57139 réponses à ce sujet

[Lili_oups]

 I believe it was an illusion (at least the last part when u enter the citadel)
I destroyed the reapers and all none organic life the geth and my poor EDI wich i loved alot as a character
After the ending cinematic  u see shepard for few sec in his N7 taking a breath and the game stop there
so i assume that scene was RIGHT AFTER harbinger shot at you...so the rest was a illusion/dream...

[Ravax]

seitani wrote...

also one question is if we are wrong why haven't they denied the indoctrination theory?

They dont confirm or deny anything.. just dodging questions...

I tried tweeting as nice as i could, asking if we could have an ETA on biowares comments regarding the endings.. no answer..

They keep dodging everything, and only answer the positive msgs with stuff like: haha! nice! ty for the compliments!

All the other stuff gets ignored and drowned...

[Darjeer]

seitani wrote...

also one question is if we are wrong why haven't they denied the indoctrination theory?

Because this is like a heaven send opportunity to them. Being vague and not deying the indoctrination case (being it true or not) is great way for them to divert some anger that people are feeling about the endings. If they flat out denied it, then everyone who is supporting the indoctrination theory would go back to being angry about the crappy endings.

Modifié par Darjeer, 13 mars 2012 - 11:31 .

[mr.surv]

I'm just search game files for any clues.

For now, I found why our pistol have unlimited ammo.


http://imageshack.us...14/pistolq.jpg/

[Spectre-61]

Dr_Hello wrote...

Someone should start a voting poll - about whether or not you believe it to be indoctrination trial - if it's at all possible to do so on this forum or site.

I think there already are some polls about that.

[Dr_Hello]

Bigdoser wrote...

Flapperrr wrote...


https://twitter.com/#!/masseffect
Damian
King: Began @masseffect 3 at the weekend and now all I read is how bad
the end is. Good feeling about the game gone. Thanks, gaming community.
Mass Effect: That truly sucks. Just think happy thoughts. ;-)

Feres
Rainwhisker: I had a dream where I woke up from the very last bit of
the game with the 3 paths. Wishful thinking, or foreshadowing?
Mass Effect: Haha! Maybe. ;-)

This is very interesting I mean they keep dodging the question most developers would have a response by now if fan outrage became this large. 

I heard the BioWare team can't reveal or comment on anything for now because the game hasn't been released globally yet. So keep our fingers crossed and don't start the street riot... yet.

Modifié par Dr_Hello, 13 mars 2012 - 11:34 .

[Wattoes]

seitani wrote...

also one question is if we are wrong why haven't they denied the indoctrination theory?

Because the majority of the playerbase thinks its one of the worst videogame endings of all time.

At the moment they are probably planning a fix.  With the hallucination theories running about, it gives them an "out" so to speak.

Before they do anything, they have to sit down as a team and decide what the next course of action is.

[Wuyunk]

Ravax wrote...

All this being said, Bioware should say something, comment on something...

If it's true, they should say: Hold on to your ME3, we have a surprise for you! 

There were some tweets though: @GambleMike Will we see futute dlc pertaining to the story and not just mp? I would love some more ME3 single player!

Response: Didn't ME2 teach you anything?

And the one a few days ago from Mike saying something along the lines of "Hardest. Day. Ever. If you all only knew what we had planned you'd keep you copy of ME3 for well, forever!"

That was from Mike too, just cba to find it word for word because it was a couple of days ago.

Also when someone tweeted someone at Bioware asking if the crew that step off the Normandy in the end are dead, they responded saying "Sorry, I don't think we've revealed that yet".

Modifié par Wuyunk, 13 mars 2012 - 11:36 .

[Phydeaux314]

@IronSabbath88

Going by ending song titles is probably a bad plan. After all, that wonderfully haunting piano music is titled "An End Once and for All"

[Lambchopz]

The lack of response at this point is neither proof nor disproof of the indoctrination theory, nor is it explicitly saying anything to the entire response of the ending. You can rationalize it however you want, but at the end of the day, there's now way to be sure.

I still hold that most likely they are playing the waiting game while they figure out what to do, and one of those possible decisions is just to never address the issue at all.

I seriously doubt they have some big plan in store, more likely just buying time at the moment.

