57139 réponses à ce sujet

[Kloborgg711]

k8ee wrote...


In no way would I be bothered by a DLC ending released in a week that tells us that entire part was a fight against indoctrination. Desperation? Maybe, but it's still better story telling than what we got.

Don't misunderstand me, right now I really wish that would happen. However, from a retrospective standpoint it would be a terribly sadistic move. Bioware has to know how this current ending doesn't just tick people off, it hurts them. I myself was affected by the ending more than I care to admit, and I know many others share the same feeling. And then for them to cash in on that? I can't picture that.
I also can't picture them releasing the "real" ending via DLC. Not everyone has access to DLC. Some might not have the internet, some might not have the money. Some might sell their game in frustration before Bioware springs out from behind the couch with their big cheer of "SURPRISE!"
Aside from the jubilation and relief from those who finally got the ending they want, the overall response would be one of anger and outrage.

[MPSai]

I don't think Stargazer needs to be incorporated into the plot. It's just a bit of fluff going "wowzers, space travel" with Buzz Aldrin giving a awkward voice over the segues into further gameplay. It's like something someone's mom came up with.

The Normandy Crash people think is Shepard imagining her/his friends all getting to safety somewhere peaceful and far from the conflict.

Again, there's a stark possibility that none of this is intentional. But it's so plausible it could easily work as the beginning of an expansion with more satisfying endings.

Modifié par MPSai, 11 mars 2012 - 02:07 .

[RussianOrc]

its really strage how TIM died exactly like saren and that comment "looks like your description of the collector ship"

[Sajuro]

Drewskii wrote...

Kitten Tactics wrote...

-The endgame scenario is Indoctrination/Manipulation from the Reapers (Harbinger) trying to force you into choosing to let the Reapers live. Shepard is not awake during the final scenes.

-Shepard wakes up after Destroy, because the Reaper's hold is diminished. Shepard does not awake in the other 2 "endings" because you are fully indoctrinated by the choices you made to allow the Reapers to win. "Assuming Control!"

-During Shepard's final dream with the child, chatter can be heard over the radio about nobody making it to the beam. Shepard is still in London.

-When Shepard wakes up at the end of Destroy, he/she is waking up in London, after being hit with the laser.

First post here on the BSN , so hello. Clearly this whole thing has created a phenomena that no other game has (to my knowledge) Anyway....

I think this is a fantastic theory, the whole hollucination bit, and I know it's incomplete. However, after kicking this around with my brother who also recently finished the trilogy, the above quoted pieces leave these holes.

- If it's all a hallucination and/or dream, then how can the "aftermath" be explained (Normandy crash, Mass Relays going boom, and "Stargazer"), if Shepard never actually made it to the beam?

Outside of that, it makes a great deal of sense, and am looking forward to seeing what can come of it.

Still stunned at how the ending came about, and how the community has responded. Will be interesting to see what happens going forward...

(Great work, by the way)

Shepard's dieing dream or thinks he's about to die dream. Stargazer could very well be the only actual part after the good ending (destroy) where Shepard breaks out of the Reapers control and goes to destroy them with Tali and Garrus as his wingmen (my shepard at least).

[Evindell]

If I can't get a DLC that "fixes" the endings, I would take a simple patch that edits out the destruction of the Mass relays. Because, without that in there, the endings actually sit a little better with me.

Observe (remember, the Mass relays don't blow up in any of these situations):

• You are given a choice to do what you came to do: to destroy the Reapers. But this, in turn, would also destroy EDI and the Geth (who are both your allies, and your friends). It also leaves the threat of a future synthetic war. But it takes the Reapers out for good. There are both pros and cons to this. And, if you forces are strong enough, this is the choice that allows you to live.
• The second options allows you to control the Reapers. This kills you, but the Reapers become nonhostile tools under your direction. EDI and the Geth get to live. Since you control the Reapers, the threat of a synthetic war is lessened merely by Shepard's control over the Reapers (though other synthetics could always be made to threaten organics, the Reapers could step in and stop it). Shepard is no more, but the Reapers remain. Both pros and cons.
• The third option is, of course, synthesis. This completely obliterates the need for any war between (according to the Starchild) synthetics and organics. The differences between them have been rendered void. EDI and the Geth get to live. Shepard dies, but there is hope for peace. However, you are also basically playing god by rewriting the genetic code of every organic. Pros and cons.

