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holyshock18 wrote...
Thanatia wrote...
bioware told us they would not do any "post-ending" DLC, but it's THIS is not the real ending... ahh semantics
When did they say that?
KimGulch wrote...
I just had a thought that may be reaching a bit to much, but I went on youtube and listened to the music from when Shep talks to the Catalyst, and I'm getting this weird feeling that it may be a soft, dreamy version of the Reaper theme...
J4N3_M3 wrote...
Mallechai wrote...
lookingglassmind wrote...
lil_89 wrote...
Um, guys, has anyone else noticed that in some cases there is only ONE choise?? At the end, the godchild ONLY gives shep one option... the destroy one.
look at this vid:www.youtube.com/watch
When and why does this happen?? I had all the three choices explained to me + the whole "most of your technology will be destroyed", while this Shep + other vids i found only have the one.. What the hell`?
Guys, this is actually terribly important.
OP: the amount of choices that you have is related to your EMS. The more EMS you have, the more choices you have.
But this brings up an important thought... why WOULD Destroy ever be presented as your only option? And, why is Synthesis the one hardest to get? I know this has been brought up before, but I have yet to see a convincing explanation for Synthesis. I feel, in my gut, that Synthesis means more than this thread has explored. I think understanding Synthesis is key in understanding the endings in full. Maybe the ME series.
But no-one seems able to touch it yet. I wish I had more ME1 lore knowledge, but I'm working on it. Tech singularity is important to this case.
Just my 2 cents on the issue,
Personally i believe that EMS is very much intertwined with the reapers goal. With extremely low EMS you only get the option to Destroy, as this cycle's military doesnt pose a threat to the reapers and shephards influence is determined to be irrelevant.
If your EMS is a bit higher, control is unlocked. this cycle poses a challange to the reaper and the reapers determine that a symbiosis with shephard (the strongest of this cycle and the reason for the challange) might be beneficial.
At the hightest EMS synthesis unlockes, this cycles military is on even footing with the reapers and its determined that synthesis is preferable to make the reapers even stronger then before by anexing the entire cycle into them.
Actually I would say that it's more like, the more you hurry to destroy the Reapers, the less time you spend with them trying to influence you. Just a thought on my end xD
but that assumes that they only started trying to influence shephard from the start of this episode if you assume, they started at the begining of saren the 2 extra weeks (or however long the difference is) of gathering forces should be minimal.
J4N3_M3 wrote...
as for Saren/TIM indoctrination: as far as I understand indoctrination it is about influencing someone without their knowledge. The best way to do it is to support their wishes to the point of them being so convinced they are different and therefore resisting indoctrination that once they realize that they have been indoctrinated all along it is too late. Saren wanted to save the galaxy by working WITH the Reapers. They let him believe that they ARE working with him. TIM wanted to evolve humanity by controlling the Reapers. They let him believe that they ARE being controlled by him. Both realize too late that they have been indoctrinated from the start and it takes a lot for both of them to eventually kill themselves and break free from indoctrination. Though I believe that the Reapers were playing the entire Anderson/TIM scene in Shep's head while Shep was watching trying to figure out what's going on. Anderson represented Shep's voice of reason that destruction is the only way. TIM is the Reaper's indoctrination voice trying to convince Shepard that control is the only way. Shep silences both voices. Anderson by shooting him because TIM got the upper hand. Then TIM by making him shoot himself (in my playthrough) because Shepard still tries to resist the indoctrination. The Catalyst shows up as one last attempt to make Shepard see how destruction is the absolutely wrong choice. Shepard has never worked with the Reapers nor has (s)he considered controlling them OR merging organics with synthetics. Shepard's entire mission throughout the previous two games AND ME3 was to STOP the Reapers. Telling Shep that destruction is BAD is a weak attempt from the Reapers to stop Shepard and maybe turning him/her towards the other two options. It's trying to plant doubt in Shepard's head that destruction is wrong. Has been wrong all along. So they present two different options with which they could control Shepard like they controlled Saren and TIM.
