57139 réponses à ce sujet

[Tsantilas]

Ok so... Shepard passes out while talking to Hackett... and then the elevator thing takes Shepard up to where he meets the catalyst. Why not just let Shepard die where he passed out? The Catalyst has already won if he's supposedly this evil reaper god thing that lies to Shepard. It just doesn't make sense to me that it's all an elaborate scheme to trick him and indoctrinate him. Letting him die is a much easier solution.

- If the scene after the elevator is all in his head, then how does the citadel fire and destroy the reapers and the relays etc? He must be awake during the conversation. As far as I understand, indoctrination just causes a different way of thinking that conforms with the reapers' plans. No other character that has been indoctrinated has been shown having hallucinations and weird dream sequences.

-If Shepard has been on earth all along and it's just a dream, then again how does the citadel fire? He must have reached the citadel at some point and used the crucible. Therefor, the scene showing him breathing under the rubble at the end of the cinematic just means that he crashed back to earth, or somehow got teleported back down with space magic, or the same way he went up or whatever.

-If the control and synthesis endings are "bad endings" meaning that Shepard has been indoctrinated, why have the whole ending cinematic thing? Shouldn't it just show critical mission error, or the child transforming into harbinger and doing an evil dance or something?

[Caesar2001]

Having read all of this, another thought comes to mind... whether thinking of the dialogue with the Illusive Man in terms of 'saving Anderson' is the wrong way to look at it. If we're looking at it from an indoctrination point of view, what's more important is that you've /rejected/ the Illusive Man and his view. Essentially, you've swatted the 'devil on your shoulder' making your ultimate successful resistance to the attempt to indoctrinate you an easier task.

[Prince Keldar]

do you get more ems or assets on higher difficulties?? I have played on the default normal so I was just wondering.

[Wuyunk]

Getorex wrote...

The0ther wrote...

Tesar wrote...

PrinceOfFallout13 wrote...

people seem to forget that if you save the collectors base and get the lowest ems

the only ending choice is control

So Reapers can use hive mind for indoctrination. Bigger the EMS, more trouble for Reapers, less power they can put on Shep indoctrination, more choices they offer to Shep to not allow him to understand what they are doing. Because there is no indoctrination with understanding of it.

Or just that with low EMS, the Reapers don't bother indoctrinating him, the Reapers will still win. At best they're only half-assedly trying  to indoctrinate him, and moreso just delay him.

Clarify please...what is "EMS"?

Effective Military Strength.

Its your entire war assets minus how much galactic readyness you have.

 For example: 4500 War Assets at 72% Galactic Readyness = 3240 EMS

I may have just explained that terribly lol.

[Getorex]

Stakis wrote...

i think this is a great theory but lets think like EA here, were talking about risking losing millions, in europe the game is out for 4 days, theres still millions of copies to be sold, right now the rage about the endings is spreading at FTL speed across the web, even with a yet to come ending to all endings its still one hell of a bluff bioware is playing here, and what are the options ? a patch to enable the endings ? paid DLC ? geez... like someone pointed out that would be like paying to destroy the collectors base in ME2 and would even hurt bioware more.

This pretty much sums it up.  I'd LIKE it to be true, that there is something more to come with full release but given the ****storm over the ending as it stands...either marketing needs to be fired en mass or the developers need to see a pay cut or the execs who OK'd such a move need to be fired WITHOUT BONUSES OR GOLDEN PARACHUTES.

[iSpitfireee]

Dont listen to the ME twitter. Its just ran by PR folks

[Noob451]

Getorex wrote...

Stakis wrote...

i think this is a great theory but lets think like EA here, were talking about risking losing millions, in europe the game is out for 4 days, theres still millions of copies to be sold, right now the rage about the endings is spreading at FTL speed across the web, even with a yet to come ending to all endings its still one hell of a bluff bioware is playing here, and what are the options ? a patch to enable the endings ? paid DLC ? geez... like someone pointed out that would be like paying to destroy the collectors base in ME2 and would even hurt bioware more.

This pretty much sums it up.  I'd LIKE it to be true, that there is something more to come with full release but given the ****storm over the ending as it stands...either marketing needs to be fired en mass or the developers need to see a pay cut or the execs who OK'd such a move need to be fired WITHOUT BONUSES OR GOLDEN PARACHUTES.

why? if it works, it has the potential to be one of the greatest marketing moves ever.

[MDT1]

Tsantilas wrote...

Ok so... Shepard passes out while talking to Hackett... and then the elevator thing takes Shepard up to where he meets the catalyst. Why not just let Shepard die where he passed out? The Catalyst has already won if he's supposedly this evil reaper god thing that lies to Shepard. It just doesn't make sense to me that it's all an elaborate scheme to trick him and indoctrinate him. Letting him die is a much easier solution.

