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[FugitiveMind]

60 pages after going to sleep???

My lord this is moving faster than the righteous anger thread now.

Of course that means righteous anger is starting to peter out and the masses are looking for answers/shared delusions instead...

So anything good from the last 60? Or more of the same from new voices?

[kyrieee]

Wuyunk wrote...

Vyrii wrote...

thePredator50 wrote...

Fun fact - you can't skip the growls heard when you first meet the kid in the destroyed building on earth.

Growls?  What growls?  Video?

I'm also interested in this, because I know from the books the reapers made a similar noise when they knew Grayson wasn't fully under the effects. But I never heard the growls myself, or maybe I just wasn't listening for them.

Are you sure it wasn't coming from the tons of Reapers in Vancouver at the time?

I've listened to it several times, and replayed the beginning of the game.
I'm quite sure. When you're talking to the kid, the whole sound mixing changes, everything sounds really distant. Those Reaper noises are not heard anywhere else on Earth. It sounds more like something ghastly than a machine.

http://www.youtube.c...o-wAvI#t=11m30s
11min 30 seconds in

The only other explanation I see, is the sound being distorted by the ventilation duct. That could sound kind of like that.

Modifié par kyrieee, 13 mars 2012 - 01:00 .

[Capeo]

VyRianS wrote...

I'm not sure if these points have been mentioned before:

1) Most of the theories here have mentioned that the destroy option conduit (which was definitely Paragon story-wise), was bathed in RED (which is Renegade) and vice versa for the Control option circuit. After the starchild shows Shepard the options, Shepard immediately visualizes Anderson destroying the conduit, and the Illusive Man grasping the circuit, which is suspicious, given the colors the options were shown in. So here we have Anderson, who is a staunch 'Destroy' proponent and Shepard's ally, taking part in the RED choice. I was wondering, could this be Shepard's subconsciousness trying to take a last stand against the indoctrination?

2) For most pure Paragon Shepards, the very last Paragon choice (convincing TIM) is still greyed out. Is this deliberate move an attempt to show us the depth/'completeness' of the indoctrination? If someone is indoctrinated, doing something that is central to the original consciousness of the character must have been exceedingly difficult, thus the greyed out Paragon choice.

There are other concerns of course, which include the part were shooting TIM is shown as a Renegade choice instead of Paragon (being Anderson's savior).

Do forgive me if these points have been reiterated; there are more than 300 pages of posts in this thread and I didn't read them all.

In  my playthroughs I was able to talk TIM into killing himself using both a Para and a Reg option.  Didn't have to do an interrupt of any kind.

[Eirileth]

I've been watching their tweets. The BioWare and RA employees are completely ignoring us now. Or at least acting like we're not saying what were saying. I saw Mike Gamble post this morning that they have gotten tons of great feedback and to keep it coming. The official Mass Effect twitter doesn't ignore us, it childishly takes shots at us. But the good news is that everyone else sees what we are doing. We've been noticed by major gaming publications and we will have an effect. Keep holding the line. Keelah Se'lai.

[mr.surv]

I've just checked all files related to "end" word, and there is nothing more than 3 endgame files on DVD's


And my first theory why it only install 10GB from 14GB DVDs- simple! On Disc 2 are other languages files.

So there's no hidden files on disc's. Now there are 2 options:

1. DLC with ending.
2. PickAColour endings are final.

Very strange is what BW is doing right now.

They said that they don't want to say anything about endings becouse of Asian players... but with no official statement they making ending matter more noticeable ....

[Terraforming2154]

Wuyunk wrote...

Vyrii wrote...

thePredator50 wrote...

Fun fact - you can't skip the growls heard when you first meet the kid in the destroyed building on earth.

Growls?  What growls?  Video?

I'm also interested in this, because I know from the books the reapers made a similar noise when they knew Grayson wasn't fully under the effects. But I never heard the growls myself, or maybe I just wasn't listening for them.

Are you sure it wasn't coming from the tons of Reapers in Vancouver at the time?

Woah, wait. The book(s) do mention that the Reapers growl? Or make a noise similar to it?

[Icinix]

Rob_K1 wrote...

Been thinking about this too. I cleared the game yesterday.

I'm not sure if it's been mentioned yet, but I'd like to draw your attention to specific points in the videos below:

Kid dream sequence

Go to around 7:47. Listen to the sounds. In particular, the wind. Then, listen to the music around 8:20.

