57139 réponses à ce sujet

[Gowienczyk]

That's a good point byne, wouldn't be surprised if that's the link. Considering Object Rho is optional.

[Turtlicious]

byne wrote...

One thing I forgot completely about until EDI just brought it up is the Reaper IFF installed aboard the Normandy.

Not sure if someone else has already brought it up, but is it possible that the IFF itself could be indoctrinating the crew of the Normandy?

It could explain why Shepard slowly gets more indoctrinated over the course of the game, and doesnt start off indoctrinated: until the Reapers invaded you were grounded and not aboard the Normandy. You only actually had the IFF for a very short time in ME2, but its mentioned when you talk to your squad on Earth for the last time that its been months since you left Earth, which seems like plenty of time for the 'slow, patient indoctrination' mentioned in the codex.

I didn't think about that either, which would explain WHY indoctrination starts on the normandy. I like this a lot, but not only because it supports my 2A theory.

By the way, everyone go back to the first page for the newest additions.

THE THEORIES. (by Turtlicious)

There are two theories for WHEN
Shepard's subtle indoctrination starts, these theories will be numbered,
there are two theories when his full blown hallucinations start. These
are lettered. Simply pick a number and a letter, or just a number, or
just a letter. This way, you can have your special theory.

theory
1 is that indoctrination is at the start of ME3 and that during the
whole game every dream is more and more indoctrination. Also, there is
an indoctrination device on the normandy, (supported by Vega mentioning a
Hum all throughout the game) This is supported by the re-apperance of
the RGC all througout the game. People disagree because people believe
Indoctrination, (from now on condensed to ID) is not as subtle as that,
and would not only affect dreams.

Theory 2 is that it happens on
the Normandy, that the child is real in the beginning, but once on the
Normandy, you start to get indoctrinated, which is supported by Vega
hearing the Hum. The same reasons as above but SLIGHTLY more credible
due to the poster of the missing earth child. People disagree with
Theory 2 for the same reasons as theory 1.

Theory A is what I
like to call the "Ilos Run" theory, that you're ID is full blown on the
shuttle as soon as you leave the shuttle. This theory concludes that the
shuttle was blown up at some point, that you were buried beneath
rubble, and harbinger is trying to indoctrinate you to retrieve the
body. It is supported by the dreamy quality of the run itself, and the
lack of squadmates following you, soon as the ID gets stronger, you go
full on dream mode. This is to compensate for the "Dream Trees" at the
very beginning of the run

Theory B is that your full blown
indoctrination is not until you get pwnt by the laser. and that at that
point you are passed out at the crucible, and Harbinger is doing what he
has always wanted, (ID of Shep) This is supported due to the realistic
look of the run down the hill.

[Lambchopz]

God this thread is still going.

Last I posted was like 5 or 6 hours ago, right after it topped 300 pages.

So you all have lopped on about 20 more pages to this thing.

Good god, this better happen.

[Ecmoose]

BlackDragonBane wrote...

BlackDragonBane wrote...

 

Going to analyze somethings that have been brought up before, but bear repeating.

0:40 - you hear, I'm assuming, Coates over the comm channel go 'God... they're all gone.'

0:46 - you hear the following conversation:
- Female voice: Did we get anyone to the beam?
- Coates; Negative. Our entire force was decimated

Now, if this was reality, Coates would have seen Shepard get up from where they had fallen and approaching the beam. Such is not the case. The comm link just goes silent from that point.

at about 1:00, Shepard picks up the magic infinte god pistol



If you look behind you, the ENTIRE background is blurred beyond recognition and much of the area you JUST passed through appears to be missing. There is also the two dead trees that were not there during the mad dash approach to the Conduit.

2:31 - You hear Anderson over the comm link, yet if Coates is correct and the team is wiped out, how is Anderson contacting Shepard?

2:55 - When asked if he is up in the Citadel as well, Anderson says he followed Shepard up, yet we did not see him ANYWHERE on the battlefield. Plus, he says 'we' distinctly, meaning others made it on the Citadel, yet we don't see them and they supposedly were dropped off somewhere else by the Conduit.

