57139 réponses à ce sujet

[LenabotSE]

Another questionable thing, though easily dismissed by "the writers just wanted things to be darker":

Why is Shepard having guilt-induced dreams right NOW? Especially if they're supposedly fueled by the death of Kaidan or Ashley at the start? A paragon Shepard expresses guilt over the decision in ME2, but never acts traumatized. It's a did-what-I-had-to-do situation. The invasion of Earth is an obviously huge factor in having a breakdown, but Shepard's dreams never concern the Earth itself -- only the whispers of dead squadmates and the suspicious child.

[BlackDragonBane]

Gothic Alice wrote...

I dunno if this was brought up at all, but I just recently watched the worst most possible ending. In that ending there was only one choice, destroy. If it was an indoctrination attempt, why is there no control or destroy option?

Because in the indoctrionation, the Reapers know you can't win because you didn't take the time to build your forces, so they win regardless. They give you the illusion of possibly winning but in reality, the Reapers are going to obliterate the resistence.

[Rip504]

Sl4sh3r wrote...

Rip504 wrote...

Your happy ending is seeing the N7 armor and pretending...

Hence the 4k-5k needed to see the scene.
If it was default in all destroy Shepards maybe,but it is not,So no hallucination

How about reading the OP.

You're point has been taken into account and crushed into smithereens.

Yea,I bet.

[RobT2012]

JeffZero wrote...

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

JeffZero wrote...

Yep, still not buying it, folks. Wouldn't mind being wrong though. Time will tell.

I probably just missed your post Jeff, and I've always respected your opinion, but why don't you think the theory is valid?

Resources. It all comes down to resources for me. The amount of money it will cost to deliver a more satisfactory indoctrination-proving rendition is much higher than the cost of making DLCs and given the smaller sales of ME2's DLC versus the main game I just don't see them aiming for this.

Then there's the VI that fails to detect Shepard's indoctrination. And the more-believable 4chan 'minor Bioware employee' claim of a postgame DLC focusing instead on the Alliance rescuing Normandy survivors as this would be a hell of a lot cheaper to make.

sorry thats rubbish. The DLC for ME2 was really very good, i enjoyed it loads and it was well put together, must have been cost effective too, as BioWare released several updates.

[holyshock18]

Gothic Alice wrote...

I dunno if this was brought up at all, but I just recently watched the worst most possible ending. In that ending there was only one choice, destroy. If it was an indoctrination attempt, why is there no control or destroy option?

Beacuse you allrdy lost the fight. You are still Indoctrinated. But the Reapers dont care about you anymore. The boy even say angrily WHY ARE YOU HERE. Since he dosent care about you anymore. You was not so dangerous as they expected. So they let you break free of Indoctrination (Thereby the Destroy Option) Since you loose the war anyway. So wheter or not you break free dont mean anything to them anymore

But if you have gotten a huge army they are affraid of you. And therefor they want control over you.

[wryan2011]

seitani wrote...

De1ta G wrote...

wryan2011 wrote...

 With this forum moving so fast it's hard to tell if this has been said before, but I noticed that when the Illusive Man makes you shoot Anderson on the citadel(the first time, not the shot that kills him instantely) Shepherd shoots Anderson in the lower right abdomen.  Then just after Anderson dies(if you get the 'I'm proud of you' talk) Shepherd is holding his right abdomen which is bleeding badly.(no evidence as to why that specific spot)  

What I'm getting at is the symbolism of Shepherd shooting 'himself', or part of himself is pretty strong.  This ties in with the theory that Anderson is Shepherd's human side and the Ilussive Man represents his cybernetic side.  

Now that I think about it, I think your right. Shepard wasn't bleeding there before he shot Anderson. Nice observation.

shepard was shot  just before he entered in the beam

I may be wrong, but I could sware he was shot in the shoulder and not the abdomen before entering the beam.  I need to see if I can find this on youtube. 

[cyric085]

Gothic Alice wrote...

I dunno if this was brought up at all, but I just recently watched the worst most possible ending. In that ending there was only one choice, destroy. If it was an indoctrination attempt, why is there no control or destroy option?

simple it does not matter you will lose anyway (since your forces are too weak for the reapers.
with a low warscore you won't see the scene where shep survived.

[Evil_medved]

Bioware has some angle i bet my boots on it. Cryptic twitter messages, awkward silence, that "There is no happy ending because its not an end" quoting and stuff, dont ya think that will be way too cruel for them to be if all this turns out to be a lie?