Approaching the conduit

Go to around 16:02. Doesn't the wind and such familiar? I know, I know, it's wind... but still. Even when Shepard gets 'hit' or 'knocked out', the tune sounds similar to the one in the dream sequence with the kid, as the next scene loads. Not exactly the same, but similar.

Talking with the Illusive Man

Go to around 4:21. As Shepard's actions are being controlled, that is one heck of a strange noise. Possibly fits in with noises mentioned in the Indoctrination codex entry? Either way, it's one heck of a funny noise. Note that Shepard also seems to be suffering from bad headaches as he is being controlled. The headaches are definitely referenced in the codex entry anyway and they were mentioned in ME 2. Also, Anderson and the Illusive Man, if the theory is correct, would represent two diferent parts of Shepard's conscience. One fighting the effects of succumbing and one wanting to succumb.

Talking with the 'child'

Finally, go to around 3:21. Now then, all of the above I can chalk up to me reading too much into things, quite possibly. However, the child's words around this point, I cannot simply chalk up to me reading too much into things and clinging onto false hope (keep in mind I have no problem with the endings either, though more would be nice).

So, what has me dead set on thinking it's a dream/indoctrination attempt? The child says that if Shepard picks the destroy ending, he'd wipe out all synthetic life. The child also says that Shepard is partly synthetic. To me, that implies that Shepard would also be killed. Does it imply the same to others? So, if Shepard would be destroyed, why exactly is he seen breathing if you get the 'perfect' ending?

That's not even touching the rubble either, as I'm trying to not mention things people already have. (Apologies if others have mentioned these things). Also, again, the tune at this point again seemed similar in tone to the dream sequence.

So again, aside from the last point I raised here, I can chalk everything up to me reading too much into things. Surely, if everything the child said was true etc., then there should be no way Shepard could survive the destroy ending. This is ignoring everything else Shepard would need to survive as well, meaning the fall to earth/explosion.

Edit: What I cannot explain though is why that epilogue scene with the grandfather and child plays no matter what choice you make. If it is a dream/hallucination/indoctrination attempt, then surely the Reapers would win? Unless people do it without him, but he was just integral in giving the galaxy the chance to win, therefore still being heralded as a hero.

If you overlay the dream video with the walk to the conduit video - there is some crazy similar noises happening - I would dare say they are the same - but the conduit noise is louder.

[Vyrii]

Pathero04:55 AM 2012-03-13

Not linked ME3 to my account yet (GAH!) but maybe you can judge this and post if you think it is relevant:

Someone posted this link earlier in the forum (moves so fast eh?):
http://imageshack.us/f/834/4534n.jpg/

I think that it might be important to note that someone found the following unused sound clip in the game too:


Why is it important? Sounds like Joker is shouting that whilst...doing...a...flyby... ... ...

Just like is one of the movies in the highlighted stack.

I
don't pretend to know how the game is set up but since these are in the
skippable stack because they are flagged as skippable in the game (in
the same way that a cutscene that you do not get because you haven't the
requirement, such as love scenes with people other than you LI are) but
are flagged up as skip because a certaain other condition has not been
met?

Not much to go on, but it might be something.

If you could post this in the Hallucination/Indoctrination forum I'd be grateful

This is a PM I got from Pathero, I think they bring up good points.
Sorry for posting this so late Pathero!

What do you think?  The unused clip DEFINETLY spiked my interest, it gives us evidence as to WHY joker is trying to get away from Earth, and WHY our teammates just suddenly teleport to the Normandy.
Not sure as to why the "girls" is in there though, it fits for me because I play as FemShep, however for MaleShep?

Some more evidence as to how this is going to continue.  Very good find Pathero!

[arkhine]

Sorry if this has been posted before. Dialogue that was cut short from the ending speech by Anderson.

[Elanor]

Bigdoser wrote...

VyRianS wrote...

I'm not sure if these points have been mentioned before:

1) Most of the theories here have mentioned that the destroy option conduit (which was definitely Paragon story-wise), was bathed in RED (which is Renegade) and vice versa for the Control option circuit. After the starchild shows Shepard the options, Shepard immediately visualizes Anderson destroying the conduit, and the Illusive Man grasping the circuit, which is suspicious, given the colors the options were shown in. So here we have Anderson, who is a staunch 'Destroy' proponent and Shepard's ally, taking part in the RED choice. I was wondering, could this be Shepard's subconsciousness trying to take a last stand against the indoctrination?