[Tsantilas]

There is zero evidence supporting an indoctrination theory. It could be a dream I suppose, but indoctrination? Please. The Prothian VI specifically mentions that Shepard is not indoctrinated. Not to mention that Indoctrination implies that the reaper child is stupid enough to give Shepard a way out by giving him the Destroy/wake up option.

It could be a dream/hallucination but that makes no sense from a storytelling standpoint and still makes a pretty terrible ending. Besides, what exactly does it being a dream accomplish? Are you guys all expecting Bioware to release a patch saying "you've been punked, here's what really happens at the end"? Because really, that's just taking denial and naivety to a whole new level.

[Cyr8]

tb350mdx wrote...

Before I begin, I would like to add a warning that this is a VERY long post and contains a lot of my own speculations and opinions; there is probably plenty of things that people won't agree with.

I'd like to add my two cents. Here's why it's all in Shep's head:

1) Anderson suggests a lot of things to Shep, who agrees with pretty much everything. "Sounds like your description of the Collector base" and "You think they're making a Reaper", to which Shep replies "Sure."
2) The black 'tentacles' at the corners of the screen when you talk to TIM. The Rachni Queen describes this as a symptom of indoctrination. There are also whispering noises at the control panel.
3) Anderson and Shep are in pretty much the same place and there is only one way onto the platform, yet Shep never sees the admiral. This could mean that Anderson is part of Shep's subconcious and is being projected thus.
4) Going on from the subconcious thing, it could be that Anderson and TIM are the proverbial Angel and Devil on Shep's shoulders, two thoughts battling it out in his mind.
5) When TIM shoots himself, the lights in his cybernetics go out and he doesn't do a Saren and get reincarnated, a bit odd considering doing so would give the Reapers the chance to kill Shep once and for all.
6) Shep accepts the Catalyst's arguments without questioning him at all. This is not like Shep.
7) TIM is made to seem like a hero, bathed in Paragon blue and controlling the Reapers. Anderson is made to seem like the villain, bathed in Renegade red and destroying them.
8) Finally, Shep is in a part of the Citadel that has never been seen before, with shifting walls and dark long corridors, the very essence of a nightmare environment.


To add to my points above, I just rewatched all three endings and have come across something kind of interesting:

- In the 'CONTROL' ending, the Catalyst stands by watching the whole time. When Shepard puts her left hand on the console and the whole thing activates, we zoom in on the kid's face and it looks like he is smirking and practically saying "Ha, we won; you're indoctrinated and you let us survive." To me, this path seems like the one TIM was hinting at in his little monologue.

- In the 'Synthesis' ending, the kid is no where to be seen. I don't really know what that means; probably nothing. This path is the on Saren was taking in ME1, where he allowed himself to be 'implanted' with Reaper tech and became the next level of evolution.

--> The one thing I noticed about the two endings above is that SHEP DROPS HER GUN and both scenes (especially control) make a big thing about showing you this. To me, this seems like the final step to giving up. This gun (the M-6 Carnifex if I'm not mistaken) appears out of nowhere when the dream begins and does not only have an unlimited clip but is almost a symbol of defiance and her will to carry on. Shep dropping the gun shows that the Reapers have full control over her mind.

- The final ending, as we all know, is 'Destroy' (which is interstingly the right hand (right as in correct) path). In this, Shep begins by weakly limping towards the conduit and shooting single handed. But as the conduit breaks and the control of the Reaper's is released, Shep grips more tightly on the gun (a sybol of her will and defiance, remember) and finds a huge boost of energy: she stands up taller, grabs the gun with both hands and practically jogs towards the target. This all happens as she moves away from the Kid, who I believe is a figure of Reaper control. As she finally destroys it, the kid disappears in a burst of blue light, as Hackett and Anderson do in the Normandy's comm room. (Could it be a hologram?) In any case, this suggests to me that means that the indoctrination has been broken and this is why the 'Destroy' ending is the only one from which Shep can wake up from. The fire that washes over her at the very end could be a metaphor for cleansing, as in many texts this is the role of fire. This final path should be the obvious one for Shep to take canonically, unless she is a full renegade ass!

