57139 réponses à ce sujet

[Gruumi]

holyshock18 wrote...

Smiley556 wrote...

http://social.biowar...ex/9872108&lf=8
check the link he refers to

Isent that kinda what we are thinking here. And dosent a Bioware employer Speficaly point him to that theory?? So what does that mean. Does that mean we really nailed it or?

Hmm

Sounds like confirmation right there.

[mmL]

jackncoke28 wrote...

Dessalines wrote...

Why is "changed " in quotations? Lol, does that mean it was always a crappy ending?

Could be leaving the door open. By putting change in quotations seems to be saying, ending is different, but not cus we 'changed' anything, moreso cus there is more to it. wishful thinking on my part

Perhaps because it was never meant to be the real ending. Perhaps it was meant to make us think that was the real ending. Perhaps they wanted to indoctrinate us. 

So nothing has "changed".

[Falar]

mmL wrote...

Capeo wrote...

Dessalines wrote...

Capeo wrote...

There is no hallucination. The Synergy ending opens last. It's easier to get control and destroy. The leaked script goes so far to say that the Synergy ending is the "perfect ending" that you're working towards. Not to mention the epilogue fires no matter what and it clearly shows that the Reapers have been defeated and the relays are gone. None of that would make sense if were an indoctrinated hallucination.

Actually, the shepard lives in the hardest to get.

So?  That doesn't mean it's the "perfect ending".  That ending is in the script, yet the script is clear that the "perfect ending", in those exact words, is the Synergy Ending.  Why do you think they went through so much trouble to humanize synthetics?  The "perfect ending" in BW's view is the one where organics and synthetics are forever joined removing the worry about a singularity ever again.

Perhaps the script was leaked intentionally to INDOCTRINATE everyone that Synthesis was the good ending. Just think about it...

Yep, I'm starting to think that.

[RobT2012]

Descedent wrote...

I would like to point out that I just beat the game last night, and I kept waking up and dreaming over and over and over about the ending and the what ifs.

At rate these ending threads are going, I say bioware succeeded with this ending.

Haha, I have been the same completed it on Sunday and have not been able to switch off from this. Keep waking up with a new theory /scenario, and then letting my mind explore what the real ending might be like!

[PrivateFrost]

Elendstourist wrote...

Fledgey wrote...

https://twitter.com/...620565160706048
I... erm... well...

Is that good or bad for the indoctrination theory?

No change to the theory. Just that the crappy ending was their idea all along. 

[JFedora]

BadlyBrowned wrote...

Now, the easy solution is to say, well, Bioware just screwed up and got lazy there. However, considering the quality of the rest of the game, and even the rest of the series, it just seems so enourmously out of place to have the game end the way it did. 

Exactly. I had a fairly long conversation with a friend of mine about our thoughts on the ending, before either of us had even heard of this thread, and we noted that "The whole ending just feels like it was tacked on by an entirely different team; it doesn't fit with the rest of the game or the series as a whole". (Then, of course, we found this thread and were overjoyed to find out we weren't the only ones thinking that.) All of these little clues in the game are, put together, a fairly convincing argument - but for me, at least, this is the most convincing one. Bioware isn't perfect; they have certainly made mistakes before, but for right now, at least, the choice is between believing that the developers finished the game with a plot-hole-ridden terrible ending, or that they HAVEN'T finished the game, and they're doing something unprecidentedly creative. I would much rather believe this conspiracy theory and hope that Bioware has something incredible planned then believe that they managed to produce an absolutely exceptional 30-hour game right up until the last 10 minutes.

[k8ee]

This isn't the one I originally saw, but it shows you the worst outcome. You can also clearly see a dead Garrus in this version. (sadness)

[jackncoke28]

jackncoke28 wrote...

Another thing to point out is that if TIM was already there, why bother arguing with shepard? why not just kill shepard and anderson, and then just go up to the catalyst and make the choice himself? he had the opportunity, what was with this obsessive need to convince shepard? To me it strengthens the attempt to indoctrinate shepard argument

This one still bugs me. any thoughts? sorry if its already been discussed, but seems like alot of different discussions are getting burried with the insane pace this thing is going in, wanted make sure this point was made.