In every one of these options, after removing the scene of the Mass relays blowing up, things are a lot more...hopeful. After all, it has already been established (it is story canon) by the Arrival DLC that the destruction of a Mass relay obliterates all life in the system. So you basically just destroyed the Galaxy to save it (but that also means your crew on the Normandy shouldn't be alive either. Plothole). Without the Mass relays blowing up the Galaxy can rebuild. The army you led to Earth can return home. The Normandy crew can be rescued. Life can continue. This also means the Stargazer epilogue needs to be removed.

And the fate of Earth would be dependent on the forces you gathered. If you have enough Earth survives (and you also live if you choose to destroy the Reapers). Though these choices still leave many plotholes and inconsistencies (such as how you squad got to the Normandy, and why it was retreating, and how TIM got onto the Citadel, etc.) it makes a lot more sense to me.

I would accept this.

[AvianCat]

Kloborgg711 wrote...

 I was asked to repost this here from the mega thread

"
The problem with the indoctrination theory is multifold. I definitely understand the kind of forced positive thinking that makes people want to think it's true, but it's really a pretty flawed one. First of all, when does the "indoctrination" begin? 

Is it all a dream starting when Shepard wakes up and his squad suddenly disappeared along with Harbinger, and yet Anderson made it inside? Most convincingly, this would explain why Shepard awakens in a pile of dark rubble when he supposedly got caught in a space explosion. This would clear up the confusion associated with the whole scenario, and yet that would entail that the entire scene with Anderson and TIM are just figments of imagination, which seems incredibly unlikely. So no, I think we have to accept that Bioware just didn't feel like telling us what actually happened to our squadmates, and instead insinuate the Harbinger just ran away after injuring Shepard a little. Too bad, but I can't see another way.

Next, there's the theory that Shepard is only unconscious after Hackett tells him to activate the thing. This is also appealing for a number of reasons. It sets up the 3 buttons as the "path to indoctrination" and makes sense of why in the hell Shepard sees the Catalyst as that annoying little brat. But then, it doesn't make sense. What DOES happen after Hackett asks Shepard for assistance? How does Shepard somehow miraculously wake up in rubble? 

Also, if the whole sequence involves a dream sequence, why the "epilogue" in the form of Grandpa A-Hole Starwatcher? Why the text about Shepard becoming a legend.. if it's all in his mind?

And really, how stupid would Bioware have to be to do this? I know a lot of people are excited and think this would be an awesome idea, but that's because we're desperate for some kind of happy ending. In reality, how much a slap in the face would it be for Bioware to troll its entire fan base like this? How much of a jerk move would it be to actually keep the real ending secret in a later-released DLC?

No, I think this theory is the result of trying to piece together various plot holes, and the fact that it actually makes more sense than taking it seriously is nothing more then a testament to how bad and inconclusive this ending really was. "

This thread has answers to some of this. The indoctrination begins in Arrival with Shepard being in the Project with Object Rho for 2 days. Bioware may release the real ending over the Alliance Network because of various marketing strategies against used games, piracy, etc. And everything after Shepard dies is just what Shepard wants to see being the savior of the galaxy. But this is all speculation and you may be right.

Modifié par AvianCat, 11 mars 2012 - 02:07 .

[mkohan7]

If the perfect ending is him destroying the reapers and he survives....Then why after all of the credits and the ending does it atomatically take you back to the Galaxy map right before the final mission. They dont want you to quit playing the play through. They would want people who didnt get to 4000 EMS and get the living shepard ending to keep playing so that if there would be a "broken steel" type DLC that would have the true ending that you could then download it and then play the final missions after getting to 4000 EMS that would lead into the DLC version and the true ending of the game. Idk but i feel that with all the info that some of you guys bringing together and after watching the endings many times. It does sound pretty probable.

[k8ee]

Kloborgg711 wrote...

k8ee wrote...


In no way would I be bothered by a DLC ending released in a week that tells us that entire part was a fight against indoctrination. Desperation? Maybe, but it's still better story telling than what we got.

Don't misunderstand me, right now I really wish that would happen. However, from a retrospective standpoint it would be a terribly sadistic move. Bioware has to know how this current ending doesn't just tick people off, it hurts them. I myself was affected by the ending more than I care to admit, and I know many others share the same feeling. And then for them to cash in on that? I can't picture that.
I also can't picture them releasing the "real" ending via DLC. Not everyone has access to DLC. Some might not have the internet, some might not have the money. Some might sell their game in frustration before Bioware springs out from behind the couch with their big cheer of "SURPRISE!"
Aside from the jubilation and relief from those who finally got the ending they want, the overall response would be one of anger and outrage.

