57139 réponses à ce sujet

[Wuyunk]

Hellooooooo can someone tell me how to put the "Indoctrination Theory" into my sig please? Thanks!

EDIT: Whoops, nevermind! Thanks Ascend

Modifié par Wuyunk, 13 mars 2012 - 05:23 .

[Lambchopz]

Smiley556 wrote...

MDT1 wrote...

Lambchopz wrote...

Smiley556 wrote...

http://social.biowar...ex/9872108&lf=8
check the link he refers to

Yeah I saw that. Bit of a dick move.

Well, but if I understand it right, the threat he linked to expects also a real ending dlc.

For people who dont feel like reading the whole thing. Someone asked an explenation on the ending. Mod closed his thread and refered him to a thread which explains the indoctrination theory in full and hints at real ending DLC.

Wow. I actually didn't read it, feel bad now, lol.

I'm still skeptical. Easily may just be another BioWare damage control tactic.

[Ryno911]

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Hi,

 I
have created a Facebook page opposing the views of another page "Demand a
better ending to Mass Effect 3."  While I respect their rights to not
like the ending, I do not like the fact that they are demanding Bioware change
their original scripts.  Although the "Demand a better ending to
Mass Effect 3" page has conducted itself very well by trying to keep
the rude comments and "bashing" of the people at Bioware to a
minimum, other sites around the web are not.  If you follow anyone at
Bioware, on Twitter or Facebook, you can tell some of them are extremely
stressed out by all the fans' outrage at the ending to the game.  No one
deserves to get hate mail for something like this.  In my eyes Mass Effect
3 is still a great game either way.  I admit I would be extremely
disappointed if it turned out this ending was full of story holes and
oversights, but I still enjoyed the series as a whole, and would like to show
some appreciation.



 The
page was created to support the people at Bioware, who created Mass
Effect, no matter what happens with the ending of ME3, indoctrination theory or
not.  I'm tired of all the hate they are receiving and I want to show them
that not all their fans are ready to jump ship. We still want to recognize
their amazing contributions to the video game industry. 



 

If you would like to show your support to the
people at Bioware please like the page.  Any constructive comments are
welcome, and pass the word along to anyone that may feel the same. 





 Also, I want the page to
be about supporting the Dream/Indoctrination Theory. If you have any ideas, for
or against the theory, please comment on the page.  



 




http://www.facebook.com/MassEffect3Ending

Thank you for taking the time to read this post.

Modifié par Ryno911, 13 mars 2012 - 05:23 .

[AntariuzX]

The options are:
A) Shepard never left London.
 More space magic.

C) What if he never was on citadel? What if beam transported him somewhere else?

[jackncoke28]

Another thing to point out is that if TIM was already there, why bother arguing with shepard? why not just kill shepard and anderson, and then just go up to the catalyst and make the choice himself? he had the opportunity, what was with this obsessive need to convince shepard? To me it strengthens the attempt to indoctrinate shepard argument

[Lambchopz]

AntariuzX wrote...

The options are:
A) Shepard never left London.
 More space magic.

C) What if he never was on citadel? What if beam transported him somewhere else?

That would still fall under the realm of space magic. But yes, I suppose if you accept space magic as the explanation, that can work.

[Capeo]

Neuthung wrote...

Tsantilas wrote...

RobT2012 wrote...

Just a thought...... even if the citadel has some sort of spooky science magic, that would allow a person to freefal from space and survive..... what the hell are the chances of you falling all the way from that distance back to london streets? 

How do we know he lands in london?  All we see in the cinematic is rubble and a bit of burnt armor.  It could be anywhere.

It has to be because it's the only thing that makes sense. The Citadel was high in the atmosphere of Earth, if Shep was really there, there's no way he re-enters earth with half of his pressurized suit destroyed and no helmet. The ONLY viable explanations are the indoctrination theory or studio oversight by Bioware.

It's just an Easter Egg tossed in for people who get their EMS very high.  It makes no more or less sense than anything else in the debacle that is these endings.

[AscendBaldur]

Wuyunk wrote...

Hellooooooo can someone tell me how to put the "Indoctrination Theory" into my sig please? Thanks!

I pmed you awhile back dude All you gotta do is put the tag {img}

then your link for the photo and then the tag {/img} in your sig but replace the { with [ and the } with ]

Modifié par AscendBaldur, 13 mars 2012 - 05:24 .

