57139 réponses à ce sujet

[Rammiecakes]

I love this thread... I love it very much.

If I wasn't at work I'd put in my own two cents.

I'll do that later.

[JFedora]

Vlta wrote...

If this theory or the indoctrination proves true I doubt it would be because it was Bioware's plan all along. It would probably be more likely that they just used this idea to appease the masses and the three half baked endings really were their endings.

(If the theory really is their idea then after I get my real ending I'm done with Bioware, getting trolled is bad enough, being forced to purchase the real ending for a game is ridiculous)

That assumes we'd have to pay for it. I like to think Bioware wouldn't do that, but I'm also on a thread dedicated to over-analyzing the last 10 minutes of a video game in a desperate attempt to get some closure for fictional characters, so it's possible you could describe me as an unrealistic optimist. 

[Ramus]

Its more of story inconsistencies.

[Maike91]

Leafs43 wrote...

Deitylink wrote...

Again. The reversed 1M1 could just be a warning/sign. Everything is reversed. Destroy is seen as renegade and made to believe thats it's the wrong option.

1M1 even being there in the first place makes no sense.

No human or organic has ever been there.  So how do human based figures appear where no human has never been?


Either its a dream, space magic, or serious oversight by the developers.

As I said before, the devs could have just put a normal metal texture there. They didn't. Why?

[IhateEA-Mask]

I got another theory:

Shepard's indoctrination is actually caused by his implants. Grayson was implanted with reaper tech, why not Shepard? Chakwas says that his/her implants are finally starting to adjust to body, so that might be why he wasn't starting to get indoctrinated before.

[Noob451]

ate lunch and missed like 6 pages....

[jackncoke28]

Has the magic unlimited amo gun you get, after harbinger blast, been explained?

[Kveki]

 My screenshots have dissapeared but if you go on the backside of the Citadel (place where you are at the end with the child) you can see more 1M1 things....two of them....That is interesting,and the fact that when you survive in the end it makes no sense since all syntetics should die.

[Falar]

Something I've been thinking about in relation to rebuilding Shepard and Reaper tech:

The conversation with Miranda. She painstakingly goes over what you'd already talked to her about in ME2: the control chip. She keeps talking about it, and feels extremely guilty even though she didn't do anything. I found that conversation really bizarre, as the guilt seemed to be a whole lot more than just feeling like she was acting like her father.

Is it possible she knows something was put in Shepard, but because it also affected her, she can't actually say something? She keeps trying to, which is why she brings it up, but then when it comes to it she can't actually say it.

[Noob451]

jackncoke28 wrote...

Has the magic unlimited amo gun you get, after harbinger blast, been explained?

discussed and thought about, yes.

explained? no.

some think the gun = shepards willpower.

[Milvushina]

I think the theory is true and it's purposefully hinted at because if they really wanted to make a lazy ending, they would have just made a happy ending. All they needed was one more boss fight, a space wedding and more battle scenes showing off your gathered armies, and everyone would love it. Also, it would have been less mysterious, less work, and less convoluted to write.

They went to a lot of trouble to leave you wondering if you were in your right mind and if you made the right decision. That's also what makes me feel sure it's 100% done, because it was so deliberate. A twist, but the twist is only 50% revealed. It's frustrating.

I think now I will replay the end to get the little bit of assets I needed for the Shep lives ending and then import that save to ME3 and do a second playthrough. It may not be any different, but I'm going to try it anyway!

[BlackDragonBane]

Noob451 wrote...

ate lunch and missed like 6 pages....

A page is added like every  minutes.

[Little Lummo]

Lurchibald wrote...

so wait, how did the reapers move the citadel to Earth again? The citadel doesn't have any propulsion of its own, I don't know, I just can't see them being able to use the mass relay to move it (Though I'm not an expert on what the mass relays can actually do lol)

I thought that aswell, and what was the point of us even improving the Citadel Defense Force?! Whole lotta good that done lol, why couldn't they even seal the citadel when the Reapers approached it? Unless it was GC done something(in which case why didn't he take control in ME1). 

I also thought in ME1 that Vigil gave Shep some file to override the Citadels security systems to open the arms again, why wasn't that needed this time? 

