@Metalldaze @Joystiq93 I wouldn't say desperately pieced together. A lot of the theories I'm reading are interesting and awesome
Modifié par AscendBaldur, 13 mars 2012 - 06:32 .
Was the ending a hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory
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byne
, mars 10 2012 12:46
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#8376
Posté 13 mars 2012 - 06:32
AscendBaldur
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Jessica Merizan
@Metalldaze @Joystiq93 I wouldn't say desperately pieced together. A lot of the theories I'm reading are interesting and awesome
@Metalldaze @Joystiq93 I wouldn't say desperately pieced together. A lot of the theories I'm reading are interesting and awesome
Retour en haut
#8377
Posté 13 mars 2012 - 06:33
lavosslayer
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Smiley556 wrote...
lavosslayer wrote...
lookingglassmind wrote...
Smiley556 wrote...
lookingglassmind wrote...
Hi, guys!
I had to sleep, so I've missed the part where the thread jumped from 260 pages to 332.
Any new, significant developments?
http://social.biowar...ex/9872108&lf=8
Ill let someone else update all the twitter stuff, dont really follow the twitter PR myself.
Awww, that really sucks.This was our theory, our thread. And Stanley Woo directs them to someone else's.
Although, it makes sense logistically, due to its length, but damn!
Seriously WTF?! that thing was only posted 8 hours ago...our is 4 days in the making!!
Seriously? thats your response? There are many people, among multiple threads vying for this explenation and all you can think of is 'this is our theory we want credit for it'. Its not a theory, its thruth, many threads have pointed it out. Including this one, and including the one linked by the mod.
Its not about the credit...its about all the work on the whole thing being done here...its a mega thread and yet some guy who very easily could have seen this one and made another thread on the same topic is now spliting the feedback into two threads...
My dissapointment in this comes with the fact that by having two threads on the topic we are now making it that much more difficult to consolidate ideas and get feedback...why not just have it all posted in the one...following one thread on this idea is hard enough. Two makes it damn near impossible...
Modifié par lavosslayer, 13 mars 2012 - 06:43 .
#8378
Posté 13 mars 2012 - 06:33
Bigdoser
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I personally think the mass effect Twitter is damage control personally I would not place much stock into what they say if it was tweets by bioware developers sure but I simply don't trust the me3 twitter.
#8379
Posté 13 mars 2012 - 06:33
Dessalines
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- 607 messages
That is the most interesting thing I have heard.Stealthy Cake wrote...
masseffect Is there going to be a statement to address your fans discontent with ME3's ending? We're all waiting for something..Please guys
Mass Effect@
@nozilna Stay tuned for all news via http://www.masseffect.com
Interesting..
#8380
Posté 13 mars 2012 - 06:33
Vyrii
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AscendBaldur wrote...
No, no DLC whatsoever has been confirmed. In fact no Bioware employess has used the letters DLC other than discussing the From Ashes situation. All the DLC stuff stems from player fears that we would have to pay for an ending, which is just that at this point, fear.
Ah.... okay.
So... how can we say that the Multiplayer DLC is to be used as references to verify the post on 4chan?
I'm just saying that all in all, I don't think we should knock it, but I don't think we should exactly accept it either.
Just with the evidence we have so far, Omega seem viable, and the Resuce Mission seem viable.
It has more merit than a post a while back that was a wife of a BioWare employee claiming that the endings are fake and the indoctrination theory is correct.
:/
#8381
Posté 13 mars 2012 - 06:34
ArkkAngel007
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Let's not turn this into the "So we don't get the ending we wanted?" thread. Let's try and keep it to the theory. I don't think anyone here is denying why people are upset; heck, many to most on here that support this theory can include themselves in those numbers.
#8382
Posté 13 mars 2012 - 06:34
noobcannon
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Flapperrr wrote...
https://twitter.com/...307366397902848
There are no happy endings, because nothing ends
WOW!!!
-The Last Unicorn
at least that's what i got from google.
#8383
Posté 13 mars 2012 - 06:35
Dap Brannigan
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Pictures of the multiplayer DLC were leaked. Included a Batarian soldier, and Geth infiltrator. I think the pictures were somewhere in this thread too.
#8384
Posté 13 mars 2012 - 06:35
Ravax
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This dude gets like 10 cookies from me, brilliant syntax and writing, expressing miscontempt through a very professional and well formed train of thought...