Modifié par MisterNugNug, 13 mars 2012 - 10:33 .
Thanatia wrote...
holyshock18 wrote...
Thanatia wrote...
bioware told us they would not do any "post-ending" DLC, but it's THIS is not the real ending... ahh semantics
When did they say that?
I didn't search for it on twitter or facebook but lots of people posting here related something like that posted by bioware
so nothing post ending but a real ending, "one last story about the shepard"
Mallechai wrote...
J4N3_M3 wrote...
Mallechai wrote...
Just my 2 cents on the issue,
Personally i believe that EMS is very much intertwined with the reapers goal. With extremely low EMS you only get the option to Destroy, as this cycle's military doesnt pose a threat to the reapers and shephards influence is determined to be irrelevant.
If your EMS is a bit higher, control is unlocked. this cycle poses a challange to the reaper and the reapers determine that a symbiosis with shephard (the strongest of this cycle and the reason for the challange) might be beneficial.
At the hightest EMS synthesis unlockes, this cycles military is on even footing with the reapers and its determined that synthesis is preferable to make the reapers even stronger then before by anexing the entire cycle into them.
Actually I would say that it's more like, the more you hurry to destroy the Reapers, the less time you spend with them trying to influence you. Just a thought on my end xD
yeah true
As is described in the base of the illusive man on indoctrination is that as long you are exposed to the nanites you slowly become indoctrinated, and we have been exposed to a lot of reapers and their minions over time
MisterNugNug wrote...
J4N3_M3 wrote...
as for Saren/TIM indoctrination: as far as I understand indoctrination it is about influencing someone without their knowledge. The best way to do it is to support their wishes to the point of them being so convinced they are different and therefore resisting indoctrination that once they realize that they have been indoctrinated all along it is too late. Saren wanted to save the galaxy by working WITH the Reapers. They let him believe that they ARE working with him. TIM wanted to evolve humanity by controlling the Reapers. They let him believe that they ARE being controlled by him. Both realize too late that they have been indoctrinated from the start and it takes a lot for both of them to eventually kill themselves and break free from indoctrination. Though I believe that the Reapers were playing the entire Anderson/TIM scene in Shep's head while Shep was watching trying to figure out what's going on. Anderson represented Shep's voice of reason that destruction is the only way. TIM is the Reaper's indoctrination voice trying to convince Shepard that control is the only way. Shep silences both voices. Anderson by shooting him because TIM got the upper hand. Then TIM by making him shoot himself (in my playthrough) because Shepard still tries to resist the indoctrination. The Catalyst shows up as one last attempt to make Shepard see how destruction is the absolutely wrong choice. Shepard has never worked with the Reapers nor has (s)he considered controlling them OR merging organics with synthetics. Shepard's entire mission throughout the previous two games AND ME3 was to STOP the Reapers. Telling Shep that destruction is BAD is a weak attempt from the Reapers to stop Shepard and maybe turning him/her towards the other two options. It's trying to plant doubt in Shepard's head that destruction is wrong. Has been wrong all along. So they present two different options with which they could control Shepard like they controlled Saren and TIM.
????
The Prothean VI that you have to retrieve that contains the information about the Catalyst can detect wether an organic accessing it or is within its immediate vicinity is underthe influence of Indoctrination.
AT NO POINT DOES THE PROTHEAN VI DETECT OR IS ALARMED AT SHEPPARD'S PRESENCE. In Thessia when Kai Leng shows up, the VI actually informs you that an individual under the influence of Indoctrination is arriving.
MisterNugNug wrote...
