57139 réponses à ce sujet

[Jaleth]

Brilliant theory, sounds very plausible. The game would pour over into real life like this.

[k8ee]

kyrieee wrote...

catgirl789 wrote...

DangerSandler wrote...

 "Cerberus must have been tipped off. They got here too fast" - Garrus
"Every war has it's traitors." - Liara.
I find that that little point never got resolved, I mean, is it possible that Shepard could have been subconciously feeding TIM/ The Reapers info? All of our thoughts fit the theory of indoctrination, but lack necessary evidence to prove it. It's maddening. 

Hey guys, not sure if this contributes in any way, but when you're first having a council with the krogans, turians, and salarians there is a little camera like angle that has that dark oiliness to it or at the very least looks kind of like in ME2 when the collector's are watching the Normandy. Perhaps that's when Cerberus found out about the female krogan? 

I really want this theory to be true, but we might have to accept that Bioware had a much different vision for the ending than we had.

Hmm, anyone have a video clip of this scene?

Has this been confirmed?

[FrostByte-GER]

MRedfield wrote...

FrostByte-GER wrote...

Hey guys is there something new? I'm actual in school...please tell it to me.

Nothing new yet.

BioWare is still using cryptic comments about it all and not confirming or denying anything.

And some new indications or evidences for the theory?

[Vyrii]

MDT1 wrote...

Igib wrote...

I just noticed... Shep's walking and talking like a half-dead, but the moment he/she starts firing (destroy option), he/she straighten up, suddenly full of energy. This has to mean something.

Another sign that we might be right?

Shepard also runs into the synthesis beam when you get close enough.

The only somewhat solid evidence we have that Shepard never left Earth is the small cutscene when he/she takes breath.
But to be hones, Shep already survived falling onto a planet, and with all the space magic the citadel has it wouldn't surprise me if thats the explanation ...

Shepard actually didn't survive falling into the planet Alchera.  When you are going through the Cerberus Base you can watch the video logs on it.  Shepard was "technically brain-dead" AKA: no life here!

I highly doubt that Shepard could survive falling to the planet with the extensive wounds anyway.  Space magic or not. :/

[Gowienczyk]

adrianlocke647 wrote...

MDT1 wrote...
But to be hones, Shep already survived falling onto a planet, and with all the space magic the citadel has it wouldn't surprise me if thats the explanation ...

Last time, she had armor. And a helmet. And was *still* dead. The only reason she was brought back was because said helmet kept her brain intact, according to the Lazerus logs.

Sadly, yes. Space magic invalidates everything. If Bioware wanted to, they could have her breakdancing through the atmosphere, only to land on the Statue of Liberty in a disco pose.

This is why I hate space magic.

If Donovon Hock hadn't already stolen Liberty.

[thePredator50]

Fun fact - you can't skip the growls heard when you first meet the kid in the destroyed building on earth.

[Tashakov]

Gowienczyk wrote...

If Donovon Hock hadn't already stolen Liberty.

Just her head!
We, uh... have no idea where the rest ended up.

[Vyrii]

adrianlocke647 wrote...

Gowienczyk wrote...

If Donovon Hock hadn't already stolen Liberty.

Just her head!
We, uh... have no idea where the rest ended up.

Pfht, my Shep gave all the rest to Kasumi

[Vyrii]

thePredator50 wrote...

Fun fact - you can't skip the growls heard when you first meet the kid in the destroyed building on earth.

Growls?  What growls?  Video?

[Sheparded]

i couldn't get a screenshot of it but at the Beginning where the kid is watching you from the balcony, he runs to the locked door and it opens for him. (this is the door you go through after the melee part) i thought this was a bit odd

[Darjeer]

thePredator50 wrote...

Fun fact - you can't skip the growls heard when you first meet the kid in the destroyed building on earth.

Growls? You mean those reaper sounds that might, just MIGHT, be produced by the fricking reapers destroying everything around you?

[Vyrii]

Sheparded wrote...

i couldn't get a screenshot of it but at the Beginning where the kid is watching you from the balcony, he runs to the locked door and it opens for him. (this is the door you go through after the melee part) i thought this was a bit odd

:/  That's not really solid enough.  The door could be tagged to open for him, and he could have locked it afterwards.
The whole kid thing is just odd in general though, especially the whole "You can't help me" part.
Creepy kids....
I'm never having them.

[VyRianS]

I'm not sure if these points have been mentioned before:

1) Most of the theories here have mentioned that the destroy option conduit (which was definitely Paragon story-wise), was bathed in RED (which is Renegade) and vice versa for the Control option circuit. After the starchild shows Shepard the options, Shepard immediately visualizes Anderson destroying the conduit, and the Illusive Man grasping the circuit, which is suspicious, given the colors the options were shown in. So here we have Anderson, who is a staunch 'Destroy' proponent and Shepard's ally, taking part in the RED choice. I was wondering, could this be Shepard's subconsciousness trying to take a last stand against the indoctrination?