They could do it for free throught he alliance network online pass that comes with the game. Also a great way for them to protect the ending from leaks and to get more people to hook up their xbox. I know I only hooked mine up to get dlc for ME2

And trust me, I hate to admit how devestated I was too. I went for beers with friends and this was all I could think of. I felt like Sidonis... the FOOD HAS NO TASTE, lol

[humes spork]

lookingglassmind wrote...

humes spork wrote...

Son of a b*tch I just remembered something.

Vega constantly complains about that humming noise in the cargo bay that no one else seems to be able to hear. Every god damn time I heard that I made the joke somebody snuck a Reaper Indoctrination device onboard the Normandy, because Indoctrination is carried out through infrasound.

F*ck me sideways with a rubber hose.

....

Goddamn.

That was literally the first thing I thought of the first time I literally got to free roam on the Normandy and Vega started complaining about it. I spent an hour on that damn ship scouring every explorable inch looking for an Indoctrination device, mostly because I figured it was a companion quest for Vega.

That, and "find and shut down the Indoctrination devices" showed up in just about every damn round of MP I did.

Modifié par humes spork, 11 mars 2012 - 02:12 .

[Kloborgg711]

AvianCat wrote...
This thread has answers to some of this. The indoctrination begins in Arrival with Shepard being in the Project with Object Rho for 2 days. Bioware may release the real ending over the Alliance Network because of various marketing strategies against used games, piracy, etc. And everything after Shepard dies is just what Shepard wants to see being the savior of the galaxy. But this is all speculation and you may be right.

I really, really can't see something this elaborate being the case. It would be such a betrayal to the fan base to put such a complex hard-to-explain subplot underneath the entire game and only reveal it later via DLC. Again, you might be able to justify anything if you have enough time, but with so much to try and justify it's pretty clear (to me), it's a huge dose of wishful thinking. 

[Asuka Bianchini]

Foulpancake wrote...

Animositisomina wrote...

k8ee wrote...

Kitten Tactics wrote...

lookingglassmind wrote...

Kitten Tactics wrote...

RussianOrc wrote...I've also noticed by watching the ending that the destroy option is the only one wich shepard don't look like a husk before his death.anyone saw that?

What? Can someone elaborate?  I only did Destroy.

In Synthesis and Control, Shepard's skin turns black and she/he begins to take the appearance of a husk.  This could be a metaphor for falling under Reaper control.

HOLY you're right. How did that not register with me???

The only problem with this theory is that you need "dragon's teeth" to convert people into husks.

Pretty sure thats only for other races to make husks, i didn't see any of them in london or anywhere else during ME3 but husks were everywhere. I think Reapers themselves would have no problems making husks

It is said after you find Miranda's father lab that the dragon's teeth is not needed to make husks.

[Daedrus_0837]

 I just thought of something. It may be my desire to not accept the ending as is, but we know that:

1.) Shepard definitely gets in some way by the beam or debris from the beam.

2.) He wakes up with all of his armor missing, none of the team in sight.

3.) In the perfect ending, we see Shepard laying in a pile of rubble, taking a breath.

What if he was dreaming everything between 2 and 3 and him breathing was waking up after being knocked out from the beam/debris?

[Geda173]

humes spork wrote...

lookingglassmind wrote...

humes spork wrote...

Son of a b*tch I just remembered something.

Vega constantly complains about that humming noise in the cargo bay that no one else seems to be able to hear. Every god damn time I heard that I made the joke somebody snuck a Reaper Indoctrination device onboard the Normandy, because Indoctrination is carried out through infrasound.

F*ck me sideways with a rubber hose.

....

Goddamn.

That was literally the first thing I thought of the first time I literally got to free roam on the Normandy and Vega started complaining about it. I spent an hour on that damn ship scouring every explorable inch looking for an Indoctrination device, mostly because I figured it was a companion quest for Vega.

That, and "find and shut down the Indoctrination devices" showed up in just about every damn round of MP I did.

People keep complaining about the poorly written story. If it turns out, that Bioware had planned all this, I'm going to give them all my money. I will drive to Canada or wherever they are sitting and shove my money down their throats and be their ****. Seriously.