3:30 - Shepard picks up ANOTER infite god-pistol. What happened to the one he/she just had? If you noticed before, the first pistol is mysteriously gone.

4:56 - The movine panels bear a striking resemblence to the engine system on the Shadow Broker's ship. This may be just level design but if you look on either side, it goes as far as you can see and you see no other avenues of reaching the console room.

6:00 - Somehow, Anderson beats Shepard to the console room despite there being no other paths and not seeing Anderson either behind or in front of you until this point.

6:13 - The Huskified Illusive Man is suddenly right behind you and there was no indication he was even ON the Citadel. You also begin to hear whispers as he talks and the oily black shadows appear on the edges of the screen. You will also hear a Reaper like deep trilling noise accompanying this.

8:15 - TIM forces Shepard to shoot Anderson. Jump to 8:22 and pay VERY CLOSE attention to where Anderson has their hand.



Notice where Shepard's arm is and the fact that she is suddenly bleeding profusely when she wasn't moments prior to shooting Anderson? Look again when Shepard is outside the Citadel and talking to Catalyst.


Notice the blood on her arm is suddenly gone?

There are WAY too many inconsistences in just the scene leading up to meeting Catalyst for it not to be anything more than an indoctrinated halluciation. There's is symbolism in the conversaiton with Anderson and TIM, missing envrionments and added elements that weren't there before. There is too much 'wrong' with this whole sequence for it to be oversight on Bioware developers. SOMETHING is going on here beyond what we've seen.

For the non-believers, new comers, and those that might have missed it.

I'm going to be working on my own little vid once I have all the footage compiled of the application of the indoctrination theory through all the games and DLC.

I like this post. I'm just going to debunk one part of it. The Prothean VI tells us that TIM is on the Citadel when we leave the Cerberus base. So, TIM showing up isn't too surprising and doesn't seem like proof of hallucination, just Shepard using information he knows to populate his dream.

[MDT1]

Darjeer wrote...

cobnut wrote...

Darjeer wrote...
*snip*

Shepard hallucinates everything after the laser beam due to his indoctrination and wakes up after he made the right choice and beats the reaper in his mind. Nothing you mentioned speaks against this theory.

Nothing? I thought I was pretty clear about what speaks against it, namely the whole "Crucible has been destroyed" -part.

The only way this hallucination theory would makes sense for me is when I expect a DLC with an additional level, where you realy defeat the reapers after you wake up in front of the beam.

But the "Crucible has been destroyed" part doesn't make sense if the Catalyst is was he says to be either.
He want's Shepard to choose and sees that something has to be changed.

[Wuyunk]

Pausing dead on 5:45 here is almost enough evidence on its own for me that Shep is under the effects of indoctrination lol

http://www.youtube.c...zhHtqgY#t=5m45s

His face in the close up and his surroundings, its all just so unreal, never have we once seen him like that before.

Not to mention all the constant bloody whispering and oily blackness on the edge of the screen! Honestly, the more this thread go's on, the more amazed I am that EVERYONE isn't 100% sure this is indoctrination, and I only think that's because we haven't seen a developer do this before, so part of us is worried the endings are just plain dumb lol.

I am looking forward to the inevitable reveal by Bioware, the only thing I'm hoping is that it won't be priced dlc, because that would be backhanded.

[killershotz]

Turtlicious wrote...

byne wrote...

One thing I forgot completely about until EDI just brought it up is the Reaper IFF installed aboard the Normandy.

Not sure if someone else has already brought it up, but is it possible that the IFF itself could be indoctrinating the crew of the Normandy?

It could explain why Shepard slowly gets more indoctrinated over the course of the game, and doesnt start off indoctrinated: until the Reapers invaded you were grounded and not aboard the Normandy. You only actually had the IFF for a very short time in ME2, but its mentioned when you talk to your squad on Earth for the last time that its been months since you left Earth, which seems like plenty of time for the 'slow, patient indoctrination' mentioned in the codex.