J4N3_M3 wrote...
as for Saren/TIM indoctrination: as far as I understand indoctrination it is about influencing someone without their knowledge. The best way to do it is to support their wishes to the point of them being so convinced they are different and therefore resisting indoctrination that once they realize that they have been indoctrinated all along it is too late. Saren wanted to save the galaxy by working WITH the Reapers. They let him believe that they ARE working with him. TIM wanted to evolve humanity by controlling the Reapers. They let him believe that they ARE being controlled by him. Both realize too late that they have been indoctrinated from the start and it takes a lot for both of them to eventually kill themselves and break free from indoctrination. Though I believe that the Reapers were playing the entire Anderson/TIM scene in Shep's head while Shep was watching trying to figure out what's going on. Anderson represented Shep's voice of reason that destruction is the only way. TIM is the Reaper's indoctrination voice trying to convince Shepard that control is the only way. Shep silences both voices. Anderson by shooting him because TIM got the upper hand. Then TIM by making him shoot himself (in my playthrough) because Shepard still tries to resist the indoctrination. The Catalyst shows up as one last attempt to make Shepard see how destruction is the absolutely wrong choice. Shepard has never worked with the Reapers nor has (s)he considered controlling them OR merging organics with synthetics. Shepard's entire mission throughout the previous two games AND ME3 was to STOP the Reapers. Telling Shep that destruction is BAD is a weak attempt from the Reapers to stop Shepard and maybe turning him/her towards the other two options. It's trying to plant doubt in Shepard's head that destruction is wrong. Has been wrong all along. So they present two different options with which they could control Shepard like they controlled Saren and TIM.
????
The Prothean VI that you have to retrieve that contains the information about the Catalyst can detect wether an organic accessing it or is within its immediate vicinity is underthe influence of Indoctrination.
AT NO POINT DOES THE PROTHEAN VI DETECT OR IS ALARMED AT SHEPPARD'S PRESENCE. In Thessia when Kai Leng shows up, the VI actually informs you that an individual under the influence of Indoctrination is arriving.
Modifié par lex0r11, 13 mars 2012 - 10:36 .
MisterNugNug wrote...
????
The Prothean VI that you have to retrieve that contains the information about the Catalyst can detect wether an organic accessing it or is within its immediate vicinity is underthe influence of Indoctrination.
AT NO POINT DOES THE PROTHEAN VI DETECT OR IS ALARMED AT SHEPPARD'S PRESENCE. In Thessia when Kai Leng shows up, the VI actually informs you that an individual under the influence of Indoctrination is arriving.
J4N3_M3 wrote...
MisterNugNug wrote...
J4N3_M3 wrote...
as for Saren/TIM indoctrination: as far as I understand indoctrination it is about influencing someone without their knowledge. The best way to do it is to support their wishes to the point of them being so convinced they are different and therefore resisting indoctrination that once they realize that they have been indoctrinated all along it is too late. Saren wanted to save the galaxy by working WITH the Reapers. They let him believe that they ARE working with him. TIM wanted to evolve humanity by controlling the Reapers. They let him believe that they ARE being controlled by him. Both realize too late that they have been indoctrinated from the start and it takes a lot for both of them to eventually kill themselves and break free from indoctrination. Though I believe that the Reapers were playing the entire Anderson/TIM scene in Shep's head while Shep was watching trying to figure out what's going on. Anderson represented Shep's voice of reason that destruction is the only way. TIM is the Reaper's indoctrination voice trying to convince Shepard that control is the only way. Shep silences both voices. Anderson by shooting him because TIM got the upper hand. Then TIM by making him shoot himself (in my playthrough) because Shepard still tries to resist the indoctrination. The Catalyst shows up as one last attempt to make Shepard see how destruction is the absolutely wrong choice. Shepard has never worked with the Reapers nor has (s)he considered controlling them OR merging organics with synthetics. Shepard's entire mission throughout the previous two games AND ME3 was to STOP the Reapers. Telling Shep that destruction is BAD is a weak attempt from the Reapers to stop Shepard and maybe turning him/her towards the other two options. It's trying to plant doubt in Shepard's head that destruction is wrong. Has been wrong all along. So they present two different options with which they could control Shepard like they controlled Saren and TIM.
????
The Prothean VI that you have to retrieve that contains the information about the Catalyst can detect wether an organic accessing it or is within its immediate vicinity is underthe influence of Indoctrination.