[Lurchibald]

luukee wrote...

Lurchibald wrote...

so wait, how did the reapers move the citadel to Earth again? The citadel doesn't have any propulsion of its own, I don't know, I just can't see them being able to use the mass relay to move it (Though I'm not an expert on what the mass relays can actually do lol)

The Citadel is a mass relay I believe although it only goes to dark space. Like you I don't know how it got around but I can assume the relays might be able to move themselves around in a way that it can move ships?

Yeah but the citadel would be many times bigger than the standard Mass Relay (Just look at how the citadel made sovereign look like an ant) I can understand a relay moving many ships at once but moving something so large at once? I just don't know...

[Kayjin23]

Vlta wrote...

If this theory or the indoctrination proves true I doubt it would be because it was Bioware's plan all along. It would probably be more likely that they just used this idea to appease the masses and the three half baked endings really were their endings.

(If the theory really is their idea then after I get my real ending I'm done with Bioware, getting trolled is bad enough, being forced to purchase the real ending for a game is ridiculous)

These are my thoughts exactly. Why everyone is painting Bioware as heroes if this is actually true is beyond me. You're all really happy that they could've planned to troll us all along? I get the feeling everyone is just desperate enough to look for any escape to the terrible endings we got and so flocked to this.

[Bigdoser]

Credits to Mr Gogeta34 for the post here is what he put down in another topic.

More fuel for the Hallucination/Indoctrination Theory fire:

Collector's tried to take Shepard's body under Harbinger in ME2. "Preserve Shepard's body if possible" is a line by Harbinger that proves that the Reapers wanted Shepard for a long time... and perhaps even anticipated that Shepard would be their final element necessary for victory.
"We are the beginning, you are the end."
"Why do you resists us, Shepard?"
"I am the Harbinger of your perfection."
"I am the Harbinger of your ascendance."
"You cannot escape your destiny, Shepard."

Naturally though, that didn't work out...
"You have failed... we will find another way..." - Harbinger (ME2)

In Arrival, Harbinger makes it clear (under no uncertain terms) that he wants Shepard's mind. Object Rho did render Shepard unconscious and apparently, prior to that, Harbinger was trying to indoctrinate Shepard... but his will had been too strong.

"Struggle if you wish... your mind will be mine" - Harbinger (Arrival)

Shepard could've very well been "infected" by Rho's final shockwave, and when he came to... indoctrination began seeping in (with the ME3 Kid being its very first real manifestation). However this too, ultimately failed in its intention.

"Shepard, you have become an annoyance. You fight against inevitability... dust struggling against cosmic winds." -Harbinger (Arrival


"Know this as you die in vain... your time will come. Your species will fall." -Harbinger
(kinda sounds like some of ME3's endings)


So Harbinger tries something more creative to Indoctrinate Shepard... one that he may have learned from The Illusive Man... appealing to his compassionate side via child and his own sense of morality (Paragon/Renegade).

Also note that the same Renegade choice (Destroy ending) can play out in 2 unique ways... Whereas one is the "best" ending (with Shepard surviving)... the other Renegade choice kills everyone and obliterates everything. Such unique endings from the same choice only furthers the likelyhood of illusion.

[Elanor]

Noob451 wrote...

jackncoke28 wrote...

Has the magic unlimited amo gun you get, after harbinger blast, been explained?

discussed and thought about, yes.

explained? no.

some think the gun = shepards willpower.

Another proof that it didn't really happened?

[njfluffy19]

815Sox wrote...

My Shepard's (a paragon) ultimate goal was to bring peace to the galaxy, green and blue do that. Green appears to be the only long term solution.

The fact that Shepard's essence formed the basis for the next step in evolution for both Synthetic and Organic life seems like a pretty good deal to me.

It looked that way. It is also what Saren wanted, and we all know he was indoctrinated. Are you certain it will bring peace to the galaxy? How can you be? What proof do you have besides the words of a ghostly image that calls itself the "Catalyst." I was tricked into believeing that too, but how do you really know that's what is going to happen? Just as you need proof for this theory, you need proof for the kid's proclaimations.