I didn't think about that either, which would explain WHY indoctrination starts on the normandy. I like this a lot, but not only because it supports my 2A theory.

By the way, everyone go back to the first page for the newest additions.

THE THEORIES. (by Turtlicious)

There are two theories for WHEN
Shepard's subtle indoctrination starts, these theories will be numbered,
there are two theories when his full blown hallucinations start. These
are lettered. Simply pick a number and a letter, or just a number, or
just a letter. This way, you can have your special theory.

theory
1 is that indoctrination is at the start of ME3 and that during the
whole game every dream is more and more indoctrination. Also, there is
an indoctrination device on the normandy, (supported by Vega mentioning a
Hum all throughout the game) This is supported by the re-apperance of
the RGC all througout the game. People disagree because people believe
Indoctrination, (from now on condensed to ID) is not as subtle as that,
and would not only affect dreams.

Theory 2 is that it happens on
the Normandy, that the child is real in the beginning, but once on the
Normandy, you start to get indoctrinated, which is supported by Vega
hearing the Hum. The same reasons as above but SLIGHTLY more credible
due to the poster of the missing earth child. People disagree with
Theory 2 for the same reasons as theory 1.

Theory A is what I
like to call the "Ilos Run" theory, that you're ID is full blown on the
shuttle as soon as you leave the shuttle. This theory concludes that the
shuttle was blown up at some point, that you were buried beneath
rubble, and harbinger is trying to indoctrinate you to retrieve the
body. It is supported by the dreamy quality of the run itself, and the
lack of squadmates following you, soon as the ID gets stronger, you go
full on dream mode. This is to compensate for the "Dream Trees" at the
very beginning of the run

Theory B is that your full blown
indoctrination is not until you get pwnt by the laser. and that at that
point you are passed out at the crucible, and Harbinger is doing what he
has always wanted, (ID of Shep) This is supported due to the realistic
look of the run down the hill.

These are very good theories that I'm inclined to believe. I'm wondering, where's the poster of the missing child and what does RGC mean?

[Evindell]

Wolf_in_the_Meadow wrote...

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

Wolf_in_the_Meadow wrote...

This thread is growing too fast to read...

Anyway, in case this hasn't been mentioned, the art book which came with the N7CE has 3 pieces of information.

1) The final fight is supposed to be an actual fight, against a more Reaperised TIM.

2) Shepard never visits the keeper tunnels in ME3.

3) The Corridor of Death right after the beam was originally drawn up to be on TIM's station, right before you fight him.

Seems off if the final fight was changed randomly after the art book was finalised.


Also, don't know if this was mentioned, but why would all the humans in the Corridor of Death be dead and in piles if they were meant to be part of a Reaper? They melted them in ME2...

The art book states that they removed the TIM Monster and the Corridor of Death from Cronos Station.  I'm not quite sure where you are going with the keeper tunnel thing though.

It says, and I quote:

"One of the plans on the drawing board was to have the Illusive Man turn into a Reaper creature for the final battle. Eventually, this plan was scrapped, since we wanted to give players the satisfaction of fighting a character they know rather than a random creature."

It doesn't say they removed the fight only that the change in TIM was less extreme.

The art book doesn't actually say the CoD was ever on Chronos, only that it's what the room may have looked like if you'd fought TIM in space. The room before the final confrontation, which is kinda what it's still used for, but it doesn't have Cerberus bodies in it.

In regards to the Keeper Tunnels... well, you're in a tunnel which looks nothing like what Shepard has seen on the rest of the Citedal, and it has a Keeper in it. As the Keepers are in charge of maintianing the Citadel, it stands to reason they go everywhere in it. Thus, you are in a Keeper Tunnel. Possibly a bit of a stretch, but...

Sooo...where was our fight? I read parts of the artbook before I started the game, and TIM's was one of them. It didn't ruin too many things because I assumed we'd have to "fight" him in some capacity, and then I saw the part about "fighting a character we knew, rather than a random creature". Were they trying to say our dialogue with him was a fight? Because, while you can use the term "fight" to mean a verbal battle in books, maybe movies, etc., using the term "fight" for a video game means a physical battle. Or, at least, it invokes the expectations of a physical confrontation.