2) For most pure Paragon Shepards, the very last Paragon choice (convincing TIM) is still greyed out. Is this deliberate move an attempt to show us the depth/'completeness' of the indoctrination? If someone is indoctrinated, doing something that is central to the original consciousness of the character must have been exceedingly difficult, thus the greyed out Paragon choice.

There are other concerns of course, which include the part were shooting TIM is shown as a Renegade choice instead of Paragon (being Anderson's savior).

Do forgive me if these points have been reiterated; there are more than 300 pages of posts in this thread and I didn't read them all.

[Wuyunk]

Vyrii wrote...

thePredator50 wrote...

Fun fact - you can't skip the growls heard when you first meet the kid in the destroyed building on earth.

Growls?  What growls?  Video?

I'm also interested in this, because I know from the books the reapers made a similar noise when they knew Grayson wasn't fully under the effects. But I never heard the growls myself, or maybe I just wasn't listening for them.

Are you sure it wasn't coming from the tons of Reapers in Vancouver at the time?

[Sciffan]

I feel kind of ashamed for doubting Bioware at all after this.

[Vyrii]

VyRianS wrote...

I'm not sure if these points have been mentioned before:

1) Most of the theories here have mentioned that the destroy option conduit (which was definitely Paragon story-wise), was bathed in RED (which is Renegade) and vice versa for the Control option circuit. After the starchild shows Shepard the options, Shepard immediately visualizes Anderson destroying the conduit, and the Illusive Man grasping the circuit, which is suspicious, given the colors the options were shown in. So here we have Anderson, who is a staunch 'Destroy' proponent and Shepard's ally, taking part in the RED choice. I was wondering, could this be Shepard's subconsciousness trying to take a last stand against the indoctrination?

2) For most pure Paragon Shepards, the very last Paragon choice (convincing TIM) is still greyed out. Is this deliberate move an attempt to show us the depth/'completeness' of the indoctrination? If someone is indoctrinated, doing something that is central to the original consciousness of the character must have been exceedingly difficult, thus the greyed out Paragon choice.

There are other concerns of course, which include the part were shooting TIM is shown as a Renegade choice instead of Paragon (being Anderson's savior).

Do forgive me if these points have been reiterated; there are more than 300 pages of posts in this thread and I didn't read them all.

I haven't seen the second point, and I do have to say that I was rather confused by the whole greyed out paragon option.  I'm on my second play through now, so I'll try again but does anyone have a confirmation on what paragon score you have to have in order to unlock it?

I didn't have enough paragon or renegade, and I play mainly as a paragrade.

Shooting Udina is also a renegade interrupt.  But I didn't hesitate to kill him there.
You can't indoctrinate me BioWare!

[Icinix]

Sheparded wrote...

i couldn't get a screenshot of it but at the Beginning where the kid is watching you from the balcony, he runs to the locked door and it opens for him. (this is the door you go through after the melee part) i thought this was a bit odd

Where does this happen?

I certainly didn't see this happening.

Kid flying toy fighter in circles. (Doesn't run to any door on scene)

Kid in vent. (Vanishes)

Kid getting on evacuation craft. (From nowhere to to the ship)

Am I missing a scene?

[Ona Demonie]

VyRianS wrote...

I'm not sure if these points have been mentioned before:

1) Most of the theories here have mentioned that the destroy option conduit (which was definitely Paragon story-wise), was bathed in RED (which is Renegade) and vice versa for the Control option circuit. After the starchild shows Shepard the options, Shepard immediately visualizes Anderson destroying the conduit, and the Illusive Man grasping the circuit, which is suspicious, given the colors the options were shown in. So here we have Anderson, who is a staunch 'Destroy' proponent and Shepard's ally, taking part in the RED choice. I was wondering, could this be Shepard's subconsciousness trying to take a last stand against the indoctrination?

2) For most pure Paragon Shepards, the very last Paragon choice (convincing TIM) is still greyed out. Is this deliberate move an attempt to show us the depth/'completeness' of the indoctrination? If someone is indoctrinated, doing something that is central to the original consciousness of the character must have been exceedingly difficult, thus the greyed out Paragon choice.

There are other concerns of course, which include the part were shooting TIM is shown as a Renegade choice instead of Paragon (being Anderson's savior).

Do forgive me if these points have been reiterated; there are more than 300 pages of posts in this thread and I didn't read them all.

The amount of Paragon and Renegade you have doesn't really affect the game that much. It's the reputation. I had a silver of Renegade and I managed to get both Paragon and Renegade routes in the final scene.

[Lurchibald]

Sciffan wrote...

I feel kind of ashamed for doubting Bioware at all after this.