- If the scene after the elevator is all in his head, then how does the citadel fire and destroy the reapers and the relays etc? He must be awake during the conversation. As far as I understand, indoctrination just causes a different way of thinking that conforms with the reapers' plans. No other character that has been indoctrinated has been shown having hallucinations and weird dream sequences.

-If Shepard has been on earth all along and it's just a dream, then again how does the citadel fire? He must have reached the citadel at some point and used the crucible. Therefor, the scene showing him breathing under the rubble at the end of the cinematic just means that he crashed back to earth, or somehow got teleported back down with space magic, or the same way he went up or whatever.

-If the control and synthesis endings are "bad endings" meaning that Shepard has been indoctrinated, why have the whole ending cinematic thing? Shouldn't it just show critical mission error, or the child transforming into harbinger and doing an evil dance or something?

Well, if Bioware really planed to "hide" the real ending, they couldn't be to obvious...

[AnthonyUK]

Tsantilas wrote...

- If the scene after the elevator is all in his head, then how does the citadel fire and destroy the reapers and the relays etc? He must be awake during the conversation. As far as I understand, indoctrination just causes a different way of thinking that conforms with the reapers' plans. No other character that has been indoctrinated has been shown having hallucinations and weird dream sequences.

Says in the codex under Reapers > Indoctrination

http://i.imgur.com/WKTtT.jpg

[Milvushina]

PrinceOfFallout13 wrote...

people seem to forget that if you save the collectors base and get the lowest ems

the only ending choice is control

I've heard that and if true, it does imply that giving into the temptation of Reaper power in the second game resulted in an ill-prepared Shepard having no resistance to the mind games at the end.

But are we sure it's true or is it just a rumor?  I'm sure there's someone out there who's taken that path, but I couldn't find any videos on YouTube where Control was the only available choice. 

[cerberus1701]

You know, a couple things.

First, from the business end, I wouldn't put the ultimate end in the game, for no other reason than the leaks that would occur.

Script was leaked. People freaked. "These endings suck."

Then, I would know the Space Edition is coming out early. It's going to be speed run and leaked (NDAs or no NDAs) People will freak . These endings suck.

Holding them back in some fashion really the only way for me to keep some control over them. To allow for any surprise.

Now, IF all this is true, they shouldn't make you pay for it.But, then again, they might because they know people will pay.

Second, even if none of it's true. Even if the endings here are it, it's not that bad. You have spent 300+ pages exploring how the end is open to interpretation and, for the most part they are good ones.

So, if you have to, use that and finish it in your head. Make it end any way you want. Is it the same? No, but it can be satisfying all the same.

Especially if you're one of the ones that hate what you were shown.

[Getorex]

Wuyunk wrote...

Getorex wrote...

The0ther wrote...

Tesar wrote...

PrinceOfFallout13 wrote...

people seem to forget that if you save the collectors base and get the lowest ems

the only ending choice is control

So Reapers can use hive mind for indoctrination. Bigger the EMS, more trouble for Reapers, less power they can put on Shep indoctrination, more choices they offer to Shep to not allow him to understand what they are doing. Because there is no indoctrination with understanding of it.

Or just that with low EMS, the Reapers don't bother indoctrinating him, the Reapers will still win. At best they're only half-assedly trying  to indoctrinate him, and moreso just delay him.

Clarify please...what is "EMS"?

Effective Military Strength.

Its your entire war assets minus how much galactic readyness you have.

 For example: 4500 War Assets at 72% Galactic Readyness = 3240 EMS

I may have just explained that terribly lol.

Thanks.  I currently sit just before the ending goes LSD trip and was refusing to continue to avoid ruining the entire trilogy for myself.  Now I think I will actually start over (with a fixed/better looking Shepard) and try again and max out my "EMS". 

Still, the thing is the entire ending needs to be explained afterwards.  Most people don't just "get it".  Having to have it explained is the same thing as telling a joke that falls flat and then trying to rescue the joke by explaining the punchline.  Too late.  You lost the joke when you had to go and explain it.

[RobT2012]

Stakis wrote...

i think this is a great theory but lets think like EA here, were talking about risking losing millions, in europe the game is out for 4 days, theres still millions of copies to be sold, right now the rage about the endings is spreading at FTL speed across the web, even with a yet to come ending to all endings its still one hell of a bluff bioware is playing here, and what are the options ? a patch to enable the endings ? paid DLC ? geez... like someone pointed out that would be like paying to destroy the collectors base in ME2 and would even hurt bioware more.

It's not a risk for EA. They have already been paid for the games. (Apart from the people buying directly from EA online) All Video game stockists have already sent across cheques for hundreds of thousands of pounds to have these dics process and burnt to be on the shelves already for release date.

Even in parts of the world still to release, the games are already paid for by the retailers. 