So...where's my fight? I want my fight. I want to bring Harbinger down after I wake up...

[TurambarEA]

I'm not sure if it's been pointed out, but also note that after the 'endings' you're put back on the Normandy, right before you launch the attack on Cerberus. If they were going to give us new endings, then surely that would be the place to put you - so you have a chance to finish any side quests you didn't do and get everything ready for the point of no return again, to get the ending you want.

Admittedly that's where they put you after the finale of DA:O but it still fits with the theory/theories in the OP.

[Fattness132]

killershotz wrote...

Turtlicious wrote...

byne wrote...

One thing I forgot completely about until EDI just brought it up is the Reaper IFF installed aboard the Normandy.

Not sure if someone else has already brought it up, but is it possible that the IFF itself could be indoctrinating the crew of the Normandy?

It could explain why Shepard slowly gets more indoctrinated over the course of the game, and doesnt start off indoctrinated: until the Reapers invaded you were grounded and not aboard the Normandy. You only actually had the IFF for a very short time in ME2, but its mentioned when you talk to your squad on Earth for the last time that its been months since you left Earth, which seems like plenty of time for the 'slow, patient indoctrination' mentioned in the codex.

I didn't think about that either, which would explain WHY indoctrination starts on the normandy. I like this a lot, but not only because it supports my 2A theory.

By the way, everyone go back to the first page for the newest additions.

THE THEORIES. (by Turtlicious)

There are two theories for WHEN
Shepard's subtle indoctrination starts, these theories will be numbered,
there are two theories when his full blown hallucinations start. These
are lettered. Simply pick a number and a letter, or just a number, or
just a letter. This way, you can have your special theory.

theory
1 is that indoctrination is at the start of ME3 and that during the
whole game every dream is more and more indoctrination. Also, there is
an indoctrination device on the normandy, (supported by Vega mentioning a
Hum all throughout the game) This is supported by the re-apperance of
the RGC all througout the game. People disagree because people believe
Indoctrination, (from now on condensed to ID) is not as subtle as that,
and would not only affect dreams.

Theory 2 is that it happens on
the Normandy, that the child is real in the beginning, but once on the
Normandy, you start to get indoctrinated, which is supported by Vega
hearing the Hum. The same reasons as above but SLIGHTLY more credible
due to the poster of the missing earth child. People disagree with
Theory 2 for the same reasons as theory 1.

Theory A is what I
like to call the "Ilos Run" theory, that you're ID is full blown on the
shuttle as soon as you leave the shuttle. This theory concludes that the
shuttle was blown up at some point, that you were buried beneath
rubble, and harbinger is trying to indoctrinate you to retrieve the
body. It is supported by the dreamy quality of the run itself, and the
lack of squadmates following you, soon as the ID gets stronger, you go
full on dream mode. This is to compensate for the "Dream Trees" at the
very beginning of the run

Theory B is that your full blown
indoctrination is not until you get pwnt by the laser. and that at that
point you are passed out at the crucible, and Harbinger is doing what he
has always wanted, (ID of Shep) This is supported due to the realistic
look of the run down the hill.

These are very good theories that I'm inclined to believe. I'm wondering, where's the poster of the missing child and what does RGC mean?

RGC = Reaper God Child i believe

[KroganBillie]

solidsnake78 wrote...

May not mean anything, but when when get hit by the beam it fades to white, in films and tv dosent that usually mean dream? Like at the end of Total Recall?

"Give these people air!"

[Dap Brannigan]

It's good odds that one of your squad is also indoctrinated and a traitor. All wars have their traitors.

I wonder if it's Vega since he's been hearing that hum.

[Elenterx]

Anyone else pissed off at that IGN article talking about ME3 Multiplayer dlc coming up?

[k8ee]

Ellythe wrote...