[/quote]
It doesnt matter really, its just this one PA guy defending ME3's ending (which he fails to see how badly it is actually) besides the same guy who posted that tweet also said:
@CoreyG: I am just posting an article folks, please be nice, I am not making a statement :}
Also, i like how one guy wrote a comment that is actually better than the PA article:
Unigolyn:
"DEUS EX MACHINA:
You're getting your literary devices mixed up. The Crucible is not deus ex machina, it is a MacGuffin. It's largely irrelevant except as a plot device. It is the exhaust port on the Death Star.
The narrative of ME3 is not about finding the Crucible, it is about building the greatest alliance ever seen in the galaxy (which the Crucible, as a plot device, allows to happen).
Why the Catalyst AI and his Monty Hall spiel of the Adjust Hue/Saturation is a deus ex machina is that it is the resolution to the narrative. The fact that he is also literally a "god from the machine" is irrelevant, albeit ironic. He is a deus ex machina in the literary sense, i.e. a handwaved contrivance that shows up out of the blue to quickly whisk away all the dangling story threads, and to abruptly end the story.
This is abysmal writing. This is abysmal game design; a Pick Your Own Adventure book where all choices take you to the same final chapter. It is counter to everything this game is. And what is this game?
In a recent Extra Credits, Portnow discussed core elements of a game. The Mass Effect series is really not a third person shooter. It is also really not a roll-the-dice-and-level-up CRPG. Mass Effect is, at its core, interactive fiction. All the memorable moments in these games take place in cutscenes that play out in myriad ways based on prior choices. You are role-playing in the most literal sense of crafting a character's personality based on your choices. The climax of Mass Effect 2 was not shooting the Human Reaper in the eye, the climax of Mass Effect 2 were the cutscenes that played and showed the results of your actions. Did you defy TIM? Did your crewmates survive? If your choices were poor enough, you could defeat the final boss, only to make a desperate leap towards the Normandy with no one to catch you.
The desperate leap in Mass Effect 3 is your dash towards the Beam. The only input that matters at all past this point is the encounter with TIM. That encounter is true to Mass Effect, and honors your previous choices, and provides closure for the secondary antagonist.
But for the main antagonist (Reapers), nothing you did matters. You are given three arbitrary choices to solve a problem that, depending on your actions, may be proven to be a false dilemma in the first place. If you saved both the Quarians and the Geth, witnessed Legion's messianic sacrifice, and humanized EDI - the Catalyst's claim of organic/synthetic conflict being unavoidable is patently false.
The Catalyst AI is completely incongruous with the narrative and the themes of the game. It shows up, provides a complete strawman of a conflict, and then offers three vapid, plot-hole ridden resolutions to this conflict, which abruptly end the narrative in a blinding flash of Space Magic (pick your color!).
CHOICES DON'T MATTER
Again, you're missing the point. No one is complaining about the preceding 30 hours of gameplay. Choices did seem to matter. Your treatment of the Rachni queen from two games ago ended up gaining you a seemingly valuable ally. Saving Wrex can gain a hopeful future for the Krogan. Your choices regarding Legion and the Migrant Fleet in ME2 have incredibly strong consequences in the seeming conclusion of the Geth/Quarian storyline. This is why we loved the game up to the ending.
And the ending completely demolished all of it, and made it completely illusory. Who gives a **** if you saved the Rachni? They just end up giving you Space Points and don't affect your ending at all. Who gives a **** if the Quarians or Geth or both survived? They're all dead anyway. Who cares if you cured the genophage and saved the one leader who could lead the Krogan into a less brutish, more hopeful future? He's either trapped on earth or dead, and the radioactive husk that is Tuchanka cannot sustain their race without supplies anyway.
And even more egregiously, the choices you made in the development of YOUR Shepard don't matter. She acts EXACTLY the same when facing the ultimate antagonist regardless of whether she's a Space Racist Renegade or Never Surrender Paragon or whatever your Shepard actually is, and what (insert pronoun) stands for.
You accept Space Hitler's premise without argument, and dejectedly pick one of the three Slightly Less Turning Everyone Into Paste final solutions he has to offer.