- On a slightly unrelated note, the bonus 'Shep Breathing' scene is NOT on the Citadel. Why do I know this? Watch the video and look at her surroundings. She is lying in rubble. STONE rubble. There's no stone in the Citadel's construction, not that I know of; it's all shiny metal. She's in London still and she wakes up after the laser to the face incident.

- Finally, what if (and bear with me on this) there IS an actual reason that you need a high EMS score to use the 'Destroy' option. What if Shep wakes up in London and then goes on to fight the Reapers with the combined fleet, meaning a high EMS is not just nice but is in fact a necessity!

I apologise for the extreme length and incohesive nature of this post. I wrote it as I thought about it. It's probably all just wishful thinking, but I would like to believe that there is a lot of deep thought and symbolism in these endings. If so, my hat comes off to the writers as that would make it one of the best thought out endings I have seen. Still, I want to see a fitting ending with Shep alive where she is reunited with the crew and her LI. I'd love to know what everyone thinks about the point's I've raised here. And don't lose hope; we'll get our ending if it kills us!!

Wow, I really like that. Not only does it expound on the indoctrination theory but it also lays out what in theory the other parts of the game's functions could be, plus what could take place afterwards. Maybe ME3 isn't the end-all be-all of the series with Shepherd and the Bioware guys just pulled wool over our eyes. Maybe ME3 was the part one of the ending but if they explicitly stated 'Part 1' then gamers would know what was going on. To keep the mystery there, they ended it the way they did. I like this theory.

[Dr_Hello]

variobunz wrote...

Dr_Hello wrote...

Someone should start a voting poll - about whether or not you believe it to be indoctrination trial - if it's at all possible to do so on this forum or site.

I think there already are some polls about that.

Let us know of the link

[IronSabbath88]

Oh come on. You need to tell me a song that can mean the causing of mischief was used just by coincidence?

[Darjeer]

mr.surv wrote...

I'm just search game files for any clues.

For now, I found why our pistol have unlimited ammo.


http://imageshack.us...14/pistolq.jpg/

Btw. Wouldn't that infinite ammo be just to ensure you couldn't waste all your rounds before the end and then find yourself in situation where you couldn't shoot the power relay even if you wanted?

[seitani]

Wattoes wrote...

seitani wrote...

also one question is if we are wrong why haven't they denied the indoctrination theory?

Because the majority of the playerbase thinks its one of the worst videogame endings of all time.

At the moment they are probably planning a fix.  With the hallucination theories running about, it gives them an "out" so to speak.

Before they do anything, they have to sit down as a team and decide what the next course of action is.

yea i thought that too i mean you guys have just corrected a mother load of plot holes with this theory. They must be at least considering this

[Mallechai]

J4N3_M3 wrote...

Darjeer wrote...

So how does the game over screen during the final choice fit to the theories about indoctrination / hallucination?

I mean after 5-7 minutes of not choosing any of the endings, you die and get message that The Crucible was destroyed. It would seem that if this really was case of indoctrination, then reapers wouldn't be in any hurry to make Shepard choose.

very interesting point but maybe also just a sign that the real Crucible was destroyed because that was all the time the Reapers needed to destroy it? After all, Hacket and his people bring the Crucible in secretely so the Reapers don't destroy it on the way to the Citadel. 

but that means the crucible is destroyed on its way to the citadel because in the indoctrination theory it never docks with the citadel,  as the arms are never opened by shephard

So then the crucible is destroyed and harvester rather then continueing the indoctrination just kills shephard

possible but would be pretty lame

dont have a fitting other explenation for the 5 min death though

[Brownfinger]

I thought it was a beautiful, if not bizarre, way to conclude the series. From tangible science fiction to something a bit more abstract and philosophical. It was interesting.

Though, I opted to destroy. It made the most sense to me, and Shepard lived.

I will say that Gamble's quote referenced earlier:
"Hardest. Day. Ever. Seriously, if you people knew all the stuff we are planning...you'd, we'll - hold onto your copy of me3 forever."

... gave me hope. Not born out of disappointment, but because I want to know what happened next. I'm so invested in these characters and worlds, I want to know that what I did benefited them in some way.

Modifié par Brownfinger, 13 mars 2012 - 11:39 .

[J4N3_M3]

IronSabbath88 wrote...