[Leafs43]

Destroy option is the only option that Shepherd survives but its also the only option the star kids says you'll die.


Star kid is lying. It is a hallucination. If you choose the other 2 options, your indoctrination is complete. They both hint at you becoming part of the machine.  If you choose the destroy option, you actually break free of the reapers indoctrination attempt.


It's the only way it makes sense that Shepherd survives the destroy option.

Modifié par Leafs43, 13 mars 2012 - 08:42 .

[Gamingtrek12025]

Not sure if you guys are still quoting the random twitter posts, if not my bad. But i just came across this.

"@piscesulmo Paragon and Renegade were too polarizing in the previous game! The developers aimed to give players more leeway."

[Zyrious]

hex23 wrote...

Rip504 wrote...

Your happy ending is seeing the N7 armor and pretending...

Hence the 4k-5k needed to see the scene.
If it was default in all destroy Shepards maybe,but it is not,So no hallucination

If you don't have higher EMS you die regardless. The only way to see Shep alive at the end is:

1. Choose "Destroy", which we're suggesting is resisting Reaper indoctrination.

2. Have high enough EMS to actually survive the war on Earth, which is where your body still is.

This also explains why "Destroy" is the only option if you have low EMS. With no chance of survival Reapers have no reason to indoctrinate you.

If the reapers have no reason to indoctrinate you why would you have the dream sequence at all, it doesn't make any sense whatsoever. Infact if you're laying their twitching and convulsing why isnt a maruader dragging you off to be made reaper chow? Or bleeding to death, for that matter. Or how about the fact that we HAVE THE SCRIPT and this isnt in it at all?

[JeffZero]

hex23 wrote...

Rip504 wrote...

Your happy ending is seeing the N7 armor and pretending...

Hence the 4k-5k needed to see the scene.
If it was default in all destroy Shepards maybe,but it is not,So no hallucination

If you don't have higher EMS you die regardless. The only way to see Shep alive at the end is:

1. Choose "Destroy", which we're suggesting is resisting Reaper indoctrination.

2. Have high enough EMS to actually survive the war on Earth, which is where your body still is.

This also explains why "Destroy" is the only option if you have low EMS. With no chance of survival Reapers have no reason to indoctrinate you.

The Reapers still kinda die though, don't they? Isn't that grounds for concern?

[kent80082006]

Gothic Alice wrote...

I dunno if this was brought up at all, but I just recently watched the worst most possible ending. In that ending there was only one choice, destroy. If it was an indoctrination attempt, why is there no control or destroy option?

This has been discussed for so many times now I've lost count... you can refer to previous posts for more information, but my explaination would be with a low EMS, the reapers no longer deem Shepherd as a threat and there's no need to indoctrinate him by using the other two options (control and synergy).

[H3xTech]

Rip504 wrote...

Your happy ending is seeing the N7 armor and pretending...

Hence the 4k-5k needed to see the scene.
If it was default in all destroy Shepards maybe,but it is not,So no hallucination

Well that could be explained with 4-5k assets there is enough ground forces to prevent reapers to swarm over Shepards body while she is unconscious?

[ArkkAngel007]

JeffZero wrote...

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

JeffZero wrote...

Yep, still not buying it, folks. Wouldn't mind being wrong though. Time will tell.

I probably just missed your post Jeff, and I've always respected your opinion, but why don't you think the theory is valid?

Resources. It all comes down to resources for me. The amount of money it will cost to deliver a more satisfactory indoctrination-proving rendition is much higher than the cost of making DLCs and given the smaller sales of ME2's DLC versus the main game I just don't see them aiming for this.

Then there's the VI that fails to detect Shepard's indoctrination. And the more-believable 4chan 'minor Bioware employee' claim of a postgame DLC focusing instead on the Alliance rescuing Normandy survivors as this would be a hell of a lot cheaper to make.

Point 1 I agree with.  If this all turns out to be true, I don't see it being released for free, or even the same amount as From Ashes.  

Point 2...I'm sorry, but anonymous user on 4chan, which lives to troll the internet or steal ideas from the internet these days, is far less likely.  And if it was the Normandy survivors being rescued, that I could see.  But Shepard?  Even space magic has to throw in the towel there. 