If this theory turns out to be true, I want a tshirt that says "I survived the Indoctrination Check of 2012", with (Damn you, Bioware!) in smaller writing beneath.

lol, yes please

[Golferguy758]

Would like to point out a couple things that will inevitably ve buried. One. Indoctrination involves ghosts whispering to you. in the dreams throughout the game ghosts of you dead team whisper to you. You also see ghosts in your dreams exemplified by the black oil tendrils

[Auresta]

No one addressed this person's question and I'd like to see insight, in relation to low EMS and high EMS affecting the star-brat's dialogue and choices offered:

"Yes, it does, but I've also heard that if you saved the collector base in ME2 that the only default option you get with a low EMS on the citadel is Control, whereas if you don't save the base your only low EMS option is Destroy. Has anyone personally seen this proved?"

[Ona Demonie]

Full Comprised List of Evidence for New Comers:
1) The Theory isn't "Shepard has always been indoctrinated since the beginning of ME3". Its "Harbinger is attempting to indoctrinate Shepard AFTER Shepard is hit by the beam".
2) The moment Shepard wakes up, Coats reports that nobody made it to the Conduit, yet Shepard is walking towards it.
3) Depending on your EMS, you'll either see your squadmates dead (low) or not there (high).
4) Despite that area being completely destroyed, there are three trees in the area.
5) You have unlimited ammo through the game, even when you're at the Citadel and there's nothing to shoot at.
6) Shepard's Gun = Shepard's Willpower
7) Once you're inside the Citadel, Anderson says he followed you in. Yet, he gets to the console first and if he did indeed follow you in, why did he not report to Coats that Shepard and him are heading inside?
8) All the dead bodies have the same face and are bald.
9) Anderson notes that the walls are moving. Recall back to the Derelict Reaper in ME2. If you listened to the logs, the scientists noted that they had shared memories, the walls moved, things appeared, etc. It can also be noted that Anderson says "it's dark like the Collector base".
10) Parts of the citadel look like parts from the Shadow Broker base.
11) You may have noticed "1M1" on a part of the Citadel. To your left, it's "1M1". To your right, it's reversed/mirrored. "1M1" is also a part of optics.
12) Illusive Man appears out of nowhere.
13) There are "oily, black" lines around the screen whenever the indoctrinated Illusive Man speaks or does something significant.
14) Despite the Citadel being closed, you can see cars driving in the back ground.
15) If you choose the Paragon route, Illusive Man will commit suicide a la Saren style.
16) Hackett talks to the Commander while on the Citadel... but it was reported that no one made it. So how did Hackett know Shepard was in the Citadel?
17) When lifted up, the Starchild is a "ghostly presence".
18) Depending on your EMS, the Starchild will either say an angry "Why are you here?" (low) or a calm, yet commanding "Wake Up" (high).
19) The Starchild's voice is a mixture of MaleShep, FemShep, and the child's VA. Some claim you can also hear Harbinger.
20) The Starchild puts emphasis on how bad that Destroy ending will be by noting that you would kill synthetic life, including the Geth. He also mentions that Shepard is partially synthetic, implying you will die as well.
21) The Starchild will hesitate his answer when Shepard asks "And the Reapers will obey me?". He pauses for 2 seconds and then says "Yes".
22) The Starchild will say that Synthesis is the final stage of evolutionary life. This is what the Reapers always wanted.
23) By choosing Control or Synthesis, Shepard will die regardlessly. This means Shepard lost and he is fully indoctrinated.
24) Control's color is blue (Paragon) while Destroy's color is red (Renegade). Harbinger is tricking not Shepard, but the PLAYER that Control is the good ending.
25) Destroy ending is the only ending where Shepard is alive/wakes up.
26) The Normandy scene is a way for Shepard to imagine that the people closest to him are okay and that they landed on a sunny, lush planet, filled with necessary things to sustain life. Many crewmembers through out ME2 and ME3 have said they would have wanted to go somewhere "sunny" or to a "beach" (yes, there's a beach on that planet).
27) Shepard wakes up back on London because the Citadel wasn't made out of concrete. You can also hear the wind in the background. There is no wind in space or the Citadel.
28) James Vega at one point mentions "Do you hear that humming noise? Or is that just me?". EDI will also says that the Normandy still have the Reaper IFF.
29) The Dreams will get more and more details as the story progresses. At first, it's just the child you're following. The second one has whispers and "oily, black, ghostly" figures. The third one has more ghostly, black figures and more whispers. In my playthrough, I heard Liara's and Kaidan's whispers, saying "Shepard". The final one ends with Shepard hugging/embracing the kid, smiling as they both get burned.
30) Shepard has been more exposed to Reapers and Reaper tech than anyone else on the squad.
31) Notice how no one notices the child throughout the game. No one helps him get on the shuttle and Anderson doesn't ask Shepard what Shepard was doing.
32) A scared child wouldn't say "You can't help me". They would say "Help!", "Save me!", and/or "I'm scared!".
33) When Shepard turns away from the child in the beginning, you can hear a growl. In the ME Novels, Paul Grayson would hear growls when he snapped out of it. The growl is a different sound than what Reapers normally make.
34) The kid disappears in the duct, with no noise or anything.
35) In the ME artbook, the child is "the face of humanity of one that Shepard couldn't save". In a way, the Reapers (or Harbinger) is using the child to taunt Shepard, saying he cannot save them. In ME2, both throughout the main campaign and Arrival DLC, Harbinger said it is inevitable that Shepard will lose.
36) Notice how Harbinger barely speaks in ME3, yet he was a huge role in ME2. You only see Harbinger for a good minute, but he flies away when you wake up. The Child is actually Harbinger, playing on Shepard's emotion to show how weak Shepard is and that he will fail.
37) The reason why Harbinger didn't kill Shepard or force him to choose Control or Synthesis is because Shepard is still resisting. Harbinger then tries another tactic: Persuasion.
38) Indoctrinate has been a huge role throughout the ME universe. However, it is more prominent in ME3.
39) If you choose Control or Synthesis, look at Shepard's eyes. They will turn exactly like Illusive Man's and Saren's. Thus, Shepard has been indoctrinated.
If I missed anything, let me know.