[MatthewGold]

Jared ****** ‏ @OkinawanCowboy
I think the strong reactions to the @masseffect ending is indicative of how invested players were with the great characters @bioware

Mass Effect ‏ @masseffect
@okinawancowboy We do recognize that~

[Davies993]

Davies993 wrote...

crimsontotem wrote...

For all ye new comers



3:55-56 when kid says "Choose" listen to the third echo...

Harbinger?

I personally can't hear that, but do you notice sheps eyes when he is getting assimilated? They turn into a purple version of Saren/TIM's eyes. Same thing happens for control, but not for destroy.

(5:36 in that video)

0:53/0:54 in this video;

[BlackDragonBane]

Bigdoser wrote...

Credits to Mr Gogeta34 for the post here is what he put down in another topic.

More fuel for the Hallucination/Indoctrination Theory fire:

Collector's tried to take Shepard's body under Harbinger in ME2. "Preserve Shepard's body if possible" is a line by Harbinger that proves that the Reapers wanted Shepard for a long time... and perhaps even anticipated that Shepard would be their final element necessary for victory.
"We are the beginning, you are the end."
"Why do you resists us, Shepard?"
"I am the Harbinger of your perfection."
"I am the Harbinger of your ascendance."
"You cannot escape your destiny, Shepard."

Naturally though, that didn't work out...
"You have failed... we will find another way..." - Harbinger (ME2)

In Arrival, Harbinger makes it clear (under no uncertain terms) that he wants Shepard's mind. Object Rho did render Shepard unconscious and apparently, prior to that, Harbinger was trying to indoctrinate Shepard... but his will had been too strong.

"Struggle if you wish... your mind will be mine" - Harbinger (Arrival)

Shepard could've very well been "infected" by Rho's final shockwave, and when he came to... indoctrination began seeping in (with the ME3 Kid being its very first real manifestation). However this too, ultimately failed in its intention.

"Shepard, you have become an annoyance. You fight against inevitability... dust struggling against cosmic winds." -Harbinger (Arrival


"Know this as you die in vain... your time will come. Your species will fall." -Harbinger
(kinda sounds like some of ME3's endings)


So Harbinger tries something more creative to Indoctrinate Shepard... one that he may have learned from The Illusive Man... appealing to his compassionate side via child and his own sense of morality (Paragon/Renegade).

Also note that the same Renegade choice (Destroy ending) can play out in 2 unique ways... Whereas one is the "best" ending (with Shepard surviving)... the other Renegade choice kills everyone and obliterates everything. Such unique endings from the same choice only furthers the likelyhood of illusion.

I love you.

[Jurgwug]

 I think that it is a dream because of how eerily similar parts of the end game are, and dreams normally take familiar things and reshape them. first, it is a downhill run to get to the citadel (like the conduit on Illos) then when shep first enters the citadel it reminds me of the collector ship and base (especially with all of the bodies), then the 'chasm' shep enters looks very similar to the shadow broker base, and the confrontation with TIM on the control platform is a lot like the confrontation with saren in ME1.

[creiGn]

Reptilian Rob wrote...

Out of everything in this massive thread, the most telling evidence is still the reversed choice colors and the rubble Shep wakes up in.

Other than that, everything else is just wishful thinking.

Except the part that where Normandy makes a jump WITH crew members who were rushing to the beam alongside us. There's no way Joker and the rest of the crew would just run and leave Shepard behind. Not even mentioning how they got a tip about the destruction of Citadel. I don't remember Shepard warning anybody.

[Deitylink]

Leafs43 wrote...

Deitylink wrote...

Again. The reversed 1M1 could just be a warning/sign. Everything is reversed. Destroy is seen as renegade and made to believe thats it's the wrong option.

1M1 even being there in the first place makes no sense.

No human or organic has ever been there.  So how do human based figures appear where no human has never been?


Either its a dream, space magic, or serious oversight by the developers.

Yeah exactly. It has no reason to be there. And reversed? It's a stretch but it could be Shepherds subconscious saying that something is off...

[VironZ]

The kid suggests that if you kill all synthetics, that you are also synthetic, so therefore you will die if you chose that path, so he's obviously upto something