Nothing has been confirmed yet, this could all end up being a pipe-dream

[Ona Demonie]

Icinix wrote...

Sheparded wrote...

i couldn't get a screenshot of it but at the Beginning where the kid is watching you from the balcony, he runs to the locked door and it opens for him. (this is the door you go through after the melee part) i thought this was a bit odd

Where does this happen?

I certainly didn't see this happening.

Kid flying toy fighter in circles. (Doesn't run to any door on scene)

Kid in vent. (Vanishes)

Kid getting on evacuation craft. (From nowhere to to the ship)

Am I missing a scene?

It's not a scene. When you're getting near the house, ALWAYS look towards it. You'll see him run in and the husks will come out when you're closer to it.

[Rob_K1]

Been thinking about this too. I cleared the game yesterday.

I'm not sure if it's been mentioned yet, but I'd like to draw your attention to specific points in the videos below:

Kid dream sequence

Go to around 7:47. Listen to the sounds. In particular, the wind. Then, listen to the music around 8:20.

Approaching the conduit

Go to around 16:02. Doesn't the wind and such familiar? I know, I know, it's wind... but still. Even when Shepard gets 'hit' or 'knocked out', the tune sounds similar to the one in the dream sequence with the kid, as the next scene loads. Not exactly the same, but similar.

Talking with the Illusive Man

Go to around 4:21. As Shepard's actions are being controlled, that is one heck of a strange noise. Possibly fits in with noises mentioned in the Indoctrination codex entry? Either way, it's one heck of a funny noise. Note that Shepard also seems to be suffering from bad headaches as he is being controlled. The headaches are definitely referenced in the codex entry anyway and they were mentioned in ME 2. Also, Anderson and the Illusive Man, if the theory is correct, would represent two diferent parts of Shepard's conscience. One fighting the effects of succumbing and one wanting to succumb.

Talking with the 'child'

Finally, go to around 3:21. Now then, all of the above I can chalk up to me reading too much into things, quite possibly. However, the child's words around this point, I cannot simply chalk up to me reading too much into things and clinging onto false hope (keep in mind I have no problem with the endings either, though more would be nice).

So, what has me dead set on thinking it's a dream/indoctrination attempt? The child says that if Shepard picks the destroy ending, he'd wipe out all synthetic life. The child also says that Shepard is partly synthetic. To me, that implies that Shepard would also be killed. Does it imply the same to others? So, if Shepard would be destroyed, why exactly is he seen breathing if you get the 'perfect' ending?

That's not even touching the rubble either, as I'm trying to not mention things people already have. (Apologies if others have mentioned these things). Also, again, the tune at this point again seemed similar in tone to the dream sequence.

So again, aside from the last point I raised here, I can chalk everything up to me reading too much into things. Surely, if everything the child said was true etc., then there should be no way Shepard could survive the destroy ending. This is ignoring everything else Shepard would need to survive as well, meaning the fall to earth/explosion.

Edit: What I cannot explain though is why that epilogue scene with the grandfather and child plays no matter what choice you make. If it is a dream/hallucination/indoctrination attempt, then surely the Reapers would win? Unless people do it without him, but he was just integral in giving the galaxy the chance to win, therefore still being heralded as a hero.

Modifié par Rob_K1, 13 mars 2012 - 01:00 .

[Icinix]

Vyrii wrote...

VyRianS wrote...

I'm not sure if these points have been mentioned before:

1) Most of the theories here have mentioned that the destroy option conduit (which was definitely Paragon story-wise), was bathed in RED (which is Renegade) and vice versa for the Control option circuit. After the starchild shows Shepard the options, Shepard immediately visualizes Anderson destroying the conduit, and the Illusive Man grasping the circuit, which is suspicious, given the colors the options were shown in. So here we have Anderson, who is a staunch 'Destroy' proponent and Shepard's ally, taking part in the RED choice. I was wondering, could this be Shepard's subconsciousness trying to take a last stand against the indoctrination?

2) For most pure Paragon Shepards, the very last Paragon choice (convincing TIM) is still greyed out. Is this deliberate move an attempt to show us the depth/'completeness' of the indoctrination? If someone is indoctrinated, doing something that is central to the original consciousness of the character must have been exceedingly difficult, thus the greyed out Paragon choice.

There are other concerns of course, which include the part were shooting TIM is shown as a Renegade choice instead of Paragon (being Anderson's savior).

Do forgive me if these points have been reiterated; there are more than 300 pages of posts in this thread and I didn't read them all.

I haven't seen the second point, and I do have to say that I was rather confused by the whole greyed out paragon option.  I'm on my second play through now, so I'll try again but does anyone have a confirmation on what paragon score you have to have in order to unlock it?

I didn't have enough paragon or renegade, and I play mainly as a paragrade.