Modifié par Ona Demonie, 13 mars 2012 - 04:37 .

[MDT1]

Wuyunk wrote...

Pausing dead on 5:45 here is almost enough evidence on its own for me that Shep is under the effects of indoctrination lol

http://www.youtube.c...zhHtqgY#t=5m45s

His face in the close up and his surroundings, its all just so unreal, never have we once seen him like that before.

Not to mention all the constant bloody whispering and oily blackness on the edge of the screen! Honestly, the more this thread go's on, the more amazed I am that EVERYONE isn't 100% sure this is indoctrination, and I only think that's because we haven't seen a developer do this before, so part of us is worried the endings are just plain dumb lol.

I am looking forward to the inevitable reveal by Bioware, the only thing I'm hoping is that it won't be priced dlc, because that would be backhanded.

Well but if the endings are real, at this point Shepard is indoctrinated by TIM.

[Mini Jo]

Elenterx wrote...

Anyone else pissed off at that IGN article talking about ME3 Multiplayer dlc coming up?

This is not what this thread is about.

[njfluffy19]

killershotz wrote...


These are very good theories that I'm inclined to believe. I'm wondering, where's the poster of the missing child and what does RGC mean?

The poster of the child is in the Refuge Dock in the Citadel.

RGC... Reaper Gratification Child! Durrrr...

[Rob_K1]

Little Lummo wrote...

Rob_K1 wrote...

Been thinking about this too. I cleared the game yesterday.

I'm not sure if it's been mentioned yet, but I'd like to draw your attention to specific points in the videos below:

Kid dream sequence

Go to around 7:47. Listen to the sounds. In particular, the wind. Then, listen to the music around 8:20.

Approaching the conduit

Go to around 16:02. Doesn't the wind and such familiar? I know, I know, it's wind... but still. Even when Shepard gets 'hit' or 'knocked out', the tune sounds similar to the one in the dream sequence with the kid, as the next scene loads. Not exactly the same, but similar.