The VI issue...we really don't know enough about the actual indoctrination process personally and directly from a Reaper.  We've seen what happened to the Cerberus recovery team, to Grayson, and to Saren and TIM (even before the ending events it was clear what was happening).  However, we haven't seen Shepard's situation when it comes to indoctrination.  I refuse to believe he is fully immune to the effects.  We also don't know how the VI determines an indoctrinated individual.

It's obvious that Shepard is on Earth...if the shelving and rebar are an indication...so the question is how he got there?  The best answer is that he never left Earth, and there is meaning behind obtaining that moment.  The lazy answer is stating that it's only bad writing.  But then again, the best answer may not be the right one.  We just have to wait and see.

[panamakira]

Milvushina wrote...

panamakira wrote...

Did the "perfect ending" had your teammates dead in front of you when you wake up from the blast?

I has 4700+ EMS and 71% readiness....and I saw the bodies of Kaidan and Garrus before me. Anyone know?

Did you get the "perfect ending"?

I thought you had to have a very low EMS to see the dead squadmates, and a very high EMS to see the perfect ending.

Was Kaidan your LI?  If so was he still on the jungle planet even though you saw his body?

I had assumed I had enough for a perfect ending. Yes, Kaidan was LI and to be honest I couldn't recognize the body of Garrus anywhere but assumed that the body in front of Kaidan was Garrus but I couldn't really tell. Kaidan was dead in front of me when I woke up, a pool of blood under him. This was the only really "negative" aspect I got in the ending, all the other scenes with the soldiers cheering, didn't see anyone else die. Shep lived in my Destroy ending.

And yeah Kaidan comes out like he just had a shower and a shave out of the Normandy in the jungle, followed by the missing Garrus. That's just weird. I could understand your squadmates "maybe" appearing on the Normandy if you didn't see their bodies but Kaidan was pretty dead when I woke up from the beam blast.

[Gothic Alice]

Noob451 wrote...

Gothic Alice wrote...

I dunno if this was brought up at all, but I just recently watched the worst most possible ending. In that ending there was only one choice, destroy. If it was an indoctrination attempt, why is there no control or destroy option?

already been talked about, supposedly, if your EMS is so low taht that is your only option, what's the point in trying to convince shepard to do anything?  he's going to fail anyway.

higher EMS= more choices, because harbinger is getting desperate.


something like that anyway

Ahh, that makes sense. Was wondering about that.

[Ona Demonie]

Rob_K1 wrote...

camcon2100 wrote...

Not sure if you guys heard this but you hear a reaper shout at 4:34 here
here
Also when Shepard is looking for the kid at 0:56 seconds 
here
Hmm interesting they sound very familiar and if anything prove that when Shep wakes up there are still reapers around!

Bingo! I think? 

That doesn't sound like a reaper shout. 

[Tygur]

Dwailing wrote...

 Ok, I have not managed to finish the game yet, but I have watched all the endings, and I think, or at least hope, that that makes me qualified to comment.

I was originally thinking about Anderson, and I wondered if he represented part of Shepard's mind in this context.  Think, for a moment, about what Anderson means to Shepard.  He was there through all three games, he was the man who originally brought Shepard abord the Normandy, and, perhaps most importantly, he was the only one who believed Shepard from the beginning.  His faith in Shepard never wavered.  So, maybe Anderson sort of plays the Horatio to Shepard's Hamlet, the only thing that keeps him anchored to sanitiy.  When Anderson dies in the "hallucination" (I only put it in quotes because Bioware has not said yea or nea to the idea) Shepard then goes to the Crucible.  At that point, it is likely that Shepard is at his weakest moment mentally.  Therefore, the Reapers now have their chance to try and take over.  Now, the destroy ending is the ending indicated by Anderson's image, right?  So, maybe that is Shepard's mind's way of saying, "This is what you should do".  Also, as pointed out by others, this is the ending indicated by the "kid" as having the worst consequences; Geth destroyed, EDI dead, Shepard possibly dead as well.  It would seem likely that the "kid" is trying to get Shepard not to take this option because the part of Shep's mind represented by Anderson, possibly the only person who has never faltered in his belief in Shepard and who Shepard has never faltered in his belief in, is telling him this is the right move.  Sorry if this got a little long winded, but I figured it was worth pointing out.  Any thoughts fellow BSN members? 

No, that seems right. The first time I got to the end and was presented with the choices, I literally said to myself "I'm going to pick destroy, because thats what Anderson wanted, and he was always there and always right and good.