[RobT2012]

mariosgh wrote...

Black Raptor wrote...

The ending can't be a hallucination

Certain choices you make along the way make certain "choices" at the end impossible.

Some scenarios exist where the only option available to Shepard is Destroy. Why would the indoctrination only give one option in that case?

Yeah, that's a good question.

What choices/ play through leaves destroy as the only option?

[holyshock18]

Aesthyr wrote...

holyshock18 wrote...

Smiley556 wrote...

http://social.biowar...ex/9872108&lf=8
check the link he refers to

Isent that kinda what we are thinking here. And dosent a Bioware employer Speficaly point him to that theory?? So what does that mean. Does that mean we really nailed it or?

Hmm

Sounds like confirmation right there.

Ye in my head it seriously sounds like confirmation

[Lambchopz]

Aesthyr wrote...

holyshock18 wrote...

Smiley556 wrote...

http://social.biowar...ex/9872108&lf=8
check the link he refers to

Isent that kinda what we are thinking here. And dosent a Bioware employer Speficaly point him to that theory?? So what does that mean. Does that mean we really nailed it or?

Hmm

Sounds like confirmation right there.

This is the only thing I've seen come directly from BioWare so far that is actually starting to wear off my skepticism and start to wonder if they do intend to expand in this way.

Still being cautious though, it may still be a simple BioWare damage control/deflection tactic.

[Xorzag]

Haha, I got indoctrinated!

No, seriously, this somehow really makes sense. Of course there's the high chance of us just being to fanatic to realise that the final ending of this awesome series is ****, but you know:"Against all odds!" I guess we'll find out, anyways...

I'm sorry for not havin read all the 330 pages, so I don't know if anybody mentioned it yet, but I think I found another clue for your theorie. I was playing paragon on my first playthrough, and I alwayse tried to save everyone (There are many rather not important decisions you can take). So in the end, I first picked controlling the reapers because I didn't want the geth and EDI destroyed. But now I realize that throughout the whole game, everybody is telling you that you have to make sacrifices to win against the reapers. Maybe that is Bioware trying to make you choose the right ending. So it's almost like indoctrination in real life. The whole time you see people get indoctrinated and not realising it, but you never even think you yourself could become like that. If that's the case, this would be the most intense experience you can have in a videogame.

[Milvushina]

k8ee wrote...

kent80082006 wrote...

Auresta wrote...

No one addressed this person's question and I'd like to see insight, in relation to low EMS and high EMS affecting the star-brat's dialogue and choices offered:

"Yes, it does, but I've also heard that if you saved the collector base in ME2 that the only default option you get with a low EMS on the citadel is Control, whereas if you don't save the base your only low EMS option is Destroy. Has anyone personally seen this proved?"

You're right someone need to examine that.

I haven't seen it personally but from what I heard it seems that the destroy option is always available along side with the control option, whereas the destroy option could appear alone. So the player is never forced to choose the control option. 

But we need confirmation

I have seen a video of this, where you can only pick destroy... I will see if I can find the video....

Also, be sure to check out this. It is a great way to make the retake ME3 cause seem less negative and gets back a the articles about us being whiny children.

I think I've seen a video where you can only pick destroy, the rumor is that in some cases you can only pick control.  Supposedly this happens if you don't blow up the collector base at the end of ME2 and then go to Earth in ME3 with very low resources.

[solidsnake78]

jackncoke28 wrote...

jackncoke28 wrote...

Another thing to point out is that if TIM was already there, why bother arguing with shepard? why not just kill shepard and anderson, and then just go up to the catalyst and make the choice himself? he had the opportunity, what was with this obsessive need to convince shepard? To me it strengthens the attempt to indoctrinate shepard argument

This one still bugs me. any thoughts? sorry if its already been discussed, but seems like alot of different discussions are getting burried with the insane pace this thing is going in, wanted make sure this point was made.

The old James Bond monolougue/ JUST KILL HIM ALREADY!

[Darjeer]

MDT1 wrote...

Darjeer wrote...