How does it matter in the slightest that I've done the frickin' impossible and united the Geth and the Quarians into a hopeful future, shown that we need not fear synthetic life, seen a nascent artificial sentience freely decide to set "Love and compassion" as their main motivation, and fought for the reactionary, bleak idea of "AI will always rebel" to be proven wrong? Space Hitler shows up, says "AI will always rebel, here are drastic fixes to this undeniable problem". And I go "yessuh"?
WHY IS EVERYTHING SO SAD
It's not sad. You are being incredibly myopic and dismissive of our experiences by reducing it to "y every1 has 2 diezorz?". The ending of the story is not actually sad, it's just anticlimactic, contrived, incongruous, and ridden with plot holes.
The part that's sad and what's tearing me apart is that this is not a case of people writing themselves into a corner. This is not a case of glorified hacks like Ronald D. Moore or Cuse/Lindelof making **** up as they go along, to find themselves at the end with no way to tie all the crap together in a cathartic way.
This is a beautifully written game, for the majority of the experience. Bioware has bona fide talent within their ranks. And the story, up to the very end, is redeemable in dozens of ways. Even the contrived, out-of-the-blue Star Child could be made into an interesting character by presenting it as a shackled AI who was given a specific, limited goal born of fear (stop AI from wiping out organic life forever), and it arrived at the grotesque solution of Reapers not because AI is evil, but the constraints never allow it to look past the false dilemma it's attempting to solve.
Most importantly, this is not a TV show or a movie. This narrative is, by design, told in a unique medium which is NOT doomed to give us a singular ending. Our Shepards can be varied, yes, but there is a finite amount of paradigms that lead you to the end, and they could all have a cathartic, poignant, and persistent ending. Let the Renegades ascend to rule the galaxy. Let the Paragons defeat primitive fear and xenophobia.
I do not care if the Relays have to go down, but don't do it in such a thoughtless way as to destroy everything meaningful I accomplished. I do not care if my Shepard dies. In fact, I expected her to go down in a blaze of glory, in the greatest battle that shall ever be fought, for the most meaningful (to her) victory a soldier could ever earn. She did not get this. I did not get this.
TENS OF THOUSANDS of people didn't get this. We are not asking for a Disney ending. We are not asking for a dance party with Ewoks. We are just asking for our Big Damn Heroes to go out on their own terms, win or lose"[/quote]
BAHAHAH!!! I was in the process of quoting this!!!!
HOLD THE LINE PEOPLE!
They don't know what they're talking about!
[/quote]
[/quote]
It doesnt matter really, its just this one PA guy defending ME3's ending (which he fails to see how badly it is actually) besides the same guy who posted that tweet also said:
@CoreyG: I am just posting an article folks, please be nice, I am not making a statement :}
Also, i like how one guy wrote a comment that is actually better than the PA article:
Unigolyn:
"DEUS EX MACHINA:
You're getting your literary devices mixed up. The Crucible is not deus ex machina, it is a MacGuffin. It's largely irrelevant except as a plot device. It is the exhaust port on the Death Star.
The narrative of ME3 is not about finding the Crucible, it is about building the greatest alliance ever seen in the galaxy (which the Crucible, as a plot device, allows to happen).
Why the Catalyst AI and his Monty Hall spiel of the Adjust Hue/Saturation is a deus ex machina is that it is the resolution to the narrative. The fact that he is also literally a "god from the machine" is irrelevant, albeit ironic. He is a deus ex machina in the literary sense, i.e. a handwaved contrivance that shows up out of the blue to quickly whisk away all the dangling story threads, and to abruptly end the story.
This is abysmal writing. This is abysmal game design; a Pick Your Own Adventure book where all choices take you to the same final chapter. It is counter to everything this game is. And what is this game?
In a recent Extra Credits, Portnow discussed core elements of a game. The Mass Effect series is really not a third person shooter. It is also really not a roll-the-dice-and-level-up CRPG. Mass Effect is, at its core, interactive fiction. All the memorable moments in these games take place in cutscenes that play out in myriad ways based on prior choices. You are role-playing in the most literal sense of crafting a character's personality based on your choices. The climax of Mass Effect 2 was not shooting the Human Reaper in the eye, the climax of Mass Effect 2 were the cutscenes that played and showed the results of your actions. Did you defy TIM? Did your crewmates survive? If your choices were poor enough, you could defeat the final boss, only to make a desperate leap towards the Normandy with no one to catch you.