[Winged Squiger]

Has there been anything new on twitter or anything?

[EXMugamy]

I agree 100% with the theory of Indoctrination. Nothing makes sense after the attack of the Harbinger. For me I believe I will see the DLC "The rescue," and "Romance" as saying the war ends and Shepard retiring and being with someone for the rest of his days. It is possible, and I still have hope.

[Leafs43]

Tygur wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

 Ok, I have not managed to finish the game yet, but I have watched all the endings, and I think, or at least hope, that that makes me qualified to comment.

I was originally thinking about Anderson, and I wondered if he represented part of Shepard's mind in this context.  Think, for a moment, about what Anderson means to Shepard.  He was there through all three games, he was the man who originally brought Shepard abord the Normandy, and, perhaps most importantly, he was the only one who believed Shepard from the beginning.  His faith in Shepard never wavered.  So, maybe Anderson sort of plays the Horatio to Shepard's Hamlet, the only thing that keeps him anchored to sanitiy.  When Anderson dies in the "hallucination" (I only put it in quotes because Bioware has not said yea or nea to the idea) Shepard then goes to the Crucible.  At that point, it is likely that Shepard is at his weakest moment mentally.  Therefore, the Reapers now have their chance to try and take over.  Now, the destroy ending is the ending indicated by Anderson's image, right?  So, maybe that is Shepard's mind's way of saying, "This is what you should do".  Also, as pointed out by others, this is the ending indicated by the "kid" as having the worst consequences; Geth destroyed, EDI dead, Shepard possibly dead as well.  It would seem likely that the "kid" is trying to get Shepard not to take this option because the part of Shep's mind represented by Anderson, possibly the only person who has never faltered in his belief in Shepard and who Shepard has never faltered in his belief in, is telling him this is the right move.  Sorry if this got a little long winded, but I figured it was worth pointing out.  Any thoughts fellow BSN members? 

No, that seems right. The first time I got to the end and was presented with the choices, I literally said to myself "I'm going to pick destroy, because thats what Anderson wanted, and he was always there and always right and good.

How does Shepherd survive the destroy option with all his synthetic implants?

[Rip504]

hex23 wrote...

Rip504 wrote...

Your happy ending is seeing the N7 armor and pretending...

Hence the 4k-5k needed to see the scene.
If it was default in all destroy Shepards maybe,but it is not,So no hallucination

If you don't have higher EMS you die regardless. The only way to see Shep alive at the end is:

1. Choose "Destroy", which we're suggesting is resisting Reaper indoctrination.

2. Have high enough EMS to actually survive the war on Earth, which is where your body still is.

This also explains why "Destroy" is the only option if you have low EMS. With no chance of survival Reapers have no reason to indoctrinate you.

Your Shepard,and that is enough reason. Get Shepard on your side and the rest of the galaxy will lose hope,There is always a reason to indoctrinate Shepard.LOL

Your happy ending is seeing the N7 armor... So the Reapers being destroyed is an indoctrination upon Shepard so the reapers can show him what he wants to see? Then Shepard is indoctrinated. either they die or Shepard is indoctrinated either way...

[wryan2011]

wryan2011 wrote...

seitani wrote...

De1ta G wrote...

wryan2011 wrote...

 With this forum moving so fast it's hard to tell if this has been said before, but I noticed that when the Illusive Man makes you shoot Anderson on the citadel(the first time, not the shot that kills him instantely) Shepherd shoots Anderson in the lower right abdomen.  Then just after Anderson dies(if you get the 'I'm proud of you' talk) Shepherd is holding his right abdomen which is bleeding badly.(no evidence as to why that specific spot)  

What I'm getting at is the symbolism of Shepherd shooting 'himself', or part of himself is pretty strong.  This ties in with the theory that Anderson is Shepherd's human side and the Ilussive Man represents his cybernetic side.  

Now that I think about it, I think your right. Shepard wasn't bleeding there before he shot Anderson. Nice observation.

shepard was shot  just before he entered in the beam

I may be wrong, but I could sware he was shot in the shoulder and not the abdomen before entering the beam.  I need to see if I can find this on youtube. 

yep, he gets shot in the shoulder not the abdomen.    check at about 1:50

[ericjdev]

When I see "was the ending a hallucination' my brain processes that as 'Was the ending a lazy, senseless piece of crap, or was it a lazy, senseless piece of crap dream sequence. Either way, it still stinks.