[Kloborgg711]

k8ee wrote...
They could do it for free throught he alliance network online pass that comes with the game. Also a great way for them to protect the ending from leaks and to get more people to hook up their xbox. I know I only hooked mine up to get dlc for ME2

And trust me, I hate to admit how devestated I was too. I went for beers with friends and this was all I could think of. I felt like Sidonis... the FOOD HAS NO TASTE, lol

Again, what of the people who don't have internet or otherwise don't have access to DLC for one reason or another? There might not be many, but there are some? What of the people who get used copies of the game? I understand Bioware already has some consequences for not buying the game new, but removing the ending from used gamers? That's too harsh. And finally, what about those who sold their copies out of frustration? Can you imagine the outrage they'd feel?
I don't see how this could protect the ending better, since it would just require one more leak.

[Asuka Bianchini]

kyleh619 wrote...

Don't forget Shepard was unconscious for 2 days during the events of "The Arrival." Its a good amount of exposure for indoctrination.

Remember that Shiala (the green asari) tells shepard that after the Thorian events they kinda ''feel'' the reapers presence and etc, but are fighting it, and according to Shiala it is probably a side effect from the events happened in Zhu's hope, which Shepard took part.

[Geda173]

Kloborgg711 wrote...

k8ee wrote...
They could do it for free throught he alliance network online pass that comes with the game. Also a great way for them to protect the ending from leaks and to get more people to hook up their xbox. I know I only hooked mine up to get dlc for ME2

And trust me, I hate to admit how devestated I was too. I went for beers with friends and this was all I could think of. I felt like Sidonis... the FOOD HAS NO TASTE, lol

Again, what of the people who don't have internet or otherwise don't have access to DLC for one reason or another? There might not be many, but there are some? What of the people who get used copies of the game? I understand Bioware already has some consequences for not buying the game new, but removing the ending from used gamers? That's too harsh. And finally, what about those who sold their copies out of frustration? Can you imagine the outrage they'd feel?
I don't see how this could protect the ending better, since it would just require one more leak.

You need an Internet connection to activate ME3. Once activated, the code is used and you cant sell the game anymore. Your idea is nice, but your explanation unfortunately is obsolete.

[lookingglassmind]

@ Kloborgg711:

This is why I think it makes more sense that the ending is either a hallucination, or a metaphysical interaction with the Catalyst where indoctrination is being attempted. I don't know if indoctrination was fully achieved in-game or prior, but I do think the Catalyst was trying like hell to get to Shepard (through the dreams, and possibly through physical space as well, with the humming sound that Vega acknowledges on the Normandy).

I know it all seems a bit bloated, crazy, and star-eyed. Like we're reaching for anything to make ourselves feel better. And this is likely part of it. But I also think there is some legitmate and logical basis in reality for our suppositions.

[MPSai]

Kloborgg711 wrote...

Again, what of the people who don't have internet or otherwise don't have access to DLC for one reason or another? 

Lot of big DLC or expansions are released on disc these days. Look at Rockstar.

[humes spork]

Geda173 wrote...

humes spork wrote...

That was literally the first thing I thought of the first time I literally got to free roam on the Normandy and Vega started complaining about it. I spent an hour on that damn ship scouring every explorable inch looking for an Indoctrination device, mostly because I figured it was a companion quest for Vega.

That, and "find and shut down the Indoctrination devices" showed up in just about every damn round of MP I did.

People keep complaining about the poorly written story. If it turns out, that Bioware had planned all this, I'm going to give them all my money. I will drive to Canada or wherever they are sitting and shove my money down their throats and be their ****. Seriously.

I started a thread on the gameplay forum about this.

http://social.biowar...7/index/9758191 

Modifié par humes spork, 11 mars 2012 - 02:16 .

[k8ee]

Kloborgg711 wrote...

k8ee wrote...
They could do it for free throught he alliance network online pass that comes with the game. Also a great way for them to protect the ending from leaks and to get more people to hook up their xbox.
*snip*

Again, what of the people who don't have internet or otherwise don't have access to DLC for one reason or another? There might not be many, but there are some? What of the people who get used copies of the game? I understand Bioware already has some consequences for not buying the game new, but removing the ending from used gamers? That's too harsh. And finally, what about those who sold their copies out of frustration? Can you imagine the outrage they'd feel?
I don't see how this could protect the ending better, since it would just require one more leak.

Oh I'm not saying it's right. I'm not saying it's even BW. Seems like something EA would do to try and kill the resale value. It's just been mentioned, that's all.

[Daedrus_0837]

Kloborgg711 wrote...

AvianCat wrote...
This thread has answers to some of this. The indoctrination begins in Arrival with Shepard being in the Project with Object Rho for 2 days. Bioware may release the real ending over the Alliance Network because of various marketing strategies against used games, piracy, etc. And everything after Shepard dies is just what Shepard wants to see being the savior of the galaxy. But this is all speculation and you may be right.

