57139 réponses à ce sujet

[ClydeDroid]

Okay, so here's what I'm wondering...
If all of this is true (which I'm almost 100% convinced of), and Bioware is planning some sort of ending patch or DLC, what will happen to the people who chose control, or synthesis? What will happen to those who chose destroy with low EMS? Will they simply be unable to access the full ending?

[savionen]

The infinite ammo pistol out of nowhere doesn't need to be explained, it's a game mechanic. You can't use biotic powers during the slow-mo parts. If you had no gun on your character at all (some people don't even use guns in some builds for Engineer, Vanguard and Adept), you'd be forced to just die in that situation.

[Descedent]

Elanor1 wrote...

Noob451 wrote...

jackncoke28 wrote...

Has the magic unlimited amo gun you get, after harbinger blast, been explained?

discussed and thought about, yes.

explained? no.

some think the gun = shepards willpower.

Another proof that it didn't really happened?

no ui for the gun, so I just kept reloading it cause I was thinking small clips lol. Did not know it was unlimited.

[anarch1888]

Well, from all that I gathered from the course of the previous 2 games:
Each Reaper is a unique being. Just remember the "human" Reaper that the Collectors were building and Sovereign saying "We are <...> each a nation" at the krogan facility in ME1. So, basically, each Reaper represents a former species that was harvested during previous "harvests".

Considering the unique attributes of each of the species it's plausible to infer that each Reaper has:

1) varying limits to their power. Compare Sovereign and Harbinger, for example. The difference is quite obvious (Harbinger being able to control thousands just on a whim). So, theoretically, a Reaper made from asari should kick the living **** out of a salarian Reaper when it comes to mind control.

2) varying nature of that power. For example, the distance at which victims can be controlled, the nature of the bonding between the slave and the master (one-way or both), etc.

Personally, I think that Harbinger could be a Prothean Reaper since mind-linking for Protheans comes just as natural as breathing as explained by your Prothean squadmate. That would actually open up new venues for many things, this theory included.

Just some food for thought (hopefully useful).
Sorry, if someone else already mentioned this - scanning through 340+ pages is a bit too much for me.

[JulienJaden]

I've already posted this before, but I think it is not completely unreasonable.

Now, as we know, the endings available are dependent on the amount of EMS points, and only with the two highest tiers of EMS points, Shepard survives. The theory discussed in this threat is based on the premise that the entire conclusion of the game is a hallucination.

What if it it's only a hallucination when you actually did everything right? Everyone who knows a little bit about the idea of parallel universes can follow me: What if all decisions up to that point determine what happens? If you did some things, or everything, wrong, this is the best you get. You are Shepard. You will not let civilized life fall. You swore to find a way to defeat the Reapers, you are the one who has to determine the fate of the galaxy and you do, even though it costs you more than you can bear.

But if you it all right, you wake up. In this universe, Harbinger ceased the opportunity and tried to indoctrinate you, tried to take control of you, but you fend him off and come back. In this universe, the Crucible will have a different effect, something else entirely may happen.

So, in short: Maybe the endings are only a hallucination if Shepard actually did everything right, if you earned another ending.
Like in Max Payne 2, where, if you play through on the hardest difficulty, Mona survives with the same wound that killed her on every other difficulty.

[G0thicRhino]

Bigdoser wrote...

Credits to Mr Gogeta34 for the post here is what he put down in another topic.

More fuel for the Hallucination/Indoctrination Theory fire:

Collector's tried to take Shepard's body under Harbinger in ME2. "Preserve Shepard's body if possible" is a line by Harbinger that proves that the Reapers wanted Shepard for a long time... and perhaps even anticipated that Shepard would be their final element necessary for victory.
"We are the beginning, you are the end."
"Why do you resists us, Shepard?"
"I am the Harbinger of your perfection."
"I am the Harbinger of your ascendance."
"You cannot escape your destiny, Shepard."

Naturally though, that didn't work out...
"You have failed... we will find another way..." - Harbinger (ME2)

In Arrival, Harbinger makes it clear (under no uncertain terms) that he wants Shepard's mind. Object Rho did render Shepard unconscious and apparently, prior to that, Harbinger was trying to indoctrinate Shepard... but his will had been too strong.

"Struggle if you wish... your mind will be mine" - Harbinger (Arrival)

Shepard could've very well been "infected" by Rho's final shockwave, and when he came to... indoctrination began seeping in (with the ME3 Kid being its very first real manifestation). However this too, ultimately failed in its intention.

"Shepard, you have become an annoyance. You fight against inevitability... dust struggling against cosmic winds." -Harbinger (Arrival


"Know this as you die in vain... your time will come. Your species will fall." -Harbinger
(kinda sounds like some of ME3's endings)


So Harbinger tries something more creative to Indoctrinate Shepard... one that he may have learned from The Illusive Man... appealing to his compassionate side via child and his own sense of morality (Paragon/Renegade).