[Tallis Lucienis]

I just woke up...I missed so much...WHY

[Black Raptor]

The ending can't be a hallucination

Certain choices you make along the way make certain "choices" at the end impossible.

Some scenarios exist where the only option available to Shepard is Destroy. Why would the indoctrination only give one option in that case?

[Darjeer]

MDT1 wrote...

Darjeer wrote...

MDT1 wrote...

Darjeer wrote...

I agree with the DLC part, but don't so much with the "Crucible has been destroyed". Catalyst is the main force behind the whole reaper threat, so we might have to throw benelovent god -assumptions out of the window. Wouldn't this whole ending scenario be win-win-win-win for Catalyst? Synthesis would be permanent solution to his problem, control would leave all the reapers alive, destroy would pretty much be the reset they try to achieve and doing nothing would destroy Crucible and ensure that reapers can just continue with their plan.

But the catalyst says this proves that the cycle doesn't work any more, he agrees that action must be taken.
If he is what he claims to be he has no intention to lie here but to help Shepard and meanwhile preventing the reapers to destroy the crucible.
But if he is not what he claims to be, ME3 can't be finished yet.

I hear what you're saying. But if he's really what he claims to be, then why can The Crucible be destroyed? Shouldn't he be preventing this (if he truly controls the reapers) with ease?

Thats the point, it doesn't make sense.
If he's what he says, he wouldn't let it be destroyed.
If he's not, he wouldn't explain Shepard how to stop the reapers.
So the only way it would make sense is when he lies and Shepards actions don't stop the Reapers at all, but in this case ME3 istn't finished.
All under the hypothesis, that what you see, happens for real.

If it would be some kind of hallucination on th other hand it could be a device by Harbinger to get you into a hasty decision.

If he's what he says, he wouldn't let it be destroyed.
I think he would. Why wouldn't he allow them to destroy The Crucible? He's inside Citadel, not Crucible. I'm pretty sure that reapers would be able to destroy The Crucible without blowing Citadel up.

If he's not, he wouldn't explain Shepard how to stop the reapers. 
He might. Synthesis would prevent further cycles, control let's them escape unharmed (who knows what Shepard does with them) and destroy would destroy all synthetic life from galaxy, thus offering just another solution (instead of preventing organics from creating synthetics, kill the robots). Also with Mass Relays destroyed, those sparse resources that everyone stranded in Sol system could muster up will probably be used in something else than creating another geth.

So the only way it would make sense is when he lies and Shepards actions don't stop the Reapers at all, but in this case ME3 istn't finished. 

This I agree with.

[Descedent]

Capeo wrote...

Neuthung wrote...

Tsantilas wrote...

RobT2012 wrote...

Just a thought...... even if the citadel has some sort of spooky science magic, that would allow a person to freefal from space and survive..... what the hell are the chances of you falling all the way from that distance back to london streets? 

How do we know he lands in london?  All we see in the cinematic is rubble and a bit of burnt armor.  It could be anywhere.

It has to be because it's the only thing that makes sense. The Citadel was high in the atmosphere of Earth, if Shep was really there, there's no way he re-enters earth with half of his pressurized suit destroyed and no helmet. The ONLY viable explanations are the indoctrination theory or studio oversight by Bioware.

It's just an Easter Egg tossed in for people who get their EMS very high.  It makes no more or less sense than anything else in the debacle that is these endings.

agreed, considering control can be the only ending you can get if you don't do enough.

[Ainyan42]

Lambchopz wrote...

Smiley556 wrote...

http://social.biowar...ex/9872108&lf=8
check the link he refers to

Yeah I saw that. Bit of a dick move.

Did you read that thread? I'd like to point out that it pretty much supports our theory - that the ending is actually a battle of wills between Shepard and the Reapers regarding indoctrination. Now, I don't necessarily agree that this was the 'final battle' - though in the CE art book it specifically says that TIM was supposed to be a big boss creature, and they opted out of that because they wanted players to 'fight the familiar', and then goes on to point out that TIM's strength is intelligence, suggesting that the final battle is a test of intellect, not brute strength. But the rest of the thread is fairly spot on with what /we/ have been saying.

Just pointing that out.

[JediNg]

Tallis Lucienis wrote...