I really, really can't see something this elaborate being the case. It would be such a betrayal to the fan base to put such a complex hard-to-explain subplot underneath the entire game and only reveal it later via DLC. Again, you might be able to justify anything if you have enough time, but with so much to try and justify it's pretty clear (to me), it's a huge dose of wishful thinking. 

The events of Arrival are plot-critical, yet it is DLC. I think EA & BioWare have definitely shown in the past that they are willing to release plot-critical content in DLC form. Whether that is for more money (probably), or to maintain interest in the game between major game releases, it doesn't matter. They have proven in the past that they are willing to do this.

With that being said, my gut feeling is that this is an intentional "fill in the gaps", so that the player can make their own conclusion to their player. I hate movies/stories/games with that sort of ending, but it is somewhat common.

[Geda173]

humes spork wrote...

Geda173 wrote...

humes spork wrote...

That was literally the first thing I thought of the first time I literally got to free roam on the Normandy and Vega started complaining about it. I spent an hour on that damn ship scouring every explorable inch looking for an Indoctrination device, mostly because I figured it was a companion quest for Vega.

That, and "find and shut down the Indoctrination devices" showed up in just about every damn round of MP I did.

People keep complaining about the poorly written story. If it turns out, that Bioware had planned all this, I'm going to give them all my money. I will drive to Canada or wherever they are sitting and shove my money down their throats and be their ****. Seriously.

.

I started a thread on the gameplay forum about this.

http://social.biowar...7/index/9758191 

I cant piece your statement and the video together. I chose fusion for my first playthrough, but I dont see the connection right now

Modifié par Geda173, 11 mars 2012 - 02:18 .

[lookingglassmind]

Good work, humes. You have been invaluable to this thread, I must say.

[Korhiann]

Geda173 wrote...

humes spork wrote...

lookingglassmind wrote...

humes spork wrote...

Son of a b*tch I just remembered something.

Vega constantly complains about that humming noise in the cargo bay that no one else seems to be able to hear. Every god damn time I heard that I made the joke somebody snuck a Reaper Indoctrination device onboard the Normandy, because Indoctrination is carried out through infrasound.

F*ck me sideways with a rubber hose.

....

Goddamn.

That was literally the first thing I thought of the first time I literally got to free roam on the Normandy and Vega started complaining about it. I spent an hour on that damn ship scouring every explorable inch looking for an Indoctrination device, mostly because I figured it was a companion quest for Vega.

That, and "find and shut down the Indoctrination devices" showed up in just about every damn round of MP I did.

People keep complaining about the poorly written story. If it turns out, that Bioware had planned all this, I'm going to give them all my money. I will drive to Canada or wherever they are sitting and shove my money down their throats and be their ****. Seriously.

if it's true then that's certainly the payoff Bioware is hoping for and not having it backfire, making people even more angry.
I would be impressed if it turns out to be true. Whether or not I would be impressed enough to actually pay more for a proper ending remains to be seen.

Modifié par Korhiann, 11 mars 2012 - 02:19 .

[Kloborgg711]

snakehipss wrote...

i think the final piece of evidence we need is the very very last scene with that little child on that planet with the old man. remember how he asks him to tell him another story? the old man replies with "its late, but oh well okay".

thats going to be the free dlc where he wakes up from his dream and tells the kid the proper ending we wanted.

Also, if we take BW's word for granted that the multiplayer readiness thing does indeed not influence the ending, it's all the more true if it will come in form of a free DLC. 

However, playing the multiplayer and having more war assets DOES give you that two second cutscene showing Shep having a breather with the red ending. 

Either they straight out lied (grinding readiness points gives you different ending) which is a straight out blatant lie

OR

they did indeed tell the truth and it was indeed a dream sequence where Harb was trying to indoctrinate Shep.

I think the latter makes a lot more sense. 

I'm not convinced by the "one more story" thing. I don't think it's that cryptic. He says "one more story" and the game instantly puts you back at your last before-the-end save. I think the implication is that if you want to try the ending differently, that's the "one more story". At least, that's how I took it.

Also, what kind of trolling a-hole grandpa tells a kid a story with a fake ending, and then supplements it with an entirely different (ableit better) ending?

I'm not quite sure what your point about readiness is. They kind of lied about that, because AFAIK you can't get 5k effective military power without a boost to readiness. I don't think there's any other option here, because you NEED all those assets in order to get the "secret ending". I can't really see what you're trying to say here.