Also note that the same Renegade choice (Destroy ending) can play out in 2 unique ways... Whereas one is the "best" ending (with Shepard surviving)... the other Renegade choice kills everyone and obliterates everything. Such unique endings from the same choice only furthers the likelyhood of illusion.

This is some really good investigative work. 

[Lurchibald]

Little Lummo wrote...

Lurchibald wrote...

so wait, how did the reapers move the citadel to Earth again? The citadel doesn't have any propulsion of its own, I don't know, I just can't see them being able to use the mass relay to move it (Though I'm not an expert on what the mass relays can actually do lol)

I thought that aswell, and what was the point of us even improving the Citadel Defense Force?! Whole lotta good that done lol, why couldn't they even seal the citadel when the Reapers approached it? Unless it was GC done something(in which case why didn't he take control in ME1). 

I also thought in ME1 that Vigil gave Shep some file to override the Citadels security systems to open the arms again, why wasn't that needed this time? 

Good point, I had forgetten about the CDF

[Elvwood]

Taone wrote...

I just thought of something.. Dunno if someone's posted it here yet, waaaaayy too many pages to look through.

Alright, so I was thinking on the green ending choice: Synthesis. This seems to be the choice that the reapers and God-Child-Thing ultimately want. They wait for a species to reach a certain level of evolution, then harvest it into a synthetic/organic mixture. This process seems to take a long period of time, judging by the conversation with the Prothean that states that they were at war with the reapers for hundreds of years.

So how is it that in a matter of seconds they would be able to convert all organic life in the universe into a synth/organic hybrid? Simply because of the Crucible? It seems to me that the Crucible is an ingenious amount of tech, but something that the reapers could have easily created on their own considering their tech prowess and the millions(?) of years that the cycles have been going on for.

I know i'm grasping at straws here, it's just something that had come to my mind. It gives me hope along with every other piece of evidence in this thread that the ending is not all that it appears to be. Besides, it would be the best way (Albeit slightly sleazy) to add DLC to a game that's supposed to end on the third game. Most people wouldn't buy DLC for a game that already ended. It made sense for ME2 to have DLC after the story finished because Arrival and partly LotSB linked into ME3. What would DLC after ME3 link into if the reapers are already finished?

Again, hoping and grasping at straws. I started replaying ME2 today but i'm taking my time.

I tried thet ending also but I don't know if anyone else caught this or not but there is a flaw in that ending as well
in my scene Joker and EDI emerged and it showed Joker was changed but not EDI
There did not seem to be any organic traces on her. So where was the conversion ?
Was it just for Organics?

[TSgt_ShaneV]

I'm trying to catch up here but it's impossible, this thread moves way to fast. Everytime I wake up it 100 more pagges LOL ....

BadlyBrowned wrote...

RE: The Player indoctrination Theory of the OP. Sort of rambling on, but here we go:

Indoctrination is suppose to dominate one's free will. Both Saren and TIM were shown to have very powerful wills, enough to resist the indoctrination process for a time, but ultimately succumb. 
Shepard is different though, Shepard actually has NO free will. Shepard is *our* avatar, his will is our will. Bioware could write up a whole bunch of different stuff to do to Shepard to convey Reapers attempts at indoctrinating him, but Reaper indoctrination simply does not work for Shepard because ultimately Shepard will is bound to the whims of the player.

Thus, with the "crucible" being a test, indoctrination being the domination of one's free will, and with the players being the source of Shepard's "free" will, it makes sense to me that the Reaper God Child's sudden appearence serves as a test of wills, the Reapers versus the Player. Shepard appears to be on the cusp of entering the Citadel and defeating the Reapers when he is hit with a laser. Could it be that this attempt at indoctrinating Shepard/The Player serves as the Reapers last gasp at avoiding their own extinction? At this point, the only real thing that could prevent Shepard from not destroying the Reapers is, well, you. So, like the Player Indoctrination Theory states, these last few minutes of the game perhaps serve as a way for the player to expierence just what it is like to come under the influence of indoctrination. That Shepard only "wakes up" in the destroy ending seems very telling right there, to me. 

Yeah, it's a huge stretch, but what the hell, it makes more sense than taking the endings at face value, imo.

This is such a great explaination as to why this would be attemped by Bioware on the players. It should be added to the OP (if it hasn't already. sorry)

[njfluffy19]

Davies993 wrote...

Davies993 wrote...

crimsontotem wrote...

For all ye new comers



3:55-56 when kid says "Choose" listen to the third echo...

Harbinger?

I personally can't hear that, but do you notice sheps eyes when he is getting assimilated? They turn into a purple version of Saren/TIM's eyes. Same thing happens for control, but not for destroy.