Really think there is a good chance this is all planned to allow a large number of players to get through the full campaign in their own time, before releasing the ending scenarios. Preventing the endings being leaked 40 hours after launch and ruining the full effect/feeling when the game is finally truly completed by us players.

[Nette]

Wuyunk wrote...

Anthraxius Omega wrote...

One IMPORTANT thing, adding the tweets together:

Did EA/Bioware not suggest to play the first playthrough with a ME3 created character (not imported)?

Has anyone played a 2. Playthrough and got to level 60? My imported char got lvl 56 on the first playthrough.. and i consider a second now.

I played 45hrs with my ME2 import, started at level 30, did EVERYTHING the game had to offer and finshed the game at lvl 57.

I have no idea how you'd get level 60 without DLC or a patch :/

You do it like in ME1, import ME3 character and play again. You will start with the level you had when you finished the game.

[LadyAly]

Means you would be forced to play MP - which isn't true.

http://social.biowar...index/9665384/1

So my question is - others who getting the rubble scene did all MP ??

Modifié par LadyAly, 13 mars 2012 - 02:45 .

[Little Lummo]

Does anybody here have a twitter account i could follow just so its easy to kinda be in the loop, not easy trying to catch up with countless pages on your iPhone when you're out lol

[J4N3_M3]

Tsantilas wrote...

Ok so... Shepard passes out while talking to Hackett... and then the elevator thing takes Shepard up to where he meets the catalyst. Why not just let Shepard die where he passed out? The Catalyst has already won if he's supposedly this evil reaper god thing that lies to Shepard. It just doesn't make sense to me that it's all an elaborate scheme to trick him and indoctrinate him. Letting him die is a much easier solution.

- If the scene after the elevator is all in his head, then how does the citadel fire and destroy the reapers and the relays etc? He must be awake during the conversation. As far as I understand, indoctrination just causes a different way of thinking that conforms with the reapers' plans. No other character that has been indoctrinated has been shown having hallucinations and weird dream sequences.

-If Shepard has been on earth all along and it's just a dream, then again how does the citadel fire? He must have reached the citadel at some point and used the crucible. Therefor, the scene showing him breathing under the rubble at the end of the cinematic just means that he crashed back to earth, or somehow got teleported back down with space magic, or the same way he went up or whatever.

-If the control and synthesis endings are "bad endings" meaning that Shepard has been indoctrinated, why have the whole ending cinematic thing? Shouldn't it just show critical mission error, or the child transforming into harbinger and doing an evil dance or something?

just stop trolling this thread already. 

[Evindell]

Tsantilas wrote...

Ok so... Shepard passes out while talking to Hackett... and then the elevator thing takes Shepard up to where he meets the catalyst. Why not just let Shepard die where he passed out? The Catalyst has already won if he's supposedly this evil reaper god thing that lies to Shepard. It just doesn't make sense to me that it's all an elaborate scheme to trick him and indoctrinate him. Letting him die is a much easier solution.

- If the scene after the elevator is all in his head, then how does the citadel fire and destroy the reapers and the relays etc? He must be awake during the conversation. As far as I understand, indoctrination just causes a different way of thinking that conforms with the reapers' plans. No other character that has been indoctrinated has been shown having hallucinations and weird dream sequences.

-If Shepard has been on earth all along and it's just a dream, then again how does the citadel fire? He must have reached the citadel at some point and used the crucible. Therefor, the scene showing him breathing under the rubble at the end of the cinematic just means that he crashed back to earth, or somehow got teleported back down with space magic, or the same way he went up or whatever.

-If the control and synthesis endings are "bad endings" meaning that Shepard has been indoctrinated, why have the whole ending cinematic thing? Shouldn't it just show critical mission error, or the child transforming into harbinger and doing an evil dance or something?

I think the point is the Citadel hasn't fired yet, because you technically aren't up there to fire it. It's still waiting.

And also, people don't want to believe that Shepard is back on Earth, breathing (while he/she died last time from reentry), becaue of "space magic". That would be a disservice to the entire series. More than the endings stand now.

And telling you that the Synthesis and Control endings are bad ingame would be counter to what this theory stands for. That is, you're supposed to believe you made the right choice, but you didn't.

I blindly choose to believe this theory. I'm still being realistic, but I need to believe this in order to play.

[njfluffy19]

RobT2012 wrote...

Stakis wrote...

i think this is a great theory but lets think like EA here, were talking about risking losing millions, in europe the game is out for 4 days, theres still millions of copies to be sold, right now the rage about the endings is spreading at FTL speed across the web, even with a yet to come ending to all endings its still one hell of a bluff bioware is playing here, and what are the options ? a patch to enable the endings ? paid DLC ? geez... like someone pointed out that would be like paying to destroy the collectors base in ME2 and would even hurt bioware more.