If he's what he says, he wouldn't let it be destroyed.
I think he would. Why wouldn't he allow them to destroy The Crucible? He's inside Citadel, not Crucible. I'm pretty sure that reapers would be able to destroy The Crucible without blowing Citadel up.

But he needs the Crucible because it added new possibilities, destroying it would remove them again.
Again, he agrees that something was be done, if this would be a lie, we are at point 3 which you already agreed upon

But why would he need these new possibilities? They have been doing this same thing for countless cycles and it always been effective. Shepard reaching him just offers new solutions, but if you refuse to choose any of those there's still the original plan. They just destroy The Crucible and continue with harvesting. I mean does he say that he's forced to find new solution, or just that new solutions have been presented?

[mmL]

With DA2, I think Bioware was really surprised with all the flak they got. But they've all been very cryptic and secretive until now regarding ME3, so something smells very fishy...

[Droghan]

 I personally think hes been fighting the indoctrination since at least the start of the game possibly earlier.  The dream sequences all have those dark ghosts and the undiscernable chatter in the background, plus it fits with whatelse everyone is stating.  Sadly I didnt even put 2 and 2 together and went with the Synthesis option so I will have to go through and get some more war assets and see if I can keep Shep alive at the end.

[jackncoke28]

solidsnake78 wrote...

jackncoke28 wrote...

jackncoke28 wrote...

Another thing to point out is that if TIM was already there, why bother arguing with shepard? why not just kill shepard and anderson, and then just go up to the catalyst and make the choice himself? he had the opportunity, what was with this obsessive need to convince shepard? To me it strengthens the attempt to indoctrinate shepard argument

This one still bugs me. any thoughts? sorry if its already been discussed, but seems like alot of different discussions are getting burried with the insane pace this thing is going in, wanted make sure this point was made.

The old James Bond monolougue/ JUST KILL HIM ALREADY!

I Was really hoping this wasnt the case. You get james bond villian monologue followed by an early 80's gameshow ending lol

[Fledgey]

mr.surv wrote...

http://imageshack.us.../834/4534n.jpg/

different endings

"OMGHub"
and then at the top you can see "cithub" I assume meaning citadel hub. So Omega hub? Oh god.

[Dap Brannigan]

Rafe34 wrote...

Okay. We need to figure this out, this is the only big thing I can see standing in the way of the Indoctrination Theory.

Why does the God-Kid only give Shep the option to destroy the Reapers if your EMS is low? There should always be at least two options.

This is the biggest thing I can see against the Indoctrination Theory.

You get the only Destroy option if your EMS is too low and you chose to destroy the Collector Base in ME2 (thus your Shepard is more inclined towards destroying and it fits what his decisions have been in the past).

I'm assuming that if your EMS is too low, you're doomed to fail anyway.  Harbinger isn't going to even bother indoctrinating you because you aren't worth it.  Maybe you just bleed out in the London ruins.

[phyreblade74]

Kioux wrote...

J4N3_M3 wrote...

as far as we know, no one has ever resisted direct indoctrination yet so no one really knows what this could cause to the Reapers. We also don't have any idea how the Crucible is supposed to work. What if the Catalyst isn't the child but actually Shepard resisting the indoctrination, hereby activating the Crucible to destroy the Reapers by releasing some form of virus or something among the Reapers?

just thinking out loud xD

Actually, when I went to sleep this morning ( thanks by the way, this thread kept me up way too long) I couldn't drift off, because my mind was wrapping around that.
What if Shepard was part of the catalyst... or the one thing activating it? After all, the Citadel was also a means to signal and communicate among the Reapers, yes? So, what if Shepard's decision - be it by the means of technology within him, the fact that he was "virtualized" before, or because - as shallow as it may sound - s/he is the chosen one (or simply different from anyone else: cipher, resurrected, killed sovereign, delayed the inevitable) is magnified by the Citadel/conduit and sent throughout the relay net? The godchild could be the Reaper's last attempt to influence Shepard, either by indoctrination or by gaining some small access to the proccesses of the Citadel.
I know there isn't much - if anything - to support this, but concering some of the plotholes, it is as good as any other ending, heh, well at least for me. So, the simple thing is that there is so much mentioning that nobody knows how it works - only that it could be able to destroy the Reapers - that there has to be more to it, and I certainly don't like the idea of the middle path!

