57139 réponses à ce sujet

[AntariuzX]

mscotch wrote...
Anderson says before you even start the earth mission, that the beam is used to transport organics from earth to the citadel. Shepard could have just used the beam to transport back to earth. 

Hmm. Considering that Joker had plenty of time to flee the battle. Shepard may actually had enough time to beam back.

[Rafe34]

Okay. We need to figure this out, this is the only big thing I can see standing in the way of the Indoctrination Theory.

Why does the God-Kid only give Shep the option to destroy the Reapers if your EMS is low? There should always be at least two options.

This is the biggest thing I can see against the Indoctrination Theory.

[Dessalines]

Capeo wrote...

There is no hallucination. The Synergy ending opens last. It's easier to get control and destroy. The leaked script goes so far to say that the Synergy ending is the "perfect ending" that you're working towards. Not to mention the epilogue fires no matter what and it clearly shows that the Reapers have been defeated and the relays are gone. None of that would make sense if were an indoctrinated hallucination.

Actually, the shepard lives in the hardest to get.

[Tsantilas]

Neuthung wrote...

It has to be because it's the only thing that makes sense. The Citadel was high in the atmosphere of Earth, if Shep was really there, there's no way he re-enters earth with half of his pressurized suit destroyed and no helmet. The ONLY viable explanations are the indoctrination theory or studio oversight by Bioware.

I'm more likely to believe studio oversight than some vague cryptic indoctrination scenario built on conjecture.  If Shepard was inside the citadel at the time of it's re-entry he could possibly be protected by it's mass effect field or some other excuse.  In an interractive audio visual medium like video games I'm more inclined to believe what I see, hear, and experience rather than some random scenario that isn't based on any solid evidence provided by the game.  I mean, Kai Leng's plot armor protected him from multiple gunshot wounds to the face from a widow in my play through, so I could see shepard surviving anything at this point.  The Normandy crew survived crashing on a planet with engines destroyed and multiple hull breaches, so whatever.

[Biijou]

we want a better ending bioware / ea
http://www.petitiono...ss-effect-3/864

hold the line!

[Radioflyer3]

IDK if this helps support the indoctrination theory, or if it was just for me that it happened, because nobody else seems to have noticed or mentioned it yet so here it is.

As Shep. is waking up, immediately after being hit by the laser, and when you first hear the radio chatter on everyone being cooked on the way to the beam there are a couple of blue lines in the top left of his vision. They are the same color blue as seen on the husks and other reapers. you can only see them for a brief time (while seeing things from Shepard's view)

Let me know what you think

[gjblank]

I can't believe the number of people who refuse to believe this theory. A good portion of the game points to it from very early on. Apparently indoctrination is more effective on the player than I would have ever believed.

[Lambchopz]

I think it's a really bad idea to create a seperate group with the intent of opposing the movement already in place, by the way.

Forces a clear divide among the community that doesn't really need to be there. For the time being, this theory and the simple "hold the line till we get it completely redone" can easily co-exist.

Don't force the issue.

[AntariuzX]

Biijou wrote...

we want a better ending bioware / ea
http://www.petitiono...ss-effect-3/864

hold the line!

I don't want a different ending, I want this one to make sense.

[Capeo]

AnthonyUK wrote...

Capeo wrote...

There is no hallucination. The Synergy ending opens last. It's easier to get control and destroy. The leaked script goes so far to say that the Synergy ending is the "perfect ending" that you're working towards. Not to mention the epilogue fires no matter what and it clearly shows that the Reapers have been defeated and the relays are gone. None of that would make sense if were an indoctrinated hallucination.

then how does shepard live on earth at the end of the Destroy "perfect ending?

Who knows?  That he lives in that ending is in the script.  Nothing about hallucinations or indoctrination is though.  The simple fact is BW got lazy and didn't want to do cinematics to show how he lived.  Hell, they reused the same assets for every ending as is.    

[SadCommander]

AnthonyUK wrote...

Capeo wrote...