I just woke up...I missed so much...WHY

Because while you were passed out for hours, you were fighting indoctrination while the thread went on

[FugitiveMind]

Ok, hear my wife dodging reaper beams...

Time to go put myself through hell again and see if I can pick anything new up, or if I just lose it again

[mscotch]

Descedent wrote...

unless it's space magic, he didn't fall from space and land on his back on earth without burning up entering the earths atmosphere, you would splatter into a million pieces, given your body even made it past the atmosphere.

Anderson says before you even start the earth mission, that the beam is used to transport organics from earth to the citadel. Shepard could have just used the beam to transport back to earth. 

Modifié par mscotch, 13 mars 2012 - 05:28 .

[Ryno911]

 Hi,

 I
have created a Facebook page opposing the views of another page "Demand a
better ending to Mass Effect 3."  While I respect their rights to not
like the ending, I do not like the fact that they are demanding Bioware change
their original scripts.  Although the "Demand a better ending to
Mass Effect 3" page has conducted itself very well by trying to keep
the rude comments and "bashing" of the people at Bioware to a
minimum, other sites around the web are not.  If you follow anyone at
Bioware, on Twitter or Facebook, you can tell some of them are extremely
stressed out by all the fans' outrage at the ending to the game.  No one
deserves to get hate mail for something like this.  In my eyes Mass Effect
3 is still a great game either way.  I admit I would be extremely
disappointed if it turned out this ending was full of story holes and
oversights, but I still enjoyed the series as a whole, and would like to show
some appreciation.



 The
page was created to support the people at Bioware, who created Mass
Effect, no matter what happens with the ending of ME3, indoctrination theory or
not.  I'm tired of all the hate they are receiving and I want to show them
that not all their fans are ready to jump ship. We still want to recognize
their amazing contributions to the video game industry. 



 

If you would like to show your support to the
people at Bioware please like the page.  Any constructive comments are
welcome, and pass the word along to anyone that may feel the same. 





 Also, I want the page to
be about supporting the Dream/Indoctrination Theory. If you have any ideas, for
or against the theory, please comment on the page.  



 


http://www.facebook.com/MassEffect3Ending

[Lambchopz]

Ainyan42 wrote...

Lambchopz wrote...

Smiley556 wrote...

http://social.biowar...ex/9872108&lf=8
check the link he refers to

Yeah I saw that. Bit of a dick move.

Did you read that thread? I'd like to point out that it pretty much supports our theory - that the ending is actually a battle of wills between Shepard and the Reapers regarding indoctrination. Now, I don't necessarily agree that this was the 'final battle' - though in the CE art book it specifically says that TIM was supposed to be a big boss creature, and they opted out of that because they wanted players to 'fight the familiar', and then goes on to point out that TIM's strength is intelligence, suggesting that the final battle is a test of intellect, not brute strength. But the rest of the thread is fairly spot on with what /we/ have been saying.

Just pointing that out.

I know, somebody else clarified that a page ago.

Honest mistake, so much info flowing through this forum sometimes you don't read it all.

[Descedent]

I would like to point out that I just beat the game last night, and I kept waking up and dreaming over and over and over about the ending and the what ifs.

At rate these ending threads are going, I say bioware succeeded with this ending.

[BadlyBrowned]

Kioux wrote...

J4N3_M3 wrote...

as far as we know, no one has ever resisted direct indoctrination yet so no one really knows what this could cause to the Reapers. We also don't have any idea how the Crucible is supposed to work. What if the Catalyst isn't the child but actually Shepard resisting the indoctrination, hereby activating the Crucible to destroy the Reapers by releasing some form of virus or something among the Reapers?

just thinking out loud xD

Actually, when I went to sleep this morning ( thanks by the way, this thread kept me up way too long) I couldn't drift off, because my mind was wrapping around that.
What if Shepard was part of the catalyst... or the one thing activating it? After all, the Citadel was also a means to signal and communicate among the Reapers, yes? 
Ah well, it's becoming a path of seeing signs and clawing my way away from the endings.

This has been brought up before. Something along the lines that the RGC is not the Catalyst. The Catalyst is, actually, Shepard him/herself. Catalyst is defined as " 1. A substance that increases the rate of chemical reaction
 2. A person or thing that precipitates an event" Does the RGC really precipitate the endings? If anything, he seems more like a Gatekeeper. So, say the Indoctrination Theory is false, does it really make sense that RGC is the Catalyst when in practice it appears that Shepard is the one catalyzing the activation of the Crucible? RGC himself even says that he knows what Shepard came here for but that the RGC himself cannot and emphasizes that he *will not* do anything about it. It is left all up to Shepard. So, is the RGC just spewing comeplete BS when he says he's the Catalyst. I mean, he already appears to be spewing BS anyways....