The desperate leap in Mass Effect 3 is your dash towards the Beam. The only input that matters at all past this point is the encounter with TIM. That encounter is true to Mass Effect, and honors your previous choices, and provides closure for the secondary antagonist.
But for the main antagonist (Reapers), nothing you did matters. You are given three arbitrary choices to solve a problem that, depending on your actions, may be proven to be a false dilemma in the first place. If you saved both the Quarians and the Geth, witnessed Legion's messianic sacrifice, and humanized EDI - the Catalyst's claim of organic/synthetic conflict being unavoidable is patently false.
The Catalyst AI is completely incongruous with the narrative and the themes of the game. It shows up, provides a complete strawman of a conflict, and then offers three vapid, plot-hole ridden resolutions to this conflict, which abruptly end the narrative in a blinding flash of Space Magic (pick your color!).
CHOICES DON'T MATTER
Again, you're missing the point. No one is complaining about the preceding 30 hours of gameplay. Choices did seem to matter. Your treatment of the Rachni queen from two games ago ended up gaining you a seemingly valuable ally. Saving Wrex can gain a hopeful future for the Krogan. Your choices regarding Legion and the Migrant Fleet in ME2 have incredibly strong consequences in the seeming conclusion of the Geth/Quarian storyline. This is why we loved the game up to the ending.
And the ending completely demolished all of it, and made it completely illusory. Who gives a **** if you saved the Rachni? They just end up giving you Space Points and don't affect your ending at all. Who gives a **** if the Quarians or Geth or both survived? They're all dead anyway. Who cares if you cured the genophage and saved the one leader who could lead the Krogan into a less brutish, more hopeful future? He's either trapped on earth or dead, and the radioactive husk that is Tuchanka cannot sustain their race without supplies anyway.
And even more egregiously, the choices you made in the development of YOUR Shepard don't matter. She acts EXACTLY the same when facing the ultimate antagonist regardless of whether she's a Space Racist Renegade or Never Surrender Paragon or whatever your Shepard actually is, and what (insert pronoun) stands for.
You accept Space Hitler's premise without argument, and dejectedly pick one of the three Slightly Less Turning Everyone Into Paste final solutions he has to offer.
How does it matter in the slightest that I've done the frickin' impossible and united the Geth and the Quarians into a hopeful future, shown that we need not fear synthetic life, seen a nascent artificial sentience freely decide to set "Love and compassion" as their main motivation, and fought for the reactionary, bleak idea of "AI will always rebel" to be proven wrong? Space Hitler shows up, says "AI will always rebel, here are drastic fixes to this undeniable problem". And I go "yessuh"?
WHY IS EVERYTHING SO SAD
It's not sad. You are being incredibly myopic and dismissive of our experiences by reducing it to "y every1 has 2 diezorz?". The ending of the story is not actually sad, it's just anticlimactic, contrived, incongruous, and ridden with plot holes.
The part that's sad and what's tearing me apart is that this is not a case of people writing themselves into a corner. This is not a case of glorified hacks like Ronald D. Moore or Cuse/Lindelof making **** up as they go along, to find themselves at the end with no way to tie all the crap together in a cathartic way.
This is a beautifully written game, for the majority of the experience. Bioware has bona fide talent within their ranks. And the story, up to the very end, is redeemable in dozens of ways. Even the contrived, out-of-the-blue Star Child could be made into an interesting character by presenting it as a shackled AI who was given a specific, limited goal born of fear (stop AI from wiping out organic life forever), and it arrived at the grotesque solution of Reapers not because AI is evil, but the constraints never allow it to look past the false dilemma it's attempting to solve.
Most importantly, this is not a TV show or a movie. This narrative is, by design, told in a unique medium which is NOT doomed to give us a singular ending. Our Shepards can be varied, yes, but there is a finite amount of paradigms that lead you to the end, and they could all have a cathartic, poignant, and persistent ending. Let the Renegades ascend to rule the galaxy. Let the Paragons defeat primitive fear and xenophobia.
I do not care if the Relays have to go down, but don't do it in such a thoughtless way as to destroy everything meaningful I accomplished. I do not care if my Shepard dies. In fact, I expected her to go down in a blaze of glory, in the greatest battle that shall ever be fought, for the most meaningful (to her) victory a soldier could ever earn. She did not get this. I did not get this.