Ah well, it's becoming a path of seeing signs and clawing my way away from the endings.

I really do believe Shepard is THE catalyst.  Or at least the decision Shepard makes in that moment is THE catalyst.  A catalyst, anyway, is nothing more than a person or thing that precipitates an event or change.  Even the RGC tells Shepard he/she is the first organic to reach such a point.  No other cycle has successfully constructed the crucible or garnered such an allied effort, either.  Shepard has been the consistent "catalyst" in marking differences, in creating changes, within this cycle.  It's not a far reach to assume Shepard is the overarching catalyst for the entire Crucible Effect, whatever it turns out to be.

Which inspired a different line of thought, for me.  If we're to accept the idea that each cycle has had similar themes -- a synthetic/organic conflict, a group/character seeking to control the reapers, etc. -- does that mean there have been other "Shepards", too?  I mean, what if each cycle has included one particular character that just might have been the catalyst, but failed.  If so, what happened?  Were they killed, destroyed, or indocrinated?  Why did they so consistently fail?  What went wrong in those instances?

[Peranor]

Sadly I think that people is just grasping for straws here. This is the endings we get. And BW is not going to change that. Any DLC coming for ME3 in the future will probably be aimed toward the multiplayer part. And if they are planning releasing any single player DLC you can bet that it wont be a "post ending" DLC. Probably just some alternate outfits, new weapons and stuff like that. Any new missions will just take place before the ending(s). Sad but true. Either way they are not getting my money again. Im done with this game. Not even going to bother with a second playthrough.

[BlackDragonBane]

Fledgey wrote...

mr.surv wrote...

http://imageshack.us.../834/4534n.jpg/

different endings

"OMGHub"
and then at the top you can see "cithub" I assume meaning citadel hub. So Omega hub? Oh god.

Are we sure those files aren't already what we see in the ending?

[RobT2012]

Capeo wrote...

AnthonyUK wrote...

Capeo wrote...

There is no hallucination. The Synergy ending opens last. It's easier to get control and destroy. The leaked script goes so far to say that the Synergy ending is the "perfect ending" that you're working towards. Not to mention the epilogue fires no matter what and it clearly shows that the Reapers have been defeated and the relays are gone. None of that would make sense if were an indoctrinated hallucination.

then how does shepard live on earth at the end of the Destroy "perfect ending?

Who knows?  That he lives in that ending is in the script.  Nothing about hallucinations or indoctrination is though.  The simple fact is BW got lazy and didn't want to do cinematics to show how he lived.  Hell, they reused the same assets for every ending as is.    

This point alone i think goes towards its not over. If these 3 options really were the end of the game, BioWare would have invested more in making the endings more visually distinct from each other. Using the same assests for each is only logical if its just a plot device to overcome. Otherwise with all 3 endings feeling rubbish as it is, why would anyone even bother to replay the game at all to see what the other endings reveal in cinematics.

Lack of varinace indiciates this is not the end, its not fitting with the rest of the variance shown in previous games.

[Bigdoser]

This is what someone said in another topic.


For those who missed it, let me bring up something that is probably buried under about a hundred pages.

If you have a low EMS, the starchild says in an angry tone "Why are you here"
If you have a high EMS, the starchild says in a less intimidating tone "Wake up"

My
explanation is if Shepherd could only gather a small fleet (low EMS)
then he obviously didn't live up to the reapers' expectation, they will
deem him unworthy of indoctrinating, which is why the starchild said
'why are you here' (assuming the whole choices thing is an attempt to
indoctrinate him). In this scenario, Shepherd is expandable to the
reapers.

However if shepherd could gather a strong fleet (high
EMS), then the reapers will deem Shepherd as a potential threat, they
see power in Shpeherd that they can't comprehend, it's only natural that
they would want to posses his powers to ensure successful harvest in
future cycles, which is why they presented him with the control and
sythesis option, since those two choices will allow the reapers to fully
indoctrinate him.

Makes sense?