AT NO POINT DOES THE PROTHEAN VI DETECT OR IS ALARMED AT SHEPPARD'S PRESENCE. In Thessia when Kai Leng shows up, the VI actually informs you that an individual under the influence of Indoctrination is arriving.
yeah but Kai Leng was indoctrinated. His indoctrination was finished. Shep's indoctrination wasn't finished at that point.
Modifié par Icinix, 13 mars 2012 - 10:37 .
MisterNugNug wrote...
The Prothean VI that you have to retrieve that contains the information about the Catalyst can detect wether an organic accessing it or is within its immediate vicinity is underthe influence of Indoctrination.
AT NO POINT DOES THE PROTHEAN VI DETECT SHEPPARD'S POSSIBLE INDOCTRINATION OR IS ALARMED AT SHEPPARD'S PRESENCE. In Thessia when Kai Leng shows up, the VI actually informs you that an individual under the influence of Indoctrination is arriving.
yuhime wrote...
Yes, but there is one thing that makes me confused. When you talk to the prothean VI on Tessia it doesn't recognize Shepard as indoctrinated one but Kai Leng. It says "presence of indoctrinated", or something like that, when Kai Leng shows up. Don't you think it would recognize Shepard as a threat as well?
Tygur wrote...
Got a feeling the 1M1 thing is insignificant. Different numbers and things have been textured all over the normandy ship in all of the games, mirrored and everything. Don't read too much into it. I've seen some game engines mirror textures without needing extra input also. Its just them recycling resources. Look around the ship elevator edges and things in the first game for example.
Kioux wrote...
MisterNugNug wrote...
The Prothean VI that you have to retrieve that contains the information about the Catalyst can detect wether an organic accessing it or is within its immediate vicinity is underthe influence of Indoctrination.
AT NO POINT DOES THE PROTHEAN VI DETECT SHEPPARD'S POSSIBLE INDOCTRINATION OR IS ALARMED AT SHEPPARD'S PRESENCE. In Thessia when Kai Leng shows up, the VI actually informs you that an individual under the influence of Indoctrination is arriving.
That is actually a good point - but then again, nobody has been like Shepard - considering resurrection, the Cipher and so on. It's not much of a theory but maybe it does help explain it, I suppose that depends on a bit good will.
However - there is one thing though, EDI is - as far as I understood it - partially based on Reaper code, yes? So, wouldn't she be considered indoctrinated as well in the presence of Vendetta?
Kioux wrote...
KimGulch wrote...
I just had a thought that may be reaching a bit to much, but I went on youtube and listened to the music from when Shep talks to the Catalyst, and I'm getting this weird feeling that it may be a soft, dreamy version of the Reaper theme...
I actually wouldn't be surprised. They did do a lot with the music from all three parts - usually offering a certain recognition value. But it's a good idea, I'll have to listen to it more closely later today.
Dougremer wrote...
MisterNugNug wrote...
RemorseLessXx wrote...
If you have not seen this video please go watch it and its a good point. This guy might be right because it does make a lot of sense in my eyes.
Also this one is a little more detailed.
Okay lets say Bioware tried to be clever with the ending. Where does that Leave US? We still don't have a definitive end to the story. Are they going to release the REAL endings via DLC? Paid DLC? WE have to pay more money to access the endings? If Shep really is alive, why end the game at that point? Why not make that whole sequence a test? If Bioware needed more time to incorporate the TRUE endings, why not delay the release of the game?
Well then you might say well, Bioware will get flack for delaying the game. Well if it makes a better end product, fans won't complain. What we have now is a majority of the fanbase who's left in limbo now because they're incredibly sour and outraged over the endings present in the game and now have to wait yet again (and perhaps fork over more money) to see a definitive end to their Sheppard's story.
If we need to pay for it, that would suck. BUT if not, this might be the coolest thing ever done in a videogame. Why? Cause it's never been done before. If they do this we are being a part of video game history! And that my friend is a thrilling thought.
yuhime wrote...
