shepard is so attached to that ship, that s/he tries to find a way to save that ship and her crew, that explains the more or less bettersweet ending here. The Normandy crashes on a perfect world after pulled out of a jump ... the chances for that are less than 1:1,000,000,000,000,000 ... so to speak.
Shepard doesn't want to believe his/her ship got destroyed - and therefore, sent her away to ensure the Normandy & crew survives.
Joker + the two most important crewmates (including a LI that's also on board) leave the Normandy - so Shepard sees the three most important faces alive.
That's a quite comforting thought for someone who's in his/her dying moments ... to ensure his/her friends are still there.
Teleporting Shepard's final squad to the Normandy (even if they got killed) ensures Shepard will find comfort too.

In short: Shepard suffers heavy escapism ... like we did in that amazing trilogy. C'mon ... those who're most invested in the characters also developed some form of escapism. It's not that bad - 

Modifié par CptData, 13 mars 2012 - 10:22 .

[Dougremer]

J4N3_M3 wrote...

as for Saren/TIM indoctrination: as far as I understand indoctrination it is about influencing someone without their knowledge. The best way to do it is to support their wishes to the point of them being so convinced they are different and therefore resisting indoctrination that once they realize that they have been indoctrinated all along it is too late. Saren wanted to save the galaxy by working WITH the Reapers. They let him believe that they ARE working with him. TIM wanted to evolve humanity by controlling the Reapers. They let him believe that they ARE being controlled by him. Both realize too late that they have been indoctrinated from the start and it takes a lot for both of them to eventually kill themselves and break free from indoctrination. Though I believe that the Reapers were playing the entire Anderson/TIM scene in Shep's head while Shep was watching trying to figure out what's going on. Anderson represented Shep's voice of reason that destruction is the only way. TIM is the Reaper's indoctrination voice trying to convince Shepard that control is the only way. Shep silences both voices. Anderson by shooting him because TIM got the upper hand. Then TIM by making him shoot himself (in my playthrough) because Shepard still tries to resist the indoctrination. The Catalyst shows up as one last attempt to make Shepard see how destruction is the absolutely wrong choice. Shepard has never worked with the Reapers nor has (s)he considered controlling them OR merging organics with synthetics. Shepard's entire mission throughout the previous two games AND ME3 was to STOP the Reapers. Telling Shep that destruction is BAD is a weak attempt from the Reapers to stop Shepard and maybe turning him/her towards the other two options. It's trying to plant doubt in Shepard's head that destruction is wrong. Has been wrong all along. So they present two different options with which they could control Shepard like they controlled Saren and TIM.

That sums it up, we are done here! ;D
This is my thought exactly.

[Thanatia]

bioware told us they would not do any "post-ending" DLC, but it's THIS is not the real ending... ahh semantics

[Mallechai]

lookingglassmind wrote...

lil_89 wrote...

Um, guys, has anyone else noticed that in some cases there is only ONE choise?? At the end, the godchild ONLY gives shep one option... the destroy one.
look at this vid:www.youtube.com/watch

When and why does this happen?? I had all the three choices explained to me + the whole "most of your technology will be destroyed", while this Shep + other vids i found only have the one.. What the hell`?

Guys, this is actually terribly important.

OP: the amount of choices that you have is related to your EMS. The more EMS you have, the more choices you have.

But this brings up an important thought... why WOULD Destroy ever be presented as your only option? And, why is Synthesis the one hardest to get? I know this has been brought up before, but I have yet to see a convincing explanation for Synthesis. I feel, in my gut, that Synthesis means more than this thread has explored. I think understanding Synthesis is key in understanding the endings in full. Maybe the ME series.

But no-one seems able to touch it yet. I wish I had more ME1 lore knowledge, but I'm working on it. Tech singularity is important to this case.

Just my 2 cents on the issue,

Personally i believe that EMS is very much intertwined with the reapers goal. With extremely low EMS you only get the option to Destroy, as this cycle's military doesnt pose a threat to the reapers and shephards influence is determined to be irrelevant.
If your EMS is a bit higher, control is unlocked. this cycle poses a challange to the reaper and the reapers determine that a symbiosis with shephard (the strongest of this cycle and the reason for the challange) might be beneficial.
At the hightest EMS synthesis unlockes, this cycles military is on even footing with the reapers and its determined that synthesis is preferable to make the reapers even stronger then before by anexing the entire cycle into them.

[J4N3_M3]

IronSabbath88 wrote...

Someone already mentioned this, but how come when we talked to TIM on the Cerberus base, he looked perfectly normal from what I saw. Then we when see him later he's completley different looking.. why the change so suddenly? But this one could probably be the easiest to explain.. still.. strikes me as odd.

I actually thought that it was pretty obvious during was it the TIM-base-mission? as one of the video logs showed that TIM was getting things surgically implanted talking to this one scientist. From the discussion both had I always figured that TIM was giong for Reaper tech implants because he was certain he could control the Reapers. 

[MisterNugNug]

Dougremer wrote...

MisterNugNug wrote...

RemorseLessXx wrote...