TENS OF THOUSANDS of people didn't get this. We are not asking for a Disney ending. We are not asking for a dance party with Ewoks. We are just asking for our Big Damn Heroes to go out on their own terms, win or lose"[/quote]
BAHAHAH!!! I was in the process of quoting this!!!!
HOLD THE LINE PEOPLE!
They don't know what they're talking about!
[/quote]
#8385
Posté 13 mars 2012 - 06:35
Wuyunk
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- 50 messages
Fledgey wrote...
All it confirms is that they have heard the theory and know of it, unfortunately. Don't get too worked up2_BR4ZIL_2 wrote...
Fledgey wrote...
https://twitter.com/...633929538637824 GODDAMMIT MASS EFFECT TWITTER. Stop teasing me T_T
Heh... thats almost as confirming our theories.
Lol that was me that tweeted that.
Was hoping for some *shifty eyes* or something, but alas no!
#8386
Posté 13 mars 2012 - 06:35
CptData
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- 8 665 messages
rorako wrote...
I'll be honest, though the hallucination theory makes the most sense...I'll be more pissed at Bioware than if these were just crappy endings.
Why, you may ask? Because we've played three games, attemping and expecting a climax to defeat the Reapers...only to find out Shepard, at the last second, got blasted and "hallucinated" winning. Oh, and if you get the best ending, you wake up in said rubble, and you didn't make it to the Citadel, or make it at all in destroying the Reapers.
Five years of playing this game, and you wake up in a pile of rubble, not even completing your objective? That's like...a game over screen for an end.
I expected an end to the game, not a teaser for Mass Effect 4. Yeah, if he hallucinated the end, then he woke up in a pile or rubble. This was the end of Shepard's story. mass Effect 4, or a new trilogy, takes place after Shepard fails, continuing the war against the Reapers. They aren't setting up for a new game, me thinks.
This could be setting up for a new trilogy. A trilogy I'll pass up. If this is the case...man I miss the days when games actually ended.
The only "worst case" for me is if the entire series get retconned by a "it's just a dream resolve".
Afaik we're talking about a tiny portion after Shepard got caught by Harby's beam - and that's a solution I like.
And by the way: Shepard's story -IS- about the Reapers. With the Reapers being gone, Shepard's story ends. Jump several decades or centuries in the future and Shepard is a legend, a hero that ended the Reapers. It's that easy. You even could tell the Relays survived and although most worlds got horribly damaged in the end they survived.
#8387
Posté 13 mars 2012 - 06:35
Stealthy Cake
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- 145 messages
masseffect Do you like the movie The 6th Sense or Shutter Island? I like those films. *wink wink*
Mass Effect@
@dancoys Ha! Think we know what you are getting at
For those that dosent know, those films are based on hallucinations, or some way of ''tricking'' the mind.
Mass Effect@
@dancoys Ha! Think we know what you are getting at
For those that dosent know, those films are based on hallucinations, or some way of ''tricking'' the mind.
#8388
Posté 13 mars 2012 - 06:36
Fledgey
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- 141 messages
I recorded the kid hiding behind the bars yesterday and didn't record the rest but I watched it happen. I'll do another recording of the full sequence when I get home if we're all interested.Icinix wrote...
Sheparded wrote...
i couldn't get a screenshot of it but at the Beginning where the kid is watching you from the balcony, he runs to the locked door and it opens for him. (this is the door you go through after the melee part) i thought this was a bit odd
Where does this happen?
I certainly didn't see this happening.
Kid flying toy fighter in circles. (Doesn't run to any door on scene)
Kid in vent. (Vanishes)
Kid getting on evacuation craft. (From nowhere to to the ship)
Am I missing a scene?
#8389
Posté 13 mars 2012 - 06:36
Ravax
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- 77 messages
Robert Maher @Nozilna
· Open
@masseffect Is there going to be a statement to address your fans discontent with ME3's ending? We're all waiting for something..Please guys
Mass Effect Mass Effect @masseffect
Close
@nozilna Stay tuned for all news via masseffect.com
· Open
@masseffect Is there going to be a statement to address your fans discontent with ME3's ending? We're all waiting for something..Please guys
Mass Effect Mass Effect @masseffect
Close
@nozilna Stay tuned for all news via masseffect.com
#8390
Posté 13 mars 2012 - 06:37
Fhear
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- 36 messages
Flapperrr wrote...
https://twitter.com/...307366397902848
There are no happy endings, because nothing ends
WOW!!!