It's not a risk for EA. They have already been paid for the games. (Apart from the people buying directly from EA online) All Video game stockists have already sent across cheques for hundreds of thousands of pounds to have these dics process and burnt to be on the shelves already for release date.

Even in parts of the world still to release, the games are already paid for by the retailers. 

Really think there is a good chance this is all planned to allow a large number of players to get through the full campaign in their own time, before releasing the ending scenarios. Preventing the endings being leaked 40 hours after launch and ruining the full effect/feeling when the game is finally truly completed by us players.

They're actually getting a lot of bad press, and the game price has already dropped from $60 to $40. Hallucination or not, the idea of hiding this couldn't have been a good one.

[pfeenix]

Yeah, I think I'm def. leaning towards the indoctrination theory. There is kind of a lot going on to support it, and if it's just blind hope, I don't care.

One of my personal reasons for supporting this theory? (Forgive me if this point has already been covered, admittedly, I haven't yet read this entire thread. It's a long thread) In February, it was hinted that it might be a good idea if we were to save our game files for me3. This has irked me, since any future ME plans are supposedly Shep-less, why would I need my save? But if the Indoctrination Theory is correct...well, I could see why it might be a good idea to keep them...

Source: http://www.oxmonline...-effect-3-saves

[k8ee]

FugitiveMind wrote...

Same here on the "got my new theory here" sentiment...

Just scanning along to see if there's anything that hasn't been covered in detail yet...

There isn't.

All the "new" theories so far have been covered in the previous 300 pages, but noone is going to wade through all that at once, just us crazies who've been following since page 2.

The good side of this is what started as our crackpot theories make sense now, and multiple people bringing the same conclusions to the party after wave upon wave of people complete the game makes it even less crazy. Independant support is good...

lol, I know, I've been sitting back and watching the action too. I don't know about you, but seeing so many more people on board makes me feel way less crazy... Those early days... those were rough.

[Chromie]

Timpe wrote...

Wuyunk wrote...

Anthraxius Omega wrote...

One IMPORTANT thing, adding the tweets together:

Did EA/Bioware not suggest to play the first playthrough with a ME3 created character (not imported)?

Has anyone played a 2. Playthrough and got to level 60? My imported char got lvl 56 on the first playthrough.. and i consider a second now.

I played 45hrs with my ME2 import, started at level 30, did EVERYTHING the game had to offer and finshed the game at lvl 57.

I have no idea how you'd get level 60 without DLC or a patch :/

You did all that on insanity difficulty? Never applied medi-gel? Had a 'perfect' playthrough to import (all squadmates alive etc.)?

Edit: And from what I have heard of, your lvl doesn't matter in the end. It's just the EMS which affects.

If it weren't for the damn timed sidequests and non updating journal I would have been 60. 

[mdp310]

I was going through the art book, and quite a few parts of it talk about The Illusive man being the final boss. It also made me think of a post on here, I don't remember by who. But it was from someone who either had an early version of the game, or went into the files, and said "You guys know TIM is the final boss, right?" or something like that.

And we all know that fight didn't happen. So......maybe that's what's coming up.

About getting to level 60...it's probably impossible on a first playthrough. But it should be fairly easy to get on a NG+. 
I never got to 60 on ME1 until a new game + playthrough. Probably not a big deal.

Modifié par mdp310, 13 mars 2012 - 02:50 .

[AnthonyUK]

LadyAly wrote...

Means you would be forced to play MP - which isn't true.

http://social.biowar...index/9665384/1

So my question is - others who getting the rubble scene did all MP ??

I would guess so yes.

And im sure there is a way to get it without multiplyer but it needs a near perfect play through choosing all the options that give you increased war assets, getting between 8-10k war assets would be an extreme PITA.

[Stakis]

Noob451 wrote...

Getorex wrote...

Stakis wrote...

i think this is a great theory but lets think like EA here, were talking about risking losing millions, in europe the game is out for 4 days, theres still millions of copies to be sold, right now the rage about the endings is spreading at FTL speed across the web, even with a yet to come ending to all endings its still one hell of a bluff bioware is playing here, and what are the options ? a patch to enable the endings ? paid DLC ? geez... like someone pointed out that would be like paying to destroy the collectors base in ME2 and would even hurt bioware more.

This pretty much sums it up.  I'd LIKE it to be true, that there is something more to come with full release but given the ****storm over the ending as it stands...either marketing needs to be fired en mass or the developers need to see a pay cut or the execs who OK'd such a move need to be fired WITHOUT BONUSES OR GOLDEN PARACHUTES.

why? if it works, it has the potential to be one of the greatest marketing moves ever.

thats one hell of a big " IF " m8, even for the likes of EA.  

If this theory is true then we will get a update real soon from bioware, if its not true then we may get a DLC based on the feedback they get here , but that will take half a year to come out.