Talking with the Illusive Man

Go to around 4:21. As Shepard's actions are being controlled, that is one heck of a strange noise. Possibly fits in with noises mentioned in the Indoctrination codex entry? Either way, it's one heck of a funny noise. Note that Shepard also seems to be suffering from bad headaches as he is being controlled. The headaches are definitely referenced in the codex entry anyway and they were mentioned in ME 2. Also, Anderson and the Illusive Man, if the theory is correct, would represent two diferent parts of Shepard's conscience. One fighting the effects of succumbing and one wanting to succumb.

Talking with the 'child'

Finally, go to around 3:21. Now then, all of the above I can chalk up to me reading too much into things, quite possibly. However, the child's words around this point, I cannot simply chalk up to me reading too much into things and clinging onto false hope (keep in mind I have no problem with the endings either, though more would be nice).

So, what has me dead set on thinking it's a dream/indoctrination attempt? The child says that if Shepard picks the destroy ending, he'd wipe out all synthetic life. The child also says that Shepard is partly synthetic. To me, that implies that Shepard would also be killed. Does it imply the same to others? So, if Shepard would be destroyed, why exactly is he seen breathing if you get the 'perfect' ending?

That's not even touching the rubble either, as I'm trying to not mention things people already have. (Apologies if others have mentioned these things). Also, again, the tune at this point again seemed similar in tone to the dream sequence.

So again, aside from the last point I raised here, I can chalk everything up to me reading too much into things. Surely, if everything the child said was true etc., then there should be no way Shepard could survive the destroy ending. This is ignoring everything else Shepard would need to survive as well, meaning the fall to earth/explosion.

Edit: What I cannot explain though is why that epilogue scene with the grandfather and child plays no matter what choice you make. If it is a dream/hallucination/indoctrination attempt, then surely the Reapers would win? Unless people do it without him, but he was just integral in giving the galaxy the chance to win, therefore still being heralded as a hero.

Some good catches there! Have we got some post somewhere to summarise all the evidence we have so far?

And dont know if it was just me, but i hated watching that clip with Shep/Ashley, it totally felt like my Shep was cheating on Kaidan:P

Going to quote myself for emphasis here and to backup my point, rather than type everything out again. There is one thing that I believe no-one can deny being out of place and it is bolded.

So, if it's implied by the child that choosing destroy would wipe out all synthetic life, including Shepard, how is he able to be shown breathing at the end?

Simply put, if everything is to be taken at face value, it shouldn't be possible.

And glad you found my catches good finds, Little Lummo.

Also, Icinix mentioned about the walk to the Conduit sharing sounds with the dream sequence when overlayed? I don't know how to do that but if someone does or has a link to the sound being overlayed somewhere, that'd be great.

[mr.surv]

hmmm.

Maybe I miss something in whole series... but did Protheans ever build synthetics?
If not.....

[ogtrplganggrl]

RaeAlethea wrote...

I've been following this thread since the beginning, all 300+ pages of it, and this is the only theory that makes sense to me. Then again, I might still be in the denial stage of grief

You took the words right out of my mouth.

[Ainyan42]

Monochrome Wench wrote...

One thing (as if there is *only* one thing) bugging me about the ending is the "Wake up" line. It makes NO sense. Let me show

First we have what Shepard looks like at the beginning of the section. Note she is kneeling with eyes open. She is not asleep.


She shakes her head and looks up. Again obviously not asleep


Child come over, and says wake up.


Doesn't it seem odd that the child would say "Wake Up" when Shepard is already awake. Well, turns out Shepard is not actually awake. The child is Shepards subconsious trying to get Shepard to wake up in the real world. The fight isn't over yet... WAKE UP!

Thank you! My friend said I was misremembering when I told him the same thing - that Shep was laying down when the child comes over and says 'wake up'. I remember thinking it was really strange that he would say that to me when my shep was already pushing to her hands and knees and clearly struggling to get up.

[Evindell]

mr.surv wrote...

hmmm.

Maybe I miss something in whole series... but did Protheans ever build synthetics?
If not.....

I believe Javik says they did.