If you have not seen this video please go watch it and its a good point. This guy might be right because it does make a lot of sense in my eyes.

Also this one is a little more detailed.

Okay lets say Bioware tried to be clever with the ending.  Where does that Leave US?  We still don't have a definitive end to the story.  Are they going to release the REAL endings via DLC?  Paid DLC?  WE have to pay more money to access the endings?  If Shep really is alive, why end the game at that point?  Why not make that whole sequence a test?  If Bioware needed more time to incorporate the TRUE endings, why not delay the release of the game?  

Well then you might say well, Bioware will get flack for delaying the game.  Well if it makes a better end product, fans won't complain.  What we have now is a majority of the fanbase who's left in limbo now because they're incredibly sour and outraged over the endings present in the game and now have to wait yet again (and perhaps fork over more money) to see a definitive end to their Sheppard's story.  

If we need to pay for it, that would suck. BUT if not, this might be the coolest thing ever done in a videogame. Why? Cause it's never been done before. If they do this we are being a part of video game history! And that my friend is a thrilling thought.

?

If you want to be a part of history, be my guest.  I (and many others)  just want to have an ending to my (our) story, a story three games in the making.  Are you really suggesting that the endings are really just placeholders for the time being?  The fanbase reaction to these endings is getting pretty intense, the hatred is pretty palpable.  

You're really happy to wait for some undefined amount of time for DLC endings?  Seriously?

[J4N3_M3]

Mallechai wrote...

lookingglassmind wrote...

lil_89 wrote...

Um, guys, has anyone else noticed that in some cases there is only ONE choise?? At the end, the godchild ONLY gives shep one option... the destroy one.
look at this vid:www.youtube.com/watch

When and why does this happen?? I had all the three choices explained to me + the whole "most of your technology will be destroyed", while this Shep + other vids i found only have the one.. What the hell`?

Guys, this is actually terribly important.

OP: the amount of choices that you have is related to your EMS. The more EMS you have, the more choices you have.

But this brings up an important thought... why WOULD Destroy ever be presented as your only option? And, why is Synthesis the one hardest to get? I know this has been brought up before, but I have yet to see a convincing explanation for Synthesis. I feel, in my gut, that Synthesis means more than this thread has explored. I think understanding Synthesis is key in understanding the endings in full. Maybe the ME series.

But no-one seems able to touch it yet. I wish I had more ME1 lore knowledge, but I'm working on it. Tech singularity is important to this case.

Just my 2 cents on the issue,

Personally i believe that EMS is very much intertwined with the reapers goal. With extremely low EMS you only get the option to Destroy, as this cycle's military doesnt pose a threat to the reapers and shephards influence is determined to be irrelevant.
If your EMS is a bit higher, control is unlocked. this cycle poses a challange to the reaper and the reapers determine that a symbiosis with shephard (the strongest of this cycle and the reason for the challange) might be beneficial.
At the hightest EMS synthesis unlockes, this cycles military is on even footing with the reapers and its determined that synthesis is preferable to make the reapers even stronger then before by anexing the entire cycle into them.

Actually I would say that it's more like, the more you hurry to destroy the Reapers, the less time you spend with them trying to influence you. Just a thought on my end xD 

[holyshock18]

Thanatia wrote...

bioware told us they would not do any "post-ending" DLC, but it's THIS is not the real ending... ahh semantics

When did they say that?

[IronSabbath88]

J4N3_M3 wrote...

IronSabbath88 wrote...

Someone already mentioned this, but how come when we talked to TIM on the Cerberus base, he looked perfectly normal from what I saw. Then we when see him later he's completley different looking.. why the change so suddenly? But this one could probably be the easiest to explain.. still.. strikes me as odd.

I actually thought that it was pretty obvious during was it the TIM-base-mission? as one of the video logs showed that TIM was getting things surgically implanted talking to this one scientist. From the discussion both had I always figured that TIM was giong for Reaper tech implants because he was certain he could control the Reapers. 

Like I said, that's probably the easiest one to explain. My other points are pretty hard to comprehend though.

[astrophyzcs]

This thread and the theories therein have tentatively restored my faith, enough that I actually started my NG+ run today. YOU'RE MY ONLY HOPE, BSN. 

Modifié par astrophyzcs, 13 mars 2012 - 10:28 .

[Dougremer]

KimGulch wrote...

I just had a thought that may be reaching a bit to much, but I went on youtube and listened to the music from when Shep talks to the Catalyst, and I'm getting this weird feeling that it may be a soft, dreamy version of the Reaper theme...

WOW! I thought about it as well. It is correct I think. During the credits they play the same song but with reaper like sounds in it. Could be something as well.
Since I haven't reached the breathing scene I can't tell if they play that song as well after that ending.

/D

[CptData]

astrophyzcs wrote...

This thread and the theories therein have tentatively restored my faith, enough that I actually started my NG+ run today. YOU'RE MY ONLY HOPE, BSN. 

Kinda. At least I can rewrite my headcanon so Shepard survives and can see another day with his LI - without being screwed for all time.