2) For most pure Paragon Shepards, the very last Paragon choice (convincing TIM) is still greyed out. Is this deliberate move an attempt to show us the depth/'completeness' of the indoctrination? If someone is indoctrinated, doing something that is central to the original consciousness of the character must have been exceedingly difficult, thus the greyed out Paragon choice.

There are other concerns of course, which include the part were shooting TIM is shown as a Renegade choice instead of Paragon (being Anderson's savior).

Do forgive me if these points have been reiterated; there are more than 300 pages of posts in this thread and I didn't read them all.

To unlock the last intimidate/charm option at the end with TIM you have to use the charm/intimidate option on him while talking to him on mars, thessia and the cerb base. 

I've done that. I think that convincing TIM to shoot himself isn't really creative. We have the same situation with Saren. <_< They can do better than that.

[rogueagent6]

What I think people are loosing sight of is that this is war. One of the most important tools in warfare is deception. Making your enemy think you are doing one thing, while you do another. Or more imortantly, get your enemy to do what YOU want them to do.

Someone made the point last night that the child represents the face of everyone on Earth that Shepard cannot save, but that did not make it a "ghostly presence" as desdribed in the codex. Indeed the art book says exactly this. Why then, if the Catlyst is benevolent, did it choose the single most powerful image of failure Shepard has? They want to demoarlize him the way you want to demoralize any enemy.

Indoctrination is a tool of the Reapers. It's present throughout all three games, novels, and comics. Why wouldn't they attempt to use it on Shepard? My Shepard personally has had a hand in the death of four Reapers, five if you include the proto Reaper from ME2. Has destroyed the relay they were trying to use as a beach head into the galaxy. And is the single most important face in this fight. Major Coats points this out at the FOB back on earth. If the Reapers were to succeed in getting Shepard to fall to indoctrination it would be the battle that wins the war.

Remember these points:

Saren wanted join with the reapers, "A synthesis of steel and flesh, with the strenghts of both, and the weakneses of neither."

The Illusive Man wants to control the Reapers. Says so multiple times throughout the game.

Both Saren and TIM were under the influence of the Reapers. Why then does "Catlyst Kid" portray Control and Synthesis as preferable alternatives to Destroy? He is deceiving you.

Modifié par rogueagent6, 13 mars 2012 - 01:09 .

[Abdul_777]

What if the end with the Normandy is actually the ending,its just that Shep is gonna walk out the door with the rest of the crew or (s)he is still in the medbay after taking that laz0rbeam to the face?? they just simply cut the rest of the video.Would also explain why Liara (my LI and squadmate during the teleportrush) has a smile on her face.Im not sure if smiling was uhm "appropriate" reaction to losing 3/4 of the galactic civilization and being stuck on a deserted planet.

Modifié par Abdul_777, 13 mars 2012 - 01:06 .

[Vyrii]

Abdul_777 wrote...

What if the end with the Normandy is actually the ending,its just that Shep is gonna walk out the door with the rest of the crew or (s)he is still in the medbay after taking that laz0rbeam to the face?? they just simply cut the rest of the video.Would also explain why Liara (my LI and squadmate during the teleportrush) has a smile on her face.Im not sure if smiling was uhm "appropriate" reaction to losing 3/4 of the galactic civilization and being stuck on a deserted planet.

No kidding, I'd like to say at this point that I'm prety good with Turian facial expressions and Garrus looked.... content.
Which is LAME considering that I just DIED.
>
I mean, I WANT Garrus to be happy- but geeze!
Also- I just posted a PM I got with a few links that could explain this.  Check it out http://social.biowar...423/304#9865121

[Icinix]

Vyrii wrote...

Pathero04:55 AM 2012-03-13

Not linked ME3 to my account yet (GAH!) but maybe you can judge this and post if you think it is relevant:

Someone posted this link earlier in the forum (moves so fast eh?):
http://imageshack.us/f/834/4534n.jpg/

I think that it might be important to note that someone found the following unused sound clip in the game too:


Why is it important? Sounds like Joker is shouting that whilst...doing...a...flyby... ... ...

Just like is one of the movies in the highlighted stack.

