57139 réponses à ce sujet

[AscendBaldur]

Obviously you guys getting pissy about Devs being cryptic on Twitter, have never been behind an NDA (Non Disclosure Agreement) before. I have, when I was in multiple SWTOR betas. The Devs are under an NDA ATLEAST until the 15th Asian release. They CAN'T say anything. To do so would be committing career suicide.

[ArkkAngel007]

Golferguy758 wrote...

Reiterating why you can get a crucible has been destroyed ending and how it supports the hallucination/indoctrination theory. You are supposedly right next to the crucible at the end. If it was destroyed you would see it being destroyed as it is you dont because you aren't there. Point 2. The crucible is near the battle at the time of the charge. Taking too long to snap out of the hallucination/indoctrination means the crucible is destroyed while you are in lala land. The fleets can't defend it indefinitely.

Or just chalk it up to bad writing/design..[jk]

That seems to be the case though (that the Crucible is being destroyed while you're in creep-land).  Supporting to keep it relevent to the discussion.

[Stealthy Cake]

@maseffect Do you think fans can become indoctrinated by Bioware

Mass Effect‏@
@reibback_flam Shhh.... Absolutely not! *shifty eyes*


trolololololol

[Tsantilas]

Ona Demonie wrote...

Full Comprised List of Evidence for New Comers:
***SNIP***

And not a single fact was given that day.  This whole thread is based on vague interpretations and conjecture at best.  Maybe it's just me, but I'm really not seeing it.  Harbinger shoots Shepard with a red ray of indoctrination?  The catalyst is Harbinger?  Everything he tells shepard is a lie to trick him?  There are 3 trees? What?  How does your pistol having infinite ammo prove anything?  It's obviously programmed that way so you don't run out of ammo from shooting that idiot kid out of frustration because of the terrible writing.  The only "bad ending" is if you dont pick an ending fast enough and the crucible explodes.  The rest is player choice.

[themidz]

Stealthy Cake wrote...


@masseffect The ending to ME3 is so sad though beautiful. But i'm left with so many questions that need answers.

Mass Effect‏@
@sebastianmetto Hang in there...

n1!

[Wuyunk]

Where do you guys get the "Indoctrination Theory" signature from?

[FrostByte-GER]

Fattness132 wrote...

I find this very fitting music for reading this thread hehe.

http://www.youtubere.../?v=qtF5nlQraog

Dude, I'm hearing this music since sunday. This fits perfectly to this thread too

Modifié par FrostByte-GER, 13 mars 2012 - 05:03 .

[FugitiveMind]

Auresta wrote...

Dilandau3000 wrote...

FugitiveMind wrote...

Ok, wife playing through the end currently, she's at the "go talk to Anderson, last farewells" section.

So you have Ash/Kaiden and the comm terminal for the non-crew on the bottom, and everyone else on the way up to Anderson. The following happened to me and I shrugged it off, but happened to the wife as well leading to the following question:

Where the heck is Vega?

Did we both just manage to miss him, or is he conspicuously absent?

He's right outside the exit of the building you start in, facing a bunch of other soldiers. He's admittedly pretty easy to miss.

I missed Vega. But that was probably because I was shaking the entire time.

So blind... got it

[Ainyan42]

https://twitter.com/...611387641856000

@masseffect The ending to ME3 is so sad though beautiful. But i'm left with so many questions that need answers.

@sebastianmetto Hang in there...

[RobT2012]

dedhd wrote...

 My own theory is that Bioware ran out of ideas. Simple as that. I think all you gus psychoanalysing the endings are seeing things that just aren't there. Face it, it's all just wishful thinking and speculation. The endings are bad, end of story.
At least that's what I thik right now. 

Hmm  i dont see that as even remotely being possible. In 3.5 days the fanbase has thrown out a shedload of ideas and possibilities. I even got hyperactive over the possibility that this is all a fake ending/indoctrination etc, so much so i sent the OP a full scenario of what i think happens step by step when the "true ending" block is removed, or released as DLC. Im just one person.

BioWare had 5 years to plan this in intricate detail, always knowing from day 1 it would be a trilogy for shep and a definite end would be made. So out of ideas....... not on your life

[savionen]

Tsantilas wrote...

Ona Demonie wrote...

Full Comprised List of Evidence for New Comers:
***SNIP***

And not a single fact was given that day.  This whole thread is based on vague interpretations and conjecture at best.  Maybe it's just me, but I'm really not seeing it.  Harbinger shoots Shepard with a red ray of indoctrination?  The catalyst is Harbinger?  Everything he tells shepard is a lie to trick him?  There are 3 trees? What?  How does your pistol having infinite ammo prove anything?  It's obviously programmed that way so you don't run out of ammo from shooting that idiot kid out of frustration because of the terrible writing.  The only "bad ending" is if you dont pick an ending fast enough and the crucible explodes.  The rest is player choice.

A lot of it is circumstancial and conjecture.

But, for example, why would they show Shepard in London at the end of the game, under rubble? (If you pick the Destroy option). It's very obviously London. They wouldn't just copy-paste the beginning of ME2 with Shepard re-entering the atmosphere, he'd burn up, and even by their sci-fi video game logic he'd still burn up.