This is interesting!
#8391
Posté 13 mars 2012 - 06:37
Galadh
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Stealthy Cake wrote...
masseffect Is there going to be a statement to address your fans discontent with ME3's ending? We're all waiting for something..Please guys
Mass Effect@
@nozilna Stay tuned for all news via http://www.masseffect.com
Interesting..
Now, this is it! You think we might be getting something this week?
#8392
Posté 13 mars 2012 - 06:38
mmL
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Somehow this thread has transformed into one about some random tweets of an unknown person about some game 
#8393
Posté 13 mars 2012 - 06:38
2_BR4ZIL_2
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Galadh wrote...
Stealthy Cake wrote...
masseffect Is there going to be a statement to address your fans discontent with ME3's ending? We're all waiting for something..Please guys
Mass Effect@
@nozilna Stay tuned for all news via http://www.masseffect.com
Interesting..
Now, this is it! You think we might be getting something this week?
Might be after ME3's release on japan on the 15th?
#8394
Posté 13 mars 2012 - 06:39
Wuyunk
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Stealthy Cake wrote...
masseffect Do you like the movie The 6th Sense or Shutter Island? I like those films. *wink wink*
Mass Effect@
@dancoys Ha! Think we know what you are getting at
For those that dosent know, those films are based on hallucinations, or some way of ''tricking'' the mind.
I'M FAMOUS!
I'd like to thank my mom, my dad...
#8395
Posté 13 mars 2012 - 06:40
BlackDragonBane
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- 285 messages
mmL wrote...
Somehow this thread has transformed into one about some random tweets of an unknown person about some game
We have gotten a little side-tracked, but i think it's the 1M1 theory creeping up because the 15th is coming up and if it turns out to be true, that aspect of the original 1M1 theory turns out to be true and Bioware is really just stringing us along to make a huge impact in the gaming industry.
#8396
Posté 13 mars 2012 - 06:40
lookingglassmind
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mmL wrote...
Somehow this thread has transformed into one about some random tweets of an unknown person about some game
The theory is pretty much finished, I think.
This is the only place this thread has to go now.
1. New people coming to the theory.
2. The rest of us pouring over media outlets....waiting....waiting....waiting.
This thread is going to turn into a 400+ page thread of pain.
#8397
Posté 13 mars 2012 - 06:41
Stealthy Cake
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I am well aware of the actual topic of the tread, its just that i freak out and want to show every piece of info i find into everyones face, so that i can keep my hopes up that that ''Ending'', or what the f**k bioware called, never happened.
But since ME3 goes global in 2 days, an official statement for future plans/content is problably closing in.
But since ME3 goes global in 2 days, an official statement for future plans/content is problably closing in.
#8398
Posté 13 mars 2012 - 06:41
lavosslayer
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mmL wrote...
Somehow this thread has transformed into one about some random tweets of an unknown person about some game
thats because we've recylced the same ideas and concepts for the last 4 days...not much new stuff to do as far as the theory goes...kinda just waiting for answers now...
#8399
Posté 13 mars 2012 - 06:41
mmL
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- Members
- 21 messages
BlackDragonBane wrote...
mmL wrote...
Somehow this thread has transformed into one about some random tweets of an unknown person about some game
We have gotten a little side-tracked, but i think it's the 1M1 theory creeping up because the 15th is coming up and if it turns out to be true, that aspect of the original 1M1 theory turns out to be true and Bioware is really just stringing us along to make a huge impact in the gaming industry.
I missed the 1M1 theory. What's it about?
#8400
Posté 13 mars 2012 - 06:41
Noob451
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BlackDragonBane wrote...
mmL wrote...
Somehow this thread has transformed into one about some random tweets of an unknown person about some game
We have gotten a little side-tracked, but i think it's the 1M1 theory creeping up because the 15th is coming up and if it turns out to be true, that aspect of the original 1M1 theory turns out to be true and Bioware is really just stringing us along to make a huge impact in the gaming industry.
where was the 1M1 theory stated again?