I
don't pretend to know how the game is set up but since these are in the
skippable stack because they are flagged as skippable in the game (in
the same way that a cutscene that you do not get because you haven't the
requirement, such as love scenes with people other than you LI are) but
are flagged up as skip because a certaain other condition has not been
met?

Not much to go on, but it might be something.

If you could post this in the Hallucination/Indoctrination forum I'd be grateful

This is a PM I got from Pathero, I think they bring up good points.
Sorry for posting this so late Pathero!

What do you think?  The unused clip DEFINETLY spiked my interest, it gives us evidence as to WHY joker is trying to get away from Earth, and WHY our teammates just suddenly teleport to the Normandy.
Not sure as to why the "girls" is in there though, it fits for me because I play as FemShep, however for MaleShep?

Some more evidence as to how this is going to continue.  Very good find Pathero!

All team mates were on Earth at the end. Edi, Tali, Ashley, Liara - so there are girls on the planet - although I took it as he was calling Cortez a girl "That was for Cortez."

[Elanor]

Abdul_777 wrote...

What if the end with the Normandy is actually the ending,its just that Shep is gonna walk out the door with the rest of the crew or (s)he is still in the medbay after taking that laz0rbeam to the face?? they just simply cut the rest of the video.Would also explain why Liara (my LI and squadmate during the teleportrush) has a smile on her face.Im not sure if smiling was uhm "appropriate" reaction to losing 3/4 of the galactic civilization and being stuck on a deserted planet.

...and Shep is propably dead.

[Vyrii]

Icinix wrote...

Vyrii wrote...

Pathero04:55 AM 2012-03-13

Not linked ME3 to my account yet (GAH!) but maybe you can judge this and post if you think it is relevant:

Someone posted this link earlier in the forum (moves so fast eh?):
http://imageshack.us/f/834/4534n.jpg/

I think that it might be important to note that someone found the following unused sound clip in the game too:


Why is it important? Sounds like Joker is shouting that whilst...doing...a...flyby... ... ...

Just like is one of the movies in the highlighted stack.

I
don't pretend to know how the game is set up but since these are in the
skippable stack because they are flagged as skippable in the game (in
the same way that a cutscene that you do not get because you haven't the
requirement, such as love scenes with people other than you LI are) but
are flagged up as skip because a certaain other condition has not been
met?

Not much to go on, but it might be something.

If you could post this in the Hallucination/Indoctrination forum I'd be grateful

This is a PM I got from Pathero, I think they bring up good points.
Sorry for posting this so late Pathero!

What do you think?  The unused clip DEFINETLY spiked my interest, it gives us evidence as to WHY joker is trying to get away from Earth, and WHY our teammates just suddenly teleport to the Normandy.
Not sure as to why the "girls" is in there though, it fits for me because I play as FemShep, however for MaleShep?

Some more evidence as to how this is going to continue.  Very good find Pathero!

All team mates were on Earth at the end. Edi, Tali, Ashley, Liara - so there are girls on the planet - although I took it as he was calling Cortez a girl "That was for Cortez."

This is true.  Although I hope he wasn't calling Cortez a girl.... although I could see why >.>
But this definetly means that Joker came abck to Earth to pick up the teammates, and (hopefully) Shepard as well.

[Icinix]

rogueagent6 wrote...
Remember these points:

Saren wanted join with the reapers, "A synthesis of steel and flesh, with the strenghts of both, and the weakneses of neither."

This in particular because it is actually called Synthesis as well.

The indoctrination theory fits so well because it all comes down to;

do you accept and agree with the Reapers..

..or do you sacrifice and risk everything to fight.

[VyRianS]

By the way... if you guys haven't seen:



Hold the line people.

[Flaming_Penguin]

A couple of things i found strange about the kid at the start of the game, The response the kid gives to Shepard in the vent when he tells him to take his hand seems really off. I doubt a scared child would respond to an adult, especially one who is obviously in the military with "you can't help me." this seems more like a planned phrase to put doubt in Shepard's mind possibly making him more susceptible to possible indoctrination.

Another thing Shepard seems to be the only person reacting to him, Anderson doesn't seem to notice the kid and I'm fairly sure, with his background, he would want to help the kid out if he could, and at the end of the mission when the civilians are being evacuated none of the soldiers seem to notice a child just standing there looking lost, or try and help him get in the car which is something people would naturally do seeing a kid struggling to get into a car.