[Milvushina]

jackncoke28 wrote...

jackncoke28 wrote...

k8ee wrote...

jackncoke28 wrote...

Just wanted to comment about the argument on why would reapers give you the option to destroy them. The indoctrination argument stipulates that shepard never actually got to the citadel, the choices are in your head. I would argue that the choices aren't really between controling, synthesizing, or destroying. They are basically
1. Giving in to reaper idiology while maintaining some of who you are (control)
2. Completely giving in to reaper ideology (synthesis)
3. Not giving in, and continuing to fight. (Destroy)
And by reaper idiology I mean there idea about the need for order in the universe (put forth by the "catalyst") and the inevitability of the organic's destruction by the harbingers of that synthetic order, the catalyst uses this argument to creat a sense of how useless it will be to keep fighting, and using the image of the boy has the added effect of reminding Shepard that he won't be able to save every one if he does continue to fight, an attempt to break his will. The first 2 choices, IMO, are shepard giving in to the arguments the reapers have made in ME1,2,and most of 3, via indoctrinated Saren, Sovereign, Harbinger, and indoctrinated TIM.

The reason for the indoctrination I believe, is to break the resistance of the allied forces. Shepard represents their hope, their belief that they can win this fight. We learned from javik that the prothean reaper war lasted his entire life, and the major disadvantage was that they were a homogeneous empire. So even with that disadvantage the held out for at least a couple decades. This cycle has multiple races fighting in tandem, and it has the catalyst weapon. This cycle has the best chance of defeating them and they know it. Martyring Shepard does not help their cause, they need him broken.
Wow, I didn't intend to go this far lol, I guess that's what great stories do to someone

Beautifully put.

Thank You

Also to add to argument against synthesis, wasnt synthesing and evolving into perfect being promised to the geth heratics by the reapers?

Would also like to add that it seems like the indoctrination dreams shepard is having throught ME3 seem to only serve the purpose of breaking him down and have him question himself and the mission of destroying the reapers. The child is a symbol of his failure to save everyone, notice also that when  mordin and others sacrifice themselves for the cause their voices end up in the nightmares. The catylist convo, in my mind, is testing your resolve to fight on, and is using the image of the child to weaken that resolve by showing you the symbol of what shep sees as his failure.

What Shep ultimately wants most is to save everybody.  It's the one thing that eats away at him the whole game.  Two endings offer him a chance to do that, even to save his synthetic friends, if he wants.  Too good to be true.  The reapers play on your innermost vulnerabilities, such as TIM's concern for humanity, Saren's desire to not see all organic life wiped out etc.  

[lil_89]

themidz wrote...

Stealthy Cake wrote...


@masseffect The ending to ME3 is so sad though beautiful. But i'm left with so many questions that need answers.

Mass Effect‏@
@sebastianmetto Hang in there...

n1!

Now, THIS gives me hope! 

[Golferguy758]

Golferguy758 wrote...

Reiterating why you can get a crucible has been destroyed ending and how it supports the hallucination/indoctrination theory. You are supposedly right next to the crucible at the end. If it was destroyed you would see it being destroyed as it is you dont because you aren't there. Point 2. The crucible is near the battle at the time of the charge. Taking too long to snap out of the hallucination/indoctrination means the crucible is destroyed while you are in lala land. The fleets can't defend it indefinitely.

[Rafe34]

Ainyan42 wrote...

https://twitter.com/...611387641856000

@masseffect The ending to ME3 is so sad though beautiful. But i'm left with so many questions that need answers.

@sebastianmetto Hang in there...

o_O!

That's... very, very interesting. Seems almost cruel to tell him that if that's he gets.

[kent80082006]

Auresta wrote...

No one addressed this person's question and I'd like to see insight, in relation to low EMS and high EMS affecting the star-brat's dialogue and choices offered:

"Yes, it does, but I've also heard that if you saved the collector base in ME2 that the only default option you get with a low EMS on the citadel is Control, whereas if you don't save the base your only low EMS option is Destroy. Has anyone personally seen this proved?"

You're right someone need to examine that.

I haven't seen it personally but from what I heard it seems that the destroy option is always available along side with the control option, whereas the destroy option could appear alone. So the player is never forced to choose the control option. 

But we need confirmation

Modifié par kent80082006, 13 mars 2012 - 05:05 .

[mmL]

Golferguy758 wrote...

Reiterating why you can get a crucible has been destroyed ending and how it supports the hallucination/indoctrination theory. You are supposedly right next to the crucible at the end. If it was destroyed you would see it being destroyed as it is you dont because you aren't there. Point 2. The crucible is near the battle at the time of the charge. Taking too long to snap out of the hallucination/indoctrination means the crucible is destroyed while you are in lala land. The fleets can't defend it indefinitely.

True that, but the problem is that apparently before the meeting with TIM (and you're unconcious in the rubble), you won't get the message that the crucible has been destroyed no matter how long you wait, ALTHOUGH it has already been deployed.

Can't confirm it though, Just repeating someone else's find.

[MDT1]

Darjeer wrote...

MDT1 wrote...