(5:36 in that video)

0:53/0:54 in this video;

You can hear all three voices. Weeeeird. My Shep's eyes turned blue like Saren's/TIM's.

[Noob451]

Elanor1 wrote...

Noob451 wrote...

jackncoke28 wrote...

Has the magic unlimited amo gun you get, after harbinger blast, been explained?

discussed and thought about, yes.

explained? no.

some think the gun = shepards willpower.

Another proof that it didn't really happened?

also if the gun is shepards willpower, you'll notice destroying the reapers is the only one that involves shooting it, showing that shepard is breaking free from indoctrination?  wheras the other 2 choices you are simply submitting.

[Ice Cold J]

squee365 wrote...

has anyone figured out where this concept art fits into the game?
Maybe its part of the true ending?

Rannoch?

[Rammiecakes]

I would like to say a few things.. actually, about the voice actors and their responses to the game.

Martin Sheen said "I'm not done yet" This could be relative to the near ending/choices of ME3 where you decide the fate of the galaxy or it could be something else!

All other VAs have commented on how this game is phenomenal and will throw its players for a spin.
I think they themselves would have been in a tizzy if it truly ended the way it did. I know for a fact Jennifer Hale would have been pissed.

[kent80082006]

The simple fact that a character as important as Harbinger only made a cameo appearance makes me believe there's definitely more to the ending

[Noob451]

Ice Cold J wrote...

squee365 wrote...

has anyone figured out where this concept art fits into the game?
Maybe its part of the true ending?

Rannoch?

that looks nothing like rannoch

[Prince Keldar]

simfamSP wrote...

mmL wrote...

HallucinationEnd wrote...

Hmm foud this :

http://s3.amazonaws....res=1331651551

Holy ****.

This means the sequence with the normandy fleeing from the blast and landing on a tropical vacation island might have been real. Which would not contradict our indoctrination/hallucination theory, as the real ending could still happen inbetween!

Anyone could have made that **** up. unless one of these leaks comes true I'd take every word with caution.

I don't think it is real.  The supposed rescue dlc says that Shepard is in a jungle waiting for the alliance to arrive, well he is in london when he gasps so...................................I don't think so.  

[SandTrout]

Nah, it's probably not Rannoch. The Rannoch Reaper was a destroyer class, that one apparently a sovereign class. Additionally, the Rannoch Reaper was destroyed in a desert, while that image is in wetland of some sort.

[njfluffy19]

Rammiecakes wrote...

I would like to say a few things.. actually, about the voice actors and their responses to the game.

Martin Sheen said "I'm not done yet" This could be relative to the near ending/choices of ME3 where you decide the fate of the galaxy or it could be something else!

All other VAs have commented on how this game is phenomenal and will throw its players for a spin.
I think they themselves would have been in a tizzy if it truly ended the way it did. I know for a fact Jennifer Hale would have been pissed.

Brandon Keener said something along the lines of Garrus' story isn't done yet a year or so ago. That could always just be wishful thinking for Garrus.

[Elendstourist]

kent80082006 wrote...

The simple fact that a character as important as Harbinger only made a cameo appearance makes me believe there's definitely more to the ending

Good point!

[luukee]

anarch1888 wrote...

Well, from all that I gathered from the course of the previous 2 games:
Each Reaper is a unique being. Just remember the "human" Reaper that the Collectors were building and Sovereign saying "We are <...> each a nation" at the krogan facility in ME1. So, basically, each Reaper represents a former species that was harvested during previous "harvests".

Considering the unique attributes of each of the species it's plausible to infer that each Reaper has:

1) varying limits to their power. Compare Sovereign and Harbinger, for example. The difference is quite obvious (Harbinger being able to control thousands just on a whim). So, theoretically, a Reaper made from asari should kick the living **** out of a salarian Reaper when it comes to mind control.

2) varying nature of that power. For example, the distance at which victims can be controlled, the nature of the bonding between the slave and the master (one-way or both), etc.

Personally, I think that Harbinger could be a Prothean Reaper since mind-linking for Protheans comes just as natural as breathing as explained by your Prothean squadmate. That would actually open up new venues for many things, this theory included.

Just some food for thought (hopefully useful).
Sorry, if someone else already mentioned this - scanning through 340+ pages is a bit too much for me.

I've been thinking this for a while, especially more since we know what an actual prothean looks like.





If you compare these two pictures of Harbinger and a Prothean, you'll notice both have four eyes, both have that ridge like thing on the "head", and as far as I know Harbinger is also the only one to look like this.

I also think you're right about them wanting Shepard for the reaper base because s/he's the best example of humanity and their resitance agaisnt the Reapers, so why not turn that determination, power and attitude into a reaper?

Modifié par luukee, 13 mars 2012 - 07:58 .

[Leafs43]

VironZ wrote...