So, to continue to grasp at emmmmergency indunction tubes, since Shepard is the real Catalyst, what better way to defeat Shepard than to make Shepard (re: us, the players) believe that he got onto the Citadel and activated the Crucible? Thus, we have the scene with TIM & Andersen which essentially serves as the Angel vs Devil on your shoulder moment for Shepard. We are then transported to the scene where we are meant to believe we are given 3 choices to defeat the Reapers, when really this is just the final test of wills of Shepard vs the Reapers. To say again, the Control, Synthesis, and Destroy endings in actuality have nothing to do with the Crucible at all.

Thus, as has been hypothesized in this thread, Control = TIM's solution to the Reapers, Synthesis = Saren's solution to the Reapers, which leaves Destroy = Shepards solution to the Reapers, which has been Shepards solution to the Reapers since Mass Effect 1. I continue to feel it is very significant that the Shepard "wakes up" scene only appears with high EMS + Destroy endings, and this happens whether or not you destroyed the collector base in ME2.

What does this mean ultimately? Really all this ammounts to is that the game is incomplete. This would be like the movie "Brazil" ending without that very last scene in the end with Lowry in the catatonic state, realing the truth of the ending to the audience. It simply leaves the audience extremely confused about what the hell just happened. Heck, even with it most people were confused as hell about "Brazil" anyways. 

Now, the easy solution is to say, well, Bioware just screwed up and got lazy there. However, considering the quality of the rest of the game, and even the rest of the series, it just seems so enourmously out of place to have the game end the way it did. 

Modifié par BadlyBrowned, 13 mars 2012 - 05:29 .

[AnthonyUK]

Capeo wrote...

There is no hallucination. The Synergy ending opens last. It's easier to get control and destroy. The leaked script goes so far to say that the Synergy ending is the "perfect ending" that you're working towards. Not to mention the epilogue fires no matter what and it clearly shows that the Reapers have been defeated and the relays are gone. None of that would make sense if were an indoctrinated hallucination.

then how does shepard live on earth at the end of the Destroy "perfect ending?

[xGhost4000x]

Indeed...I just woke up.....there are soooo many new pages.

[Shared]

Black Raptor wrote...

The ending can't be a hallucination

Certain choices you make along the way make certain "choices" at the end impossible.

Some scenarios exist where the only option available to Shepard is Destroy. Why would the indoctrination only give one option in that case?

The reapers already have won if you dont have high enough EMS (the only way to get only destroy is if earth goes boom). In that case why would the reapers (harbinger) bother with indoctrinating Shepard? They start it but its already a win, so they just go "screw it" and he is dead.

[mariosgh]

Black Raptor wrote...

The ending can't be a hallucination

Certain choices you make along the way make certain "choices" at the end impossible.

Some scenarios exist where the only option available to Shepard is Destroy. Why would the indoctrination only give one option in that case?

Yeah, that's a good question.

[Capeo]

Descedent wrote...

Capeo wrote...

Neuthung wrote...

Tsantilas wrote...

RobT2012 wrote...

Just a thought...... even if the citadel has some sort of spooky science magic, that would allow a person to freefal from space and survive..... what the hell are the chances of you falling all the way from that distance back to london streets? 

How do we know he lands in london?  All we see in the cinematic is rubble and a bit of burnt armor.  It could be anywhere.

It has to be because it's the only thing that makes sense. The Citadel was high in the atmosphere of Earth, if Shep was really there, there's no way he re-enters earth with half of his pressurized suit destroyed and no helmet. The ONLY viable explanations are the indoctrination theory or studio oversight by Bioware.

It's just an Easter Egg tossed in for people who get their EMS very high.  It makes no more or less sense than anything else in the debacle that is these endings.

agreed, considering control can be the only ending you can get if you don't do enough.

Exactly.  And Synergy is the last to unlock and it also outright called the "perfect ending" you are working for in the leaked script.  The script also has the conversations with TIM and the Guardian and mentions nothing about hallucinations or indoctrination except in regards to TIM.