There is no hallucination. The Synergy ending opens last. It's easier to get control and destroy. The leaked script goes so far to say that the Synergy ending is the "perfect ending" that you're working towards. Not to mention the epilogue fires no matter what and it clearly shows that the Reapers have been defeated and the relays are gone. None of that would make sense if were an indoctrinated hallucination.

then how does shepard live on earth at the end of the Destroy "perfect ending?

The destroy ending with shepard surviving opens last.

[BadlyBrowned]

Rafe34 wrote...

Okay. We need to figure this out, this is the only big thing I can see standing in the way of the Indoctrination Theory.

Why does the God-Kid only give Shep the option to destroy the Reapers if your EMS is low? There should always be at least two options.

This is the biggest thing I can see against the Indoctrination Theory.

With a low EMS, it does not matter if Shpeard defeats indoctrination. Shepard could still probably open up the Citadel for the Cruccble to dock, but the Allied Fleet would be too weak to defend it from the Reaper attacks.

Modifié par BadlyBrowned, 13 mars 2012 - 05:32 .

[FrostByte-GER]

Black Raptor wrote...

The ending can't be a hallucination

Certain choices you make along the way make certain "choices" at the end impossible.

Some scenarios exist where the only option available to Shepard is Destroy. Why would the indoctrination only give one option in that case?

Because this "destroy" ending is a bad win 4 the mankind! Everything on earth got killed. Its a win 4 the reapers...because Shepard should think that he has won

[Falar]

I wonder if the leaked script was intentional, as another way to get people to pick synthesis.

As for why the destroy option (or control) might be your only choice -- you're starting to get indoctrinated, because the Reapers do want control of you, but because your EMS is not high enough to have time to fight the indoctrination, they win. Earth goes boom (destroy) or you're indoctrinated (control) and you lose.

[RobT2012]

Tsantilas wrote...

RobT2012 wrote...

Just a thought...... even if the citadel has some sort of spooky science magic, that would allow a person to freefal from space and survive..... what the hell are the chances of you falling all the way from that distance back to london streets? 

How do we know he lands in london?  All we see in the cinematic is rubble and a bit of burnt armor.  It could be anywhere.

Well it has to be a city of some description... if it was country side no concrete rubble would be present. Most of the earth is water. Of the land left, city space occupies very little. Everyone is convinced he is breathing in london as thats where we knocked out. just saying the whole argument we never left london city is the only thing that make sense to explain that last cutscene.

[squee365]

Black Raptor wrote...

The ending can't be a hallucination

Certain choices you make along the way make certain "choices" at the end impossible.

Some scenarios exist where the only option available to Shepard is Destroy. Why would the indoctrination only give one option in that case?

We've explained this before...

Lower EMS = less time, less effect of indoctrination, less leeway to convince shepard other options.

Higher EMS = more time, more effect of indoctrination, shepard easily convinced by other options.

[Evil_medved]

Capeo wrote...

Descedent wrote...

Capeo wrote...

Neuthung wrote...

Tsantilas wrote...

RobT2012 wrote...

Just a thought...... even if the citadel has some sort of spooky science magic, that would allow a person to freefal from space and survive..... what the hell are the chances of you falling all the way from that distance back to london streets? 

How do we know he lands in london?  All we see in the cinematic is rubble and a bit of burnt armor.  It could be anywhere.

It has to be because it's the only thing that makes sense. The Citadel was high in the atmosphere of Earth, if Shep was really there, there's no way he re-enters earth with half of his pressurized suit destroyed and no helmet. The ONLY viable explanations are the indoctrination theory or studio oversight by Bioware.

It's just an Easter Egg tossed in for people who get their EMS very high.  It makes no more or less sense than anything else in the debacle that is these endings.

agreed, considering control can be the only ending you can get if you don't do enough.

Exactly.  And Synergy is the last to unlock and it also outright called the "perfect ending" you are working for in the leaked script.  The script also has the conversations with TIM and the Guardian and mentions nothing about hallucinations or indoctrination except in regards to TIM.

Nope, synergy is easy to get.

[jackncoke28]

BadlyBrowned wrote...

Rafe34 wrote...