The kid suggests that if you kill all synthetics, that you are also synthetic, so therefore you will die if you chose that path, so he's obviously upto something

I hadn't even thought about this....

Destroy is the only ending Shepherd survives when the kid clearly implies that if Shepherd chooses this option Shepherd will also die.

This is a big enough idea for its own thread.

[Noob451]

luukee wrote...

anarch1888 wrote...

Well, from all that I gathered from the course of the previous 2 games:
Each Reaper is a unique being. Just remember the "human" Reaper that the Collectors were building and Sovereign saying "We are <...> each a nation" at the krogan facility in ME1. So, basically, each Reaper represents a former species that was harvested during previous "harvests".

Considering the unique attributes of each of the species it's plausible to infer that each Reaper has:

1) varying limits to their power. Compare Sovereign and Harbinger, for example. The difference is quite obvious (Harbinger being able to control thousands just on a whim). So, theoretically, a Reaper made from asari should kick the living **** out of a salarian Reaper when it comes to mind control.

2) varying nature of that power. For example, the distance at which victims can be controlled, the nature of the bonding between the slave and the master (one-way or both), etc.

Personally, I think that Harbinger could be a Prothean Reaper since mind-linking for Protheans comes just as natural as breathing as explained by your Prothean squadmate. That would actually open up new venues for many things, this theory included.

Just some food for thought (hopefully useful).
Sorry, if someone else already mentioned this - scanning through 340+ pages is a bit too much for me.

I've been thinking this for a while, especially more since we know what an actual prothean looks like.

http://images3.wikia...er_278x449.jpg 

http://images1.wikia...ean_Profile.png

If you compare these two pictures of Harbinger and a Prothean, you'll notice both have four eyes, both have that ridge like thing on the "head", and as far as I know Harbinger is also the only one to look like this.

I also think you're right about them wanting Shepard for the reaper base because s/he's the best example of humanity and their resitance agaisnt the Reapers, so why not turn that determination, power and attitude into a reaper?

the protheans were also an empire of different races, according to javik.

[savionen]

Noob451 wrote...

Elanor1 wrote...

Noob451 wrote...

jackncoke28 wrote...

Has the magic unlimited amo gun you get, after harbinger blast, been explained?

discussed and thought about, yes.

explained? no.

some think the gun = shepards willpower.

Another proof that it didn't really happened?

also if the gun is shepards willpower, you'll notice destroying the reapers is the only one that involves shooting it, showing that shepard is breaking free from indoctrination?  wheras the other 2 choices you are simply submitting.

You have infinite ammo at the beginning of the game as well. You don't actually "run out of ammo" until a certain spot, regardless of how much ammo you actually use.

There's many other games that have done this as well. It's a designer choice, so that the player doesn't break a game mechanic.

[Prince Keldar]

G0thicRhino wrote...

Bigdoser wrote...

Credits to Mr Gogeta34 for the post here is what he put down in another topic.

More fuel for the Hallucination/Indoctrination Theory fire:

Collector's tried to take Shepard's body under Harbinger in ME2. "Preserve Shepard's body if possible" is a line by Harbinger that proves that the Reapers wanted Shepard for a long time... and perhaps even anticipated that Shepard would be their final element necessary for victory.
"We are the beginning, you are the end."
"Why do you resists us, Shepard?"
"I am the Harbinger of your perfection."
"I am the Harbinger of your ascendance."
"You cannot escape your destiny, Shepard."

Naturally though, that didn't work out...
"You have failed... we will find another way..." - Harbinger (ME2)

In Arrival, Harbinger makes it clear (under no uncertain terms) that he wants Shepard's mind. Object Rho did render Shepard unconscious and apparently, prior to that, Harbinger was trying to indoctrinate Shepard... but his will had been too strong.

"Struggle if you wish... your mind will be mine" - Harbinger (Arrival)

Shepard could've very well been "infected" by Rho's final shockwave, and when he came to... indoctrination began seeping in (with the ME3 Kid being its very first real manifestation). However this too, ultimately failed in its intention.

"Shepard, you have become an annoyance. You fight against inevitability... dust struggling against cosmic winds." -Harbinger (Arrival


"Know this as you die in vain... your time will come. Your species will fall." -Harbinger
(kinda sounds like some of ME3's endings)


So Harbinger tries something more creative to Indoctrinate Shepard... one that he may have learned from The Illusive Man... appealing to his compassionate side via child and his own sense of morality (Paragon/Renegade).

Also note that the same Renegade choice (Destroy ending) can play out in 2 unique ways... Whereas one is the "best" ending (with Shepard surviving)... the other Renegade choice kills everyone and obliterates everything. Such unique endings from the same choice only furthers the likelyhood of illusion.

This is some really good investigative work. 

It is.  I guess I have always assumed Harbinger was talking about Humanity or organic life as a whole, but maybe he was talking directly to and about Shepard.  Interesting.