Yes, but there is one thing that makes me confused. When you talk to the prothean VI on Tessia it doesn't recognize Shepard as indoctrinated one but Kai Leng. It says "presence of indoctrinated", or something like that, when Kai Leng shows up. Don't you think it would recognize Shepard as a threat as well?
The theory is that NOTHING after the point of being hit by the laser happens. Not going to the Citadel, meeting TIM and Anderson, the Catalyst, using the Crucible, the Normandy crashing, etc. Nothing. Everything that happens pass that is Shepard in an unconcious dream state of fighting indoctrination. Being pushed towards coexisting or control and letting the Reapers survive and win is the indocitrination talking, per se. Destroying them is Shepard's own subconcious telling him to not let it take him over and to finish the job. The whole Crucible explosion thing is what Shepard percieves the Crucible as being. It is said everyone has assumed it is a weapon as no one has ever used it (obviously). After Shepard destroys the tubing with his pistol and breaks free, his unconcious mind makes up the image of the Crucible resonating throughout the galaxy, destroying all Reapers and saving every planet and person. Then, his mind makes up his crew and LI crashing on a world that seems almost too perfect, which is what Shepard cared about the most; his crew being safe. As long as they're safe, he can take not being with them. Then, breaking free from the indoctrination, Shepard wakes up from his unconcious state, takes a gasp of air, and is in the rubble of London, after being hit by the laser.Erenbe wrote...
I haven't read through all ~300 pages but I have a question regarding the hallucination theory.If it has been answered already, sorry for the repeat but I would appreciate an anwer.
Assuming the hallucination is happening...Shepard gets hit by the beam and crumbles and the indoctrination starts. I would think he/she never left Earth but is laying in a field of rubble while his/her mind is travelling through Harbinger-LaLaLand.
If indoctrination fails it seems as if the Crucible does its job and reapers are defeated. Cut to breathing scene and body laying underneath the rubble.
If indoctrination succeeds....how would that change anything? Shepard's still on Earth...there is no way he/she can push any buttons to change the outcome. Or is the Crucible mentally controlled and Shepard just choosing solution A or B would trigger the other outcomes?
I don't believe that Shepard has been teleported to the Citadel or anything...it wouldn't make sense as that would mean that the reapers or the AI god-child would be nice enough to teleport him/her back if he/she chooses the destruction option.....and I wouldn't think that they would even bother.
I kind of like the indoctrination/hallucination scenario as it does make sense but the above mentioned point is something I can't wrap my head around.
So....any suggestions?
Erenbe wrote...
I haven't read through all ~300 pages but I have a question regarding the hallucination theory.If it has been answered already, sorry for the repeat but I would appreciate an anwer.
Assuming the hallucination is happening...Shepard gets hit by the beam and crumbles and the indoctrination starts. I would think he/she never left Earth but is laying in a field of rubble while his/her mind is travelling through Harbinger-LaLaLand.
If indoctrination fails it seems as if the Crucible does its job and reapers are defeated. Cut to breathing scene and body laying underneath the rubble.
If indoctrination succeeds....how would that change anything? Shepard's still on Earth...there is no way he/she can push any buttons to change the outcome. Or is the Crucible mentally controlled and Shepard just choosing solution A or B would trigger the other outcomes?
I don't believe that Shepard has been teleported to the Citadel or anything...it wouldn't make sense as that would mean that the reapers or the AI god-child would be nice enough to teleport him/her back if he/she chooses the destruction option.....and I wouldn't think that they would even bother.
I kind of like the indoctrination/hallucination scenario as it does make sense but the above mentioned point is something I can't wrap my head around.
So....any suggestions?
yuhime wrote...
Yes, but there is one thing that makes me confused. When you talk to the prothean VI on Tessia it doesn't recognize Shepard as indoctrinated one but Kai Leng. It says "presence of indoctrinated", or something like that, when Kai Leng shows up. Don't you think it would recognize Shepard as a threat as well?
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