Darjeer wrote...

I agree with the DLC part, but don't so much with the "Crucible has been destroyed". Catalyst is the main force behind the whole reaper threat, so we might have to throw benelovent god -assumptions out of the window. Wouldn't this whole ending scenario be win-win-win-win for Catalyst? Synthesis would be permanent solution to his problem, control would leave all the reapers alive, destroy would pretty much be the reset they try to achieve and doing nothing would destroy Crucible and ensure that reapers can just continue with their plan.

But the catalyst says this proves that the cycle doesn't work any more, he agrees that action must be taken.
If he is what he claims to be he has no intention to lie here but to help Shepard and meanwhile preventing the reapers to destroy the crucible.
But if he is not what he claims to be, ME3 can't be finished yet.

I hear what you're saying. But if he's really what he claims to be, then why can The Crucible be destroyed? Shouldn't he be preventing this (if he truly controls the reapers) with ease?

Thats the point, it doesn't make sense.
If he's what he says, he wouldn't let it be destroyed.
If he's not, he wouldn't explain Shepard how to stop the reapers.
So the only way it would make sense is when he lies and Shepards actions don't stop the Reapers at all, but in this case ME3 istn't finished.
All under the hypothesis, that what you see, happens for real.

If it would be some kind of hallucination on th other hand it could be a device by Harbinger to get you into a hasty decision.

[Elendstourist]

Rafe34 wrote...

Ainyan42 wrote...

https://twitter.com/...611387641856000

@masseffect The ending to ME3 is so sad though beautiful. But i'm left with so many questions that need answers.

@sebastianmetto Hang in there...

o_O!

That's... very, very interesting. Seems almost cruel to tell him that if that's he gets.

That is one more piece in the puzzle. Come on guys, all these twitter posts at least seem to confirm, that the ending isnt final. What other option could it be otherwise?

[David Bergsma]

Stealthy Cake wrote...


@maseffect Do you think fans can become indoctrinated by Bioware

Mass Effect‏@
@reibback_flam Shhh.... Absolutely not! *shifty eyes*


trolololololol

I don't get it, so we're right about this theory?

[FrostByte-GER]

Ainyan42 wrote...

https://twitter.com/...611387641856000

@masseffect The ending to ME3 is so sad though beautiful. But i'm left with so many questions that need answers.

@sebastianmetto Hang in there...

hmm....hmmmmmm...HMMMMMMM....we need answers, NOW

[Darjeer]

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

Golferguy758 wrote...

Reiterating why you can get a crucible has been destroyed ending and how it supports the hallucination/indoctrination theory. You are supposedly right next to the crucible at the end. If it was destroyed you would see it being destroyed as it is you dont because you aren't there. Point 2. The crucible is near the battle at the time of the charge. Taking too long to snap out of the hallucination/indoctrination means the crucible is destroyed while you are in lala land. The fleets can't defend it indefinitely.

Or just chalk it up to bad writing/design..[jk]

That seems to be the case though (that the Crucible is being destroyed while you're in creep-land).  Supporting to keep it relevent to the discussion.

I see it the other way around. Whole no-time-limit-before-crucible-docks is in my mind evidence that everything is really happening. Also the lack of explosion can pretty much be blamed on Bioware not wanting to make separate scene for it.

[Shared]

Been following this thread, an @masseffect twitter since i finished. I was already convinced this wasnt the ending when i finished the game the first time, get everything perfect and the ending shows me back in london??? wth...

Anyway, have you guys seen the tweets lately, theyre starting to get iffy. The last two i have noticed is one guy saying the ending was ok, but so many questions unansered, which they replied:"Hang in there". And one guy asking if the players could get indoctrinated, which the reply was:"Shhh.... Absolutely not! *shifty eyes*". Now usually before today they just answer thanks for feedback. But suddenly that routine has shifted... Food for thaught maybe!

[ArkkAngel007]

Tsantilas wrote...

Ona Demonie wrote...

Full Comprised List of Evidence for New Comers:
***SNIP***

And not a single fact was given that day.  This whole thread is based on vague interpretations and conjecture at best.  Maybe it's just me, but I'm really not seeing it.  Harbinger shoots Shepard with a red ray of indoctrination?  The catalyst is Harbinger?  Everything he tells shepard is a lie to trick him?  There are 3 trees? What?  How does your pistol having infinite ammo prove anything?  It's obviously programmed that way so you don't run out of ammo from shooting that idiot kid out of frustration because of the terrible writing.  The only "bad ending" is if you dont pick an ending fast enough and the crucible explodes.  The rest is player choice.

That is nowhere near what anyone has been discussing here.  You don't agree with the theory, fine.  But saying things like "Harbringer shoots Shepard with a red ray of indoctrination" is just making your opinion nothing more but filler in this topic.  Maybe you were just trying to be clever with your post to demonstrate your disdain on the theory, but sorry it only just put you out there as being ignorant on the discussion.

[Jedib2]

There is something I noticed in the Destroy ending....

Shepard survives. So, if the Citadel/Crucible really exploded, wouldn't he have burn up in reentry, Suffocated to death with no helmet, died on impact or just been incinerated in the explosion?