Just a couple of things that sat uneasy with me.

[MDT1]

mr.surv wrote...

They said that they don't want to say anything about endings becouse of Asian players... but with no official statement they making ending matter more noticeable ....

Well what should they say?
-Sry we messed up -> would impact sales
-our ending is brilliant, your just stuck in the past -> didn't work well with DAII

[justie]

I want closure also, but this seems a little to far fetched for me to believe. The endings sucked. Theres nothing else to it.

Modifié par justie, 13 mars 2012 - 01:15 .

[njfluffy19]

Vyrii wrote...

Abdul_777 wrote...

What if the end with the Normandy is actually the ending,its just that Shep is gonna walk out the door with the rest of the crew or (s)he is still in the medbay after taking that laz0rbeam to the face?? they just simply cut the rest of the video.Would also explain why Liara (my LI and squadmate during the teleportrush) has a smile on her face.Im not sure if smiling was uhm "appropriate" reaction to losing 3/4 of the galactic civilization and being stuck on a deserted planet.

No kidding, I'd like to say at this point that I'm prety good with Turian facial expressions and Garrus looked.... content.
Which is LAME considering that I just DIED.
>
I mean, I WANT Garrus to be happy- but geeze!
Also- I just posted a PM I got with a few links that could explain this.  Check it out http://social.biowar...423/304#9865121

He's content 'cause now him and Tali can get it on.

[VonJedi1]

In re: to the growl.



I would agree that the sounds made are unlike the normal Reaper sound. Listening for it now, it actually sounds really creepy. It happens twice, once as Anderson calls to Shepard, and the other as he looks back.

I did find it odd that Anderson wouldn't ask what was there or what he was doing but completely blaze over the fact that a kid was there. The way Anderson says it is if Shepard is just standing there doing nothing in daze.

[njfluffy19]

Icinix wrote...

rogueagent6 wrote...
Remember these points:

Saren wanted join with the reapers, "A synthesis of steel and flesh, with the strenghts of both, and the weakneses of neither."

This in particular because it is actually called Synthesis as well.

The indoctrination theory fits so well because it all comes down to;

do you accept and agree with the Reapers..

..or do you sacrifice and risk everything to fight.

Playing through ME1 again and yeah, I agree, Saren wanted exactly what ending I thought I was forced to choose (Synthesis). Well, Reapers fooled me.

[Wallace West]

VyRianS wrote...

Wallace West wrote...

VyRianS wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Jesus H Christ...

It just occurred to me.

What if this theory is absolutely correct...

And Bioware, not wanting to risk another leak of their ending has chosen instead to make it to where the ending is not part of the original game... until a patch comes in when it is available in every region?

Think about it, they radically changed the game from the leaked scripts, why didn't they change things when THE ENDING VIDEOS themselves were leaked? Why did they give a statement saying "yup, those are pretty much it."

Otherwise, why the silence, if they aren't planning something? Why the fact that they have barely let out any info, beyond cryptic hints of "Just wait and see, can't comment yet."

It might be wishful thinking, but right now, I believe that Bioware has the entire ending all set up and ready... to be released in a patch when the game itself has reached maximum saturation.

It's like a magic show, the magician seems competent up until the end, when suddenly he starts failing, badly, and then, at the last moment, to the entire audience's suprise, he pulls off his biggest trick yet, to roaring applause.

I would love this as well. But don't forget BW is now run financially by EA, so all release/DLC decisions are made by EA. It is highly unlikely they would do something like this... it is financially unsound for the company. The only feasible course of action now would be that BW realizes their screwup, and issues an ending DLC, apologizing for the error OR saying this was the way they wanted it all along (which would be rubbish).

Crazy sure...but rubbish?...I don't  think so.  I mean look at where we are now? 300+ pages, over 19,000 likes on the facebook page and the polls are steadily growing by the second. Like many has said, this could either be the biggest ball being dropped in ****ing history or the most magnificent ploy that any game company has ever attempted. It's basically the most insane Post-game ARG (if it turns out to be true). Thousands of disillusioned people banning together and fighting a seemingly unfathomable enemy? Sounds familiar... 

You read my post wrongly. I didn't mean the DLC endings would be rubbish, I meant their REASON for the sudden release of an additional Ending DLC would be rubbish.

Ok, I read it again, my bad.