Shooting Udina is also a renegade interrupt.  But I didn't hesitate to kill him there.
You can't indoctrinate me BioWare!

No idea about the greyed out choice. Never seen that before. I know you have to paragon blue him everytime you speak to him before the citadel though.

[Wuyunk]

VyRianS wrote...

I'm not sure if these points have been mentioned before:

1) Most of the theories here have mentioned that the destroy option conduit (which was definitely Paragon story-wise), was bathed in RED (which is Renegade) and vice versa for the Control option circuit. After the starchild shows Shepard the options, Shepard immediately visualizes Anderson destroying the conduit, and the Illusive Man grasping the circuit, which is suspicious, given the colors the options were shown in. So here we have Anderson, who is a staunch 'Destroy' proponent and Shepard's ally, taking part in the RED choice. I was wondering, could this be Shepard's subconsciousness trying to take a last stand against the indoctrination?

2) For most pure Paragon Shepards, the very last Paragon choice (convincing TIM) is still greyed out. Is this deliberate move an attempt to show us the depth/'completeness' of the indoctrination? If someone is indoctrinated, doing something that is central to the original consciousness of the character must have been exceedingly difficult, thus the greyed out Paragon choice.

There are other concerns of course, which include the part were shooting TIM is shown as a Renegade choice instead of Paragon (being Anderson's savior).

Do forgive me if these points have been reiterated; there are more than 300 pages of posts in this thread and I didn't read them all.

Its pretty much all be covered 

But its worth saying none of my Paragon choices with the Illusive man were greyed out, infact no paragon choice through the entire game was ever greyed out for me and I took them all, resulting in the TIM shooting himself.

[VyRianS]

Wallace West wrote...

VyRianS wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Jesus H Christ...

It just occurred to me.

What if this theory is absolutely correct...

And Bioware, not wanting to risk another leak of their ending has chosen instead to make it to where the ending is not part of the original game... until a patch comes in when it is available in every region?

Think about it, they radically changed the game from the leaked scripts, why didn't they change things when THE ENDING VIDEOS themselves were leaked? Why did they give a statement saying "yup, those are pretty much it."

Otherwise, why the silence, if they aren't planning something? Why the fact that they have barely let out any info, beyond cryptic hints of "Just wait and see, can't comment yet."

It might be wishful thinking, but right now, I believe that Bioware has the entire ending all set up and ready... to be released in a patch when the game itself has reached maximum saturation.

It's like a magic show, the magician seems competent up until the end, when suddenly he starts failing, badly, and then, at the last moment, to the entire audience's suprise, he pulls off his biggest trick yet, to roaring applause.

I would love this as well. But don't forget BW is now run financially by EA, so all release/DLC decisions are made by EA. It is highly unlikely they would do something like this... it is financially unsound for the company. The only feasible course of action now would be that BW realizes their screwup, and issues an ending DLC, apologizing for the error OR saying this was the way they wanted it all along (which would be rubbish).

Crazy sure...but rubbish?...I don't  think so.  I mean look at where we are now? 300+ pages, over 19,000 likes on the facebook page and the polls are steadily growing by the second. Like many has said, this could either be the biggest ball being dropped in ****ing history or the most magnificent ploy that any game company has ever attempted. It's basically the most insane Post-game ARG (if it turns out to be true). Thousands of disillusioned people banning together and fighting a seemingly unfathomable enemy? Sounds familiar... 

You read my post wrongly. I didn't mean the DLC endings would be rubbish, I meant their REASON for the sudden release of an additional Ending DLC would be rubbish.

[Bigdoser]

VyRianS wrote...

I'm not sure if these points have been mentioned before:

1) Most of the theories here have mentioned that the destroy option conduit (which was definitely Paragon story-wise), was bathed in RED (which is Renegade) and vice versa for the Control option circuit. After the starchild shows Shepard the options, Shepard immediately visualizes Anderson destroying the conduit, and the Illusive Man grasping the circuit, which is suspicious, given the colors the options were shown in. So here we have Anderson, who is a staunch 'Destroy' proponent and Shepard's ally, taking part in the RED choice. I was wondering, could this be Shepard's subconsciousness trying to take a last stand against the indoctrination?

2) For most pure Paragon Shepards, the very last Paragon choice (convincing TIM) is still greyed out. Is this deliberate move an attempt to show us the depth/'completeness' of the indoctrination? If someone is indoctrinated, doing something that is central to the original consciousness of the character must have been exceedingly difficult, thus the greyed out Paragon choice.

There are other concerns of course, which include the part were shooting TIM is shown as a Renegade choice instead of Paragon (being Anderson's savior).

Do forgive me if these points have been reiterated; there are more than 300 pages of posts in this thread and I didn't read them all.

To unlock the last intimidate/charm option at the end with TIM you have to use the charm/intimidate option on him while talking to him on mars, thessia and the cerb base.