Okay. We need to figure this out, this is the only big thing I can see standing in the way of the Indoctrination Theory.

Why does the God-Kid only give Shep the option to destroy the Reapers if your EMS is low? There should always be at least two options.

This is the biggest thing I can see against the Indoctrination Theory.

With a low EMS, it does not matter if Shpeard defeats indoctrination. Shepard could still probably open up the Citadel for the Crucibal to dock, but the Allied Fleet would be too weak to defend it from the Reaper attacks.

Low EMS means you dont have enough troops to buy you the time you need to defeat indoctrination and stay alive while you are knocked unconcious, best guess

[savionen]

Synthesis is definitely not the "best ending".

Saren tried to do Synthesis and look where that went. It also completely denies the entire galaxy of free will AND you don't know what actually happens to the Reapers.

Also as stated you need something like 3k in order to be able to choose that option. You need 4k or 5k to live as Destroy. If showing Shepard back in London was some little stupid "Maybe he's not dead??" thing for no reason, then why not have it in all 3 endings?

Modifié par savionen, 13 mars 2012 - 05:34 .

[Sajuro]

Rafe34 wrote...

Okay. We need to figure this out, this is the only big thing I can see standing in the way of the Indoctrination Theory.

Why does the God-Kid only give Shep the option to destroy the Reapers if your EMS is low? There should always be at least two options.

This is the biggest thing I can see against the Indoctrination Theory.

He knows that the organics aren't actually a threat with such a low EMS, the destroy ending doesn't actually destroy the Reapers but only breaks from the indoctrination. With low EMS, by the time Shep wakes up, the Reapers have already won.

[Capeo]

Dessalines wrote...

Capeo wrote...

There is no hallucination. The Synergy ending opens last. It's easier to get control and destroy. The leaked script goes so far to say that the Synergy ending is the "perfect ending" that you're working towards. Not to mention the epilogue fires no matter what and it clearly shows that the Reapers have been defeated and the relays are gone. None of that would make sense if were an indoctrinated hallucination.

Actually, the shepard lives in the hardest to get.

So?  That doesn't mean it's the "perfect ending".  That ending is in the script, yet the script is clear that the "perfect ending", in those exact words, is the Synergy Ending.  Why do you think they went through so much trouble to humanize synthetics?  The "perfect ending" in BW's view is the one where organics and synthetics are forever joined removing the worry about a singularity ever again.

[Noob451]

gjblank wrote...

I can't believe the number of people who refuse to believe this theory. A good portion of the game points to it from very early on. Apparently indoctrination is more effective on the player than I would have ever believed.

Maybe that's Bioware's point?

[MDT1]

[quote]Darjeer wrote...


If he's what he says, he wouldn't let it be destroyed.
I think he would. Why wouldn't he allow them to destroy The Crucible? He's inside Citadel, not Crucible. I'm pretty sure that reapers would be able to destroy The Crucible without blowing Citadel up.[/quote]

But he needs the Crucible because it added new possibilities, destroying it would remove them again.
Again, he agrees that something was be done, if this would be a lie, we are at point 3 which you already agreed upon
[quote]Darjeer wrote...
If he's not, he wouldn't explain Shepard how to stop the reapers. 
He might. Synthesis would prevent further cycles, control let's them escape unharmed (who knows what Shepard does with them) and destroy would destroy all synthetic life from galaxy, thus offering just another solution (instead of preventing organics from creating synthetics, kill the robots). Also with Mass Relays destroyed, those sparse resources that everyone stranded in Sol system could muster up will probably be used in something else than creating another geth.[/quote]
If he's not what he says, why would he tell Shepard how to stop the Reapers?
More elaborated: He gains nothing by claiming to be the reapers creator, only suspicion. So if he where something different and wants the reapers stopped, he would tell it. If not, see again Point 3.
[quote]Darjeer wrote...
So the only way it would make sense is when he lies and Shepards actions don't stop the Reapers at all, but in this case ME3 istn't finished. 

This I agree with.[/quote]

[/quote]

[Fledgey]

https://twitter.com/...620565160706048
I... erm... well...