Oh come on. You need to tell me a song that can mean the causing of mischief was used just by coincidence?

actually Malefitz comes from latin: maleficus which translates to evil, wicked, cursed, or as a noun to wizard. 

[Lambchopz]

seitani wrote...

Wattoes wrote...

seitani wrote...

also one question is if we are wrong why haven't they denied the indoctrination theory?

Because the majority of the playerbase thinks its one of the worst videogame endings of all time.

At the moment they are probably planning a fix.  With the hallucination theories running about, it gives them an "out" so to speak.

Before they do anything, they have to sit down as a team and decide what the next course of action is.

yea i thought that too i mean you guys have just corrected a mother load of plot holes with this theory. They must be at least considering this

Unless they plan to completely redo the ending from the ground up, a new ending would have to be something along the lines of this theory. At least we figured this out for them.

I still don't think people should get their hopes up they will absolutely change it to begin with; They definitely should, there's a chance, but it might not be as sure fire as some people think.

[Spectre-61]

Dr_Hello wrote...

variobunz wrote...

Dr_Hello wrote...

Someone should start a voting poll - about whether or not you believe it to be indoctrination trial - if it's at all possible to do so on this forum or site.

I think there already are some polls about that.

Let us know of the link

social.bioware.com/1006755/polls/29423/

social.bioware.com/2379002/polls/29403/


There are many more. Just look through the polls and you'll find more.

[Tashakov]

Tsantilas wrote...

There is zero evidence supporting an indoctrination theory. It could be a dream I suppose, but indoctrination? Please. The Prothian VI specifically mentions that Shepard is not indoctrinated. Not to mention that Indoctrination implies that the reaper child is stupid enough to give Shepard a way out by giving him the Destroy/wake up option.

It could be a dream/hallucination but that makes no sense from a storytelling standpoint and still makes a pretty terrible ending. Besides, what exactly does it being a dream accomplish? Are you guys all expecting Bioware to release a patch saying "you've been punked, here's what really happens at the end"? Because really, that's just taking denial and naivety to a whole new level.

Again.

It is Prothean.
Protheans had problems with indoctrination too.
Mainly, traitors like Cerberus.

Now, how do you have a traitor if you knew who they were all along?

The VI, in all likely cases, can only detect *full* indoctrination, like Kai Leng, who is serving the Reapers directly through TIM.
Otherwise, Javik's cycle WOULD NEVER HAVE HAD ANY PROBLEMS FINDING THE TRAITORS.

As for giving her the Destroy option? Simple.
A red herring.
Tell me; if the Catalyst came out and said "you can't beat the Reapers, now choose one or two.", would Shepard cooperate? Or would she be despondent?
But by keeping that goal possible but also making it less attractive, they twist her desires instead of breaking them.
Standard manipulation.

Modifié par adrianlocke647, 13 mars 2012 - 11:42 .

[HadrianusD]

Went back and played the final mission again and starting to seem more plausable, and would so too specially if there was any more planned DLC.

Also found it amusing when picking synergy this time and seeing how heavily similar it was to the ending of the animated program Beast Machines.

[IronSabbath88]

J4N3_M3 wrote...

IronSabbath88 wrote...

Oh come on. You need to tell me a song that can mean the causing of mischief was used just by coincidence?

actually Malefitz comes from latin: maleficus which translates to evil, wicked, cursed, or as a noun to wizard. 

Still strikes me as odd that a song called that would play during such a triumphant moment of "beating" the Reapers and seeing your crew alive.

[SaladinDheonqar]

No. As bad as the ending was, I just can't see Bioware finishing the main ME trilogy on a hallucination, regardless of whether they were working on expansions/dlcs to follow it up. Just imagine if they announced that it was so, and you had to pay more money to get the real ending. Can you just imagine the furore that would cause? Not just from the fanbase, but the whole industry would be outraged. They're not stupid enough to risk losing customers en masse & brand rep (though they might've achieved that anyway) just to make extra cash. I think this theory is just a concoction made up by desperate fans in denial. It's not like I don't understand or sympathise though. I would love it if the ending we were given wasn't real, but that just can't be possible. All we can hope for now is for Bioware to realise how bad it truly was, and go about fixing it.